MCU: Iron Man vs Captain America and Winter Soldier

@thesilentripper: It really is. Tony tends to take his fights to CQC.

Look at him vs Iron Monger, Whiplash, War Machine, Thor, Ultron. He took all of these fights H2H. He doesn't just hover and spam against individual threats.

As well as that, we have an onscreen example of what Cap would do to a hovering Iron Man, and thats launch his shield at it. Now, as its in character it won't be with enough force to bisect it, but it will be enough to take him down.

Keep telling yourself that.

@thesilentripper: A di*k? Yeah maybe. A cold blooded murderer who'd kill his friend, who is still at this point not evil and hasn't completely betrayed him? Not as likely.

This is the guy who was willing to sacrifice himself more than once. They've come to blows before and he didn't insta kill Steve.

@spector_rand: If you are basing this fight on prior feats we have already seen then this match is spite and should be locked.

@spector_rand:

Captain America has hung with an Iron Man level being before.

Define 'Iron Man' level beings, because it seems everyone is forgetting (or did not pay proper attention to) how Ultron's first fight with Tony went... He got two-shotted:

He took his close and ranged attacks, as well showing he can damage Tony's suit with Vibranium.

Okay, people need to calm down with this, it's like people are forgetting what those said attacks are fully capable of (melting through steel underwater at low concentrated levels, blasting holes through metal and tanks). Same situation with Thor; when Thor hits regular human beings, they don't go splat for the same reason here - he's not hitting them with the full potential of the said attack.

He was able to outskill Ultron and is physicals enabled him to do so.

Sure, but that was really all he could do to that version of Ultron. Literally everything he did to Ultron was ineffective against him and literally everyone forgets this due to the extreme hatred towards the portrayal of the character.

His striking is almost equal to Tony's if we look at their impacts on regular humans (Tony of course has the advantage, but it's close).

Wait, what, Steve can punch through Chobham armour now?

We saw with Killian that a skilled/strong opponent can easily outmaneuver and dominate Tony. Yes Killian had the advantage of the heated hands

You really can't use Tony's featless, prototype suits as an example for this, you saw how long it took for Killian to get into the WM suit, vs the featless ones? Killian was breaking his bones trading blows with those suits and had regenerative abilities to heal almost any damages.

we have on screen depiction of Cap's shield literally one shotting Stark suits.

When did this happen?

As well as that, you have Cap's insane level of damage soak. He has on screen tanked one of Tony's uni beam shots and still managed to send Tony flying with a single strike.

Unibeam? The one capable of one-shotting and punting holes through Extremis thugs and metal along the way? That one?

And thats just Cap. Winter Soldier is also involved here, with whatever you deem as stadard equipment. His bionic arm was shown to be stronger than Cap, and he was just as skilled.

It's still too early to make this types of thread based on what we've seen in he trailer so far. I'm expecting that last scene to be very similar to one of those moments where the more powerful character looks like he's being overwhelmed, but then the momentum just suddenly shifts...

Kinda like this one:

The two of them together can definitely pose a threat to an in character Iron Man, especially in the battlefield conditions here.

Meh, I still fail to see it, plus we're still missing A LOT of context. Based on previous feats, Iron Man should mop the floor with them, but this is a new suit with new prowess/abilities so we're just gonna have to wait and see.

Ok what exactly did I say there that you disagree with?

• You really cannot know my intentions.
• Making a DCEU: Batman VS Superman thread is totally different to this. Batman has no feats.
• I am an active user on this site and I do admit when I'm wrong. Read my CaV's or other debates I've had.

You haven't countered any of the points brought up in regards to this debate. If your so sure Tony tales this then prove it. Thats what the site is for, to debate opinions and learn.

@spector_rand: haha I´m not saying he is going to spam against individual threads

Think about it as an strategical shot, nothing else.

@citizensentry: Which in Character feat/weapon or showing actually leads you to believe that

Cap has demonstrated he can survive repulsor blasts, fight and damage Iron man level opponents and is extremely skilled.

With that said, seriously? Where are you getting this stomp nonsense from? He's fighting in an arena that greatly disadvantages him, against two opponents with great synergy and the means to damage/avoid him.

So again.

How the hell is this a stomp?

