#151 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (19884 posts) - - Show Bio

@cable_extreme:

Again, Deathstroke is impressive, but his armor is simply not as durable or powerful as Master Chief's.

Yes, the plasma bolts and orbital re-entry were blunt force, but that blunt force, as far as I'm concerned, far outclasses the damage of the piercing force potentially applicable in this battle. 4000 feet in the air a SPARTAN-II was able to endure with their shields. It wasn't even stated that the shields wore off after that! And that SPARTAN-II dispatched soldiers right after they landed, without ill effect.

John has constantly been hit with these monsters :

They are designed to tank down aircrafts and large land vehicles. They melt humans in an instant. This thing would dissolve that jet in an instant. Fuel Rod Cannons are also mounted on Hunters. John has shrugged this type of damage off numerous times.

  • Exhibit A
  • Exhibit B

#152 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (19884 posts) - - Show Bio

That is not correct calculation. If the suit enhances reaction time by a factor of 5 for a normal human, then the armor makes your reflexes 500% faster, and then you add on his 300% reflexes and you get 700%. Deathstroke is 900% enhanced.

They say that it is a factor of 5 for a normal human, but they mean that the armor amplifies their reaction speed by a factor of 5. It is because the armor hadn't been tested on SPARTAN-II's before.

And even it it is 700%, that is without Chief's adrenaline and Cortana's amp (which is a considerable amp).

#153 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@cable_extreme:

That is not correct calculation. If the suit enhances reaction time by a factor of 5 for a normal human, then the armor makes your reflexes 500% faster, and then you add on his 300% reflexes and you get 700%. Deathstroke is 900% enhanced.

I'm curious, how did you get a base reflex speed of 300% which would then be enhanced by a factor of five to be 700%? A factor of five does not equate to 500% mate. So essentially, if his base reaction speed is 300%, which the armour then enhances by a factor of five, it would 1500%. A factor is a quantity by which the stated quantity is then multiplied or divided by.

Moderator
#154 Edited by scorpion2501 (4940 posts) - - Show Bio

great math skills bro :p

#155 Posted by zombieslayer1234 (89 posts) - - Show Bio

Master Chief after a tough fight.

#156 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio
Moderator
#157 Edited by scorpion2501 (4940 posts) - - Show Bio
#158 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (19884 posts) - - Show Bio
#159 Posted by scorpion2501 (4940 posts) - - Show Bio
#160 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (19884 posts) - - Show Bio

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek: You went along with Cable_Extreme though.

I just did basic calculations of Chief's reaction speed. And what do you mean by went along? Because I firmly stand my ground.

#161 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio
Moderator
#162 Edited by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (19884 posts) - - Show Bio
#163 Posted by scorpion2501 (4940 posts) - - Show Bio

@scorpion2501 said:

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek: You went along with Cable_Extreme though.

I just did basic calculations of Chief's reaction speed. And what do you mean by went along? Because I firmly stand my ground.

Well, it looks like you did agree with the 700% though. "And even it it is 700%, that is without Chief's adrenaline and Cortana's amp (which is a considerable amp)."

Oh well, it isn't that important. When you aren't paying attention, making mistakes at math is easy. I do it all the time. This just caught my eye.

#164 Posted by scorpion2501 (4940 posts) - - Show Bio
#165 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (19884 posts) - - Show Bio

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek said:

@deranged_midget said:

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek said:

@scorpion2501 said:

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek: You went along with Cable_Extreme though.

I just did basic calculations of Chief's reaction speed. And what do you mean by went along? Because I firmly stand my ground.

Dude's, it doesn't even matter :P

I tried so hard, and got so far.

But in the end, it doesn't even matteeeeeeeer!

I had to fall,

To lose it all.

But in the end,

It doesn't even matteeeerrr!

One thing. I don't know why.

It doesn't even matter how hard you try.

#166 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio
Moderator
#167 Posted by scorpion2501 (4940 posts) - - Show Bio

@scorpion2501 said:

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek said:

@deranged_midget said:

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek said:

@scorpion2501 said:

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek: You went along with Cable_Extreme though.

I just did basic calculations of Chief's reaction speed. And what do you mean by went along? Because I firmly stand my ground.

Dude's, it doesn't even matter :P

I tried so hard, and got so far.

But in the end, it doesn't even matteeeeeeeer!

I had to fall,

To lose it all.

But in the end,

It doesn't even matteeeerrr!

One thing. I don't know why.

It doesn't even matter how hard you try.

Keep that in mind, I designed this rhyme

To explain in due time

All I know.

Time is a valuable thing.

