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#1 Posted by terry2012 (5210 posts) - - Show Bio

This is a battle between two female ninjas.

Location is in the forest

Win by whatever it is needed to win.

#2 Edited by EnhancedHuman (190 posts) - - Show Bio

Kasumi can teleport and can attack with bursts of energy .. Kasumi, won the tournament in Dead or Alive, defeating Raidou .. Kasumi won the fourth tournament defeating Alpha 152 .. Kasumi has defeated Hayabusa, Ayane and Hayate, on several occasions .. DOATEC elected and captured Kasumi to clone the DNA, which is the most powerful

Mai is a regular character on TKOF, and has done nothing impressive ..

Kasumi wins and very easy

#3 Posted by Twentyfive (2845 posts) - - Show Bio

They both lose to Blue Mary!

#4 Posted by Sonata (6264 posts) - - Show Bio

Kasumi should win. If it was Mai Shiranui from Queen's Gate who is actually more powerful than the KOF version I believe she would win. 

#5 Posted by Vance Astro (91220 posts) - - Show Bio
@Twentyfive said:

They both lose to Blue Mary!

Don't be ridiculous. 
 
@EnhancedHuman said:

Kasumi can teleport and can attack with bursts of energy .. Kasumi, won the tournament in Dead or Alive, defeating Raidou .. Kasumi won the fourth tournament defeating Alpha 152 .. Kasumi has defeated Hayabusa, Ayane and Hayate, on several occasions .. DOATEC elected and captured Kasumi to clone the DNA, which is the most powerful

Mai is a regular character on TKOF, and has done nothing impressive ..

Kasumi wins and very easy

Winning a DOA tournament is alot easier than claiming the King of Fighters. 
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#6 Posted by terry2012 (5210 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro: Who is blue mary?

#7 Posted by saiyan_earthling (5444 posts) - - Show Bio

Kasumi wins. Sparring with, and falling in love with a ninja is one thing, but hanging around with the likes of a Super Ninja who's fought demons and giant monsters is another.

#8 Edited by saiyan_earthling (5444 posts) - - Show Bio

@terry2012 said:

@Vance Astro: Who is blue mary?

She's a character from the Fatal Fury/King of Fighters series. She is good friends with Terry.

#9 Posted by Vance Astro (91220 posts) - - Show Bio
@saiyan_earthling said:

Kasumi wins. Sparring with, and falling in love with a ninja is one thing, but hanging around with the likes of a Super Ninja who's fought demons and giant monsters is another.

If you're talking about Hayabusa, I don't think she and him really have any connection other than being Ninjas. Ayane has more of a connection to him.
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#10 Posted by terry2012 (5210 posts) - - Show Bio

@saiyan_earthling: Ok thanks

#11 Posted by Twentyfive (2845 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro: Lol. Mary's crazy though.

#12 Posted by Vance Astro (91220 posts) - - Show Bio
@Twentyfive said:

@Vance Astro: Lol. Mary's crazy though.

Mary is terrible.
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#13 Posted by terry2012 (5210 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro: I thought Ayane had more of a connection to Hayate.

#14 Posted by Twentyfive (2845 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro said:

@Twentyfive said:

@Vance Astro: Lol. Mary's crazy though.

Mary is terrible.

She really is. But at least we can all agree that they all lose to Chun Li. The original FG girl.

#15 Posted by Vance Astro (91220 posts) - - Show Bio
@terry2012 said:

@Vance Astro: I thought Ayane had more of a connection to Hayate.

I believe Ayane is Hayate's apprentice or something like that but she's also the only Ninja from DOA aside from Hayabusa that appears in Ninja Gaiden. Kasumi is Hayate's sister though.
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#16 Posted by Vance Astro (91220 posts) - - Show Bio
@Twentyfive said:

But at least we can all agree that they all lose to Chun Li. The original FG girl.

No, doubt.
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#17 Posted by terry2012 (5210 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro: Ayane, Hayate, and Kasumi are brothers and sister. As for the apprentice thing I don't know. I think Ayane loves Hayate more then she should.

#18 Posted by Jayfournines (4024 posts) - - Show Bio

I give this one to Mai Shiranui, DOA fighters usually seem subpar compared to those that compete in the KoF tournament...and Mai usually hangs with the best.

#19 Posted by space_coyote (1132 posts) - - Show Bio

Mai's Deadly Ninja Bees ftw

#20 Edited by Vance Astro (91220 posts) - - Show Bio
@terry2012 said:

@Vance Astro: Ayane, Hayate, and Kasumi are brothers and sister. As for the apprentice thing I don't know. I think Ayane loves Hayate more then she should.

The only point of my post was that Hayabusa is the superior Ninja. Just because they appear in the same game as him doesn't mean they are as skilled or as powerful. I didn't know what actual connection Ayane had with Kasumi and Hayate other than them all being Ninjas, I do remember Ayane was there when Kasumi was a child but Ayane is usually around in cinematics involving Hayate.
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#21 Edited by EnhancedHuman (190 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro said:

@terry2012 said:

@Vance Astro: Ayane, Hayate, and Kasumi are brothers and sister. As for the apprentice thing I don't know. I think Ayane loves Hayate more then she should.