Stark can simply remote control an army of his suits, captain america and winter soldier would simple put up a short lived resistance for like 5 - 10 mins or so then it becomes a stomp

this seems brilliant, and on character.

unless they say you his suits aren´t standard equipment

@rudebomberboy01:

Define 'Iron Man' level beings, because it seems everyone is forgetting (or did not pay proper attention to) how Ultron's first fight with Tony went... He got two-shotted:

A lot of that fight is missing from where you linked. Prior to that they engaged in H2H and were fighting equally. Ultron was fighting with an objective, as he clearly states at the end. Once said objective was done, the fight didn't matter anymore. He states this on screen and he definitely wasn't two shotted.

Okay, people need to calm down with this, it's like people are forgetting what those said attacks are fully capable of (melting through steel underwater at low concentrated levels, blasting holes through metal and tanks). Same situation with Thor; when Thor hits regular human beings, they don't go splat for the same reason here - he's not hitting them with the full potential of the said attack.

When did the repulser tech melt blast a hole in a tank?

Repulsers have had a consistent portrayal from day one of the MCU, and thats hitting and KO'ing regular humans but not killing them. Cap tanking them isn't a stretch, especially when he's done it.

Sure, but that was really all he could do to that version of Ultron. Literally everything he did to Ultron was ineffective against him and literally everyone forgets this due to the extreme hatred towards the portrayal of the character.

I actually really like Ultron.

The fact still stands, he was tanking his shots, out skilling him AND damaged him with the shield. What you are saying would be true if Ultron proceeded to beat Steve, but he didn't.

Wait, what, Tony can punch through Chobham armour now?

I don't know what that means haha.

Iron Man does have the better striking though.

You really can't use Tony's featless, prototype suits as an example for this, you saw how long it took for Killian to get into the WM suit, vs the featless ones? Killian was breaking his bones trading blows with those suits and had regenerative abilities to heal almost any damages.

Only one suit was stated to be a prototype. We don't know if the others were or not.

The difference between the War Machine suit was that he was trying not to damage it. He was slowly heating it so Rhodey was forced to come out. With the others, he was applying carless force as he wasn't trying to preserve the suit.

And yeah, he was directly overpowered when he matched him strength to strength, but Killian isn't as strong or as skilled as Cap, couldn't block Tony's strikes like Cap can and Killian still used skill to dominate.

When did this happen?

Unibeam? The one capable of one-shotting and punting holes through Extremis thugs and metal along the way? That one?

Yep the same one and thats after tanking another repulser blast.

It's still too early to make this types of thread based on what we've seen in he trailer so far. I'm expecting that last scene to be very similar to one of those moments where the more powerful character looks like he's being overwhelmed, but then the momentum just suddenly shifts...

I reall am not basing it off that one fight. Their combined feats and Tony's combat history make this a good fight as it is.

Meh, I still fail to see it, plus we're still missing A LOT of context. Based on previous feats, Iron Man should mop the floor with them, but this is a new suit with new prowess/abilities so we're just gonna have to wait and see.

Disagree. If you want I can post the feats to prove it?

@thesilentripper: Iron man is a natural show off, of course remote controlling suits is on character. Also, the equipment here isnt the suits but the remote control attached to his glove.

^ This happens

People are being unfair to Bucky and Steve here.

Cap is Tony's friend and a hero - he's not just going to blow him to bits with a wave of missiles or cut him in two with a laser.

Cap and Bucky on the other hand, are soldiers, he might like Tony, but to get the mission done they will go all out and give it their all to put him down.

Then when you factor in Bucky and Steve's teamwork, superior tactical intelligence, the fact that one has an arm strong enough to mess up the Iron Man suit (as shown in the trailer), the other an indestructible shield, that both Bucky and Steve are much faster, more skilled and more agile as well as the compactness of the battle environment which makes it difficult for Tony to get out of reach... you have a solid fight.

@spector_rand:

A lot of that fight is missing from where you linked. Prior to that they engaged in H2H and were fighting equally.

No, not really, the entire video is up there for anyone to see. Ultron blasts Tony to no effect and both started grappling and throwing each other around. Apart from that, Tony didn't tag Ultron with anything and the times Tony actually landed hits, they were critical - hence why I said Ultron got two-shotted, which he did.

Ultron was fighting with an objective, as he clearly states at the end. Once said objective was done, the fight didn't matter anymore. He states this on screen and he definitely wasn't two shotted.

He clearly was when those were the only times Tony tagged him with... anything.

When did the repulser tech melt blast a hole in a tank?

In the canon comics, along with the Hammer Drones in Iron Man 2 which are made out of the same material -- Chobham Armour.

Here

Repulsers have had a consistent portrayal from day one of the MCU, and thats hitting and KO'ing regular humans but not killing them. Cap tanking them isn't a stretch, especially when he's done it.