#168 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio
Moderator
#169 Posted by scorpion2501 (4940 posts) - - Show Bio
#170 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@scorpion2501: HAH! I would but seriously, thread derailment is at hand :P

Moderator
#171 Edited by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (19884 posts) - - Show Bio

@scorpion2501: @scorpion2501:

Must...resist...lyrical...continuation...of...favourite...band!

>.<

DON'T RESIST. ASSIMILATE! ASSIMILATE!

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek said:

@scorpion2501 said:

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek said:

@deranged_midget said:

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek said:

@scorpion2501 said:

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek: You went along with Cable_Extreme though.

I just did basic calculations of Chief's reaction speed. And what do you mean by went along? Because I firmly stand my ground.

Dude's, it doesn't even matter :P

I tried so hard, and got so far.

But in the end, it doesn't even matteeeeeeeer!

I had to fall,

To lose it all.

But in the end,

It doesn't even matteeeerrr!

One thing. I don't know why.

It doesn't even matter how hard you try.

Keep that in mind, I designed this rhyme

To explain in due time

All I know.

Time is a valuable thing.

Watch it fly by as the pendulum swings.

Watch it count down to the end of the day, the clock ticks life away.

It's so unreal.

#172 Posted by scorpion2501 (4940 posts) - - Show Bio

@deranged_midget said:

@scorpion2501: @scorpion2501:

Must...resist...lyrical...continuation...of...favourite...band!

>.<

DON'T RESIST. ASSIMILATE! ASSIMILATE!

@scorpion2501 said:

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek said:

@scorpion2501 said:

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek said:

@deranged_midget said:

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek said:

@scorpion2501 said:

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek: You went along with Cable_Extreme though.

I just did basic calculations of Chief's reaction speed. And what do you mean by went along? Because I firmly stand my ground.

Dude's, it doesn't even matter :P

I tried so hard, and got so far.

But in the end, it doesn't even matteeeeeeeer!

I had to fall,

To lose it all.

But in the end,

It doesn't even matteeeerrr!

One thing. I don't know why.

It doesn't even matter how hard you try.

Keep that in mind, I designed this rhyme

To explain in due time

All I know.

Time is a valuable thing.

Watch it fly by as the pendulum swings.

Watch it count down to the end of the day, the clock ticks life away.

It's so unreal.

Didn’t look out below.

Watch the time go right out the window.

Trying to hold on, but didn’t even know.

#173 Posted by scorpion2501 (4940 posts) - - Show Bio
#174 Edited by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (19884 posts) - - Show Bio
#175 Posted by scorpion2501 (4940 posts) - - Show Bio
#176 Posted by RogueShadow (9775 posts) - - Show Bio

Master Chief.

#177 Posted by Cable_Extreme (8086 posts) - - Show Bio

@cable_extreme said:

That is not correct calculation. If the suit enhances reaction time by a factor of 5 for a normal human, then the armor makes your reflexes 500% faster, and then you add on his 300% reflexes and you get 700%. Deathstroke is 900% enhanced.

They say that it is a factor of 5 for a normal human, but they mean that the armor amplifies their reaction speed by a factor of 5. It is because the armor hadn't been tested on SPARTAN-II's before.

And even it it is 700%, that is without Chief's adrenaline and Cortana's amp (which is a considerable amp).

It doesn't amp more for someone with a higher reaction time. That doesn't make much sense. However, Deathstroke will have adrenaline too. And reaction time is different than brain processing time. Just like Spiderman being able to see bullets in slow motion, does not mean he has a faster brain processing rate than Deathstroke. You have shown his ability to react is 700% faster than a normal person.

#178 Posted by Cable_Extreme (8086 posts) - - Show Bio

@cable_extreme:

That is not correct calculation. If the suit enhances reaction time by a factor of 5 for a normal human, then the armor makes your reflexes 500% faster, and then you add on his 300% reflexes and you get 700%. Deathstroke is 900% enhanced.

I'm curious, how did you get a base reflex speed of 300% which would then be enhanced by a factor of five to be 700%? A factor of five does not equate to 500% mate. So essentially, if his base reaction speed is 300%, which the armour then enhances by a factor of five, it would 1500%. A factor is a quantity by which the stated quantity is then multiplied or divided by.

That doesn't make much sense to me, seeing how the suit increases someone's reaction time 500% more than a normal human. To my understanding that doesn't fluctuate with the person's reaction time. It would say it increases the wearers reaction time by 500 percent, but it specifically says "of a normal human".

#179 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (19884 posts) - - Show Bio

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek: It's probably to late anyways. And a few more lines and we'll hit the Chorus :p.

