Rules
- MCU Antman
- Amazing movie Spiderman
- Spiderman has webs
- Antman has his suit and discs
- No spidersense
- winner by KO
Round 1
Morals on
Round 2
Morals off
Morals on
Morals off
I feel Peter's spider senses would help him to figure out what's up with Ant-Man's powers not to mention his insane reaction time should would make him difficult for Scott to hit. I'd give it to Spidey unless Ant-Man uses his discs.
EDIT:
Just noticed no spider sense. Still think Peter should win because of superior stats and reaction time.
I feel like Ant man takes this, primarily because Spider-Man isn't allowed his spider sense. Without it, Spidey isn't nearly as efficient at dodging Scott's attacks, which means that Ant man can just unleash the punishment on Spider-Man. Not to mention that, like M_Man stated, the discs can give Lang a fairly large advantage in the fight.
Without Spider Sense, Spider-Man is essentially a really agile Captain America. But you can't dodge what you can't see, and webs aren't Omni-directional.....
Ant Man both rounds, stomps round 2
@thetruthiii: In Amazing Spider-Man 2, Peter adjusts his shooters to create a net to catch a taxi(the webs shoot out towards the sides and catches handrails). Don't know if that's what you meant by "omni-directional", but there is that.
Pete Rd 1. Odd's are he will eventually land a hit, even without his spider sense. Lang doesn't have the output to drop Parker.
Rd 2 goes to Lang. Pete dies terribly via shrink disk.
@koshi_waza88 I wouldn't bother with the Hyperbole Hope was talking. Lang doesn't have the feats to back it up, and she isn't the person who should be commenting on it anyhow.
Has anyone done the maths for how hard movie Antman can hit ? she started saying it then stops i don't remember the numbers... she did say he could possible kill someone with a punch right ?
All I remember is Hank saying Ants carry 50 times their size and Antman throwing toy trains when he was in scale with the train
Has anyone done the maths for how hard movie Antman can hit ? she started saying it then stops i don't remember the numbers... she did say he could possible kill someone with a punch right ?
She said he was essentially like a bullet, where all the force of his punch at normal size is compressed into one hundredth the size of his fist. So if he hit to hard, he could kill them, too soft it'd be a love tap.
@risingbean: How would it be taken as hyperbole? She was the one coaching him and she was just giving him straight up info on what he could do? How wouldn't she be the one to speak on it? She was the one coaching him and knew the Antman suit inside and out. She even knew how to control ants using the helmet.
@lukehero: I'd take it as hyperbole because until Cross' company shrunk the goat midway through the movie, nobody had done a successful size shift since Pym. Seeing as Pym wouldn't let his daughter play until the stinger at the end of the movie, she has neither the technical knowledge or the firsthand experience to make definitive comments.
Secondly by feats Lang didn't do any damage to the bad guys a normal sized guy couldn't do.
Round 1: Spidey with moderate diffculty
Round 2: Scott wins via disks
Ant-Man is not taking the first round, he is just a normal human while Spider-Man is enhanced in every single aspect, Peter can probably knock out Scott with a single punch, not to mention Scott can´t really do any damage to Peter considering he tanked lightning from a guy that was casually destroying buildings with those same lightnings.
If anyone thinks otherwise, just tag me and explain, I am open to debate this matter, the only way Scott is winning is via disks, otherwise Peter is just too agile and strong for him.
Round 1: Spidey with moderate diffculty
Round 2: Scott wins via disks
@thor_parker82: while I agree with your assessment. i dont see scott getting knocked out in hit. he survived quite a few falls even while shrunk. he can def take a few hits. my argument for ant man winning aside from discs. is like falcon he wont seem scott coming half the time. spidey tanked electric damage yes but that doesnt equate to physical punches.
@thor_parker82: while I agree with your assessment. i dont see scott getting knocked out in hit. he survived quite a few falls even while shrunk. he can def take a few hits. my argument for ant man winning aside from discs. is like falcon he wont seem scott coming half the time. spidey tanked electric damage yes but that doesnt equate to physical punches.