The only point of my post was that Hayabusa is the superior Ninja. Just because they appear in the same game as him doesn't mean they are as skilled or as powerful. I didn't know what actual connection Ayane had with Kasumi and Hayate other than them all being Ninjas, I do remember Ayane was there when Kasumi was a child but Ayane is usually around in cinematics involving Hayate.

Hayabusa is not superior... Kasumi and Ayane, has defeated Hayabusa ..

@Vance Astro said:


@EnhancedHuman said:

Kasumi can teleport and can attack with bursts of energy .. Kasumi, won the tournament in Dead or Alive, defeating Raidou .. Kasumi won the fourth tournament defeating Alpha 152 .. Kasumi has defeated Hayabusa, Ayane and Hayate, on several occasions .. DOATEC elected and captured Kasumi to clone the DNA, which is the most powerful

Mai is a regular character on TKOF, and has done nothing impressive ..

Kasumi wins and very easy

Winning a DOA tournament is alot easier than claiming the King of Fighters.

No matter - Kasumi can beat Ryu Hayabusa and Hayate - Mai can not beat Terry Bogard and Andy Bogard

#22 Posted by terry2012 (5210 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro: He is not the superior ninja. He only seems that way because he looked the coolest of them all. That why he got his on game and look like similar to scorpion. Actually Kasumi is more powerful than him. That why she was clone in the first place in part two ( Dead Or Alive Ultimate). Kasumi has the power to surpass them all and was very young when she started out. She Started out at the age of seventeen. Hayate is the leader of their ninja clan and Ayane is weakest of them all. The connection of them is that they are brother and sisters and Ryu Hayabusa is best friend to Hayate. I know this because I play games of Dead or Alive, I know there story. If you put them together to see who would fit in mortal kombat, automatically you would say Ryu Hayabusa because he fits in more than them. They look like they don't belong except for Hayabusa. There two things you have to accept, one Ryu Hayabusa is a better name for a game franchise and two you can not make a game for any other ninjas that are on Dead or Alive because it wont hold weight and substance. Kasumi is the main protagonist of Dead Or Alive.

#23 Posted by TERMINATORXX (3899 posts) - - Show Bio

Kasumi should win

be a good one though.

#24 Posted by Cozy_Da_Djed_Eye (10098 posts) - - Show Bio

The Asian girl wins.

#25 Posted by terry2012 (5210 posts) - - Show Bio

@CozyDaPrynce: Isn't they both asian?

#26 Posted by EnhancedHuman (190 posts) - - Show Bio

@terry2012 said:

@Vance Astro: He is not the superior ninja. He only seems that way because he looked the coolest of them all. That why he got his on game and look like similar to scorpion. Actually Kasumi is more powerful than him. That why she was clone in the first place in part two ( Dead Or Alive Ultimate). Kasumi has the power to surpass them all and was very young when she started out. She Started out at the age of seventeen. Hayate is the leader of their ninja clan and Ayane is weakest of them all. The connection of them is that they are brother and sisters and Ryu Hayabusa is best friend to Hayate. I know this because I play games of Dead or Alive, I know there story. If you put them together to see who would fit in mortal kombat, automatically you would say Ryu Hayabusa because he fits in more than them. They look like they don't belong except for Hayabusa. There two things you have to accept, one Ryu Hayabusa is a better name for a game franchise and two you can not make a game for any other ninjas that are on Dead or Alive because it wont hold weight and substance. Kasumi is the main protagonist of Dead Or Alive.

True .. in Dead or Alive the Ninjas are the supreme beings .. Kasumi, Hayabusa, Hayate/Ein, Ayane .. but, after the ninjas who's next?

#27 Posted by Cozy_Da_Djed_Eye (10098 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah they're both Asian and my bet's on Asian. I win this thread.

#28 Posted by terry2012 (5210 posts) - - Show Bio

@EnhancedHuman: Gen ru, Jann Lee, Leifang, Christie,Brad wong, Leon, Bayman, Zack,and Helena.

#29 Posted by EnhancedHuman (190 posts) - - Show Bio

@terry2012 said:

@EnhancedHuman: Gen ru, Jann Lee, Leifang, Christie,Brad wong, Leon, Bayman, Zack,and Helena.

Error.

and Hitomi, Eliot, Tina?

Hitomi is the successor of Ein .. Hitomi defeated Jann Lee.. Hitomi also defeated Hayate and Lei Fang.. Hitomi took third place in the tournament DOA 3

Eliot is the successor of Gen Fu .. Eliot defeated his master Gen Fu in DOA 4

Tina defeated Bass and Zack

#30 Posted by terry2012 (5210 posts) - - Show Bio

@EnhancedHuman: I forgot about those three

#31 Posted by Vance Astro (91220 posts) - - Show Bio
@terry2012 said:

@Vance Astro: He is not the superior ninja. He only seems that way because he looked the coolest of them all. That why he got his on game and look like similar to scorpion. Actually Kasumi is more powerful than him. That why she was clone in the first place in part two ( Dead Or Alive Ultimate). Kasumi has the power to surpass them all and was very young when she started out. She Started out at the age of seventeen. Hayate is the leader of their ninja clan and Ayane is weakest of them all. The connection of them is that they are brother and sisters and Ryu Hayabusa is best friend to Hayate. I know this because I play games of Dead or Alive, I know there story. If you put them together to see who would fit in mortal kombat, automatically you would say Ryu Hayabusa because he fits in more than them. They look like they don't belong except for Hayabusa. There two things you have to accept, one Ryu Hayabusa is a better name for a game franchise and two you can not make a game for any other ninjas that are on Dead or Alive because it wont hold weight and substance. Kasumi is the main protagonist of Dead Or Alive.

