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#1 Posted by lord_oraculous016 (9282 posts) - - Show Bio

who will win in an epic battle the Hell-Lord Mephisto, the Lord of Lies and the the Fire Demon Surtur, ruler of the fiery wasteland of Muspelheim..

MEPHISTO

VS.

SURTUR

battle takes place at neutral realms but with the two at full power..

who do you think would win?

all comments are welcome..

#2 Posted by MagneticShockwave (1244 posts) - - Show Bio

Mephisto. 
Though Surtur has the power of immense magic, he is still a being of Elemental power, which is obviously fire. So his fire is different than Mephisto's hell fire or the fire on Dormammu's head. 
And by saying full power, I'm guessing that Surtur is using the Twilight Sword. If so, this might be closer to a stalemate, but then again, I do believe that Mephisto over powers him by a good margin.

#3 Posted by Outside_85 (8015 posts) - - Show Bio

By full power I am going to assume the Sword of Twilight has been dipped in the Eternal Flame...off hand I'd say Surtur because of that.

#4 Posted by RoyalDivinity (3161 posts) - - Show Bio

Mephisto's a mid level skyfather, Surtur's more powerful than Odin.
#5 Posted by czarny_samael666 (16888 posts) - - Show Bio

Surtur.
 
Mephisto is barely Odin's or Dormammu's level, while Surtur is more powerfull than them. 
It took Odin's life and Designate's power to kill him. 
 
With TS - it is a stomp.

#6 Posted by MzombieX (975 posts) - - Show Bio

Surtur is beyond Mephisto

#7 Posted by MagneticShockwave (1244 posts) - - Show Bio

Surtur is just next door to Asgard. If he was so powerful, he would have ruled Asgard and all the entire lands surrounding it a long time ago. Same can be said about Odin. All of them belong in the same realm. Land of air, fire, water, ice, earth etc..
 

The three worlds in the north of the earth:

The three worlds on earth:

The three worlds in the south of the earth:

#8 Posted by czarny_samael666 (16888 posts) - - Show Bio
@MagneticShockwave said:
Surtur is just next door to Asgard. If he was so powerful, he would have ruled Asgard and all the entire lands surrounding it a long time ago. Same can be said about Odin. All of them belong in the same realm. Land of air, fire, water, ice, earth etc..
 

The three worlds in the north of the earth:

The three worlds on earth:

The three worlds in the south of the earth:

He is powerfull, but Odin has better help from others. Like Thor or Destroyer or other strong gods.
#9 Posted by dccomicsrule2011 (22880 posts) - - Show Bio

Surtur.

Online
#10 Posted by BigCimmerian (7845 posts) - - Show Bio

Mephisto is out of his league here, Surtur is above Odin.

#11 Posted by King Saturn (223723 posts) - - Show Bio
Surtur should win this battle.
#12 Posted by CapitolPunishment (2303 posts) - - Show Bio

Mephisto would lead Surter into a trap "Hey Surter, lets go to Asgard and kill Odin, trust me, I got your back!". then he would sit back sipping his whine while watching  him get stomped by Odin and hundreds of Asgardians.

#13 Posted by MagneticShockwave (1244 posts) - - Show Bio
@CapitolPunishment said:
Mephisto would lead Surter into a trap "Hey Surter, lets go to Asgard and kill Odin, trust me, I got your back!". then he would sit back sipping his whine while watching  him get stomped by Odin and hundreds of Asgardians.
Then he takes the Twilight.
#14 Edited by MzombieX (975 posts) - - Show Bio
@MagneticShockwave said:



                    Mephisto. Though Surtur has the power of immense magic, he is still a being of Elemental power, which is obviously fire. So his fire is different than Mephisto's hell fire or the fire on Dormammu's head. And by saying full power, I'm guessing that Surtur is using the Twilight Sword. If so, this might be closer to a stalemate, but then again, I do believe that Mephisto over powers him by a good margin.

                   

               


@MagneticShockwave said:



                    Surtur is just next door to Asgard. If he was so powerful, he would have ruled Asgard and all the entire lands surrounding it a long time ago. Same can be said about Odin. All of them belong in the same realm. Land of air, fire, water, ice, earth etc..
 