Ha tanked getting punched by Lizard several times, not to mention that some occassions when Electro used lightning on Peter, he usually ended up crashing in a wall or just went right at the floor, which is the same as physical damage. Spidey´s stats are superhuman, and really good stats, he shrugged of lighting that destroyed buildings as they were made of paper, he catched a car mid air, he stopped a bus full of people from turning upside down, Peter is just too strong and agile, he may not beat Scott with just one hit, but he definitely doesn´t need more than 5-7 hits considering his vast superhuman strength and striking power.
@risingbean: She was already familiar with the tech and had to have used it other wise how did she control the ants without practice? Her Dad just didn't want her using the suit long term which is why he said no to her because long term repeated use of the tech changes your brain chemistry.
By feats Batman doesn't know every matrial art since we've never seen him on panel actually studying litterelly every martial art known to man, same thing goes for Iron Fist and Black Panther and Wolverine and whoever else.
Some things have to be accepted by statements unless proven other wise. Also she told him to hold back and Lang wasn't some stone cold killer. Only people he fought were human, including Falcon. If he needed to increase the strength of his punches because his first few wouldn't do diddly to Spiderman, then he could.
@thor_parker82: i completely agree. Spidey is capable of putting down antman in a few hits. However, spidey wont see antman coming. And it wont take scort long to figure out regular punches dont work. He will either punch harder or resort to discs.
@lukehero: Hope may be familiar with the tech, the same way I'm familiar with helicoptors; vicariously.
Call it a plot hole, but it's implied Hope was never allowed to use the suits. My best guess with the ants is just that Hope is driven and was able to pull out an ace.
Until feats mesh up with statements, I'm inclined to disagree with Hope, particularly because things like fighting are not easy to gauge. Fighters don't go "Well I need to hit with 63% power because if I hit with 64% I'll kill the guy and 62% will feel like a warm breeze. People can pull punches but not to the extreme Hope implied, and a guy like Lang who was nowhere near being a good fighter, the odds are worse. There should have been a lot of hits where Lang pulled his punch too much and had no effect, or alternately where he punctured flesh by hitting too hard. Since neither happened, I'm inclined to believe Hope was talking out of her ass.
Hope may be familiar with the tech, the same way I'm familiar with helicoptors; vicariously.
:/
Call it a plot hole, but it's implied Hope was never allowed to use the suits. My best guess with the ants is just that Hope is driven and was able to pull out an ace.
There is no way, that doesn't even make sense. You clearly have to learn how to use the suits. He just didn't want her to use it.
Until feats mesh up with statements, I'm inclined to disagree with Hope, particularly because things like fighting are not easy to gauge. Fighters don't go "Well I need to hit with 63% power because if I hit with 64% I'll kill the guy and 62% will feel like a warm breeze.
Based on that train of thought anytime any 100 toner hits a humanbeing they should go splat.
People can pull punches but not to the extreme Hope implied, and a guy like Lang who was nowhere near being a good fighter, the odds are worse
Again Multi Tonners should rank up a high body count including Smallvilles superman. Since he was clearly a noob and didn't know how to fight in the first few seasons, anytime he hit a human they should go splat. (Or, ding ding..he and other heroes hold back)
There should have been a lot of hits where Lang pulled his punch too much and had no effect, or alternately where he punctured flesh by hitting too hard. Since neither happened, I'm inclined to believe Hope was talking out of her ass.