No, he doesn't seem that way. He IS that way. I think you're getting "potential" confused with "reality". Kasumi hasn't actually done nothing in canon storyline that would suggest she's superior to Ryu. Since you claim to know the story, you should know that. 
 
@EnhancedHuman said:

Hayabusa is not superior... Kasumi and Ayane, has defeated Hayabusa ..

I'm pretty sure they didn't. 
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#32 Posted by GraniteSoldier (7730 posts) - - Show Bio

Going have to go with Kasumi.

#33 Edited by terry2012 (5210 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro: No he is not. I think you have it the other way around with potential. Yes Kasumi has done something canon, why don't you try winning the Dead Or Alive Tournament because she won it. She did this when she was seventeen years old. You know the saying, the younger you are the stronger you are. She beaten Raidou a ninja who beat Hayate, Ayane, and Ryu Hayabusa all at once with ease. She beaten Ryu Hayabusa, Hayate, and Ayane in the torunament while she on the run from her ninja clan. Just in case you say she didn't,please check her story line in Dead Or Alive ultimate two. If you need video's evidence I'm happy to give them. Plus she is banded from her ninja clan and is force to live on the run from them. That means they do not have to bring her back Alive, they can bring her back dead. Remember she is the main "protagonist" of the game not Ryu Hayabusa. She even did a cameo in Ninja Gaiden sigma 2 at the end.

#34 Posted by terry2012 (5210 posts) - - Show Bio

@GraniteSoldier: Good choice but can you share some light on the ninjas in Dead Or alive game so some can know who stronger than Ryu Hayabusa.

#35 Edited by Jayfournines (4024 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro: No he is not. I think you have it the other way around with potential. Yes Kasumi has done something canon, why don't you try winning the Dead Or Alive Tournament. She did this when she was seventeen years old. You know the saying, the younger you are the stronger you are. She beaten Raidou a ninja who beat Hayate, Ayane, and Ryu Hayabusa all at once with ease. She beaten Ryu Hayabusa, Hayate, and Ayane in the torunament while she on the run from her ninja clan. Just in case you say she didn't,please check her story line in Dead Or Alive ultimate two. If you need video's evidence I'm happy to give them. Plus she is banded from her ninja clan and is force to live on the run from them. That means they do not have to bring her back Alive, they can bring her back dead. Remember she is the main "protagonist" of the game not Ryu Hayabusa. She even did a cameo in Ninja Gaiden sigma 2 at the end.

Yes Vance, why don't you? huh? >.>

#36 Edited by terry2012 (5210 posts) - - Show Bio

@Jayfournines: That not the way what I meant and thanks for showing that. Being edit

#37 Edited by Vance Astro (91220 posts) - - Show Bio
@terry2012 said:

@Vance Astro: No he is not. I think you have it the other way around with potential. Yes Kasumi has done something canon, why don't you try winning the Dead Or Alive Tournament because she won it. She did this when she was seventeen years old. You know the saying, the younger you are the stronger you are. She beaten Raidou a ninja who beat Hayate, Ayane, and Ryu Hayabusa all at once with ease. She beaten Ryu Hayabusa, Hayate, and Ayane in the torunament while she on the run from her ninja clan. Just in case you say she didn't,please check her story line in Dead Or Alive ultimate two. If you need video's evidence I'm happy to give them. Plus she is banded from her ninja clan and is force to live on the run from them. That means they do not have to bring her back Alive, they can bring her back dead. Remember she is the main "protagonist" of the game not Ryu Hayabusa. She even did a cameo in Ninja Gaiden sigma 2 at the end.

Yes, he is. Kasumi hasn't done anything in canon that makes her superior to Ryu. You only assume that she defeated Hayabusa because he was in a tournament that she won but for all we know he let her win if they ever actually fought because he only got into the tournament to keep and eye on her. Without Hayabusa, Kasumi wouldn't have defeated Raidou, Hayabusa distracted him while Kasumi finished him off. Kasumi couldn't have defeated Hayate to win any tournament because he wasn't in the first tournament because his back was broken fighting Raidou, and in the second Tournament she lost to him as Ein and in no other game does it specify what happened between her and Hayate. I own every DOA game. I don't need you to give me reference. Hayabusa doesn't need to be the main character to have better showings, he's done more in the Ninja Gaiden games than Kasumi has on 4 DOA games. Also in terms of the clan, the only members that are actually capable of killing her...wont. So she's not still alive because they are incapable of killing her.
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#38 Posted by Vance Astro (91220 posts) - - Show Bio
@Jayfournines said: 

Yes Vance, why don't you? huh? >.>

I already did.
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#39 Posted by terry2012 (5210 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro: No he is not. She beat him and that is canon. It is what makes her superior to him. If he was superior then he would be the leader of the clan not Hayate but he's not.

You only assume that she defeated Hayabusa because he was in a tournament that she one but for all we know he let her win if they ever actually fought because he only got into the tournament to keep and eye on her.