The three worlds in the north of the earth:

The three worlds on earth:

The three worlds in the south of the earth:

  
 

 
 Mephisto couldn't succeed at containing the immortal soul of Thor, without crying out in pain, let alone have any more success at overthrowing all of Asgard and maintaining absolute rule.
Now granted, Mephisto is extremely powerful - but he is not above Skyfather level.
Labeling Surtur as simply a God of the "Fire Element" is greatly undermining his position. It isn't like he's the Human Torch after all ... he is the Blacksmith of Hell.
There is no way that Mephisto's Hellfire would be of any concern for Surtur. Even Thor has shrugged off Hellfire from Ghost Rider like it was nothing.
Surtur and the Twilight Sword are more than a match for Mephisto. Surtur is a Galaxy Buster. 
 
#15 Posted by Owie (3568 posts) - - Show Bio

Surtur. I've never seen Mephisto portrayed as being capable of destroying a dimension. Honestly, what are Mephisto's best feats? I feel like he's pretty powerful, but I can't think of much he's done through brute power, he just always uses treachery.

#16 Posted by MagneticShockwave (1244 posts) - - Show Bio
@MzombieX said:
@MagneticShockwave said:



                    Mephisto. Though Surtur has the power of immense magic, he is still a being of Elemental power, which is obviously fire. So his fire is different than Mephisto's hell fire or the fire on Dormammu's head. And by saying full power, I'm guessing that Surtur is using the Twilight Sword. If so, this might be closer to a stalemate, but then again, I do believe that Mephisto over powers him by a good margin.

                   

               


@MagneticShockwave said:



                    Surtur is just next door to Asgard. If he was so powerful, he would have ruled Asgard and all the entire lands surrounding it a long time ago. Same can be said about Odin. All of them belong in the same realm. Land of air, fire, water, ice, earth etc..
 

The three worlds in the north of the earth:

The three worlds on earth:

The three worlds in the south of the earth:

  
 

 
 Mephisto couldn't succeed at containing the immortal soul of Thor, without crying out in pain, let alone have any more success at overthrowing all of Asgard and maintaining absolute rule.
Now granted, Mephisto is extremely powerful - but he is not above Skyfather level.
Labeling Surtur as simply a God of the "Fire Element" is greatly undermining his position. It isn't like he's the Human Torch after all ... he is the Blacksmith of Hell.
There is no way that Mephisto's Hellfire would be of any concern for Surtur. Even Thor has shrugged off Hellfire from Ghost Rider like it was nothing.
Surtur and the Twilight Sword are more than a match for Mephisto. Surtur is a Galaxy Buster. 
 
Mephisto is not like other hell lords. his ambitions are not universal conquest, because if he were, he would own a huge margin of the Pantheons. Have you ever read Mephisto comics? He acts like the Riddler, and most of his stories are to test the chosen if they are worthy of what they have. If Thor wasn't worthy of his soul, Mephisto would have taken it, but even if he had taken it, Mephisto being the character that he is will provided chances that's because that's the kind of character he is. When he was fighting with Galactus, he was completely toying with Galactus to the point of exertion.  Galactus was lucky because he Mephisto's realm  is collected of souls.... Souls which Galactus feeds on, and souls being like trophies, Mephisto didn't want to risk them. 
 
Surture is a galaxy buster, but mephisto is a multi-galaxy buster.
#17 Posted by MagneticShockwave (1244 posts) - - Show Bio
@Owie: Read above
#18 Posted by MrDirector786 (43371 posts) - - Show Bio

@MagneticShockwave said:

mephisto is a multi-galaxy buster.

Do you have any proof of this?

#19 Edited by MagneticShockwave (1244 posts) - - Show Bio
@MrDirector786 said:

@MagneticShockwave said:

mephisto is a multi-galaxy buster.

Do you have any proof of this?

When he fought Galactus. 
Mephisto is in a class called neigh-omnipotence. 
Odin nor is Surtur are neigh-omnipotent. 
 
One can banish Surtur for good. 
But no one had ever banished Mephisto (for good), because they can't.  
 
 
 
 
  Purpose is not to kill
"The Power Cosmics are but a yapping puppy compared to my power. I could easliy crush you BUT THAT IS NOT MY PURPOSE TO DO because I could loose your soul forever. YOU MUST LIVE AND SURRENDER YOUR SOUL." 
 
 
  
 

 Thanos needs the Infinity Guantlet to out-wit Mephisto's "TRIAL" 
"I AM THANOS! You can not fool me!!" 
"I.. I.. was merely testing to see if you were worthy of that power....."

 
 
 
 
  
Galaxy buster 1
"I can destroy a galaxy, but what;s the point"?
  
