#201 Edited by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (20427 posts) - - Show Bio

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek said:

Perfect, this is what I was arguing, @yourneighborhoodcomicgeek was multiplying his original stats (which are 300% enhanced) to the factor of 5 that the suit gives you.

I never multiplied the original stats. I said that and a factor of five with MJOLNIR on would easily be over 15 times the average reaction speed of a normal human.

Where did you get the numbers for reaction speed being three times that of a normal human?

"Three hundred percent increase in subject reflexes". Since they were normal humans before the augmentations, I'd be safe to assume that it is three times a normal human's reflexes.

#202 Edited by Deranged Midget (17854 posts) - - Show Bio

@cable_extreme said:

The armor has a set enhancement that is a factor of 5 of a normal human.

Here's the text version.

You even brought up the maker of the suit saying that the enhancements cannot be changed. So why would it enhance you more than a normal human? It is not relative to the wearer since their abilities do not change the suits enhancements.

As for the math part, it is 800%, I was not aware I put 700%, forgive me.

If you provide proof for the underlined statement, Ill admit to you being correct, however, based on these two scans, and the scan that you provided about the armor not being able to change, I am saying his enhancements are at 800%. Reason being is the armor enhances you by a factor of 5 of that of a "normal human" which equates to 500% and his enhancements that add onto 500% for 300%.

Mate I'm sorry, but at this point, it honestly seems like you are trying to ignore the points I've brought up and seem pretty keen to discern facts that simply cannot be proven otherwise.

The suit provides an enhancement of a factor of five, which in mathematical terms is a multiplier of the number of five. Halsey stated that the reaction time could not be altered and the suit itself could not be powered down. I don't know why you keep referring to the point of "normal humans", it literally has no play here. To assume that number equates to 500% would be to assume that every "normal" human's reflexes are perfect at 100%, which is absolutely false on top of misguided because what exactly would be the comparison? That would be making the assumption that the humans specimens are literally perfect in terms of reaction time/reflexes, which kind of negates the entire purpose of "normal" or "average". If it was a 500% increase, you would think that Halsey would've mentioned that rather than simply stating " a factor of five".

And again, the MJOLNIR armour was built for "normal" humans and military personnel to pilot, the only problem being that their reaction time wasn't fast enough nor was their musculature and skeletal structure strong enough to withstand the movements. Even when John was first fitted in the suit, he had troubles adjusting to it's speed at first but once he became aware of it's capabilities, it was like second nature to him and the other Spartans, which even Halsey couldn't predict:

You do. Your enhanced musculature and the metal and ceramic layers that have been bonded to your skeleton should be enough to allow you to harness the armor's power.

John's own augmented capabilities are what allowed him to push the armour beyond the limits of any normal human, as seen with the obstacle course John ran to test the armour itself in which he ran over half a kilometre in seventeen seconds flat AFTER surviving the Scorpion missile explosion, ripping his achilles tendon in the process and basically allowing him to deflect a missile in mid-air due to his own augmentations coupled with what MJOLNIR provided him with. His enhanced muscular and skeletal structure allowed him to simply harness the armour, as Halsey stated, and from there his capabilities were even further enhanced.

That alone kind of contradict your statements that the armour isn't relative to the wearer's ability as a "normal" human would have never been able to push those limits considering that Kelly, the fastest Spartan-II, was even quicker in MJOLNIR armour than the others and in sparring sessions, she's dwarfed their speed and made them appear as if they were moving slower in comparison to herself.

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#203 Posted by Cable_Extreme (9702 posts) - - Show Bio

@deranged_midget:

Mate I'm sorry, but at this point, it honestly seems like you are trying to ignore the points I've brought up and seem pretty keen to discern facts that simply cannot be proven otherwise.

The suit provides an enhancement of a factor of five, which in mathematical terms is a multiplier of the number of five. Halsey stated that the reaction time could not be altered and the suit itself could not be powered down. I don't know why you keep referring to the point of "normal humans", it literally has no play here. To assume that number equates to 500% would be to assume that every "normal" human's reflexes are perfect at 100%, which is absolutely false on top of misguided because what exactly would be the comparison? That would be making the assumption that the humans specimens are literally perfect in terms of reaction time/reflexes, which kind of negates the entire purpose of "normal" or "average". If it was a 500% increase, you would think that Halsey would've mentioned that rather than simply stating " a factor of five".

And again, the MJOLNIR armour was built for "normal" humans and military personnel to pilot, the only problem being that their reaction time wasn't fast enough nor was their musculature and skeletal structure strong enough to withstand the movements. Even when John was first fitted in the suit, he had troubles adjusting to it's speed at first but once he became aware of it's capabilities, it was like second nature to him and the other Spartans, which even Halsey couldn't predict:

You do. Your enhanced musculature and the metal and ceramic layers that have been bonded to your skeleton should be enough to allow you to harness the armor's power.

John's own augmented capabilities are what allowed him to push the armour beyond the limits of any normal human, as seen with the obstacle course John ran to test the armour itself in which he ran over half a kilometre in seventeen seconds flat AFTER surviving the Scorpion missile explosion, ripping his achilles tendon in the process and basically allowing him to deflect a missile in mid-air due to his own augmentations coupled with what MJOLNIR provided him with. His enhanced muscular and skeletal structure allowed him to simply harness the armour, as Halsey stated, and from there his capabilities were even further enhanced.

That alone kind of contradict your statements that the armour isn't relative to the wearer's ability as a "normal" human would have never been able to push those limits considering that Kelly, the fastest Spartan-II, was even quicker in MJOLNIR armour than the others and in sparring sessions, she's dwarfed their speed and made them appear as if they were moving slower in comparison to herself.

I have simply provided you with the reason I am led to that conclusion. I hope I am not ignoring anything, but I do have a problem with a few points presented. If it is, how you say, a factor of 5 regardless of who drives it, would it then mean that the suit would increase Spiderman's reaction time by a factor of 5? When she specifically said "of a normal human", to me that means it is not relative to the wearer, but it is a baseline. I reviewed my calculations and I do not see any errors with 500%. Lets say we have the number 10, then we multiply it by the factor of 5. It would then become 50, which is 500% in comparison to 10, accordingly if 10 would be the original starting area which is identified as 100%. And as for Kelly's speed, wasn't she already the fastest one without armor?

#204 Edited by Deranged Midget (17854 posts) - - Show Bio

@cable_extreme:

If it is, how you say, a factor of 5 regardless of who drives it, would it then mean that the suit would increase Spiderman's reaction time by a factor of 5?