XD

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek said:

@cable_extreme said:

That is not correct calculation. If the suit enhances reaction time by a factor of 5 for a normal human, then the armor makes your reflexes 500% faster, and then you add on his 300% reflexes and you get 700%. Deathstroke is 900% enhanced.

They say that it is a factor of 5 for a normal human, but they mean that the armor amplifies their reaction speed by a factor of 5. It is because the armor hadn't been tested on SPARTAN-II's before.

And even it it is 700%, that is without Chief's adrenaline and Cortana's amp (which is a considerable amp).

It doesn't amp more for someone with a higher reaction time. That doesn't make much sense. However, Deathstroke will have adrenaline too. And reaction time is different than brain processing time. Just like Spiderman being able to see bullets in slow motion, does not mean he has a faster brain processing rate than Deathstroke. You have shown his ability to react is 700% faster than a normal person.

As Deranged Midget has explained, Chief's reaction time/reflex is a lot more potent than Slade's. And while reaction time doesn't directly convert to brain processing time, it is similar enough to do the same job. If Chief can dodge plasma with ease, he can process the data Cortana is giving him. Heck, this isn't even a debate. They've done so for 4 games already! Halo : Combat Evolved, Halo 2, Halo 3, and Halo 4 they have cooperated flawlessly.

#180 Posted by Cable_Extreme (8086 posts) - - Show Bio

@scorpion2501 said:

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek: It's probably to late anyways. And a few more lines and we'll hit the Chorus :p.

XD

@cable_extreme said:

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek said:

@cable_extreme said:

That is not correct calculation. If the suit enhances reaction time by a factor of 5 for a normal human, then the armor makes your reflexes 500% faster, and then you add on his 300% reflexes and you get 700%. Deathstroke is 900% enhanced.

They say that it is a factor of 5 for a normal human, but they mean that the armor amplifies their reaction speed by a factor of 5. It is because the armor hadn't been tested on SPARTAN-II's before.

And even it it is 700%, that is without Chief's adrenaline and Cortana's amp (which is a considerable amp).

It doesn't amp more for someone with a higher reaction time. That doesn't make much sense. However, Deathstroke will have adrenaline too. And reaction time is different than brain processing time. Just like Spiderman being able to see bullets in slow motion, does not mean he has a faster brain processing rate than Deathstroke. You have shown his ability to react is 700% faster than a normal person.

As Deranged Midget has explained, Chief's reaction time/reflex is a lot more potent than Slade's. And while reaction time doesn't directly convert to brain processing time, it is similar enough to do the same job. If Chief can dodge plasma with ease, he can process the data Cortana is giving him. Heck, this isn't even a debate. They've done so for 4 games already! Halo : Combat Evolved, Halo 2, Halo 3, and Halo 4 they have cooperated flawlessly.

Deathstroke, without his Nth metal armor dodges starfires energy blast ect. I highly doubt Chiefs reflexes are more "potent than Slade's".

#181 Edited by ChaosMarvel (991 posts) - - Show Bio

Good fight but i'll take MC here. Could go either way though.

#182 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@deranged_midget said:

@cable_extreme:

That is not correct calculation. If the suit enhances reaction time by a factor of 5 for a normal human, then the armor makes your reflexes 500% faster, and then you add on his 300% reflexes and you get 700%. Deathstroke is 900% enhanced.

I'm curious, how did you get a base reflex speed of 300% which would then be enhanced by a factor of five to be 700%? A factor of five does not equate to 500% mate. So essentially, if his base reaction speed is 300%, which the armour then enhances by a factor of five, it would 1500%. A factor is a quantity by which the stated quantity is then multiplied or divided by.

That doesn't make much sense to me, seeing how the suit increases someone's reaction time 500% more than a normal human. To my understanding that doesn't fluctuate with the person's reaction time. It would say it increases the wearers reaction time by 500 percent, but it specifically says "of a normal human".

Where does it state that it increases someone's reaction time 500% let alone in comparison to anyone else? It merely states that it enhances reaction time by a factor of five. John is a "normal" human, not that it matters because unaugmented would be able to pilot the armour if it were not for the insane speed and strengthened musculature and skeletal structure required.

Moderator
#183 Edited by Cable_Extreme (8086 posts) - - Show Bio

@cable_extreme said:

@deranged_midget said:

@cable_extreme:

That is not correct calculation. If the suit enhances reaction time by a factor of 5 for a normal human, then the armor makes your reflexes 500% faster, and then you add on his 300% reflexes and you get 700%. Deathstroke is 900% enhanced.