No I don't assume I know. He did not let her win and they actually fought. He was there to keep an eye on her, but he also was order to bring her back to the clan. That why he enter the tournament so he can bring her back. He said I can't allowed her to proceed. She was the one who was holding back and didn't want to fight not him. If you say you will not allow someone to proceed you are not going to hold back. What are you talking about? That why I said do you want videos on them. in fact here they are.

In these two videos they say the same thing. He was not holding back and want to fight. She not the one who wanted to fight so she had no choice. This prove it. When your in the same tournament you will eventually meet in the tournament. So they had to fight and he was dead serious in both videos. That why he also said the path of of a ninja is a difficult one. He is serious.

Without Hayabusa, Kasumi wouldn't have defeated Raidou, Hayabusa distracted him while Kasumi finished him off. Kasumi couldn't have defeated Hayate to win any tournament because he wasn't in the first tournament because his back was broken fighting Raidou, and in the second Tournament she lost to him as Ein and in no other game does it specify what happened between her and Hayate. I own every DOA game.

Hayabusa wasn't even there when she beat him by herself. Where did you get your information from? It has never stated that anywhere. I never said in the first tournament she beat him. Because in the game he is capture and having experiments done on him while the first tournament is going on, but in the manga (which is rare to find) he is there and he lost to Kasumi. She did not lose to him as Ein because she wouldn't been able to win the second tournament if she lost to him. It win or go home in that tournament. However he does gain his memory back and when he fought her he was using Karate. So he couldn't have been able to beat her.

in no other game does it specify what happened between her and Hayate. I own every DOA game. I don't need you to give me reference.

Your wrong because he is chasing after her with a group of assassin ninjas. It is Hayate and Kasumi DOA 3 ending story as a puzzle to put together. Since you own every DOA game how can you not remember this? I played Every DOA game and use to own some them. I wasn't given you reference, I was refreshing your memory and given you what is canon.

Hayabusa doesn't need to be the main character to have better showings, he's done more in the Ninja Gaiden games than Kasumi has on 4 DOA games. Also in terms of the clan, the only members that are actually capable of killing her...wont. So she's not still alive because they are incapable of killing her

I didn't say he need to be, if so than why did she made two cameos and Ayane made one as well. The story is focus around Kasumi. I was wrong she wasn't seventeen she was older than that.

Also in terms of the clan, the only members that are actually capable of killing her...wont. So she's not still alive because they are incapable of killing her

I know that but we are talking about beating someone not killing them. I know they wont kill her although they supposed to. In terms of the clan she is banned and can not return. By that she is being hunted down to be kill, but it wont happen. By those terms it suck to be a ninja.

#40 Posted by Vance Astro (91220 posts) - - Show Bio
@terry2012 said:

No I don't assume I know. He did not let her win and they actually fought. He was there to keep an eye on her, but he also was order to bring her back to the clan. That why he enter the tournament so he can bring her back. He said I can't allowed her to proceed. She was the one who was holding back and didn't want to fight not him. If you say you will not allow someone to proceed you are not going to hold back. What are you talking about? That why I said do you want videos on them. in fact here they are.

I think you are getting Hayabusa and Hayate's stories mixed up. Where are you getting that he was ordered to bring her back? It's my understanding that he was trying to stop Kasumi from proceeding in fear that she would be killed. Hayabusa's wasn't ordered to do anything. He followed Kasumi under his own will. 
 
@terry2012 said:

In these two videos they say the same thing. He was not holding back and want to fight. She not the one who wanted to fight so she had no choice. This prove it. When your in the same tournament you will eventually meet in the tournament. So they had to fight and he was dead serious in both videos. That why he also said the path of of a ninja is a difficult one. He is serious.

Hayabusa wasn't trying to defeat Kasumi he was trying to protect her. Being serious and holding back are two different things. Kasumi beating Hayabusa is only shown through gameplay so we don't actually know in storyline what the details of the fight were. 
 
@terry2012 said:

Hayabusa wasn't even there when she beat him by herself. Where did you get your information from? It has never stated that anywhere. I never said in the first tournament she beat him. Because in the game he is capture and having experiments done on him while the first tournament is going on, but in the manga (which is rare to find) he is there and he lost to Kasumi. She did not lose to him as Ein because she wouldn't been able to win the second tournament if she lost to him. It win or go home in that tournament. However he does gain his memory back and when he fought her he was using Karate. So he couldn't have been able to beat her.

In what game does it show that Kasumi beat Raidou by herself? In DOA Dimensions, it is shown that Ryu Hayabusa helped Kasumi defeat Raidou. He applied the Torn Sky Blast technique, Kasumi did the same..so she would not be overpowered, Ryu hit Raidou in the arm with a kunai, allowing Kasumi to kill overpower and kill him. I don't know if the DOA manga applies, they've never once shown Kasumi defeat Hayate in the games. If it's not canon it doesn't count. She DID lose to him as Ein, they didn't actually fight IN the tournament the fight took place after and that's where he remembered he was Hayate. 
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#41 Edited by terry2012 (5210 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro: I think you are getting Hayabusa and Hayate's stories mixed up. Where are you getting that he was ordered to bring her back? It's my understanding that he was trying to stop Kasumi from proceeding in fear that she would be killed. Hayabusa's wasn't ordered to do anything. He followed Kasumi under his own will.