I don't see what Peter has to do with this nor is it really applicable. Considering in info from both the Halo Encyclopedia and the Fall of Reach novel, SPARTAN-II's and anyone equipped with MJOLNIR armour don't merely "wear" the armour, they are connected to it directly through a neural link as to allow the quickest movements possible by simply formulating thoughts. Through the different variations of armour, the neural link became stronger to better couple both the Spartans capabilities and the enhancements provided from the suit.

The problems I see with your calculations is that you're basing it off of well... nothing that has provided proof really. Additionally, to touch further upon this piece of info:

This entire "statement" isn't even a statement. It comes Halsey's predictions of what the results may be from the augmentation, taken from a encrypted file discussing what the risks, side-effects and results may be from mere hypothetical experimentation. As I provided earlier proof, Halsey's predictions were blown away:

Here's the message:

United Nations Space Command Priority Transmission 09872H-98

Encryption Code:RedPublic Key:file /excised access Omega/

From:Admiral Ysionris Jeromi, Chief Medical Officer, UNSC Research Station Hopeful

To:Dr. Catherine Elizabeth Halsey M.D., Ph.D., special civilian consultant (civilian Identification

Number: 10141-026-SRB4695)

Subject:Mitigating factors and relative biological risks associated with queried experimental medical procedures.

Classification:RESTRICTED (BGX Directive)

/start file/

Catherine,

I am afraid further analysis has yielded no viable alternatives to mitigate the risks in your proposed “hypothetical” experimentation. I have, however, attached the synopsis of my team’s findings as well as all relevant case studies. Perhaps you will find them useful.

I hope it is a hypothetical study . . . the use of Binobo chimpanzees in your proposal is troublesome. These animals are expensive and rare now since they are no longer bred in captivity. I would hate to see such valuable specimens wasted in some Section Three project.

Best,

y.j.

She winced at the veiled rebuke in the Admiral’s communiqué. He had never approved of her decision to work with the Office of Naval Intelligence, and made his disappointment with his star pupil evident every time she visited Hopeful.

It was hard enough to justify the morality of the course she was about to embark upon. Jeromi’s disapproval only made her decision more difficult.

Dr. Halsey gritted her teeth and returned to the report.

Synopsis of chemical/ biological risks

WARNING: the following procedures are classified level-3 experimental. Primate test subjects must be cleared through UNSC Quartermaster General Office code: OBF34. Follow gamma code biohazard disposal protocol.

1. Carbide ceramic ossification:advanced material grafting onto skeletal structures to make bones virtually unbreakable. Recommended coverage not to exceed 3 percent total bone mass because of significant white blood cell necrosis. Specific risk for pre- and near-postpubescent adolescents: skeletal growth spurts may cause irreparable bone pulverization. See attached case studies.

2.Muscular enhancement injections: protein complex is injected intramuscularly to increase tissue density and decrease lactase recovery time. Risk: 5 percent of test subjects experience a fatal cardiac volume increase.

3. Catalytic thyroid implant:platinum pellet containing human growth hormone catalyst is implanted in the thyroid to boost growth of skeletal and muscle tissues. Risk: rare instances of elephantiasis. Suppressed sexual drive.

4. Occipital capillary reversal:submergence and boosted blood vessel flow beneath the rods and cones of subject’s retina. Produces a marked visual perception increase. Risk: retinal rejection and detachment. Permanent blindness. See attached autopsy reports.

5. Superconducting fibrification of neural dendrites:alteration of bioelectrical nerve transduction to shielded electronic transduction. Three hundred percent increase in subject reflexes. Anecdotal evidence of marked increase in intelligence, memory, and creativity. Risk: significant instances of Parkinson’s disease and Fletcher’s syndrome.

/end file/

PressENTER to open linked attachments.


And yes, Kelly is the faster Spartan by a longshot, I was only stating how much faster she became even with the armour on and that it is relative to the user, not vice versa.

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#205 Posted by redleader1 (610 posts) - - Show Bio

@superparody: yes but deathstroke has military and assassin expire nice and he has enhanced strength. Also he has a huge amout of weapons

#206 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (20427 posts) - - Show Bio

@superparody: yes but deathstroke has military and assassin expire nice and he has enhanced strength. Also he has a huge amout of weapons

John has experience from being trained since he was 6 or 7, and has enhanced strength in the multi-ton range (he can flip over a Warthog, which is 3.25 tons). Weapon-wise, Chief wins. He has the support of the entire UNSC arsenal.

#207 Posted by redleader1 (610 posts) - - Show Bio

@sirmethos: never say no chance of winning when talking about deathstroke

#208 Posted by Cable_Extreme (9702 posts) - - Show Bio

@deranged_midget:

I am not the one that originally made those comparisons. I was talking to the guy that did when he was trying to times the two together. He is the one that brought up those scans, and I was pointing out, that if he was trying to make those calculation, you would do this instead. Nothing you have provided me says that the armor works more for someone than for someone else. It is only the person on the inside that can move the armor faster or slower. The armor itself isn't relative to the person. So I don't see why it would increase someone's specific reaction time more so than someone else. It is a baseline increase. The reason I brought up spiderman is to compare to you arguement, so lets say it is a spartan with Spiderman's reflexes, it would conceivably enhance his abilities by a factor of 5. Which would not be the case. At least not the case from any evidence presented. The reason Kelly with armor on is faster is because she is the faster person. The armor doesn't enhance her anymore than it would another Spartan, her difference in speed is the decisive factor, not the armor itself.

#209 Posted by Cable_Extreme (9702 posts) - - Show Bio

@redleader1 said:

@superparody: yes but deathstroke has military and assassin expire nice and he has enhanced strength. Also he has a huge amout of weapons

John has experience from being trained since he was 6 or 7, and has enhanced strength in the multi-ton range (he can flip over a Warthog, which is 3.25 tons). Weapon-wise, Chief wins. He has the support of the entire UNSC arsenal.

Deathstroke new 52 is around 5 ton range. And the Bio doesn't say "entire UNSC arsenal". Is says assault rifle and pistol, as well as energy sword.

#210 Posted by Deranged Midget (17854 posts) - - Show Bio

@deranged_midget:

I am not the one that originally made those comparisons. I was talking to the guy that did when he was trying to times the two together. He is the one that brought up those scans, and I was pointing out, that if he was trying to make those calculation, you would do this instead. Nothing you have provided me says that the armor works more for someone than for someone else. It is only the person on the inside that can move the armor faster or slower. The armor itself isn't relative to the person. So I don't see why it would increase someone's specific reaction time more so than someone else. It is a baseline increase. The reason I brought up spiderman is to compare to you arguement, so lets say it is a spartan with Spiderman's reflexes, it would conceivably enhance his abilities by a factor of 5. Which would not be the case. At least not the case from any evidence presented. The reason Kelly with armor on is faster is because she is the faster person. The armor doesn't enhance her anymore than it would another Spartan, her difference in speed is the decisive factor, not the armor itself.