I'm curious, how did you get a base reflex speed of 300% which would then be enhanced by a factor of five to be 700%? A factor of five does not equate to 500% mate. So essentially, if his base reaction speed is 300%, which the armour then enhances by a factor of five, it would 1500%. A factor is a quantity by which the stated quantity is then multiplied or divided by.

That doesn't make much sense to me, seeing how the suit increases someone's reaction time 500% more than a normal human. To my understanding that doesn't fluctuate with the person's reaction time. It would say it increases the wearers reaction time by 500 percent, but it specifically says "of a normal human".

Where does it state that it increases someone's reaction time 500% let alone in comparison to anyone else? It merely states that it enhances reaction time by a factor of five. John is a "normal" human, not that it matters because unaugmented would be able to pilot the armour if it were not for the insane speed and strengthened musculature and skeletal structure required.

This is what @yourneighborhoodcomicgeek provided in an earlyer post.

Here's the text version.

I see a difference, it says that it enhances the "wearer's" strength, however, it then says reaction speed of a "normal human". To my knowledge MC is not a normal human, he is increased beyond a normal human by a factor of 3 without his armor.

#184 Edited by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (19884 posts) - - Show Bio

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek said:

@scorpion2501 said:

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek: It's probably to late anyways. And a few more lines and we'll hit the Chorus :p.

XD

@cable_extreme said:

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek said:

@cable_extreme said:

That is not correct calculation. If the suit enhances reaction time by a factor of 5 for a normal human, then the armor makes your reflexes 500% faster, and then you add on his 300% reflexes and you get 700%. Deathstroke is 900% enhanced.

They say that it is a factor of 5 for a normal human, but they mean that the armor amplifies their reaction speed by a factor of 5. It is because the armor hadn't been tested on SPARTAN-II's before.

And even it it is 700%, that is without Chief's adrenaline and Cortana's amp (which is a considerable amp).

It doesn't amp more for someone with a higher reaction time. That doesn't make much sense. However, Deathstroke will have adrenaline too. And reaction time is different than brain processing time. Just like Spiderman being able to see bullets in slow motion, does not mean he has a faster brain processing rate than Deathstroke. You have shown his ability to react is 700% faster than a normal person.

As Deranged Midget has explained, Chief's reaction time/reflex is a lot more potent than Slade's. And while reaction time doesn't directly convert to brain processing time, it is similar enough to do the same job. If Chief can dodge plasma with ease, he can process the data Cortana is giving him. Heck, this isn't even a debate. They've done so for 4 games already! Halo : Combat Evolved, Halo 2, Halo 3, and Halo 4 they have cooperated flawlessly.

Deathstroke, without his Nth metal armor dodges starfires energy blast ect. I highly doubt Chiefs reflexes are more "potent than Slade's".

I don't see how Starfire's blasts are that different from multiple plasma bolts. They even look the same, and there's no solid information that states Starfire's blasts are any faster.

#185 Edited by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

This is what @yourneighborhoodcomicgeek provided in an earlyer post.

Here's the text version.

I see a difference, it says that it enhances the "wearer's" strength, however, it then says reaction speed of a "normal human". To my knowledge MC is not a normal human, he is increased beyond a normal human by a factor of 3 without his armor.

No, John and other SPARTAN-II's are not considered "normal" humans but the MJOLNIR armour was built for humans nonetheless and the vast majority was built before SPARTAN's ever existed. The sole reason of the augmentation process was to enhance humans to be able to withstand the armour. There is no real defining factor to which SPARTAN's hold a superiority over normal humans as they weren't all equal.

Additionally, from my novelization of The Fall of Reach, it specifically states that only reaction time is increased by a factor of five whilst physical capabilities are only doubled, which is follows with what YNCG posted (save for the comic adaptation),which is consistent throughout the armour designs. Again, the only real defining factor we have about the augmentation is as follows:

"Your Spartans can run at bursts of up to fifty-five KPH," he explained. "Kelly can run a little faster, I think. They will only get quicker as they adjust to to the "alterations" we've made to their bodies. They can lift three times their own body weight-- which, I might add, is almost double the norm due to their increased muscle density. And they can virtually see in the dark."

Dr. Halsey pondered this new data. "They should not be performing so well. There must be unexplained synergistic effects brought on by the combined modifications. What are their reaction times?"

"Almost impossible to chart. We estimate it at twenty milliseconds," Mendez replied. He shook his head, then added, "I believe it's significantly faster in combat situations, when their adrenaline is pumping."

- Taken from Halo: The Fall of Reach, page 73

As for the statement of increasing a normal human's capabilities, there is nothing that leans to believe that it creates a special difference merely because John is a Spartan. It's merely what it is; a statement.