  
 
Mephisto's power clashes with a full powered Galactus 
If I can destroy a galaxy, I can shatter many!  
 
"Galaxies bid to agonizing disarray"
 
 

 

 
  
Again.... 
Mephisto has the power...... 
But what is the point? What is the point of destroying galaxies? He gains nothing off of it. 
#20 Posted by Nefarious (18363 posts) - - Show Bio

Surtur wins this fight.

#21 Edited by MagneticShockwave (1244 posts) - - Show Bio

This is basically a battle between a Neigh-Omnipotent vs a Galaxy Buster with an artifact that increases his power.

#22 Posted by demifiend (3575 posts) - - Show Bio
@PunkMastaFlex said:
Mephisto's a mid level skyfather, Surtur's more powerful than Odin.
as usual you dont know anything...
#23 Posted by MagneticShockwave (1244 posts) - - Show Bio
@demifiend said:
@PunkMastaFlex said:
Mephisto's a mid level skyfather, Surtur's more powerful than Odin.
as usual you dont know anything...
Is he one of the top debators?
#24 Posted by demifiend (3575 posts) - - Show Bio
@MagneticShockwave said:
@demifiend said:
@PunkMastaFlex said:
Mephisto's a mid level skyfather, Surtur's more powerful than Odin.
as usual you dont know anything...
Is he one of the top debators?
not even close :P
#25 Posted by Deadcool (6809 posts) - - Show Bio

Surtur at his best could destroy Mephisto easily, current Surtur, I don`t know maybe Mephisto, because Surtur is a little depowered...

#26 Posted by MagneticShockwave (1244 posts) - - Show Bio
@demifiend said:
@MagneticShockwave said:
@demifiend said:
@PunkMastaFlex said:
Mephisto's a mid level skyfather, Surtur's more powerful than Odin.
as usual you dont know anything...
Is he one of the top debators?
not even close :P
Who are the top debators?
#27 Posted by demifiend (3575 posts) - - Show Bio
@MagneticShockwave said:
@demifiend said:
@MagneticShockwave said:
@demifiend said:
@PunkMastaFlex said:
Mephisto's a mid level skyfather, Surtur's more powerful than Odin.
as usual you dont know anything...
Is he one of the top debators?
not even close :P
Who are the top debators?
mm i dont know, honestly i like creator, superman defender, and king saturn,   
 
and of course me, im always right, ;)
#28 Posted by MagneticShockwave (1244 posts) - - Show Bio
@demifiend said:
@MagneticShockwave said:
@demifiend said:
@MagneticShockwave said:
@demifiend said:
@PunkMastaFlex said:
Mephisto's a mid level skyfather, Surtur's more powerful than Odin.
as usual you dont know anything...
Is he one of the top debators?
not even close :P
Who are the top debators?
mm i dont know, honestly i like creator, superman defender, and king saturn,    and of course me, im always right, ;)
Ok. Magneto vs Volcan?
#29 Posted by demifiend (3575 posts) - - Show Bio
@MagneticShockwave said:
@demifiend said:
@MagneticShockwave said:
@demifiend said:
@MagneticShockwave said:
@demifiend said:
@PunkMastaFlex said:
Mephisto's a mid level skyfather, Surtur's more powerful than Odin.
as usual you dont know anything...
Is he one of the top debators?
not even close :P
Who are the top debators?
mm i dont know, honestly i like creator, superman defender, and king saturn,    and of course me, im always right, ;)
Ok. Magneto vs Volcan?
they both have a lot of power but i think vulcan's childish mindset will be his downfall in comparison to mag's genius.
#30 Posted by MagneticShockwave (1244 posts) - - Show Bio
@demifiend said:
@MagneticShockwave said:
@demifiend said:
@MagneticShockwave said:
@demifiend said:
@MagneticShockwave said:
@demifiend said:
@PunkMastaFlex said:
Mephisto's a mid level skyfather, Surtur's more powerful than Odin.
as usual you dont know anything...
Is he one of the top debators?
not even close :P
Who are the top debators?
mm i dont know, honestly i like creator, superman defender, and king saturn,    and of course me, im always right, ;)
Ok. Magneto vs Volcan?
they both have a lot of power but i think vulcan's childish mindset will be his downfall in comparison to mag's genius.
Nice. I just beat DoomDoomDoom in chess, do you want to play? I think all of Comicvine should play.
#31 Posted by MzombieX (975 posts) - - Show Bio
@MagneticShockwave
 
While I'll admit that a couple of the scans posted are impressive, and I don't question that Mephisto is powerful ...  
I still don't see undisputable evidence that places Mephisto "above" Surtur's power.  