No, not really:

The fact still stands, he was tanking his shots, out skilling him AND damaged him with the shield. What you are saying would be true if Ultron proceeded to beat Steve, but he didn't.

He, kinda was:

Iron Man does have the better striking though.

Yes he does, and Steve's striking feats are nowhere 'close' to his.

Only one suit was stated to be a prototype. We don't know if the others were or not.

My point about those suits being featlless still stands.

The difference between the War Machine suit was that he was trying not to damage it. He was slowly heating it so Rhodey was forced to come out. With the others, he was applying carless force as he wasn't trying to preserve the suit.

It's quite the opposite as Killian explicitly states he didn't care about the damages done to the suit as it could be 'fixed' by the other Extremis guys in there

And yeah, he was directly overpowered when he matched him strength to strength, but Killian isn't as strong or as skilled as Cap, couldn't block Tony's strikes like Cap can and Killian still used skill to dominate.

Like I said before, you can't use that instance as an example here. Those suits were extremely weak - blowing up from just hitting things at high speeds.

Yep the same one and thats after tanking another repulser blast.

-__-

Tony wasn't trying to kill Steve there, this is what a Tony trying to kill someone looks like:

And he's also blasted holes through Chobham armour with the said repulsor beams.

I reall am not basing it off that one fight. Their combined feats and Tony's combat history make this a good fight as it is.

Disagree. If you want I can post the feats to prove it?

Really dood? I'm disappointed. Iron Man has tanked F-22 bullets, tank shells + the massive impact from crashing to the ground at high speeds, missiles upon missiles upon missiles, was able to hold his own against Thor (albeit amped (offensive output only)), bulrushing opponents through multiple layers of concrete, lifted helicopters, threw cars/tanks etc.

Realistically speaking, Tony should wreck them, but that will not be entertaining to see, so of course the story line will find a way to make it more balanced than it is right now.

I'm guessing they' are going to ground Iron Man in some way, and get rid of some of his more dangerous weapons.

Okay viners, enough of arguements.

Of course plot and morals can hold Tony back.

Well, in Civil War, the directors Russo brothers should have weaken and nerf Iron Man, so its a very fair match up. Because if Iron Man was not nerfed, he will curbstomp Cap and Bucky, and the film's running time would have been like 15-30 mins, not 2 hours-ish. And Iron Man held his own against Thor in the first Avengers on Mark 6 armor, which is outdated and obsolete. The armor Tony wears on this movie is the Mark 46, thats 5 versions better than Mark 6 (not counting Iron Legion). The track record proves Tony Stark is not weak. Cap and Bucky didnt even dent Iron Man's armor.

If you look at Tony's latest armor, there are several line-shaped repulsor like dots placed around Tony's armor, which resembles the Bleeding Edge Armor from the comics, which is Tony's strongest armor, stronger than Hulkbuster in comics. In the MCU versions, Hulkbuster Veronica is shown to beat Hulk in AoU, and thats weaker than Bleeding Edge as stated earlier. Heck, comic Bleeding Edge was able to beat Amped comic Red Hulk.

This is Marvel's Batman v Superman, and these two DC heroes are fighting and pitting each other, whereas in straight-up fight Superman curbstomps Batman. But in Dawn of Justice movie itself, Superman had big trouble taking down Batman, they do seem equal.

Wait until Infinity War Part 1 comes, and Tony is back to normal.

If this wasnt in Civil War, then Iron Man wins aka curbstomp.

@roberto alvarenga: what's gg mean?

PIS that they were beating him in the trailer . Iron Man wins

@kcminato: Agree 100%. This was PIS. Plus Iron Man was holding back. He does not want to kill Cap and Bucky. If he use his repulsors and missiles etc, then Cap and Bucky should have been easily good as dead. He isnt even fighting two world war veterans. And yeah, due to the plot in fact.

@huthimamwa: Good game

Whatever.

@buildhare:

What feats has Iron Man shown that make this a spite match?

Walking off getting hit by a tank shell,

outspeeding Military jets,

stalemating Thor (Yes Thor was uninjured and Iron Man's suit was heavily damaged but no Victor was shown).

Tanking hits from War Machine

What Iron Man level opponents has Captain America damaged? Ultron? LOL.

So explain how this isn't a stomp.

@monsterstomp: Well, ignore him, hes just a Captain America fanboy who dislikes Iron Man much.

@adriusus: @monsterstomp:OMG I am not a Captain America fanboy. I love the MCU and I love Iron Man. Hell I made his respect thread!!

I'm not even saying Cap and WS win, I'm just saying this isn't spite.