So as it follows, we have the basic reaction speed of twenty milliseconds, which if we take into account that of an average humans being two hundred, that puts a Spartan at ten times the speed, and as Mendez explained, it's significantly faster when their adrenaline is pumping. Other than that, the suit merely amplifies that by a factor of five and the wearer's strength by a factor of two.

So honestly, I'm not sure where you guys are getting these random percentages from and even if we were to take the given percentage of 300% for John, that would be simply multiplied by a factor of five as I explained above. There is no special exception to the fact that John is an augmented human.

Moderator
#186 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (19884 posts) - - Show Bio

@deranged_midget: Well said. Chief's reaction speed is way out of Slade's league.

#187 Edited by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek: I might be tempted to include how John and the Spartans without armour, at the age of 14 no less, were too fast for top of the line motion technology to track them and the trainers, who were equipped with enhanced armour, couldn't even track them, let alone hit them at point blank range. As you've shown with the case of John's interaction in a gravity enhanced training room and the fight with the highly-trained ODST's, John was seeing everything move in slow motion.

Add that onto the speed the MJOLNIR armour moved, which John himself could barely register the first time he tried it on and baffled even Kelly, the fastest of them all.

Moderator
#188 Posted by Cable_Extreme (8086 posts) - - Show Bio

@deranged_midget:

I feel like I might not be explaining myself good enough. This is what I am saying. The suit specifically says that it increases speed 5 times of a normal human being. To me, this means that it does not scale depending on the user. It is a set amount or why would they use "of a normal human" when describing it? So knowing this, you would not multiply Johns enhancements by 5, seeing how he is already enhanced by a factor of 3. You would simply add it on to his already enhanced factor of three (speed wise).

This is where I get my idea that he is augmented and not a "regular human". This was something presented by @yourneighborhoodcomicgeek on the previous page.

So to me, there is nothing to suggest that the suit increases john's reflexes by a factor of 5. It only enhances his reflexes by a factor of 5 of a normal human. This is what I am trying to say.

@deranged_midget: Well said. Chief's reaction speed is way out of Slade's league.

That is not the case, Slade moves as quickly as he can think, which is near instantaneous. He sees things faster than a normal human, which allows him to react faster.

#189 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@deranged_midget:

I feel like I might not be explaining myself good enough. This is what I am saying. The suit specifically says that it increases speed 5 times of a normal human being. To me, this means that it does not scale depending on the user. It is a set amount or why would they use "of a normal human" when describing it? So knowing this, you would not multiply Johns enhancements by 5, seeing how he is already enhanced by a factor of 3. You would simply add it on to his already enhanced factor of three (speed wise).

This is where I get my idea that he is augmented and not a "regular human". This was something presented by @yourneighborhoodcomicgeek on the previous page.

So to me, there is nothing to suggest that the suit increases john's reflexes by a factor of 5. It only enhances his reflexes by a factor of 5 of a normal human. This is what I am trying to say.

I really think you have it mixed up mate, I'm sorry. But there is literally no proof to support your statements... at all especially considering that I've proven that not even the CREATOR of the MJOLNIR armour and the developer of the augmentation process itself could've predicted the results that came out of the process and the enhancements the SPARTAN's received. So truthfully, I don't know why you're trying to support that angle when honestly, there is nothing to support it mate.

It's literally as simple as it comes out. The armour enhances it's wearer's reaction speed by a factor of five. Not even once does Halsey state "Oh hey, because your Spartans and your enhanced, that factor is meaningless." So honestly, I don't even know where the 300% stems from or how that impacts the SPARTANS but if we were to take that base as I mentioned above, multiplying it by a factor of five gives you the answer you're looking for.

There is nothing else to speculate. Literally, the only stats we have to go on are:

  • Twenty millisecond reaction time, which is substantially faster in combat and roughly ten times greater than that of the average human
  • This apparent 300% increase in reflexes, which is rather vague really.

So as I said my friend, there are no extra tricks behind the door for this one. I guess utilizing 300% is easier since we have a solid number to fall back on.

Moderator
#190 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (19884 posts) - - Show Bio

@deranged_midget said:

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek: I might be tempted to include how John and the Spartans without armour, at the age of 14 no less, were too fast for top of the line motion technology to track them and the trainers, who were equipped with enhanced armour, couldn't even track them, let alone hit them at point blank range. As you've shown with the case of John's interaction in a gravity enhanced training room and the fight with the highly-trained ODST's, John was seeing everything move in slow motion.