I see Mephisto clashing with the Silver Surfer while making bold claims with sinister bravado. Yet are you saying a Herald of Galactus is beyond Surtur as well? 
I have a scan of Surtur calm, unflinching, and casually staring down - Thor, with the Odin Force - and talking about destroying the world as we know it and crushing stars in battle. 
I'd say that shows a bold display of confidance, more so than facing Silver Surfer while making a speech - If that were to be considered a valid display of power.

I see Mephisto talking of "testing" Thanos ... while in an awkward position at the end of a vice grip around his throat. Not so impressed by that one. 

I see Mephisto claiming that he can destroy a Galaxy but doesn't feel the need to. Well fair enough, kind of ... I guess - But then again Surtur has actually done so under his own power.   
Surtur has proven to show that he can destroy a galaxy, then harness the power, and manipulate the galaxy to forge Twilight from the core of its destruction. 
In doing so, the force of his power is felt across the span of ... a billion billion worlds.

The last scan you showed, is impressive and has alot of spectacle, that you're saying is the result of the clashing of Mephisto's power combined with the power unleashed by Galactus. 
Although I don't necessarily see where it says or shows that multiple galaxies were in fact destroyed in the process. It also wouldn't be due to the power of Mephisto alone, if it had happened. 
The narration seems to be trying to give weight to the power displayed and talking in dramatic terms of the galaxies "quaking at the sight and in disarray" .. but not necessarily destroyed. 
Maybe I'm mistaken and missing something though, but I don't know if there is enough context to show that Mephisto himself can shatter multiple galaxies.  
 
As far as banishing Mephisto for good; I know he has been cast out and defeated before, and even outwitted by T'Challa and overwhelmed by the Panther God. 
Sure, he usually returns again to menace the world and his enemies etc. as most comic villians do.
Yet I don't know of anyone who has necessarily defeated and banished Surtur for good either though, for you to claim that there is some difference separating the two beings.

 
  
 
   

#32 Posted by Owie (3568 posts) - - Show Bio

@MagneticShockwave said:

@demifiend said:
@MagneticShockwave said:
@demifiend said:
@PunkMastaFlex said:
Mephisto's a mid level skyfather, Surtur's more powerful than Odin.
as usual you dont know anything...
Is he one of the top debators?
not even close :P
Who are the top debators?

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/off-topic/5/rate-the-debaters/16480/?

and there are a few other threads like it

As for the scans you posted, I agree that Mephisto is a schemer, not a battler, in terms of his role in the universe. But those scans don't necessarily convince me of his power. When he says he can destroy a galaxy, I take that as possible or even probable hyperbole on his part, lots of guys like to talk smack about how tough they are. For every 10 guys who say, "I can destroy the world!!!!!," followed by an evil cackle, there is about 1 who can actually do it.

The narrative that is attached to the Galactus fight, talking about galaxies quaking, does evoke some degree of power, but that's also language that is pretty standard for cosmic comics and I think is meant to be more figurative than literal. But, I am interested in hearing about that Galactus/Mephisto fight...what issue did it take place in?

Mephisto's power is also much more dependent on being in his own realm, while Surtur's is less dependent on being in Muspelheim/Asgard. So for me the signs still point to Surtur.

#33 Posted by demifiend (3575 posts) - - Show Bio
@MagneticShockwave: lets play
#34 Posted by MagneticShockwave (1244 posts) - - Show Bio
@demifiend said:
@MagneticShockwave: lets play
Ok log on! 
 
 
 
@MzombieX@Owie: I'll get back to you guys later. Gonna play some chess. @ chess.com
#35 Posted by Owie (3568 posts) - - Show Bio

@MzombieX said:

@MagneticShockwave:

While I'll admit that a couple of the scans posted are impressive, and I don't question that Mephisto is powerful ...
I still don't see undisputable evidence that places Mephisto "above" Surtur's power.

I see Mephisto clashing with the Silver Surfer while making bold claims with sinister bravado. Yet are you saying a Herald of Galactus is beyond Surtur as well?
I have a scan of Surtur calm, unflinching, and casually staring down - Thor, with the Odin Force - and talking about destroying the world as we know it and crushing stars in battle.
I'd say that shows a bold display of confidance, more so than facing Silver Surfer while making a speech - If that were to be considered a valid display of power.