No I'm getting them mix up. This order came from the very first game when she left the clan. In DOA two she is banned and force to live a life on the run. In other words they have to find her and bring her back Alive or dead. The reason why this is given is because they don't want their secrets to be discover by the world.

It's my understanding that he was trying to stop Kasumi from proceeding in fear that she would be killed. Hayabusa's wasn't ordered to do anything. He followed Kasumi under his own will.

You must miss the first part of the video when he said He promise Hayate I cannot let you die. Hayate had him to promise him that he would not let her die. That why he was following Kasumi not because of his own free will. It is because of the ninja clan order to bring her back DOA. The Ninja clan doesn't want her to given away their secrets to the world.The only things he is doing on his own free will is not killing her and keeping his promise to Hayate.

Hayabusa wasn't trying to defeat Kasumi he was trying to protect her. Being serious and holding back are two different things. Kasumi beating Hayabusa is only shown through gameplay so we don't actually know in storyline what the details of the fight were.

I know he was trying to protect her but that does means he was holding back. I know serious and Holding back are two different things. But she was the one who was holding back, because she didn't attack him but was trying to get away from him but couldn't. He was the one doing the attacking not her, that why she ask him not to get involved.

Kasumi beating Hayabusa is only shown through gameplay so we don't actually know in storyline what the details of the fight were.

Fair enough

In what game does it show that Kasumi beat Raidou by herself? In DOA Dimensions, it is shown that Ryu Hayabusa helped Kasumi defeat Raidou. He applied the Torn Sky Blast technique, Kasumi did the same..so she would not be overpowered, Ryu hit Raidou in the arm with a kunai, allowing Kasumi to kill overpower and kill him. I don't know if the DOA manga applies, they've never once shown Kasumi defeat Hayate in the games. If it's not canon it doesn't count. She DID lose to him as Ein, they didn't actually fight IN the tournament the fight took place after and that's where he remembered he was Hayate.

This was in DOA the first installment. Actually they didn't even have a story to show how she beat him. Because there was no cut scenes in the game. The story from dimension is a made up story that didn't happen in the first DOA game, So this is where we get the mix up from. In truth Raidou has only been in two of the DOA games, DOA, and DOA Dimension. DOA Dimension has a character that has never been in the console, and one character that has only been in the beach volleyball DOA. DOA dimension on 3ds, I don't know what timeline it took places, because there some characters that shouldn't be in the game. The DOA manga does applies. They show her beaten him during her story mode in the game.

She DID lose to him as Ein, they didn't actually fight IN the tournament the fight took place after and that's where he remembered he was Hayate.

Thanks for refreshing my memory your right. Because it didn't take place during the tournament it was a side fight your absolutely correct. But in the Manga she beats him which is rare to find.

#42 Posted by Vance Astro (91220 posts) - - Show Bio
@terry2012 said:

No I'm getting them mix up. This order came from the very first game when she left the clan. In DOA two she is banned and force to live a life on the run. In other words they have to find her and bring her back Alive or dead. The reason why this is given is because they don't want their secrets to be discover by the world.

How can Hayabusa be ordered to do something for a clan he's not a part of? Where is it suggested Hayabusa was ORDERED to do anything?
 
@terry2012 said:

You must miss the first part of the video when he said He promise Hayate I cannot let you die. Hayate had him to promise him that he would not let her die. That why he was following Kasumi not because of his own free will. It is because of the ninja clan order to bring her back DOA. The Ninja clan doesn't want her to given away their secrets to the world.The only things he is doing on his own free will is not killing her and keeping his promise to Hayate

No, I didn't miss that part at all, it's part of the reason I don't get why you think Hayabusa was actually trying to beat Kasumi. It is under his own free will because Hayate is his friend, he has no actual obligation to keep his promise to Hayate. 
 
@terry2012 said:

I know he was trying to protect her but that does means he was holding back. I know serious and Holding back are two different things. But she was the one who was holding back, because she didn't attack him but was trying to get away from him but couldn't. He was the one doing the attacking not her, that why she ask him not to get involved.

That doesn't mean he held back, but it doesn't mean he didn't either. We don't know what happened. It was taken care of through gameplay. She wasn't the one who was holding back. Just because she said she didn't want to fight Hayabusa, doesn't mean she didn't start taking it seriously once he engaged. She asked him not to get involved because she didn't want to fight him but he attacked her to stop her from getting hurt.  
 
@terry2012 said:

This was in DOA the first installment. Actually they didn't even have a story to how she beat him. Because there was no cut scenes in the game. The story from dimension is a made up story that didn't happen in the first DOA game, So this is where we get the mix up from. In truth Raidou has only been in two of the DOA games, DOA, and DOA Dimension. DOA Dimension has a character that has never been in the console, and one character that has only been in the beach volleyball DOA. DOA dimension on 3ds I don't know what timeline it took places, because there so characters that shouldn't be in the game. The DOA manga does applies. They show her beaten him during her story mode in the game.