Add that onto the speed the MJOLNIR armour moved, which John himself could barely register the first time he tried it on and baffled even Kelly, the fastest of them all.

I gotcha with that scan bro.

#191 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio
Moderator
#192 Posted by Cable_Extreme (8086 posts) - - Show Bio

@cable_extreme said:

@deranged_midget:

I feel like I might not be explaining myself good enough. This is what I am saying. The suit specifically says that it increases speed 5 times of a normal human being. To me, this means that it does not scale depending on the user. It is a set amount or why would they use "of a normal human" when describing it? So knowing this, you would not multiply Johns enhancements by 5, seeing how he is already enhanced by a factor of 3. You would simply add it on to his already enhanced factor of three (speed wise).

This is where I get my idea that he is augmented and not a "regular human". This was something presented by @yourneighborhoodcomicgeek on the previous page.

So to me, there is nothing to suggest that the suit increases john's reflexes by a factor of 5. It only enhances his reflexes by a factor of 5 of a normal human. This is what I am trying to say.

I really think you have it mixed up mate, I'm sorry. But there is literally no proof to support your statements... at all especially considering that I've proven that not even the CREATOR of the MJOLNIR armour and the developer of the augmentation process itself could've predicted the results that came out of the process and the enhancements the SPARTAN's received. So truthfully, I don't know why you're trying to support that angle when honestly, there is nothing to support it mate.

It's literally as simple as it comes out. The armour enhances it's wearer's reaction speed by a factor of five. Not even once does Halsey state "Oh hey, because your Spartans and your enhanced, that factor is meaningless." So honestly, I don't even know where the 300% stems from or how that impacts the SPARTANS but if we were to take that base as I mentioned above, multiplying it by a factor of five gives you the answer you're looking for.

There is nothing else to speculate. Literally, the only stats we have to go on are:

  • Twenty millisecond reaction time, which is substantially faster in combat and roughly ten times greater than that of the average human
  • This apparent 300% increase in reflexes, which is rather vague really.

So as I said my friend, there are no extra tricks behind the door for this one. I guess utilizing 300% is easier since we have a solid number to fall back on.

I am not the one making the statements, I am skeptical of the claim that the suit enhances any wearer by a factor of 5 regardless of their abilities. That would mean that it is relative to the person. So when it is said "of an average human" would it then mean if a less than average human wore the armor, it wouldn't actually increase his skills 500% of a normal human? I am simply skeptical, which is why I am bringing this up. I don't think the armor enhances people more than anyone else, based on everything I have seen provided, it seems to be a baseline of 500% more than a normal human. Why would the same armor do more for someone than for someone else? It is the person inside that makes them faster than someone else, not the armor. So you have to take the persons stats and simply add it to the armor, since by everything I have seen, the armor is not relative to the person.

#193 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (19884 posts) - - Show Bio

@deranged_midget said:

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek: Nice! I might add in the written version though as it's more in-depth :)

I gotcha on that one, and more. I'll even do a breakdown of the good bits.

  • The self-tracking systems are unable to pinpoint the SPARTAN-II's location.
  • Numerous SPARTAN-II's out-moving the Exoskeletons.
  • John (Master Chief) is able to ambush and blitz numerous Exoskeletons.
  • Dodging a point-blank stun round shot by an Exoskeleton.
  • The SPARTAN-II's take out all the light sources and disappear in seconds.
  • It turns out the entire time the SPARTAN-II's were even fast enough to eliminate the security cameras.
  • Description of the SPARTAN-II's reaction speed and reflexes (after augmentations;without armor).

#194 Edited by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@cable_extreme said:

@deranged_midget said:

@cable_extreme said:

@deranged_midget:

I feel like I might not be explaining myself good enough. This is what I am saying. The suit specifically says that it increases speed 5 times of a normal human being. To me, this means that it does not scale depending on the user. It is a set amount or why would they use "of a normal human" when describing it? So knowing this, you would not multiply Johns enhancements by 5, seeing how he is already enhanced by a factor of 3. You would simply add it on to his already enhanced factor of three (speed wise).

This is where I get my idea that he is augmented and not a "regular human". This was something presented by @yourneighborhoodcomicgeek on the previous page.

So to me, there is nothing to suggest that the suit increases john's reflexes by a factor of 5. It only enhances his reflexes by a factor of 5 of a normal human. This is what I am trying to say.

I really think you have it mixed up mate, I'm sorry. But there is literally no proof to support your statements... at all especially considering that I've proven that not even the CREATOR of the MJOLNIR armour and the developer of the augmentation process itself could've predicted the results that came out of the process and the enhancements the SPARTAN's received. So truthfully, I don't know why you're trying to support that angle when honestly, there is nothing to support it mate.