I see Mephisto talking of "testing" Thanos ... while in an awkward position at the end of a vice grip around his throat. Not so impressed by that one.

I see Mephisto claiming that he can destroy a Galaxy but doesn't feel the need to. Well fair enough, kind of ... I guess - But then again Surtur has actually done so under his own power.
Surtur has proven to show that he can destroy a galaxy, then harness the power, and manipulate the galaxy to forge Twilight from the core of its destruction.
In doing so, the force of his power is felt across the span of ... a billion billion worlds.

The last scan you showed, is impressive and has alot of spectacle, that you're saying is the result of the clashing of Mephisto's power combined with the power unleashed by Galactus.
Although I don't necessarily see where it says or shows that multiple galaxies were in fact destroyed in the process. It also wouldn't be due to the power of Mephisto alone, if it had happened.
The narration seems to be trying to give weight to the power displayed and talking in dramatic terms of the galaxies "quaking at the sight and in disarray" .. but not necessarily destroyed.
Maybe I'm mistaken and missing something though, but I don't know if there is enough context to show that Mephisto himself can shatter multiple galaxies.

As far as banishing Mephisto for good; I know he has been cast out and defeated before, and even outwitted by T'Challa and overwhelmed by the Panther God.
Sure, he usually returns again to menace the world and his enemies etc. as most comic villians do.
Yet I don't know of anyone who has necessarily defeated and banished Surtur for good either though, for you to claim that there is some difference separating the two beings.





How 'bout that? We both simultaneously posted the exact same analysis/mostly dismissal of those Mephisto scans! But you ended with the good old classic Surtur scans, so props to you!

#36 Posted by MagneticShockwave (1244 posts) - - Show Bio
@MzombieX@Owie:  
 
 You two pretty must posted the same thing so I will answer to both in this one post. Mephisto is a neigh-omnipotent demon meaning his powers are nearly unlimited in strength and reach. Mephisto can come and go ANYWHERE in the Marvel universe safe for those places that are far in reach of Eternity. Surtur can not. He is a permanent resident of an area that surrounds Asgard. Think of 9 floating rocks the size of a Texas that are floating in the middle of space. One of them is Asgard and there are another 8 floating along with it. One of them is the Land of Fire where Surtur rules. Surtur and the Ice Giant Ymir are the only two that likes to wage war with Asgard which are all neighborhood "states". Surtur is the strongest, but he's been banished countless of times along with Ymir
Ymir, Surtur, Odin are all in par with one another. Odin just wins all the time because he has the man power and the artifacts that place him on top. This is why Surtur created the Twilight in the 1st place. 
 
Why isn't Mephisto in this circle? Because he doesn't belong here. He exist everywhere collecting souls from all parts of the universe. So about your counter arguments of the scans I've posted. Mephisto fighting Surfer eventually lead on to him fighting Galactus hence, "The Power Cosmic is just a yapping puppy compared to my power". Mephisto, proves this by fighting Galactus in a jestery manor. The scan with Thanos should be a big feat for anyone who had read the arc. While Thanos was concentrating looking for the power of the Infinity Gauntlet, Mephisto was concentrating looking for the Medallion of Power. When Thanos finally gained the power of the Infinity Gauntlet, he was FINALLY able to see that Mephisto had his own agenda. Without the Infinity Gauntlet. Thanos was putting up with a lot of Mephisto's sh1t. Mephisto was testing him that whole time! Trying to trick Thanos of his soul when Thanos really wanted to give his soul to Death. In my opinion, this is a huge feat, because Surtur can not do this. Not when Thanos without the IG was nearly equal to Odin's. 
 
Mephisto does have the power to shatter galaxies. This is the scan before the last scan I posted. 
 
 
 Again. Aside of just power, he's everywhere and is almost always present with all the cosmic abstracts.  
 
 

  

 
 
     
 
Furthermore, was  personally warned by the Living Tribunal.
Surtur and the Asgardian Gods .... Or any Pantheon god are not in this league. And this is a fact.
#37 Posted by TheGoldenOne (38849 posts) - - Show Bio
I was going to make this battle today O_O Anyway, going with Surtur here.
#38 Edited by MzombieX (975 posts) - - Show Bio

@MagneticShockwave
 
Nice scans. There's no question Mephisto has great power and has a place in the cosmic scheme of things. Although I still think you underestimate Surtur. 
 