I seriously think you are getting mixed up here dude.

Kelly, being the fastest SPARTAN, is still faster with the armour because of her augmentation and that the armour enhances that by a factor of five. So technically, that factor of five, dependant on who is operating the armour and their capabilities, is there to increase said wearer's capabilities. There is literally nothing else to base "a factor of five" off of. Absolutely nothing. I stated a few posts ago through a scan that there is a baseline increase, that of a factor of five.

Nothing you have provided me says that the armor works more for someone than for someone else. It is only the person on the inside that can move the armor faster or slower. The armor itself isn't relative to the person. So I don't see why it would increase someone's specific reaction time more so than someone else. It is a baseline increase. The reason I brought up spiderman is to compare to you arguement, so lets say it is a spartan with Spiderman's reflexes, it would conceivably enhance his abilities by a factor of 5.

See, I don't know what you're doing here mate. You're flip-flopping all over the place. If someone, take Peter for example, whose reflexes and reaction time dwarfs that of Spartan's, were to wear the same MJOLNIR armour that enhances the wearer's abilities by a factor of five, his abilities would thus be enhanced. Why would it be any different for him as opposed to a SPARTAN? Your dependency on Halsey's statement regarding "normal" humans means nothing as there is nothing to back that up and as I've already proven, her previous "predictions" and "assumptions" were all wrong. A basis surrounding "normal" humans when they can't even harness the armour in the slightest. Makes sense right?

The armour is the baseline, the person inside makes the difference. Someone with better reaction time will still have better reaction time when equipped with the armour. How is the end result NOT relative to the person? The example I provided via the Marine testing out the armour is literally the prime example.

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#211 Posted by Jmarshmallow (10091 posts) - - Show Bio

@deranged_midget: Spider-Man with MJOLNIR armor?

I would pay soooo much money to see that.

Jmarshmallow

#212 Posted by Cable_Extreme (9702 posts) - - Show Bio

@deranged_midget:

I seriously think you are getting mixed up here dude.

Kelly, being the fastest SPARTAN, is still faster with the armour because of her augmentation and that the armour enhances that by a factor of five. So technically, that factor of five, dependant on who is operating the armour and their capabilities, is there to increase said wearer's capabilities. There is literally nothing else to base "a factor of five" off of. Absolutely nothing. I stated a few posts ago through a scan that there is a baseline increase, that of a factor of five.

My problem with that statement is as underlined. I have seen nothing suggesting that it enhances her specific reflexes, the sources say "of a normal human". Saying otherwise, I would need something saying it works on an enhanced human the same way it works on a normal human. Reason being, I don't understand why it would enhance someone so much more than someone else if it is simply from thoughts. The driver if they are enhanced, becomes enhanced, but not by a factor of 5 from their personal reflexes. It is a factor of 5, of a normal human. Meaning it enhances everyone the same amount, that the difference in speed is not the armor's enhancements, but the person's speed superiority outside of the armor.

See, I don't know what you're doing here mate. You're flip-flopping all over the place. If someone, take Peter for example, whose reflexes and reaction time dwarfs that of Spartan's, were to wear the same MJOLNIR armour that enhances the wearer's abilities by a factor of five, his abilities would thus be enhanced. Why would it be any different for him as opposed to a SPARTAN? Your dependency on Halsey's statement regarding "normal" humans means nothing as there is nothing to back that up and as I've already proven, her previous "predictions" and "assumptions" were all wrong. A basis surrounding "normal" humans when they can't even harness the armour in the slightest. Makes sense right?

The problem is, I don't have to back that "statement" up, I am holding the skeptical position. I also was addressing the calculations done by the guy. I provided a reason why I am skeptical that is enhances people by a factor of 5 regardless of their abilities, because the very reason we say factor of 5 is from her statement. If you are saying she was wrong about "normal human" then the factor of five argument holds no ground. But to address your last sentence. It is irrelevant who drives it, since they compare the enhancements that the person receives to a factor of 5 of a normal human. Not a factor of 5 of the person in the armor. I have not seen any proof for that assumption. And I have provide my reasons for being skeptical.

#213 Posted by Deranged Midget (17854 posts) - - Show Bio

My problem with that statement is as underlined. I have seen nothing suggesting that it enhances her specific reflexes, the sources say "of a normal human". Saying otherwise, I would need something saying it works on an enhanced human the same way it works on a normal human. Reason being, I don't understand why it would enhance someone so much more than someone else if it is simply from thoughts. The driver if they are enhanced, becomes enhanced, but not by a factor of 5 from their personal reflexes. It is a factor of 5, of a normal human. Meaning it enhances everyone the same amount, that the difference in speed is not the armor's enhancements, but the person's speed superiority outside of the armor.

Dude, did you just ignore the entirety of my post? How exactly are you going to base your standpoint on a woman whose entire list of predictions regarding the SPARTAN's, the augmentations and the MJOLNIR armour itself, were hilariously wrong? She was BAFFLED that the SPARTAN's were performing so well out of augmentation and as Mendez stated, they were only to improve as they adjusted to their "altercations".

Reason being, I don't understand why it would enhance someone so much more than someone else if it is simply from thoughts. The driver if they are enhanced, becomes enhanced, but not by a factor of 5 from their personal reflexes.

Ok. The reason why SPARTAN's are neurally linked to the MJOLNIR armour is to allow themselves to perform at a better rate than ever before. The mind operates the body, not the other way around mate. So instead of forcing them to simply move the armour with their enhancements, the neural link aids in making that act even faster through it's enhancements.

The problem is, I don't have to back that "statement" up, I am holding the skeptical position. I also was addressing the calculations done by the guy. I provided a reason why I am skeptical that is enhances people by a factor of 5 regardless of their abilities, because the very reason we say factor of 5 is from her statement. If you are saying she was wrong about "normal human" then the factor of five argument holds no ground. But to address your last sentence. It is irrelevant who drives it, since they compare the enhancements that the person receives to a factor of 5 of a normal human. Not a factor of 5 of the person in the armor. I have not seen any proof for that assumption. And I have provide my reasons for being skeptical.

