#1 Posted by Army2442 (1799 posts) - - Show Bio

(Pre new 52 beast boy)

vs

(black lightning)

Location: abandoned mine 20 feet away

30 minutes of strategy only

Full knowledge of each other

Morals on and in character

KO elimination

Pre new 52 versions

First to 10 votes wins voting only starts after both debaters have made their case

#2 Posted by Strafe Prower (11887 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll let TheGraySon make the first move :)

#3 Posted by Strafe Prower (11887 posts) - - Show Bio

I just realized this was in the Artists section

Would you mind moving this to the battle forum?

#4 Posted by Mercy_ (92873 posts) - - Show Bio

:)

Moderator
#5 Posted by TheGraySon (457 posts) - - Show Bio

BB isnt much for prep but knowing BL is peak human physically, a lot of his standard morphs could knock him out. I havent read much of BL to be honest. Defense wise ive seen him put up a small shield to destroy a small disk thrown at him, but he seemed to have trouble with doing even that.

@Strafe Prower: Do you have any feat scans you want to put up?

#6 Edited by Strafe Prower (11887 posts) - - Show Bio

@Mercy_: thanks :)

@TheGraySon: Well don't mind if I do!

The last 4 are examples of his shields. The writer of the JLA series, which is where he struggled to make the small shield, is bad writting easily.

Examples of his fire power.

These are examples of his dodging/reaction timing.

He also has the ability to fly, turn parts of his body into electricty, ride on lightning, absorb lightning/electricity, etc.

As for your argument. He won't be getting KO'd by one of Beast Boy's combos. He is too durable and fast for that.

#7 Edited by TheGraySon (457 posts) - - Show Bio

@Strafe Prower: Well i didnt see any shields.. But hes not durable enough to survive a tail whip from a lot of dinos, and his speed/reactions arent above peak human. Most impressive thing i saw in these scans was the explosion vs geoforce, and BB has already saved himself and his entire team by turning into a phoenix. Is there a feat where he explains how many volts he can go up to?

Edit: well his MA i mean, not volts. and NVM found the shields

#8 Posted by Strafe Prower (11887 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheGraySon:

Here is an explanation of his power level.

This is him tanking a full speeding Car. He doesn't have a scratch on him afterwards.

As for the reaction timing, he does have the reaction timing to dodge/block Beast Boy's attacks. If he can block bullets from point blank range, he can block a tail being swung at him.

#9 Posted by TheGraySon (457 posts) - - Show Bio

He could probably take one T-rex, but BB can split himself and create an army of T-rex or even mythical creatures like dragons or phoenix.

#10 Posted by Strafe Prower (11887 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheGraySon: Any scans of this?

#11 Posted by crackerjack82 (2607 posts) - - Show Bio

I will cast my offical vote when you guys are done, as of now I am leading for Black lighting, I am looking forward to seeing scans of beast boy doing that

#12 Edited by TheGraySon (457 posts) - - Show Bio

Sorry the positioning is weird... couldnt figure it out lol. He also has his King Ape form which is a larger, stronger, and more durable form of his regular ape form.

#13 Posted by Strafe Prower (11887 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheGraySon: It's ok. The image part of the Parchment is a little messed up. It's not easy to get the scans on a post in a neat way.

As for the scans, they are nice, but I see nothing in those scans that suggest he could create an army of anything. 3 of something maybe, but that is something Jeff could handle. While he can morph into some exotic animals, they are nothing Black Lightning hasn't handled before with success.

Between his shields and his omni-directional blasts, I don't see Garr winning this one. Black Lightning has more than enough firepower to put down Garr in a few shots.

#14 Posted by TheGraySon (457 posts) - - Show Bio

@Strafe Prower: Okay well lets say he can only make 3 of himself. One phoenix, one t-rex, and one king ape. The phoenix has the defense covered while the other two are on the offensive. Most impressive thing BL did was an explosion, and BB has already defended himself and his team against something of that magnitude in his phoenix form.

#15 Posted by Strafe Prower (11887 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheGraySon: What's to say he can create 3 animals of that level at the same time? I'm not trying to downplay Beast Boy, but I just haven't seen such a feat from him.