You keep saying that Mephisto is "nigh-omnipotent" as if this is something unique to be said of a cosmic entity or God of great power.  
It isn't that uncommon for beings of this calibur to be described as nearly omnipotent in comic books, when throwing out a vague scale of their immense power. 
If that is to be taken as fact, then I could just as easily say that Surtur is simply "omnipotent" 
Odin has been described in a comic panel as being, not just nigh-omnipotent, but straight up omnipotent.  
Taking into consideration that Surtur is at the very least equal to Odin, if not more so ... then it would stand to reason that Surtur is omnipotent, by that logic.
 
You talk of Surtur being banished or failing at times, and yet Surtur has far superior showings to Mephisto overall. 
It isn't as if Mephisto has not been defeated or banished before or even outwitted. He has many low showings of being defeated by heroes far below Skyfather level, to nearly street level. 
Surtur on the other hand requires no less than the combined power of multiple Gods or the sacrificial death of Odin himself to be defeated.  
 
Surtur forged the Twilight sword because he is the Apocalyptic God. He is the oldest being of the 9 worlds and is fated to be the last being in the entire known Universe. 
When he takes Twilight and lights the Eternal Flame, he will raze the 9 worlds. 
These Gods of the 9 worlds are greater in scale and power than you give them credit for.  
For example; Odin's father Bor was one of the beings that helped fashion the Universe itself, and Odin breathed life into humanity.

Yes, Surtur is ruler of Muspelheim, but he isn't bound there. Surtur forged Twilight from a galaxy at the core of the Universe. He has carved open dimensional rifts across the Universe. 
Asgardians such as Thor can travel from one end of the Universe to the other and travel between dimensions. So it makes no difference that Mephisto can go anywhere. 
The difference it does make though, is that unlike the Gods of the 9 worlds ... outside of his own realm, Mephisto is not nearly as powerful as he is, when in it. 
Mephisto's power has been said to increase a few hundred fold within his own realm, otherwise he is greatly depowered by comparison. 
 
Which brings me to the encounter you posted with Mephisto facing Galactus. I've just finished reading that issue on Youtube, and from what I can tell ...
Galactus was doing battle with Mephisto, within Mephisto's realm. He went to claim back the soul of his Herald. 
As the two unleashed their power, the prescence of Galactus threatened to consume Mephisto's realm, and this is when the battle ceased. 
Mephisto ended the contest, because the cost was not worth doing battle with a being who was neither good nor evil and perhaps without a soul. 
Since no victory could be gained, he conceded and told Galactus to leave with Surfer ... because he grew weary of their battle.
I would guess that the fight would not have been so evenly matched if that were not the case, and this fight took place on neutral ground. 
 
I understand that by showing Mephisto alongside various Abstracts and Gods, you are trying to show that he has a place among them in some sense. 
Although it isn't as if this cements that he is above Surtur or above Skyfather level. Dr. strange has been seen in the company of those beings.
Hela has been seen attending "meetings" with Mephisto, Blackheart, Satannish, Dormammu etc. 
In fact Hela has a very similar role in her respective realm of Niffleheim or "Hel"  - She has a pact with Death and she has challenged Mephisto for souls. 
It could be said that Mephisto shares many qualities and power on a scale to her. Hela has even gotten into Mephisto's face and threatened him with war upon his realm. 

Mephisto had tricked Eric Masterson out of his soul, in return for curing his son. He then attempted to try and bargain Masterson's soul for Thor's. 
Hela arrives and warns Mephisto of the consequences for "muscling in on what is clearly her territory" as she puts it ... while she reminds him of his place.
She threatens war upon him and his realm and doesn't appear to be the least bit concerned of the status of power you seem to be placing Mephisto at ... if he is truly above Skyfather.  
Their arguement is interrupted by the arrival of Odin, who heals the son himself and steals the soul from Mephisto - burning the contract, and leaving him with no choice but to concede to Odin.  
 
The way I view it; 
Mephisto would have a chance of defeating Surtur, while in Mephisto's realm. 
Yet Surtur would defeat Mephisto, while in Surtur's realm. Surtur would also defeat Mephisto on a neutral playing field.