You don't have to back up your statement? When your basis lies on calculations made by someone else, which I've disproven then yes, you kind of have to mate. You have no basis, I'm sorry. You are honestly just repeating yourself at this point with nothing to support your argument save for a focus on the normality of humans, who CANNOT even pilot the armour. That entire statement becomes moot when you realize that humans cannot even harness the armour, so how in the world would they even begin to assume how the armour would affect their reaction times aside from hypothetical assumptions? Halsey herself wasn't even sure the SPARTAN-II's could handle the armour nor could she accurately predict their augmentation results.

Another thing, the factor of five is simply a baseline, as we've clearly both stated more times than I want to count. It's a simple calculation provided by what the armour dishes out. If Halsey ever once stated any differently that the enhancement factor would have ANY sort of difference considering that the SPARTAN's would operate them, I would agree with you, but she doesn't. At all, not even once. This is the closest we have to an explanation:

"There is one problem however. This system is so reactive that our previous tests with unaugmented volunteers ended in-" She searched for the right word. "-failure." She nodded to one of the technicians.

Then we had the demonstration of the marine with the armour:

A flat video appeared in the air. It showed a Marine officer, a Lieutenant, being fitted with the MJOLNIR armor. "Power is on," someone said from offscreen. "Move your right arm please."

The soldier's arm blurred forward with incredible speed. The Marine's stoic expression collapsed into shock, surprise, and pain as his arm shattered. He convulsed- shuddered and screamed. As he jerked in pain John could hear the sounds of bones breaking.

The man's own agony-induced spasms were killing him.

Halsey waved the video away. "Normal humans don't have the reaction time or strength required to drive this system," she explained. "You do. Your enhanced musculature and the metal and ceramic layers that have been bonded to your skeleton shouldbe enough to allow you to harness the armor's power. There has been... insufficient computer modelling however. There will be some risk. you'll have to move very slowly and deliberately until you get a feel for the armor and how it works. It cannot be powered down, nor can the response be scaled back. Do you understand?"

And the exact same demonstration with John:

"Listen carefully to me, John," Dr. Halsey said. "I just want you to think, and only think, about moving your arm up to chest level. Stay relaxed."

He willed his arm to move, and his hand and forearm sprang forward to chest level. The slightest motion translated his thought to motion at lightning speed. It had been so fast if he hadn't been attached to his arm, he might have missed that it happened at all.

The Spartans gasped.

Sam applauded. Even lightning fast Kelly seemed impressed.

As you can see. Exact same demonstration, exact same result save for the fact that John's bones and musculature save him from the marine's fate. More proof:

John snapped a salute without thinking. His hand bounced off his helmet and a dull ache throbbed in his hand. His wrist would be bruised. If his bones hadn't been reinforced, he knew they would have been pulverised.

-Taken from page 118 of Halo: The Fall of Reach

On one level, John moved the suit and in return, it moved him. On another level, however, communication with his squad was so easy and natural, he could move and direct them as if they were an extension of his body

-Taken from page 119 of Halo: The Fall of Reach


There is literally nothing differentiating John and the Spartans from the "normal" humans in terms of the suits enhancements save for the fact that they possess near-unbreakable skeletons and stronger musculature.

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#214 Edited by Cable_Extreme (9702 posts) - - Show Bio

@deranged_midget:

Dude, did you just ignore the entirety of my post? How exactly are you going to base your standpoint on a woman whose entire list of predictions regarding the SPARTAN's, the augmentations and the MJOLNIR armour itself, were hilariously wrong? She was BAFFLED that the SPARTAN's were performing so well out of augmentation and as Mendez stated, they were only to improve as they adjusted to their "altercations".

Then why would you say the armor amps them by a factor of 5? The argument started with that very same scan used to prove that is what the armor did.

Ok. The reason why SPARTAN's are neurally linked to the MJOLNIR armour is to allow themselves to perform at a better rate than ever before. The mind operates the body, not the other way around mate. So instead of forcing them to simply move the armour with their enhancements, the neural link aids in making that act even faster through it's enhancements.

So their physical enhancements are useless? Only if they have enough enhancements to operate the system? It is all about the speed of their brain?

You don't have to back up your statement? When your basis lies on calculations made by someone else, which I've disproven then yes, you kind of have to mate. You have no basis, I'm sorry. You are honestly just repeating yourself at this point with nothing to support your argument save for a focus on the normality of humans, who CANNOT even pilot the armour. That entire statement becomes moot when you realize that humans cannot even harness the armour, so how in the world would they even begin to assume how the armour would affect their reaction times aside from hypothetical assumptions? Halsey herself wasn't even sure the SPARTAN-II's could handle the armour nor could she accurately predict their augmentation results.

My basis is being skeptical of the calculations made by someone else. I also don't see how you have disproven my skepticism. Though your saying how could a human even polit the armor? That to me is the wrong question, it doesn't matter whether or not a human can pilot it. Based on the scan provided, it tells us how much it enhances us.

Another thing, the factor of five is simply a baseline, as we've clearly both stated more times than I want to count. It's a simple calculation provided by what the armour dishes out. If Halsey ever once stated any differently that the enhancement factor would have ANY sort of difference considering that the SPARTAN's would operate them, I would agree with you, but she doesn't. At all, not even once. This is the closest we have to an explanation:

If you have said my whole argument is based on stuff that has been disproven, then where are you getting the factor of 5 thing? If what she said isn't true, is there another source your getting that info from? If there is, you could probably end the debate here and now. However, if there is not, I don't see how taking some info, and disregarding another would be an effective means of debating this fight.

As for the proof you have provided. I don't think I ever argued that a regular person could use it, I only argued that the method they used for comparing the enhancements were a factor of 5 of a regular human. I also want to know how much the suit enhances people, if the source I got my info from is not credible. :D

#215 Posted by Anal_Vomit (759 posts) - - Show Bio

To me, their both equally skilled, But MC has more strength, battle tactics and speed. He also has a lot more experience.

#216 Edited by Cable_Extreme (9702 posts) - - Show Bio

To me, their both equally skilled, But MC has more strength, battle tactics and speed. He also has a lot more experience.

What makes you think has more strength battle tactics or speed?

#217 Edited by Deranged Midget (17854 posts) - - Show Bio

Then why would you say the armor amps them by a factor of 5? The argument started with that very same scan used to prove that is what the armor did.

No, you're right. It could be wrong, it could be right. We do know that the armour does enhance them. Unless you grab other sources.

So their physical enhancements are useless? Only if they have enough enhancements to operate the system? It is all about the speed of their brain?