Also, what did the Pheniox do to show defensive powers? I haven't read that issue, so info would helpful.

As for Black Lightning's capabilities, he has hurt and defeated Kryptonian level opponents on several occasions. It would take one shot to take down any one of the animals. Not to mention that he can send electricity through their body with a touch. I don't see Garr shaking off such a attack.

Also, since Black Lightning has flight and impressive agility, I don't see him being tagged very often in this situation.

#16 Posted by TheGraySon (457 posts) - - Show Bio

@Strafe Prower:

\

This is the image right before the phoenix scan i posted. He protects his entire team from Holocaust blowing up the building.

Whats to say he cant? He showed the ability to split as an ox, and thats not exactly a trait oxen have. Its implied he could do it as any of his animal forms and i still havent seen anything to show that BL could take out a regenerating phoenix.

BB can transform into a mix of multiple animals at once, so with all their attributes combined its tough to say BL could take him out in one hit in this form.

If anything BB just has to wait him out while in phoenix form before switching to another form to attack.

What kryptonian level opponents has he beaten?

#17 Posted by Strafe Prower (11887 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheGraySon: Nice scan. While Holocaust's attack was powerful, Black Lightning has much more firepower. Not to mention that Black Lightning's attacks travel faster and he has better reaction timing than Holocaust.

I've just never seen him do it. If you have scans of this, I would love to see them. Beast Boy has to come out of the Pheniox form eventually, which is a perfect opportunity.

You have to remember, Jeff has 30 minutes of prep here and has full knowledge on Beast boy, according to the OP. Therefore, he would come into the fight knowing what he has to do.

The robot he destroyed in the scans, was bashing Kryptonians around. Black Lightning destroys it in 1 blast.

#18 Posted by TheGraySon (457 posts) - - Show Bio

@Strafe Prower: Those scans are kind of out of context. BL was channeling a nuclear tank to destroy the robot. He couldnt beat it with his power alone. Also the Imperiex's kind of varied in power..

@Strafe Prower said:

While Holocaust's attack was powerful, Black Lightning has much more firepower. Not to mention that Black Lightning's attacks travel faster and he has better reaction timing than Holocaust.

How so? Holocaust has taken out Wonder girl, bombshell, Aquagirl, and Static with a flare.. Holocaust is a bullet timer, and i havent seen feats of BL to show hes above a bullet timer.

Maybe his attacks travel faster.. but i dont see a way to prove that, or that hes much more powerful.

Yeah youve never seen him do it but its implied with his skill set. You havent seen BL block a charge or tail whip from a full grown T-rex but you assume he could do it because hes tanked a speeding car or bullets. Not exactly the same thing. If he could split while he was an Ox he could probably do it in his other forms as well.

BB has the same amount of prep and full knowledge... He wouldnt risk going out of phoenix form unless BL has tired himself out or left an opening.

#19 Posted by crackerjack82 (2607 posts) - - Show Bio

Wow i must say i am enjoying this

#20 Posted by Strafe Prower (11887 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheGraySon: That was back in the 90's though, and Black Lightning has grown in power and hurt Geo-Force with his attacks.

Static and Black Lightning beat Holocaust as well. Black Lightning has tanked his attacks for long periods of time, while the same wasn't true for Holocaust. This point is moot though and we can move on.

Electricity moves faster than fire, but this point is also moot.

Just because it is implied doesn't mean he can do it or has trained to do so. You have to base it off feats, not theory. If Black Lightning can tank attacks from Geo-Force (Who is in Wonder Woman's strength class), he can tank the tail of a T-Rex, not that he would be tagged.

Which won't happen as Black Lightning isn't one for pure offense, but strategic fighting. For example, his fight with with Cabre.

Also, the scan where he splits into 3 ox isn't Beast Boy, that is an older Beast Boy who came back in time and is fighting Cyborg. This is further proven at the bottom of the scan with the children comment from older Superboy and Wondergirl.

