Michael Demiurgos (DC) vs. The Living Tribunal (Marvel)

this is based on his comic,like i said i don't find the scans now

read and then argue with me,when he merged with ROE it makes him strictly infinite like the ROE.

he's killed by aztar in a difficult fight

he's strictly inherent omni-potent,presence and scient

He can pour out just as much energy, and he can shape it, channel it, focus it. Michael cannot.

Siding with LT. Precision trumps raw power here.

@mattersuit: Michael can, i have told you many times. do not just read wikis about their powers, read the comic

It could go either way (most likely a stalemate), but I'm siding with Michael because I prefer him.

@baron_von_santa:

Does LT have Lucifer's mind and willpower? No. Lucifer is a complex but prideful being. He is also not in this fight. But what LT has is a mind and willpower so incomprehensible that Eternity, the only creature LT deigns to label a peer can not begin to relate to them. Eternity is the sentient universe entire and the Living Tribunal is that far beyond him.

Does the Living Tribunal have Michael's power? Yes.

In what way is "supreme being creates nigh omnipotent second to help shepherd creation" NOT the same origin story?

I do not put Shazam on Molecule Man's level. Molecule Man has substantially more power than the wizard. But at least they're in the same ballpark. Both are humans who acquired power to the point they become respected members of universal scale bodies such as the Quintessence and the Cosmic Brigade. The point is that neither of them is in the same league as Michael or LT.

I didn't say you said that. My statement was trying to point out that comparing LT to Spectre isn't helpful to resolving this battle. Any power evidenced in scans of the Spectre in action pales in comparison to what the Living Tribunal throws around. All they have in common is the judging. Everywhere else the two characters are so far removed that suggesting otherwise just confuses the issue.

And again I would ask that you please just stop telling people that they are wrong. It's somewhat ill-mannered and hardly makes up "a hard day of debating."

@gaztacular: still i ask where did i compare LT to spectre? and molecule man is not in the same league as LT, he is higher.

help shepherd creation? spectre is the one who does that, not Michael.

if you do not want to be told you are wrong then do not make mistakes

@jmarshmallow Michael and Lucifer, could beat LT, alone. Michael and Lucifer, together, they would beat judge of Marvel.

@dorukesin said:

Nah don't worry i don't need the scans, just tell me the issue number so i can read it.......this shouldn't be so hard now should it?

..................Are you serious? you say that he was killed by the spectre yet you call him omnipotent?? nice logic there, not to mention Nabu questions why it took so long for the spectre to destroy him when he could have done so easily:

Prior to that Nabu was getting owned by Mordru in JSA #80

Gallery

.......ouch.....omnipotent?

Like i said......it's common knowledge, that Nabu isn't omnipotent only someone who has no clue about Nabu would think otherwise

@rolldestroyer said:

@dorukesin said:

this is based on his comic,like i said i don't find the scans now

read and then argue with me,when he merged with ROE it makes him strictly infinite like the ROE.

Nah don't worry i don't need the scans, just tell me the issue number so i can read it.......this shouldn't be so hard now should it?

he's killed by aztar in a difficult fight

he's strictly inherent omni-potent,presence and scient

..................Are you serious? you say that he was killed by the spectre yet you call him omnipotent?? nice logic there, not to mention Nabu questions why it took so long for the spectre to destroy him when he could have done so easily:

Prior to that Nabu was getting owned by Mordru in JSA #80

Gallery

.......ouch.....omnipotent?

Like i said......it's common knowledge, that Nabu isn't omnipotent only someone who has no clue about Nabu would think otherwise

okay bro,respect

@dorukesin: Glad you conceded.