No they aren't useless as I've stated with the limits John pushed both his body and the armour beyond to finish the obstacle course. Along with that:

On one level, John moved the suit and in return, it moved him. On another level, however, communication with his squad was so easy and natural, he could move and direct them as if they were an extension of his body

--------

My basis is being skeptical of the calculations made by someone else. I also don't see how you have disproven my skepticism. Though your saying how could a human even polit the armor? That to me is the wrong question, it doesn't matter whether or not a human can pilot it. Based on the scan provided, it tells us how much it enhances us.

The calculations made by YNCG were taken out of context, the scan in which it stated assumptions of possible results of the augmentation. I've already stated that multiple times at this point.

The MJOLNIR armour was developed for humans to pilot. Through early test runs, it was clear that "normal" wasn't going to cut it anymore and thus the development of the SPARTAN-II Augmentation program was born. Like I said, Halsey makes no mention of any difference to how the enhancement affects the Spartans compared to humans, if it made any difference at all besides their safety. Arguing semantics isn't helping your argument my friend.

If you have said my whole argument is based on stuff that has been disproven, then where are you getting the factor of 5 thing? If what she said isn't true, is there another source your getting that info from? If there is, you could probably end the debate here and now. However, if there is not, I don't see how taking some info, and disregarding another would be an effective means of debating this fight.

As for the proof you have provided. I don't think I ever argued that a regular person could use it, I only argued that the method they used for comparing the enhancements were a factor of 5 of a regular human. I also want to know how much the suit enhances people, if the source I got my info from is not credible. :D

Besides being the only factual proof that isn't dissected further nor challenged by Halsey or any of the SPARTAN's for that matter, who questioned other aspects of the armour, I don't see how it changes. But yes, both the Halo Encyclopedia and the Halo Strategy Guide provide clear statements regarding how the armour functions and how it enhances it's wearer.

At the same time it is amorphous, yet amplifies force, doubling lifting capability and increasing reaction time by a factor of five. Unfortunately, the system is so reactive that normal human beings cannot use the suit without injuring themselves. Only humans who have carbide ceramic ossification, a skeletal augmentation, such as a SPARTAN-II, can safely wear the suit.

Page 5 of the Halo: Strategy Guide


And the other source:

In addition, the Mark VI's liquid crystal and hydrostatic gel layers received significant improvements over the previous version. The liquid crystal layer increases the strength of the armor by a factor of five in addition to amplifying the users reaction time by the same factor. The hydrostatic layer features a lock-down device, which protects the muscles and joints of its Spartan wearer from heavy-impact injuries.

Page 91 of the Halo Encyclopedia

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#218 Edited by Cable_Extreme (9702 posts) - - Show Bio

@deranged_midget said:

@cable_extreme said:

Then why would you say the armor amps them by a factor of 5? The argument started with that very same scan used to prove that is what the armor did.

No, you're right. It could be wrong, it could be right. We do know that the armour does enhance them. Unless you grab other sources.

So their physical enhancements are useless? Only if they have enough enhancements to operate the system? It is all about the speed of their brain?

No they aren't useless as I've stated with the limits John pushed both his body and the armour beyond to finish the obstacle course. Along with that:

On one level, John moved the suit and in return, it moved him. On another level, however, communication with his squad was so easy and natural, he could move and direct them as if they were an extension of his body

--------

My basis is being skeptical of the calculations made by someone else. I also don't see how you have disproven my skepticism. Though your saying how could a human even polit the armor? That to me is the wrong question, it doesn't matter whether or not a human can pilot it. Based on the scan provided, it tells us how much it enhances us.

The calculations made by YNCG were taken out of context, the scan in which it stated assumptions of possible results of the augmentation. I've already stated that multiple times at this point.

The MJOLNIR armour was developed for humans to pilot. Through early test runs, it was clear that "normal" wasn't going to cut it anymore and thus the development of the SPARTAN-II Augmentation program was born. Like I said, Halsey makes no mention of any difference to how the enhancement affects the Spartans compared to humans, if it made any difference at all besides their safety. Arguing semantics isn't helping your argument my friend.

If you have said my whole argument is based on stuff that has been disproven, then where are you getting the factor of 5 thing? If what she said isn't true, is there another source your getting that info from? If there is, you could probably end the debate here and now. However, if there is not, I don't see how taking some info, and disregarding another would be an effective means of debating this fight.

As for the proof you have provided. I don't think I ever argued that a regular person could use it, I only argued that the method they used for comparing the enhancements were a factor of 5 of a regular human. I also want to know how much the suit enhances people, if the source I got my info from is not credible. :D

Besides being the only factual proof that isn't dissected further nor challenged by Halsey or any of the SPARTAN's for that matter, who questioned other aspects of the armour, I don't see how it changes. But yes, both the Halo Encyclopedia and the Halo Strategy Guide provide clear statements regarding how the armour functions and how it enhances it's wearer.

At the same time it is amorphous, yet amplifies force, doubling lifting capability and increasing reaction time by a factor of five. Unfortunately, the system is so reactive that normal human beings cannot use the suit without injuring themselves. Only humans who have carbide ceramic ossification, a skeletal augmentation, such as a SPARTAN-II, can safely wear the suit.

Page 5 of the Halo: Strategy Guide

And the other source:

In addition, the Mark VI's liquid crystal and hydrostatic gel layers received significant improvements over the previous version. The liquid crystal layer increases the strength of the armor by a factor of five in addition to amplifying the users reaction time by the same factor. The hydrostatic layer features a lock-down device, which protects the muscles and joints of its Spartan wearer from heavy-impact injuries.

Page 91 of the Halo Encyclopedia

Okay, the other sources verify that the suit does infact augment the person by a factor of five (reaction time wise). My reasons for being skeptical are now gone.

Now that you have verified this, around how much is he enhanced? I now safely know it increases his strength x2 and speed x5, I also heared that MC is in the multi ton region which current Deathstroke is as well.

The last thing in this fight is reviewing the weaponry they both have. I think MC's best chance at winning is with his energy sword, though he cannot recharge it, and Deathstroke has some serious heat protection seen from his explosion withstanding armor, as well as healing factor that allows him to either heal from stab wounds efficiently, and heal from a submarine explosive impact in less than an hour. They both have guns, though Deathstroke has a Promethium Blade and blasting staff, with an assortment of high grade explosives, which could eventually take down MC.

Another factor is, I am trying to think of a way DS is going to get past MC's armor. I feel it will be a hard task and DS won't know a lot about it, Though, I am sure Deathstroke will plant a bomb on him like he usually does to see if that works, which could leave MC momentarily less armored since his shields would have to recharge.