It's literally as simple as it comes out. The armour enhances it's wearer's reaction speed by a factor of five. Not even once does Halsey state "Oh hey, because your Spartans and your enhanced, that factor is meaningless." So honestly, I don't even know where the 300% stems from or how that impacts the SPARTANS but if we were to take that base as I mentioned above, multiplying it by a factor of five gives you the answer you're looking for.

There is nothing else to speculate. Literally, the only stats we have to go on are:

  • Twenty millisecond reaction time, which is substantially faster in combat and roughly ten times greater than that of the average human
  • This apparent 300% increase in reflexes, which is rather vague really.

So as I said my friend, there are no extra tricks behind the door for this one. I guess utilizing 300% is easier since we have a solid number to fall back on.

I am not the one making the statements, I am skeptical of the claim that the suit enhances any wearer by a factor of 5 regardless of their abilities. That would mean that it is relative to the person. So when it is said "of an average human" would it then mean if a less than average human wore the armor, it wouldn't actually increase his skills 500% of a normal human? I am simply skeptical, which is why I am bringing this up. I don't think the armor enhances people more than anyone else, based on everything I have seen provided, it seems to be a baseline of 500% more than a normal human. Why would the same armor do more for someone than for someone else? It is the person inside that makes them faster than someone else, not the armor. So you have to take the persons stats and simply add it to the armor, since by everything I have seen, the armor is not relative to the person.

Dude... the armour doesn't specify on anything... It's a general enhancement, one that is not modified to fit anyone specifically. Everything I've been stating has been directly ripped from the source as proof to what I'm trying to say. Where are you getting 500% from? A factor of five does not equate to 500%. A factor of five is simply the multiplier of what the user will receive once wearing the armour, despite what their physical capabilities are mate. The ONLY reason why normal humans couldn't go through with the armour was because their skeletal structure wasn't strong enough to withstand the speed the armour gave the wearer. For example:

A flat video appeared in the air. It showed a Marine officer, a Lieutenant, being fitted with the MJOLNIR armor. "Power is on," someone said from offscreen. "Move your right arm please."

The soldier's arm blurred forward with incredible speed. The Marine's stoic expression collapsed into shock, surprise, and pain as his arm shattered. He convulsed- shuddered and screamed. As he jerked in pain John could hear the sounds of bones breaking.

The man's own agony-induced spasms were killing him.

Halsey waved the video away. "Normal humans don't have the reaction time or strength required to drive this system," she explained. "You do. Your enhanced musculature and the metal and ceramic layers that have been bonded to your skeleton should be enough to allow you to harness the armor's power. There has been... insufficient computer modelling however. There will be some risk. you'll have to move very slowly and deliberately until you get a feel for the armor and how it works. It cannot be powered down, nor can the response be scaled back. Do you understand?"

Taken from Halo: The Fall of Reach, page 115-116

There you have it, from the creator of the armour herself, Halsey states that the armour essentially has a set power rate that cannot be altered no matter what, so the way it affects the user is universal, regardless of their capabilities.

Moderator
#195 Posted by Cable_Extreme (8086 posts) - - Show Bio

@deranged_midget:

Dude... the armour doesn't specify on anything... It's a general enhancement, one that is not modified to fit anyone specifically. Everything I've been stating has been directly ripped from the source as proof to what I'm trying to say. Where are you getting 500% from? A factor of five does not equate to 500%. A factor of five is simply the multiplier of what the user will receive once wearing the armour, despite what their physical capabilities are mate. The ONLY reason why normal humans couldn't go through with the armour was because their skeletal structure wasn't strong enough to withstand the speed the armour gave the wearer. For example:

A factor of 5 means that it is 5X. Factor of something is not the power of a number. So an increase by a factor of 5 is infact 5 times that of the starting measurement. So if it is a factor of 5 of a normal human, it is 5 times as effective. Which equates to 500%. Also I would note that the 20 Millisecond timing is a estimation, which also is not too verifiable. So I don't understand why people are saying that the armor increases MC's reaction timing by a factor of 5, when it says a factor of 5 of a normal human being. I have shown that MC is not a "normal" normal human being. So he would still get the enhancements 5X a normal human, not 5X his enhanced reflexes.

There you have it, from the creator of the armour herself, Halsey states that the armour essentially has a set power rate that cannot be altered no matter what, so the way it affects the user is universal, regardless of their capabilities.