No. Even MCU Captain America who punched through submarine glass has the feats to crush people's skulls doesn't. Same thing goes for DC Movie Faora. They simply aren't going to show characters in a PG13 movie doing that. Antman simply at least tried to explain it away why someone with superstrength wasn't doing it. Movies like MOS and Captain America just ignore it, at least Antman tried to give a reason and said had hope tell him to hold back. If you need another example of writer WIS out of convenience let's look at CW Mirakuru Roy. Dude casually broke Ollie's leg, but when he b*** slapped Sin he barely left a mark on her. She doesn't have any durability feats or reason even a casual slap shouldn't have broken her jaw. I've seen domestic violence videos where men have slapped women and left more damage then he left on Sin. It's just WIS and if we stretch it too far and run with it in battle logic it gets into ability/feat denial. If we go the direction of your thought process "I can say LOL, Faora's punches aren't ****", because she didn't knock off the heads of humans when she hit them despite they fact she has striking power that can hurt MOS.
EDIT:
Fighters don't go "Well I need to hit with 63% power because if I hit with 64% I'll kill the guy and 62% will feel like a warm breeze.
People can pull punches but not to the extreme Hope implied, and a guy like Lang who was nowhere near being a good fighter, the odds are worse
Just to add a bit more: If what you are saying is true here then where is the Large Body count for Batman? If a fighter doesn't say I better hold back or can't pull punches to an extreme degree. Then Batman should have murdered every normal human he's ever beat up. Cause Batman has punches that cracked Bazooka proof glass and have knocked around multi tonners.
Round 1: Spidey with moderate diffculty
Round 2: Scott wins via disks
@thor_parker82: i completely agree. Spidey is capable of putting down antman in a few hits. However, spidey wont see antman coming. And it wont take scort long to figure out regular punches dont work. He will either punch harder or resort to discs.
I would agree with that if Scott kept ant sized and fought like that, but as we saw in his fight against Falcon, Scott´s style of fighting is changing between normal size and ant size, and Falcon managed to punch him a few times and dodge some of his attacks, and that´s when I see Ant-Man losing, the moment he changes to his normal size he is going to get beaten by Spider-Man quite easily given his reflexes and speed are much better than anyone Scott has faced.
@thor_parker82: i completely agree. Spidey is capable of putting down antman in a few hits. However, spidey wont see antman coming. And it wont take scort long to figure out regular punches dont work. He will either punch harder or resort to discs.
I would agree with that if Scott kept ant sized and fought like that, but as we saw in his fight against Falcon, Scott´s style of fighting is changing between normal size and ant size, and Falcon managed to punch him a few times and dodge some of his attacks, and that´s when I see Ant-Man losing, the moment he changes to his normal size he is going to get beaten by Spider-Man quite easily given his reflexes and speed are much better than anyone Scott has faced.
fair enough, I can agree to that. However, in the fight with falcon. we saw he adapted to that. and went for falcon's suit. spidey doesnt have a suit, but the point being antman adapted to him getting punched around in that fighting style and changed up mid fight. Scott either via prison fighting and some of hope's training is implied to be capable of adjusting his combat style mid fight. I see spidey getting hit with a disk and shrinking and during that time getting owned by scott. Another point is that scott at that point wasn't through off by people with powers. where as spidey will likely be caught off guard by the shrinking tech.
@thor_parker82: i completely agree. Spidey is capable of putting down antman in a few hits. However, spidey wont see antman coming. And it wont take scort long to figure out regular punches dont work. He will either punch harder or resort to discs.
I would agree with that if Scott kept ant sized and fought like that, but as we saw in his fight against Falcon, Scott´s style of fighting is changing between normal size and ant size, and Falcon managed to punch him a few times and dodge some of his attacks, and that´s when I see Ant-Man losing, the moment he changes to his normal size he is going to get beaten by Spider-Man quite easily given his reflexes and speed are much better than anyone Scott has faced.
fair enough, I can agree to that. However, in the fight with falcon. we saw he adapted to that. and went for falcon's suit. spidey doesnt have a suit, but the point being antman adapted to him getting punched around in that fighting style and changed up mid fight. Scott either via prison fighting and some of hope's training is implied to be capable of adjusting his combat style mid fight. I see spidey getting hit with a disk and shrinking and during that time getting owned by scott. Another point is that scott at that point wasn't through off by people with powers. where as spidey will likely be caught off guard by the shrinking tech.