#219 Posted by Deranged Midget (17854 posts) - - Show Bio

Okay, the other sources verify that the suit does infact augment the person by a factor of five (reaction time wise). My reasons for being skeptical are now gone.

Now that you have verified this, around how much is he enhanced? I now safely know it increases his strength x2 and speed x5, I also heared that MC is in the multi ton region which current Deathstroke is as well.

The last thing in this fight is reviewing the weaponry they both have. I think MC's best chance at winning is with his energy sword, though he cannot recharge it, and Deathstroke has some serious heat protection seen from his explosion withstanding armor, as well as healing factor that allows him to either heal from stab wounds efficiently, and heal from a submarine explosive impact in less than an hour. They both have guns, though Deathstroke has a Promethium Blade and blasting staff, with an assortment of high grade explosives, which could eventually take down MC.

Another factor is, I am trying to think of a way DS is going to get past MC's armor. I feel it will be a hard task and DS won't know a lot about it, Though, I am sure Deathstroke will plant a bomb on him like he usually does to see if that works, which could leave MC momentarily less armored since his shields would have to recharge.

To an exact amount, it's never stated. From the earliest stages of their augmentation, they were easily able to lift at least their times their own body weight, which as with their speed and reaction time, increased as they grew accustomed to their altercations. Honestly though, the only thing we have to go by is his feats. In comparison to New 52 Deathstroke, whom I've heard is a 5 tonner, I'd say John is marginally outclassed.

In terms of gear, I would agree that John is at a disadvantage save for the inclusion of the Energy sword. And yes, the blade does lose energy with each strike. As to the effect, it depends on where John hits Slade. If it's a graze or a hit on a non-essential body-part, Slade wouldn't be put out of the fight, but if he landed a blow in the mid-section, it could be fatal.

Injuries to living creatures by the Type-1 Energy Weapon can range from bad to gruesome. Stab wounds by the Type-1 Energy Weapon are, in most cases, fatal — as the blade passes through the body, the innards of the body are burned and cauterized by the temperatures produced by the blade. Survival is minimal at best and in the case of non-vital organs being stabbed with the energy sword, proper medical treatment must be applied as soon as possible to ensure long term survival. Because of the sword's sheer destructive power, dismemberment is another common form of fatality to victims, ranging from decapitation to bodies being sliced in half.

Taken from Halo: Evolutions- Essential Tales of the Halo Universe


John's armour and shielding is tough, but not invincible. It's a privilege that he doesn't like taking for granted and prefers to be swift in his actions to avoid being hit as he considers it "sloppy". Conventional firearms are all but useless by their lonesome to John's shielding/armour unless he's taking fire from multiple opponents. Additionally, I'm not sure to what scale an explosive will damage him as he deflected and survived a Skyhawk missile at ground zero and continued to sprint half a kilometre in seventeen seconds with a torn achilles tendon directly after.

So how John will react to smaller explosives and how they will affect him is debatable.

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#220 Posted by Cable_Extreme (9702 posts) - - Show Bio

@deranged_midget:

To an exact amount, it's never stated. From the earliest stages of their augmentation, they were easily able to lift at least their times their own body weight, which as with their speed and reaction time, increased as they grew accustomed to their altercations. Honestly though, the only thing we have to go by is his feats. In comparison to New 52 Deathstroke, whom I've heard is a 5 tonner, I'd say John is marginally outclassed.

Okay :D

In terms of gear, I would agree that John is at a disadvantage save for the inclusion of the Energy sword. And yes, the blade does lose energy with each strike. As to the effect, it depends on where John hits Slade. If it's a graze or a hit on a non-essential body-part, Slade wouldn't be put out of the fight, but if he landed a blow in the mid-section, it could be fatal.

No doubt if he gets stabbed in the heart, or brain ect, it is over for Deathstroke. Though I am wondering if he blocks it with his promethium blasting staff, would the charges still wear off? I would also argue that since Deathstroke's usual arsenal is carrying a sword, and a staff, IMO i would say he would have an advantage skill wise (sword/staff fighting), since I don't think John fights with an energy sword quite as often as Deathstroke fights with his staff/sword, however this is a simple opinion as of now.

John's armour and shielding is tough, but not invincible. It's a privilege that he doesn't like taking for granted and prefers to be swift in his actions to avoid being hit as he considers it "sloppy". Conventional firearms are all but useless by their lonesome to John's shielding/armour unless he's taking fire from multiple opponents. Additionally, I'm not sure to what scale an explosive will damage him as he deflected and survived a Skyhawk missile at ground zero and continued to sprint half a kilometre in seventeen seconds with a torn achilles tendon directly after.

So how John will react to smaller explosives and how they will affect him is debatable.

I don't think Deathstroke's guns will prove to be too effective versus MC. I also think that MC can survive a bomb, but I do think Deathstroke has a chance to get some good hit in after the bomb goes off, or MC takes a few shots from his blasting staff, reason being, the shields to my understanding have to recharge momentarily after such damage on the shields.

#221 Posted by Deranged Midget (17854 posts) - - Show Bio

No doubt if he gets stabbed in the heart, or brain ect, it is over for Deathstroke. Though I am wondering if he blocks it with his promethium blasting staff, would the charges still wear off? I would also argue that since Deathstroke's usual arsenal is carrying a sword, and a staff, IMO i would say he would have an advantage skill wise (sword/staff fighting), since I don't think John fights with an energy sword quite as often as Deathstroke fights with his staff/sword, however this is a simple opinion as of now.

Yeah, every strike landed with the energy sword drains the power source so it wouldn't matter if it were deflected or a definitive hit, it still counts as a strike. Additionally, I would agree with you on the terms that Slade is probably the better armed combatant as he's definitely been shown to be an expert with a blade.

Just a side note, is this Pre or Post 52 Deathstroke? I noticed that this thread was made three years ago, a year prior to the New 52 so how would that impact Slade's physicals? I'm a little more knowledgeable with New 52 Slade as opposed to Pre-52 when it comes to physical capabilities so I just wanted clarification.

I don't think Deathstroke's guns will prove to be too effective versus MC. I also think that MC can survive a bomb, but I do think Deathstroke has a chance to get some good hit in after the bomb goes off, or MC takes a few shots from his blasting staff, reason being, the shields to my understanding have to recharge momentarily after such damage on the shields.

In regards to his shields yes, it does take a moment for them to charge after being affected. If Slade were to get an upper hand via an explosion that may catch John off guard, he could lead off with some good hits if need be, no argument there. The only point I'd add in is that John is extremely agile and his suit allows for complete traction control through his boots, which allows him to enhance and stabilize his balance when moving at ridiculous speeds. It'd be hard to get the better of him when he's moving.