You started this by insulting me.

who said anything about iron man having to kill him? beating both CA and WS to the point where they cant even move qualifies as a win.

@spector_rand: Youre like lowballing Iron Man. Again, I think this is the bleeding edge armor, which is Tony's most powerful armor. And Iron Man has lot of weapons that can go throught Cap's shield.

Well, im sorry, I thought you are Cap fanboy who hates Iron Man. Apologies.

Agreed. I hate it when writers nerf a character just so another character can have a shot at beating them.

@spector_rand: Mate, I've been trying to drop this two posts ago. I just disagree that your intentions are what you call it. I just don't believe you.

Leave it at that.

@rbt: Agree too.

@monsterstomp: Why would you not believe me? If I was a user who did stuff like this consistently, then yeah sure. But look at my post history.

You shouldn't go around insulting users and then expect them not to defend themselves.

@spector_rand: I didn't insult you. I said don't be a punk. I never called you one :)

@monsterstomp: I was referring to the locking and muting comment. But if that wasn't your intention then I guess this has all been a miscommunication haha.

Cap cant handle tony , thats just science.

Morals on cap just gets KOed and winter soldier gets koed or killed.

What weapons does Tony have in his arsenal that can damage/destroy Vibranium?

Hawkeye solos

@gxrevolution96: Well, in Mark 45 armor, he was able to melt the outer vibranium layer of Ultron using his MK45 repulsors.

Yes, when his beam was combined with the Mind Gem and abd Thor's lightning

@spector_rand:

30m x 30m x 30m is a huge space, about the same ground area as two NBA sized basketball courts side by side and extending vertically for ten stories. Given that much room, Iron Man should absolutely dominate this fight from 100 ft in the air.

Obviously that didn't happen in the trailer which could mean several things:

1) Iron Man suit is damaged or nerfed and incapable of flight, thus not standard gear. Incidentally, the fight area is not nearly as large as specified. Clearly there's a lot of context missing from a 3 second clip.

2) Tony Stark is a tactical idiot who doesn't realize how big an advantage flight is. I think that would fall under the umbrella of PIS.

3) Tony Stark doesn't want to fight and isn't trying to win. Maybe that's what some posters would call morals on, but I think it's different. Iron Man could win a physical fight trivially, but he doesn't care about a physical fight because the root of conflict is ideological. Best analogue I can think of is Superman vs Batman in TDKR.

We won't know for sure how this plays out in the movie until May. My guess is (1) coupled with hints of (3). As for the stipulated fight in this thread? Iron Man wins 8 days a week.

Tony's armor probably got hacked in that fight in the trailer...

@gxrevolution96: Thor's mjolnir cant damage vibranium, Im sure that if only Vision's stone is present during the damaging of Vibranium Ultron, it would take much longer without Tony's repulsors at it.

Cap and Bucky need a heavy dose of plot, prep, and/or environmental advantage to even stand a chance.

QFT

@buildhare: well said! I honestly couldn't have said that better... Steve is undoubtably capable of taking on Tony

Iron Man stomps

I was going to say just this. Not to mention it was a later Ultron than the one Tony fought, as each seemed to get progressively more powerful, so it was at least the level of Ultron who went toe to toe with Iron Man.

Iron Man only didn't get completely destroyed by Thor because his suit became overcharged to 400% power, and that still didn't help much as Thor manhandled him. and didn't have a scratch on him.

Then you factor it that despite Steve's great skill and awesome physicality (without adding in a few statement feats from AoS like Steve moving the giant bulldozer across a football field in like 7 seconds), Bucky appeared to be an even better fighter than Steve in Winter Solider (albeit physically weaker...but still strong enough to kick a grown man off his feat and into the air and into a jet engine) and a metal arm that hits harder than Steve does?

I think the team has the chops for this, Iron Man is not all that honestly.

Bucky gonna rip that arc reactor heart out like it's Mortal Kombat.

Mjolnir cannot damage the vibranium with physcal attacks but lightning is another case since it is an energy based attack. Regradless, Tony's repulsor beam alone did not damage it.

The responses in this thread are giving me cancer. I might have to address some of them when I have free time.

Iron Man should stomp. I guarantee that there will be some sort of plot device that allows Steve and Bucky to do that well against Tony.

As someone said earlier, this is Marvels' version of Superman vs Batman. Under normal circumstances, Superman should dominate Batman in every single way imaginable, but plot and storyline always proves otherwise. I'm expecting the same BS here.

Iron Man stomps. As soon as he starts flying, the fight is over