       


#39 Posted by lord_oraculous016 (9282 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheGoldenOne said:

I was going to make this battle today O_O Anyway, going with Surtur here.

lol.. sorry buddy.. beat you to it.. :P

#40 Posted by MzombieX (975 posts) - - Show Bio
@MagneticShockwave
 
Just to put some scale of power to Odin and therefore Surtur, who is perhaps even greater in power; 
 
Odin is described on panel as Omnipotent.
Just a single aspect of Odin's being is known as "Infinity."  When separated from this aspect by Hela and attempting to once again contain it, Odin said;
"Though space be endless - The cosmos vast, ... they be to small for Thee and Me." As a result, Planets crumbled and Galaxies fell ... and then once again merged as one;
"Now shall I undo, that which hath been done" Odin reversed multi-galactic destruction. 

In doing battle with the God Seth, the impact of their searing energy caused a shockwave that rippled across every plane of existence.
He has unleashed power that tears at the very fabric of the Multiverse and placed untold galaxies in peril.
Odin waged battle with Seth, simultaneously, on every plane of existence. Long dead Galaxies were shattered and distant dying suns were reignited.  
Odin speaks to Thor of the Odin Force. Thor has vanquished Godly foes and reassembled Celestial bodies, yet these efforts are minimal to the true power. 
The true potential of the Odin Force is limitless.
Odin is the WORD - He is the WAY - He is the LIGHT  
 
Now granted, some of this is supported visually and some may or may not be hyperbole. 
Dramatic narration or descriptions set to invoke an image of power that is difficult to describe. Much like a couple of the Mephisto scans you posted. 
Although there are statements here that are very straightforward when describing Odin as, not merely a galaxy buster or even multi-galaxy buster, but being a multiversal threat. 
This still applies to the arguement of Surtur's scale of power, because we are all well aware that Surtur is equal or likely greater than Odin in power. 
 

#41 Posted by entropy_aegis (14123 posts) - - Show Bio

Surtur,i've seen more impressive feats from him.

#42 Posted by venomoushatred1001 (12334 posts) - - Show Bio

Surtur.

#43 Posted by Owie (3568 posts) - - Show Bio

@MzombieX:

@MagneticShockwave:

I agree with everything MZombieX said in those last two posts of his (also, great Odin scans). I agree that Mephisto is very powerful, and is often included in gatherings of the powerful of the universe. He is often represented as the main hell lord, even though that position (being more powerful than the others) is not totally clear. But his power is limited outside his realm.

In addition:

While it is a bit confusing how Asgardian vs universal powers work, since in a way when Surtur is fated to destroy the universe he is fated to destroy a universe that includes a lot of abstracts way more powerful than him like (to give just one example) the Living Tribunal, which seems unlikely. On the other hand, the Serpent in Fear Itself, who is Odin's brother and presumably not much more powerful than Odin (who is himself less powerful than Surtur), is causing havok on a multiversal plane, causing Mephisto and other demons to worry about his power--see the recent Journey into Mystery in which Mephisto seems to be worried, and Nightmare is definitely worried, about the Serpent's power. These pantheon vs universal power relationships are not always consistent, but I would say that Surtur, assumedly being more powerful than the Serpent, should thus also cause serious worry for Mephisto.

Also, when Mephisto talks about the Power Cosmic as a yapping puppy, he is talking about it in relation to the Surfer's ability to channel it. There is a big difference between the Power Cosmic as the Surfer wields it as as Galactus wields it. Even using the Surfer as an example shows Mephisto's power level. The Surfer was for a long time a consistent opponent of Mephisto. If Mephisto has to worry about Surfer (even if he beats him, it takes him some effort), then he's not able to take on Surtur on neutral ground.

I would like to emphasize that I'm interested in the Mephisto/Galactus fight--what issue is that?

#44 Posted by tron_bonne (2286 posts) - - Show Bio
@Owie: I disagree. Surtur is a galaxy buster at best, but that's not impressive. In Marvel, their comics are about conceptual power, where DC likes to emphasize more on physical power. Destroying a galaxy is physical. But that's ok because that's what Elementals do. Surtur is an elemental being. He is just like Odin. Having said that, they are physical creatures that sit slightly under the law of physics. Mephisto is not an element nor is he physical. And that's what that guy was trying to prove to you. It's like comparing a nuclear explosion vs a city of ghosts. Despite the destructive power; can the power of nuclear fission kill a city of ghost? 
#45 Posted by Killemall (18173 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666 said:

Surtur. Mephisto is barely Odin's or Dormammu's level, while Surtur is more powerfull than them. It took Odin's life and Designate's power to kill him. With TS - it is a stomp.
#46 Posted by tron_bonne (2286 posts) - - Show Bio
@Owie said:

--see the recent Journey into Mystery in which Mephisto seems to be worried, and Nightmare is definitely worried, about the Serpent's power. These pantheon vs universal power relationships are not always consistent, but I would say that Surtur, assumedly being more powerful than the Serpent, should thus also cause serious worry for Mephisto.