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#222 Posted by bump1010 (299 posts) - - Show Bio

@deranged_midget: Pre 52 didn't have Nth meal armor so he would be physically weaker then new 52 Slade. All though his showings of skill were much better.

#223 Posted by Deranged Midget (17854 posts) - - Show Bio

@bump1010 said:

@deranged_midget: Pre 52 didn't have Nth meal armor so he would be physically weaker then new 52 Slade. All though his showings of skill were much better.

Interesting, so the Nth metal armour enhances him as well then? Does it not also provide him with a healing factor?

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#224 Posted by bump1010 (299 posts) - - Show Bio

@bump1010 said:

@deranged_midget: Pre 52 didn't have Nth meal armor so he would be physically weaker then new 52 Slade. All though his showings of skill were much better.

Interesting, so the Nth metal armour enhances him as well then? Does it not also provide him with a healing factor?

Yea his Nth metal armor enhances his physicals and healing. He does have a healing factor without his Nth metal but its higher with the Nth metal.

Best healing feats for pre 52 deathstroke off the top of my head would be resurrecting from death after being shot in the head (took him a few hours though), getting stabbed though the chest with his broad sword, and also getting slashed with a knife and haling the wounds in seconds.

Best feat for New 52 would probably be getting stabbed and poked (legacy was poking a hole in slades shoulder) after staying up for a few nights IIRC (I don't recall the exact amount of time his healing factor was keeping him awake but I do recall mention that his healing factor was fighting fatigue).

#225 Edited by Cable_Extreme (9702 posts) - - Show Bio

@deranged_midget:

Yeah, every strike landed with the energy sword drains the power source so it wouldn't matter if it were deflected or a definitive hit, it still counts as a strike. Additionally, I would agree with you on the terms that Slade is probably the better armed combatant as he's definitely been shown to be an expert with a blade.

Agreed.

Just a side note, is this Pre or Post 52 Deathstroke? I noticed that this thread was made three years ago, a year prior to the New 52 so how would that impact Slade's physicals? I'm a little more knowledgeable with New 52 Slade as opposed to Pre-52 when it comes to physical capabilities so I just wanted clarification.

Ah I see, so he has promethium armor. His strength is also hindered a bit to the "strength of ten men". Pre- 52 Slade, does have a lot more to work with in terms of scans though, and his reflexes and speed are shown to be better in pre-52 since New -52 lacks a lot of speed feats. We also have a general idea of how good his weapons are.

He at least has the strength to cut a car in half with his sword, something an energy sword might be able to replicate. But it also shows how durable his blade is.

Also note his speed is a nice showing here, not an "amazing showing" but it is something to point out anyway.

His healing factor is also imo better in Pre-52

And also taking a chest full of bullets from Deadshot, yet winning the fight and walking away.

There are more examples of him taking machine gun fire and continuing or getting stabbed ect..

His speed is also off the charts, there are numerous speed feats I can provide if you wish.

To me the main thing that changes is the armors durability, and his strength.

#226 Posted by Deranged Midget (17854 posts) - - Show Bio

@bump1010 said:

@deranged_midget said:

Interesting, so the Nth metal armour enhances him as well then? Does it not also provide him with a healing factor?

Yea his Nth metal armor enhances his physicals and healing. He does have a healing factor without his Nth metal but its higher with the Nth metal.

Best healing feats for pre 52 deathstroke off the top of my head would be resurrecting from death after being shot in the head (took him a few hours though), getting stabbed though the chest with his broad sword, and also getting slashed with a knife and haling the wounds in seconds.

Best feat for New 52 would probably be getting stabbed and poked (legacy was poking a hole in slades shoulder) after staying up for a few nights IIRC (I don't recall the exact amount of time his healing factor was keeping him awake but I do recall mention that his healing factor was fighting fatigue).

Cool beans, thanks for the feats! It does seem though despite his healing factor being impressive, if John caught him through the stomach with a hit of the energy sword, it's highly unlikely he's surviving due to the scorching temperatures of the blade. And I'd think it's fair to state that since the thread is three years old, Pre-52 Slade it is unless stated otherwise!

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#227 Posted by bump1010 (299 posts) - - Show Bio

@bump1010 said:

@deranged_midget said:

Interesting, so the Nth metal armour enhances him as well then? Does it not also provide him with a healing factor?

Yea his Nth metal armor enhances his physicals and healing. He does have a healing factor without his Nth metal but its higher with the Nth metal.

Best healing feats for pre 52 deathstroke off the top of my head would be resurrecting from death after being shot in the head (took him a few hours though), getting stabbed though the chest with his broad sword, and also getting slashed with a knife and haling the wounds in seconds.

Best feat for New 52 would probably be getting stabbed and poked (legacy was poking a hole in slades shoulder) after staying up for a few nights IIRC (I don't recall the exact amount of time his healing factor was keeping him awake but I do recall mention that his healing factor was fighting fatigue).

Cool beans, thanks for the feats! It does seem though despite his healing factor being impressive, if John caught him through the stomach with a hit of the energy sword, it's highly unlikely he's surviving due to the scorching temperatures of the blade. And I'd think it's fair to state that since the thread is three years old, Pre-52 Slade it is unless stated otherwise!

No problem. Here are the scans of Slade being stabbed through the chest (since thats probably the most relevant)

Also as a showing of his durability due to his armor in pre 52:

So bullets and explosions can be tanked if Slade is to slow to dodge.

#228 Posted by Deranged Midget (17854 posts) - - Show Bio

@bump1010: @cable_extreme: Excellent work with the scans gents. I can clearly see that I may have underestimated Pre-52's durability.

What exactly does Slade possesses with "standard" gear? I know he has his sword, presumably handguns of some sort and perhaps explosives?

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#229 Edited by Cable_Extreme (9702 posts) - - Show Bio

@deranged_midget said:

@bump1010: @cable_extreme: Excellent work with the scans gents. I can clearly see that I may have underestimated Pre-52's durability.

What exactly does Slade possesses with "standard" gear? I know he has his sword, presumably handguns of some sort and perhaps explosives?