Are you saying DOA Dimensions is non-canon? What's your proof? The character that appears in DOAD that you are talking about was always a DOA character he just wasn't playable before. He doesn't actually change the story though and the character you are talking about from Beach Volleyball does appear in the other games. Lisa Hamilton is La Mariposa from DOA4. I ask again, what is your proof that the Manga applies? Is that stated anywhere? In what game does it show her beating Hayate in story mode? If you play through her story mode, you obviously WILL beat Hayate but if I play through with Hayate, he would beat her. What canon victory does she have over him? 
 
@terry2012 said:

Thanks for refreshing my memory your right. Because it didn't take place during the tournament it was a side fight your absolutely correct. But in the Manga she beats him which is rare to find.

I'll wait for reference proving the Manga is canon.
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#43 Posted by EnhancedHuman (190 posts) - - Show Bio

@terry2012 said:

@Vance Astro: Kasumi has done something canon, why don't you try winning the Dead Or Alive Tournament because she won it. She did this when she was seventeen years old. You know the saying, the younger you are the stronger you are. She beaten Raidou a ninja who beat Hayate, Ayane, and Ryu Hayabusa all at once with ease. She beaten Ryu Hayabusa, Hayate, and Ayane in the torunament while she on the run from her ninja clan.

only in theory .. in practice they have done nothing

@Vance Astro said:

@terry2012 said:

@Vance Astro: He is not the superior ninja. He only seems that way because he looked the coolest of them all. That why he got his on game and look like similar to scorpion. Actually Kasumi is more powerful than him. That why she was clone in the first place in part two ( Dead Or Alive Ultimate). Kasumi has the power to surpass them all and was very young when she started out. She Started out at the age of seventeen. Hayate is the leader of their ninja clan and Ayane is weakest of them all. The connection of them is that they are brother and sisters and Ryu Hayabusa is best friend to Hayate. I know this because I play games of Dead or Alive, I know there story. If you put them together to see who would fit in mortal kombat, automatically you would say Ryu Hayabusa because he fits in more than them. They look like they don't belong except for Hayabusa. There two things you have to accept, one Ryu Hayabusa is a better name for a game franchise and two you can not make a game for any other ninjas that are on Dead or Alive because it wont hold weight and substance. Kasumi is the main protagonist of Dead Or Alive.

No, he doesn't seem that way. He IS that way. I think you're getting "potential" confused with "reality". Kasumi hasn't actually done nothing in canon storyline that would suggest she's superior to Ryu. Since you claim to know the story, you should know that.

@EnhancedHuman said:

Hayabusa is not superior... Kasumi and Ayane, has defeated Hayabusa ..

I'm pretty sure they didn't.

I understand what you mean .. Kasumi has done nothing to suggest that is more powerful than Hayabusa .. In theory, Hitomi defeated Hayate, and Kasumi defeated Hayabusa .. only in theory .. in practice they have done nothing

hayabusa can destroy spacecraft and helicopters with its powers

Bass drag a huge truck and lift a motorcycle with his hands

Jann Lee destroy a tree, broke a punching bag, and knocked out a dinosaur (to save Hitomi)

Ayane destroy a building with its powers

Kasumi was able to fight Alpha 152

Hayate was able to fight Raidou

The other characters have not shown anything impressive

Lei Fang broke a small rock and Tina get up the same rock of 50 kg (not impressive)

Lisa has made very good acrobatic jumps, but not impressive

Hitomi, Eliot and Kokoro have done absolutely nothing, just movements and choreography

Brad Wong and Zack has done absolutely nothing

The day that Zack, Hitomi and Kokoro, can do something like this........... jaa jaa

#44 Posted by terry2012 (5210 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro: How can Hayabusa be ordered to do something for a clan he's not a part of? Where is it suggested Hayabusa was ORDERED to do anything?

Isn't he the last of his Ninja clan?

No, I didn't miss that part at all, it's part of the reason I don't get why you think Hayabusa was actually trying to beat Kasumi. It is under his own free will because Hayate is his friend, he has no actual obligation to keep his promise to Hayate.

When he said the path of a ninja is a difficult one, he was trying to beat her. In other words KO her and take her back to Hayate. If you put what all he said to her together, you get he is trying to stop her and the only way he can do that is to beat her. But he did keep his promise to Hayate.

That doesn't mean he held back, but it doesn't mean he didn't either. We don't know what happened. It was taken care of through gameplay. She wasn't the one who was holding back. Just because she said she didn't want to fight Hayabusa, doesn't mean she didn't start taking it seriously once he engaged. She asked him not to get involved because she didn't want to fight him but he attacked her to stop her from getting hurt.

She was the one who was holding back. Yes she did take it seriously but still holding back. Why do you think she was trying to get away? it was to avoid a fight and plus she didn't attack him remember. He attacked her to stop her from getting kill not hurt, they are two different things. it would imply that he is not holding back if he is attacking her. That why he said the path of a ninja is a difficult one. Translation for he had no other choice but to face and he knew that. Or do we have to do this. So there is no holding back.

Are you saying DOA Dimensions is non-canon? What's your proof? The character that appears in DOAD that you are talking about was always a DOA character he just wasn't playable before. He doesn't actually change the story though and the character you are talking about from Beach Volleyball does appear in the other games. Lisa Hamilton is La Mariposa from DOA4. I ask again, what is your proof that the Manga applies? Is that stated anywhere? In what game does it show her beating Hayate in story mode? If you play through her story mode, you obviously WILL beat Hayate but if I play through with Hayate, he would beat her. What canon victory does she have over him?