#627? ---- Retconned WIS. 
Read Surtur from 1963 to 2000, He's been banished quite a lot of times during those 40 years. And he was killed once. He was "one-of-the" sworn enemies of Asgard.
Read Mephisto from 1968 to 2000. You'll notice something different. Reading his issues or any other issue featuring him, you can tell off the bat that he power over physics. (Mephisto > Power Cosmic), but he acts like a game host in every one of them. 
 
The recent Journey into the Mystery is not to be taken seriously because the Fear Itself arc is completely off the charts of the 40 year history that contradicts it. For example: What is Cyttorak, Shuma, Set, Chthon and Jesus Christ standing in line to view the Throne of Satan? To be cameos???? That's what it looks like because none of them belong there.
#47 Posted by Owie (3568 posts) - - Show Bio

@tron_bonne said:

@Owie: I disagree. Surtur is a galaxy buster at best, but that's not impressive. In Marvel, their comics are about conceptual power, where DC likes to emphasize more on physical power. Destroying a galaxy is physical. But that's ok because that's what Elementals do. Surtur is an elemental being. He is just like Odin. Having said that, they are physical creatures that sit slightly under the law of physics. Mephisto is not an element nor is he physical. And that's what that guy was trying to prove to you. It's like comparing a nuclear explosion vs a city of ghosts. Despite the destructive power; can the power of nuclear fission kill a city of ghost?

I disagree. While Marvel entities have a certain conceptual power--this is especially evident in the way the InBetweener is able to battle various entities, for instance--they are also able to be beaten by pure power. Thanos, with the Infinity Gems, didn't represent any particular concept, but was able to take on pretty much anybody, no matter what concept they represented. Mephisto is definitely able to be killed/disabled/incapacitated by sheer power. As I recall, Franklin Richards zapped him a pretty good one back in the day, and Franklin has no conceptual standing. In any case I think the conceptual standing of both Surtur and Mephisto is more or less the same, in the sense that neither one of them is an true abstract, but both represent certain universal ways of being--the destructive power of fire, the tormenter of souls. So I think Surtur would be able to affect Mephisto just fine. He's not going to kill him by punching him or anything, but his power extends beyond that, especially with Twilight.

Separately, to continue your koan: If the nuclear explosion destroys the city the ghosts haunted, so their earthly resting place is gone and they are sent back to the netherworld, could that be said to have destroyed the city of ghosts?

#48 Posted by tron_bonne (2286 posts) - - Show Bio
@Killemall said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

Surtur. Mephisto is barely Odin's or Dormammu's level, while Surtur is more powerfull than them. It took Odin's life and Designate's power to kill him. With TS - it is a stomp.
This is the power grid: 
 
Dormammu > Mephisto/Galactus > Surtur/Odin
#49 Posted by Killemall (18173 posts) - - Show Bio

@tron_bonne said:

@Killemall said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

Surtur. Mephisto is barely Odin's or Dormammu's level, while Surtur is more powerfull than them. It took Odin's life and Designate's power to kill him. With TS - it is a stomp.
This is the power grid: Dormammu > Mephisto/Galactus > Surtur/Odin

I dont think Mephisto is any close to Galactus level outside his relm, within his relm though mephisto i think is more powerful then Galactus. After all mephisto has been defeated by Thor when they fought on Earth, was he not? how then can u assume mephisto as more powerful then Odin or surtur

#50 Posted by tron_bonne (2286 posts) - - Show Bio
@Killemall said:

I dont think Mephisto is any close to Galactus level outside his relm, within his relm though mephisto i think is more powerful then Galactus. After all mephisto has been defeated by Thor when they fought on Earth, was he not? how then can u assume mephisto as more powerful then Odin or surtur

Mephisto loses because of CIS. That is within his character. Mephisto can destroy all of Asgard if he wanted to, but he doesn't because that is not within his goal. Mephisto is the scavenger of Death. He fishes for souls before they die. So to speak, he is Death's rival. 
He needs to keep people alive so that he can take their souls while they live because if they die --------- They belong to Death!