If Spidey got shrinked to Scott´s size, then he wouldn´t have a problem seeing him anymore, and given his superhuman strength, the only one getting owned is Ant-Man, but I can partially agree with the other things you said, but I just don´t see Scott winning if he doesn´t shrink Spidey to subatomic level.
@thor_parker82: i think his ants would come into play at that level as well.
But I will agree to it being a close battle.
Ant man can totally just sneak up on him. I knwo this is the movie versions, but when spider-man loses his spider sense on comics, or has them negated, he has trouble with full sized people, and that's an experienced one. One the size of an ant? you could have amazing reaction time, but how do you even see that coming.....? He would just flail around and hope for the best..
@thetruthiii: In Amazing Spider-Man 2, Peter adjusts his shooters to create a net to catch a taxi(the webs shoot out towards the sides and catches handrails). Don't know if that's what you meant by "omni-directional", but there is that.
Yeah, but taxis are big. Ant-Man is not, and could easily escape through any little hole in Parker's webbing. Or, he could cut through it with his shrink disc. Either way, there's no way Peter is tagging Lang except with dumb luck. And that's assuming he doesn't get KOed first.
Peter takes both rounds 10/10
Ant-Man hasn't the damage Output to hurt Spidey and Spideys reflexes are crazy good, add his strength which is on par with Iron Man and you have the winner.
The outcome would be different if Win would also be by killing the opponent. Scott just would have to hit with a Disc.
:/
There is no way, that doesn't even make sense. You clearly have to learn how to use the suits. He just didn't want her to use it.
Based on that train of thought anytime any 100 toner hits a humanbeing they should go splat.
Again Multi Tonners should rank up a high body count including Smallvilles superman. Since he was clearly a noob and didn't know how to fight in the first few seasons, anytime he hit a human they should go splat. (Or, ding ding..he and other heroes hold back)
Just to add a bit more: If what you are saying is true here then where is the Large Body count for Batman? If a fighter doesn't say I better hold back or can't pull punches to an extreme degree. Then Batman should have murdered every normal human he's ever beat up. Cause Batman has punches that cracked Bazooka proof glass and have knocked around multi tonners.
:D
I'd possibly call it a plot hole then. That or speculate until it makes sense because it's implied Pym has had the suits/particles stored away and didn't bring them out for anybody until Cross came to the ability to do height reductions. My best guess based on that is that Hope had "borrowed" the hearing aid device because Pym kept that. Remember over the years he became known for his ant servants so he didn't get rid of/hide the ant control. Because she knows how to use that doesn't mean she knows about the Pym Particles.
I'm not arguing that. 100 tonners should screw up mundane people. Sorta like what Hulk did to Blonskey (and he was suped up.) Hell, Hulk crushes a Chitauri head like a grape, blood bursting out. It's a blink and you miss it thing, but he did. Also the old Superman movies dealt with this by pretty much not having Clark punch humans.
Even if people are not being exploded, it's not hard to have people getting launched and being dead. For all we know Captain America was killing most of his fodder enemies. If not I'm sure they were hurt pretty bad. I'm sure the men Faora hit are considered dead. If not, that is more fuel for the fire in MCU/MOS debates.
About Sin, I dunno. It sounds like inconsistency. About comic Batman, the fact he can break "bazooka proof" glass is PIS enough. Unless he is pulling a Karnak and hitting the weakest shatterpoint, in which case it's not strength that has him punching out of his class, it's technique.
I think Spidey takes Round 1, considering Falcon was holding his own against Lang. Sooner or later,he'd land a hit. Ant-Man wins in Round 2 due to the disks.
@ninjawarrior268: Antman beat Falcon, an Avenger
No spidey sense
So . . . Yup Antman takes it
Which is hard
Sorry, Spider-Man
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