It not a console game nor was it mention to be canon. My proof is that all you did was game and once you beat the game it had no cutscenes, but you did unlock characters. The character that appears DOA beach volleyball was not always in DOA. The one you talking about is Raidou younger brother but he was not always in the DOA game. If you go back to the console games he is not found. Raidou only appear in DOA 1 and dimension, also was a playable character in both games. La Mariposa only appear in DOA 4 fight games and that is it. Other than that she only been in beach volleyball DOA which does count because all they doing is playing volleyball and selling sex. Manga applies because it the actually story and how it is supposed to go which is the game is base off of. I said her story when you play as her not that she actually beating him. Just in her story when you play as her it show her beating him. Even though she truly lost. She fought him again in DOA 3.

#45 Posted by jeanroygrant (20191 posts) - - Show Bio

@Sonata said:

Kasumi should win. If it was Mai Shiranui from Queen's Gate who is actually more powerful than the KOF version I believe she would win.
#46 Posted by Vance Astro (91220 posts) - - Show Bio
@terry2012 said:

Isn't he the last of his Ninja clan?

Yes, and therefore he acts alone. He doesn't take orders. 
 
@terry2012 said:

When he said the path of a ninja is a difficult one, he was trying to beat her. In other words KO her and take her back to Hayate. If you put what all he said to her together, you get he is trying to stop her and the only way he can do that is to beat her. But he did keep his promise to Hayate.

There's no proof of that. That statement and his actions don't correlate. 
 
@terry2012 said:

She was the one who was holding back. Yes she did take it seriously but still holding back. Why do you think she was trying to get away? it was to avoid a fight and plus she didn't attack him remember. He attacked her to stop her from getting kill not hurt, they are two different things. it would imply that he is not holding back if he is attacking her. That why he said the path of a ninja is a difficult one. Translation for he had no other choice but to face and he knew that. Or do we have to do this. So there is no holding back.

There's no proof of that either. Their fight isn't shown through cinematics, it's depicted through gameplay. What actually took place in the fight itself is unknown. 
 
@terry2012 said:

It not a console game nor was it mention to be canon. My proof is that all you did was game and once you beat the game it had no cutscenes, but you did unlock characters. The character that appears DOA beach volleyball was not always in DOA. The one you talking about is Raidou younger brother but he was not always in the DOA game. If you go back to the console games he is not found. Raidou only appear in DOA 1 and dimension, also was a playable character in both games. La Mariposa only appear in DOA 4 fight games and that is it. Other than that she only been in beach volleyball DOA which does count because all they doing is playing volleyball and selling sex. Manga applies because it the actually story and how it is supposed to go which is the game is base off of. I said her story when you play as her not that she actually beating him. Just in her story when you play as her it show her beating him. Even though she truly lost. She fought him again in DOA 3.

DOA Dimensions is canon and it DOES have cutscenes in Chronicle mode, one of which depicting Kasumi fighting Raidou. The fact that Shinden and La Mariposa are in the game doesn't make it non-canon nor does the fact it's not a console game. It covers all the events of DOA from the first game to the last. I can't find any information the proves that Manga is canon. In fact I can't find any information on the manga at all. You said the game is based of the Manga but Tomonobu Itagaki is credited with creating all the characters in DOA and the story for the game, and he's never written a manga, he's a game designer.
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#47 Posted by terry2012 (5210 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro: I said there wasn't no cutscenes in DOA 1 not Dimensions. So it is was canon that she beat him on her own. That why I said there wasn't no Cutscenes in DOA 1 the first game. it didn't have all of that. It was was never shown how she beat him until they put it in the Chronicle mode in dimensions.

The fact that Shinden and La Mariposa are in the game doesn't make it non-canon nor does the fact it's not a console game.

Yes it does

It covers all the events of DOA from the first game to the last.

I know that, but there wasn't no cutscenes in DOA 1( The first game). It wasn't made until Dimension that it had cutscenes for the first game. So it is made up for the dimension in order to cover from 1-4, so we can know what happen. Things got retcon from there. Her bio still said she is 17 years old even although she enter the second tournament a year later after she won the first one.

I can't find any information the proves that Manga is canon. In fact I can't find any information on the manga at all.

I know that why I said it is rare to find. Here a video of it.

You said the game is based of the Manga but Tomonobu Itagaki is credited with creating all the characters in DOA and the story for the game, and he's never written a manga, he's a game designer.

I know that, but he can have someone else write the manga. All he have to do is tell them exactly how he wants it to go and then check up on it, to see is it going the way he wants it. It like Kishimoto when he is a manga writer and yet he has never made game, but he tells the game designer/designers what they can have in the game and what they can not have in the game. Everything about Naruto is run through Kishimoto him self even the games. Why do you think everybody ask is the Madara fight with Hashirama canon in Naruto Ultimate storm generation. Naruto Ultimate Storm generation is a sub side game and have nothing to do with the story. Yet Kishimoto have given them the blessing to do so even though he has not written the story on how their fight went, nor haven't shown it yet in the manga. He mite have the plans for them, but he has not written them out yet. In fact in the video it doesn't even show Madara using his Complete Susanno. The truth is you don't have to always be a game designer to make a game or vise versa a manga writer to make a manga.