#21 Posted by sync1 (2980 posts) - - Show Bio

Also, the scan where he splits into 3 ox isn't Beast Boy, that is an older Beast Boy who came back in time and is fighting Cyborg. This is further proven at the bottom of the scan with the children comment from older Superboy and Wondergirl.

#22 Posted by TheGraySon (457 posts) - - Show Bio

@Strafe Prower said:

@TheGraySon: That was back in the 90's though, and Black Lightning has grown in power and hurt Geo-Force with his attacks.

Static and Black Lightning beat Holocaust as well. Black Lightning has tanked his attacks for long periods of time, while the same wasn't true for Holocaust. This point is moot though and we can move on.

Electricity moves faster than fire, but this point is also moot.

Just because it is implied doesn't mean he can do it or has trained to do so. You have to base it off feats, not theory. If Black Lightning can tank attacks from Geo-Force (Who is in Wonder Woman's strength class), he can tank the tail of a T-Rex, not that he would be tagged.

Which won't happen as Black Lightning isn't one for pure offense, but strategic fighting. For example, his fight with with Cabre.

Also, the scan where he splits into 3 ox isn't Beast Boy, that is an older Beast Boy who came back in time and is fighting Cyborg. This is further proven at the bottom of the scan with the children comment from older Superboy and Wondergirl.

One fight with Geoforce doesnt make BL highly durable, if anything its inconsistent. BL has been knocked out by much less.

I still havent seen anything that would take out BB's phoenix form.

#23 Posted by Strafe Prower (11887 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheGraySon: Like what? Name something that has knocked out Black Lightning? I actually haven't seen him being knocked out by much.

So BB's strategy is to stay in Defense the entire time? Doesn't seem likely.

#24 Edited by TheGraySon (457 posts) - - Show Bio

@sync1 said:

Also, the scan where he splits into 3 ox isn't Beast Boy, that is an older Beast Boy who came back in time and is fighting Cyborg. This is further proven at the bottom of the scan with the children comment from older Superboy and Wondergirl.

Lol im fully aware of the context of that scan. The titants travel to an alternate timeline where they have a darker sense of justice. Future BB says he has the power to do it and is too ashamed to embrace it, but since present BB hasnt actually done it i dropped the whole splitting thing.

And it would be more likely for him to turn into an animal that can be fried? I didnt say hed stay in phoenix form the entire battle, i said he would wait for openings.

#25 Posted by Strafe Prower (11887 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheGraySon: I can't open those scans.

Either way, I think we have said all we can. we are just running in circles now.

I'm good to go to voting if you are.

#26 Edited by TheGraySon (457 posts) - - Show Bio

@Strafe Prower: Sure

Here i fixed em.

#27 Posted by Strafe Prower (11887 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheGraySon: Isn't that from the most recent JLA run? The writer of that run didn't understand anything about Black Lightning, or so it appeared.

#28 Posted by TheGraySon (457 posts) - - Show Bio

@Strafe Prower: Well you used a scan from that run to show BL's power...

#29 Posted by Strafe Prower (11887 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheGraySon: *looks back*

I clicked the wrong scan. I didn't mean to click the scan with Cheetah, as it shows basically nothing.

#30 Posted by TheGraySon (457 posts) - - Show Bio

@Strafe Prower: Not the first time you used that scan to debate BL, but okay. Also those two scans were done by two different writers, so im not sure how you can just write it off. Anyways, lets start the voting.

#31 Posted by THUNDERBOLT30 (10660 posts) - - Show Bio

Good debate. I was initially thinking BL would win this but I do see an opportunity for BB. Learning a lot about both either way.

#32 Edited by TheGraySon (457 posts) - - Show Bio

@THUNDERBOLT30: To be honest i learned a lot of BL stuff from this. Didnt think he was capable of this much.

#33 Posted by RIKR2 (11299 posts) - - Show Bio

like debate a lit more but both of u were awesome but is my vote count ill vote for BB

#34 Posted by crackerjack82 (2607 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm still gonna go for black lighting, no change in my vote

#35 Posted by Army2442 (1799 posts) - - Show Bio

2-0 black lightning anyone can vote.