Yes, he regularly carries explosives, and often uses them to kill/destroy or even as a distraction as seen in his fight with Dick Grayson while he was Batman, he used an explosive device and armed it next to two guards (civilians in Dick's eyes) so he could cause a distraction so he could continue on his mission. But he has also been known to use high grade military grenades. He has also regularly used an automatic weapon of a sort, though the type changes each time. He has also been known to use a sniper rifle on many occasions, but it depends on when he needs it so I suppose that is not part of his "usual" weaponry. But most the time, he either has tons of explosives ready to use, or he has prepped the area with explosives before hand. As for his blasting staff it is a formidable weapon as well. It is made of promethium (most the time) with the shooting power of a rocket launcher. He can use non lethal blast as well as lethal blast, here is an example.

It is strong enough to "destroy" a helicopter, not just simply shoot it down.

So his usual equipment is Sword, Gun (automatic) as well as semi handguns, Blasting staff, promethium armor, and high grade explosives. He also has projectiles which he has used before that he has pulled from his belt, but he has done this on a far less occasion than "ordinary" but the times he did use them, he didn't really "prep" so it is debatable.

#230 Edited by WhySoSolid (28 posts) - - Show Bio

deathstroke wins he uses like 90 percent of his brain and he has super agility and is way stronger then a human

#231 Posted by Cable_Extreme (9702 posts) - - Show Bio

deathstroke wins he uses like 90 percent of his brain and he has super agility and is way stronger then a human

MC is stronger and faster than a normal human lol.

#232 Posted by atrocitustheferocious (182 posts) - - Show Bio

deathstroke wins. he could easily trick master into doing something. and once deathstroke has broken in masters armour he could stab a sword into the broken armour spot. and plus deathstroke is faster and more athletic. no stupid asoult rifle gonna kill deathstroke. deathy can assassinate anyone. if you wonna kill someone. who do you call. death stroke. du du du da du du du du da du. lol i don't dont care if i sang it wrong. go death

#233 Posted by Chibi_cute (4592 posts) - - Show Bio

Master chief.

#234 Posted by M_Man (897 posts) - - Show Bio

Master Chief without a doubt. MOst people only know what he can do from the games but it's hard to depict his abilities in them. Read the novels and comics and you'll learn he's insanely strong.

#235 Edited by homicidalmaniac (8187 posts) - - Show Bio

MC aka The Master Chef.3600th Post

#236 Posted by Jeepeh (4242 posts) - - Show Bio

Does slade have Nth metal armor? If he does then this could be interesting, spandex and it's chief for the stomp.

#237 Posted by MonsterStomp (19880 posts) - - Show Bio

Master Chief's armour is more advance than the nth Metal amour.

#238 Posted by Noone301994 (6308 posts) - - Show Bio

I hope Chief isn't allowed his suit in this...

#239 Posted by Strider92 (16770 posts) - - Show Bio

Master Chief for a very solid win.

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#240 Posted by Edude117 (349 posts) - - Show Bio

Master Chief takes this, but he does get a run for his money. People are either really underestimating Master Chief here or really underestimating Deathstroke. Unfortunately for Deathstroke, his writers are terribly inconsistent, but if we use his most powerful incarnation, he has around the same stats as Chief (able to run at around 30 to 70 miles an hour, dodge bullets, lift incredibly heavy objects, genius-level intellect, etc.), however, the reason I feel like John takes this is because he has more in-battle experience therefore is much more used to working under pressure with little to no resources as opposed to Deathstroke who usually fights one-on-one or close to one-on-one and prepares for his big fights (i.e. Lobo). Chief's just more resourceful. And because he typically fights in battles where he's severely outnumbered, he's probably got better reaction time than Slade. After all, that means he has to be dodging, blocking, and evading ridiculous amounts of gun-fire from nearly all directions. Also, because of his armor, he's much more durable than Deathstroke. Much more durable. Oh, and I'm assuming Chief doesn't have Cortana. If he does, this is an easy win for Chief.

#241 Posted by VaporishLicense (132 posts) - - Show Bio

With Cortana: master chief dominates him pretty damn quick.

without cortana: master chief takes the time to punch his head off.

with me playing with him: Master chief would toss a sticky, and then i tea bag him in that one eye that he can see with.

overall, deathstroke will be scarred for life.

#242 Edited by AllenZXA (24 posts) - - Show Bio

MC take this I played halo for a very long time also MC can reheal him self pretty good as well.

#243 Posted by ULTRAstarkiller (6294 posts) - - Show Bio

Chief. Cap and DS are like his prototypes lol.

#244 Posted by Stormdriven (5538 posts) - - Show Bio

Chief should win. I don't see Deathstroke having any problems getting through the shield, the problem is the armor. No bullet short of armor piercing is going through the armor. I'm not sure if Deathstroke's weapons do, so someone please correct me if I'm wrong. And although Chief isn't a master with an energy sword, he still had enough proficiency with it to duel a zealot, zealots who spend a large majority of their time training with it. And this was the first time seeing the weapon. Deathstroke is more skilled with swords and such, but he really has no way to deflect the energy sword. So Chief wins 6-7/10.

#245 Edited by Twix_Right_Side (2322 posts) - - Show Bio

This thread is mainly comprised of underestimation. Mainly of Captain America (go figure) and to a smaller extent Master Chief.

Anyway,Master Chief,from what I've seen,should be able to win.

#246 Posted by Twix_Right_Side (2322 posts) - - Show Bio

@cable_extreme: Since when was Deathstroke a 5 tonner? I mean,I've seen new 52 Deathstroke rip off airplane doors at (I think) 40,000 feet,but I don't think that that makes him a 5 tonner

#247 Edited by Cable_Extreme (9702 posts) - - Show Bio

@twix_right_side: New 52 Deathstroke has ripped an airplane door off its hinges with one arm, he manhandled Hawkman whom is around 5 tons. I can go through many more feats when I get back to my dorm. I say he is sadly around 5 tons of strength, he could be much more.

#248 Edited by Wolverine08 (45153 posts) - - Show Bio

Arguments on this thread convinced me Chief wins.

#249 Posted by Frozen (15123 posts) - - Show Bio

Chief.

#250 Posted by Twix_Right_Side (2322 posts) - - Show Bio

@twix_right_side: New 52 Deathstroke has ripped an airplane door off its hinges with one arm, he manhandled Hawkman whom is around 5 tons. I can go through many more feats when I get back to my dorm. I say he is sadly around 5 tons of strength, he could be much more.

I honestly saw him as 3 tons in the new 52,and 1 ton pre-new 52.

I don't think ripping off an airplane door (at 40,000 feet) makes him a 5 tonner,though. Maybe 2 tonner with that feat.And I think I know the Hawkman thing that you are referencing. That's hardly a strength feat. It's not like he outmuscled Hawkman,but he beat him in a fight (outskilled him).Hawkman is 5 tonners (at base)