That aside, Shazam merging with RoE and becoming "infinite" and "eternal" is a flat out lie, correct? i love how you antagonized me and said that i didn't read the books when you're the one who's lying. Irony at its highest level.

no,im stand behind my words.Honestly i'm not going to struggle about finding issue numbers now

you win ,white flag

I always see these posts and I tell everyone that individually, Michael, Lucifer, and LT are all around the same power level. DC and Marvel are too different universes with it's own particular limits placed on the character and the universe by its Ultimate being, TOAA or TP. If the 3 fight each other without limitations placed upon them by their creators or plot devices, it would be a match imo. Michael not being able to manipulate his creations really has no affect on his chances of winning, since he could destroy and create anything with or without a gesture, infinitely. He IS God's power, nothing below TP or TOAA can subdue him. He created all power beneath him, that automatically gives him a limitless arsenal. For instance, Mike can use telekinesis to shape his creations. He doesn't need the pure Will that his brother has.

Lucifer's ability to manipulate all of creation limitlessly is far more than enough for him to be a match for anyone under TOAA and TP. Notice I said WITHOUT LIMITS. Lucifer's Infinite Will can be used to will himself the ability to create something out of nothing. That's the point of being a Divine and Supreme reality warper. He IS God's Will, he can will himself to virtually have no limits.

LT is obviously just a mini TOAA, with a far smaller power scale, and far less authority, but he is still a force to be reckoned with for anything less than True Omnipotence (TOOA and TP). He like the Arch brothers, can basically do whatever her wants. Although he can do what Michael and Lucifer can do together, that does not give him the win. It comes down to more than just power, LT oversees the multiverses and all that is in it. Michael created the Multiverses, Lucifer shaped the Multiverses. All three are nigh omnipotent, have near flawless existence, and their durability is off scales. I honestly feel that they are about as close to equal in power as DC and Marvel can get. Unbound Spectre is below Lucifer and Michael so he would be below LT but not by much.

But anyway, between Michael and LT, the fight would come down to who can outsmart who, because whatever Michael creates, LT can create it as well. But whatever LT creates, Michael can easily destroy. LT can manipulate creation but Michael can simply undo whatever it is LT manipulates. That is why I say stalemate.

@the_red_viper: What are the comics where michael fights with the spectre please thanks?

LT

Michael due to infinite power

Living Tribunal.

The guy with the Demiurgic power.

Going with Tribunal here. Michael's power capability exceeds Tribunals, but he cannot use it fully without help. Living Tribunal can collapse the entire Marvel Omniverse if he wishes, Living Tribunal and Spectre cannot do the same thing in DC's omniverse without some special aide, divine object ect ect.

Michael Demiurgos.

LT

Needed The Beyonders to handle LT

@eternityx: Spectre has infinite speed and is Omnipotence

Spectre is what?

Michael.

Living Tribunal.

@khael: Yes he is according the "The DC Comics Encyclopedia The definitive guide to the characters of the DC Universe Updated and Expanded" (I own the book) It says on Page 317 it says in I quote

"Helping Young Justice: As the Spectre, Hal Jordan used his omnipotent power to help SECRET learn the truth about her past.".

1.I know you don't have the book but in the picture it is Spectre doing it not Hal Jordan.

Living tribunal

bump

Michael stomps.

i wonder if they are gonna keep LT dead for long time after secret wars

Have to go with Michael, but it's really close.

Michael

He made Spectre look like a cockroach

This is from comicvine character bio:

The archangel Michael Demuirgos is the second most powerful being in creation, rivalled only by his bother Lucifer and surpassed only by their father Yahweh, the God of the Covenant who was the one who gave Michael the Demiurgic Power. The Demiurgic power is essentially the building block for everything. Even concepts such as magic, cosmic and primordial power, time, dreams, emotions, all fall under one big category that is the demiurgic power, and because Michael has infinite amounts of it.

It was Michael who created all the concepts that makes up the Multiverse, which he also created. Michaels power is on such a level that, if he wishes, he could destroy all of creation ten times over.

So Michael wins.

Michael can, if he wished, do that as well... They are both nigh-omnipotent to the highest degree. Therefore this battle is more of a who is your favourite character. I just think people should stop lowballing Michael and Lucifer.