#48 Posted by Vance Astro (91220 posts) - - Show Bio
@terry2012 said:

I know that, but there wasn't no cutscenes in DOA 1( The first game).

That's why there are cutscenes in Dimensions that tie-up all the lose ends. You can't say something didn't happen because it wasn't explained until later. If DOA1 has no cutscenes then the idea that Kasumi beat Raidou on her own was never stated or shown. It's not a retcon if you don't know the details of the fight in the first place.
 
@terry2012 said:

The fact that Shinden and La Mariposa are in the game doesn't make it non-canon nor does the fact it's not a console game.

Yes it does

No, it doesn't. 
 
@terry2012 said:

I know that, but he can have someone else write the manga. All he have to do is tell them exactly how he wants it to go and then check up on it, to see is it going the way he wants it. It like Kishimoto when he is a manga writer and yet he has never made game, but he tells the game designer/designers what they can have in the game and what they can not have in the game. Everything about Naruto is run through Kishimoto him self even the games. Why do you think everybody ask is the Madara fight with Hashirama canon in Naruto Ultimate storm generation. Naruto Ultimate Storm generation is a sub side game and have nothing to do with the story. Yet Kishimoto have given them the blessing to do so even though he has not written the story on how their fight went, nor haven't shown it yet in the manga. He mite have the plans for them, but he has not written them out yet. In fact in the video it doesn't even show Madara using his Complete Susanno. The truth is you don't have to always be a game designer to make a game or vise versa a manga writer to make a manga.

If the events in the manga were canon they would have been stated or shown in one of the games, yet there are instances from the Manga that NEVER happened in ANY game. If Kasumi supposedly beat Hayate, why is it they've had several encounters in the games and not one of them were in her favor?
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#49 Posted by terry2012 (5210 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro: You can't say something didn't happen because it wasn't explained until later.

Yes you can because it didn't happen earlier like you said. That where the confusion is coming from. If he didn't do that in dimensions who knows what had happen. All we would know is that she won the tournament and beat Raidou without knowing exactly how she did it.

If DOA1 has no cutscenes then the idea that Kasumi beat Raidou on her own was never stated or shown.

It was stated but it was never shown. It why I said some things got retcon.

It's not a retcon if you don't know the details of the fight in the first place.

I said somethings got retcon and it was one of them so yes it is. You said it yourself, if you don't know the details of the fight in the first place, which is why it is retcon. It is now no longer she beat him by herself because now she had help when she did. So It is retcon because it didn't show details of her winning.

No, it doesn't.

That is your opinion. Yes it does because they are adding on to it which changes the picture and story.

If the events in the manga were canon they would have been stated or shown in one of the games, yet there are instances from the Manga that NEVER happened in ANY game. If Kasumi supposedly beat Hayate, why is it they've had several encounters in the games and not one of them were in her favor?

They don't have to stated or show it in the games if they want to change the story on the fly, it wasn't the whole manga I show you, remember it is rare and in that manga it wasn't in the beginning. It was more down the line because there wasn't no tournament going on. Remember I said they change the story and it was in the manga she beat him not in the game. Don't you think it would make Hayate an almost worthless leader of the ninja clan if he was to lose to his sister, who is only 17 or 18 years old.

#50 Posted by Vance Astro (91220 posts) - - Show Bio
@terry2012 said: 

Yes you can because it didn't happen earlier like you said. That where the confusion is coming from. If he didn't do that in dimensions who knows what had happen. All we would know is that she won the tournament and beat Raidou without knowing exactly how she did it.

The confusion shouldn't be coming from that because I never said that in the first place. The fight with Raidou happened in the DOA1 storyline, I never said it was depicted in the first game. That's why I asked YOU, "in what game does it show that Kasumi beat Raidou by herself", because there is only one depiction of it actually happening. There is no IF regarding dimensions. Hayabusa helped Kasumi defeat Raidou, it's as simple as that. 
 
@terry2012 said:

It was stated but it was never shown. It why I said some things got retcon.

It was stated that she beat Raidou. How it happened was never stated, thus what was shown in Dimensions ISN'T a retcon. Retcon suggests that something was overwritten. The details of the the fight never existed to be overwritten in the first place.
 
@terry2012 said:

That is your opinion. Yes it does because they are adding on to it which changes the picture and story.

Dimensions doesn't actually change anything in the story, it only fills in the holes. Why would they have tied up the lose ends in a non-canon game? That doesn't make any sense. I just think you don't want the game to be canon because it proves that Kasumi COULDN'T beat Raidou without Hayabusa.
 
@terry2012 said:

They don't have to stated or show it in the games if they want to change the story on the fly, it wasn't the whole manga I show you, remember it is rare and in that manga it wasn't in the beginning. It was more down the line because there wasn't no tournament going on. Remember I said they change the story and it was in the manga she beat him not in the game. Don't you think it would make Hayate an almost worthless leader of the ninja clan if he was to lose to his sister, who is only 17 or 18 years old.

They do have to state it or show it in the games. How can't you tell me there is a manga that the games are based on (that's stated NOWHERE BTW), but the events in the manga and the game are different? It's not like Dimensions where it simply depicts events that happened but we have never seen in detail. The story in the manga and the one in the games is different entirely. Kasumi has never beaten Hayate.
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