@the_red_viper: True. Being the judge of the multiverse automatically makes him smarter than Lucy

Micheal waves his hand.

@karanrasquinha: Not really. Lucy already is basically omniscient as he has both knowledge and understand on an ominversal scale far greater than that of the marvel multiverse. The guy outsmarts literal gods on a higher plane of existence than Living Tribunal, who has zero impressive intelligence feats. Lucifer is nigh-omniscient genius on a scale infinitely higher and greater than the virtually feats Living Tribunal.

OT: Micheal with ease.

@mister_surreal: I don't think LT cares about being intelligent or not lol. His one job is to protect the multiverse. His word is like law in the marvel multiverse. If he went to the DC multiverse he would be powerless since he is a servant to TOAA and not the presence.

If Michael and Lucy came to the marvel multiverse and threatened it, LT could shut them down the same way he did for the IG?

Correct me, but if Lucy and Mikey came to the marvel multiverse, wouldn't they lose a portion of their powers due to the presence not being present?

@karanrasquinha:

I was just responding to what you said.

No, assuming that this is them in their most powerful forms, they would still solo LT. Both have demonstrated they are still multiversal beings without The Presence being around, even after he left Lucifer was still the ruler of his own multiverse (which he created). While he is technically the source of their power, everything exist’s in the void and as such they still have their ablities. Being the judge of the multiverse didn’t save him from being killed by a group of beyonders.

tribunal wins.

Michael stomps jobber tribunal

Tribunal stomps.

@alternative_backup: Michael is bloodlusted?

Since everyone knows LT I'll provide one for Michael.
If you don't here: https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/most-powerful-the-living-tribunal-2090437/

In the beginning, before humans, gods, life, and even before the creation of the DC Multiverse. Yahweh God of the Covenant and of all creation created two brothers infused with his unlimited might Samael and Michael. Each of the brothers were bestowed as great as their father: To Samael he was given the gift of will and fire and to Michael that of Creation and the Demiurgic Power.

Michael is the 2nd most powerful being in the DC Universe rivaled only by his twin brother Lucifer and surpassed by their father.

He sets over Chaos and alongside his brother created all of Creation.

Michael was given the Demurgic power of God, it’s the word of fire that breaks and build, that laid the foundation of Creation, in which Lucifer willed it into existence. He used this in the war, he was so powerful, he could of ended everyone and the war with a mere gesture, however he was failed and stabbed in the back by Sandalphon. Who’s grand scheme was to use Michael genetic material to make a new race of Angels, to once again start another war.

Michael’s being God’s Infinite Power (Demiurgic Power) if ever harmed, and his vessel crack then it will wipe clean all of life.

Michael Demiurgic power was what brought the cosmos out of the nothing.

He only takes command from God, even when Lucifer promise Godhood to a new born Universe, Michael stubbornly refuses.

Michael is an Archangel, and of all of God’s servant there is none as mighty as he.

Michael can go to the Logos, and not many dare to that. The Logos is the tower filled with God’s voice, that sung all of Creation together. It’s infinitely high and is filled with God’s voice, that comes in the trillions.

Only Michael Demiurgic power can generate the cosmos from the void.

Even The Seraphim(the highest order of Angels) fear him.

He is made of Power and birth the first matter, which Lucifer weaved into the Stars.

Michael and Lucifer was Yahweh first and biggest idea.

He snapped the neck of a Demon like creature with immense ease.

Lucifer and Michael shall never meet on the same ground, because there is a Creation at risk. They both have gift as great as their father.

Michael is the spark that expands forever, the ocean of power with no shore.

He can disintegrate Angels with ease.

He can end the life of all the celestial host of Heaven.

He can cast out Lucifer out of heaven if he wished.

He can destroy part of the Sliver City with just a grip of his hands.

He poured out his power into Creation writing it in God’s name renewing it moment by moment since the beginning of Time, and he became us all.

The Demiurgic God choose him as his second.

He will if he want, hush Lucifer.

He bleeds Power.

He can harm and bring pain to Lucifer.

Inside Michael is the Dunamis Demiurgos also known as God’s power, if Michael vessel ever crack, it will overwhelm everything that exist.

Michael is the one who guards the gates of Heaven.

Michael chooses who comes and goes into Heaven.

Michael was the one to bind Aztar into the spirit of Vengeance.

Michael destroyed the Spectre when he tries to enter Heaven to retrieve the soul of James Corrigan.

Michael denies Spectre from entering Hell.

Michael had to beat the Primal Spectre.

He throws Aztar back into a host.

Honestly IDK why ppl think Living Tribunal would win.

@damnineedabreak said:

Since everyone knows LT I'll provide one for Michael.

If you don't here: https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/most-powerful-the-living-tribunal-2090437/

In the beginning, before humans, gods, life, and even before the creation of the DC Multiverse. Yahweh God of the Covenant and of all creation created two brothers infused with his unlimited might Samael and Michael. Each of the brothers were bestowed as great as their father: To Samael he was given the gift of will and fire and to Michael that of Creation and the Demiurgic Power.

Michael is the 2nd most powerful being in the DC Universe rivaled only by his twin brother Lucifer and surpassed by their father.

He sets over Chaos and alongside his brother created all of Creation.

Michael was given the Demurgic power of God, it’s the word of fire that breaks and build, that laid the foundation of Creation, in which Lucifer willed it into existence. He used this in the war, he was so powerful, he could of ended everyone and the war with a mere gesture, however he was failed and stabbed in the back by Sandalphon. Who’s grand scheme was to use Michael genetic material to make a new race of Angels, to once again start another war.

Michael’s being God’s Infinite Power (Demiurgic Power) if ever harmed, and his vessel crack then it will wipe clean all of life.

Michael Demiurgic power was what brought the cosmos out of the nothing.

He only takes command from God, even when Lucifer promise Godhood to a new born Universe, Michael stubbornly refuses.

Michael is an Archangel, and of all of God’s servant there is none as mighty as he.

Michael can go to the Logos, and not many dare to that. The Logos is the tower filled with God’s voice, that sung all of Creation together. It’s infinitely high and is filled with God’s voice, that comes in the trillions.

Only Michael Demiurgic power can generate the cosmos from the void.

Even The Seraphim(the highest order of Angels) fear him.

He is made of Power and birth the first matter, which Lucifer weaved into the Stars.

Michael and Lucifer was Yahweh first and biggest idea.

He snapped the neck of a Demon like creature with immense ease.

Lucifer and Michael shall never meet on the same ground, because there is a Creation at risk. They both have gift as great as their father.

Michael is the spark that expands forever, the ocean of power with no shore.

He can disintegrate Angels with ease.

He can end the life of all the celestial host of Heaven.

He can cast out Lucifer out of heaven if he wished.

He can destroy part of the Sliver City with just a grip of his hands.

He poured out his power into Creation writing it in God’s name renewing it moment by moment since the beginning of Time, and he became us all.

The Demiurgic God choose him as his second.

He will if he want, hush Lucifer.

He bleeds Power.

He can harm and bring pain to Lucifer.

Inside Michael is the Dunamis Demiurgos also known as God’s power, if Michael vessel ever crack, it will overwhelm everything that exist.

Michael is the one who guards the gates of Heaven.

Michael chooses who comes and goes into Heaven.

Michael was the one to bind Aztar into the spirit of Vengeance.

Michael destroyed the Spectre when he tries to enter Heaven to retrieve the soul of James Corrigan.

Michael denies Spectre from entering Hell.

Michael had to beat the Primal Spectre.

He throws Aztar back into a host.

Honestly IDK why ppl think Living Tribunal would win.

Because people can’t let go of the past when people assumed living tribunal was above dc somehow.

Micheal stomps.

Leaning towards Michael.