Perfect, this is what I was arguing, @yourneighborhoodcomicgeek was multiplying his original stats (which are 300% enhanced) to the factor of 5 that the suit gives you. This would be false, since it only increases a set amount, not relative to the wearer, but a factor of 5 times a normal human, as said in the scans yourneighbor.. provided. So it would be his original stats PLUS the enhancements, since it is a set rate and is not relative to the user.

#196 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@deranged_midget:

Dude... the armour doesn't specify on anything... It's a general enhancement, one that is not modified to fit anyone specifically. Everything I've been stating has been directly ripped from the source as proof to what I'm trying to say. Where are you getting 500% from? A factor of five does not equate to 500%. A factor of five is simply the multiplier of what the user will receive once wearing the armour, despite what their physical capabilities are mate. The ONLY reason why normal humans couldn't go through with the armour was because their skeletal structure wasn't strong enough to withstand the speed the armour gave the wearer. For example:

A factor of 5 means that it is 5X. Factor of something is not the power of a number. So an increase by a factor of 5 is infact 5 times that of the starting measurement. So if it is a factor of 5 of a normal human, it is 5 times as effective. Which equates to 500%. Also I would note that the 20 Millisecond timing is a estimation, which also is not too verifiable. So I don't understand why people are saying that the armor increases MC's reaction timing by a factor of 5, when it says a factor of 5 of a normal human being. I have shown that MC is not a "normal" normal human being. So he would still get the enhancements 5X a normal human, not 5X his enhanced reflexes.

There you have it, from the creator of the armour herself, Halsey states that the armour essentially has a set power rate that cannot be altered no matter what, so the way it affects the user is universal, regardless of their capabilities.

Perfect, this is what I was arguing, @yourneighborhoodcomicgeek was multiplying his original stats (which are 300% enhanced) to the factor of 5 that the suit gives you. This would be false, since it only increases a set amount, not relative to the wearer, but a factor of 5 times a normal human, as said in the scans yourneighbor.. provided. So it would be his original stats PLUS the enhancements, since it is a set rate and is not relative to the user.

Yes, I have stated multiple times by now. The armour has a set enhancement of a factor of five. If John's physical capabilities are superior to that of a human's and which they are, his stats will be multiplied by five- hence the statement of a factor of five. And why are you trying to detract from proof? It's literally stated right there. A rough estimate of their reaction time when they are in a calm state. They are even quicker in combat.

So yes, the suit enhances the capabilities of whoever is wearing the armour by a multiple of five, regardless of whether they be "normal" or "augmented". So yes, John's enhanced reflexes are getting multiplied by a factor of five. I'm not sure why you aren't understanding that mate. There is literally nothing to state otherwise.

And with your last point, I think you are contradicting yourself. 300% multiplied by 5 is not 700%. It's simple, basic math. There are no secret, devious stats in play here. It is what it is. Please stop trying to make it more complicated than it really is. Your constant focus on the fact that it's five times that of a normal human doesn't make any sense whatsoever considering if that were the case, humans wouldn't have much trouble dealing with the armour's reaction speed at all and that John himself had trouble at first with it.

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#197 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (19884 posts) - - Show Bio

Perfect, this is what I was arguing, @yourneighborhoodcomicgeek was multiplying his original stats (which are 300% enhanced) to the factor of 5 that the suit gives you.

I never multiplied the original stats. I said that and a factor of five with MJOLNIR on would easily be over 15 times the average reaction speed of a normal human.

#198 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

Perfect, this is what I was arguing, @yourneighborhoodcomicgeek was multiplying his original stats (which are 300% enhanced) to the factor of 5 that the suit gives you.

I never multiplied the original stats. I said that and a factor of five with MJOLNIR on would easily be over 15 times the average reaction speed of a normal human.

Where did you get the numbers for reaction speed being three times that of a normal human?

Moderator
#199 Posted by Cable_Extreme (8086 posts) - - Show Bio

Perfect, this is what I was arguing, @yourneighborhoodcomicgeek was multiplying his original stats (which are 300% enhanced) to the factor of 5 that the suit gives you.

I never multiplied the original stats. I said that and a factor of five with MJOLNIR on would easily be over 15 times the average reaction speed of a normal human.

5 times 3 would be 15.... You did times them. You took his original stats which is three hundred percent faster than normal and applied it to the armor, which according to your sources enhances the wearer 5 times that of a normal human, not of the wearer themselves.

#200 Edited by Cable_Extreme (8086 posts) - - Show Bio

@deranged_midget: Said:

Yes, I have stated multiple times by now. The armour has a set enhancement of a factor of five. If John's physical capabilities are superior to that of a human's and which they are, his stats will be multiplied by five- hence the statement of a factor of five. And why are you trying to detract from proof? It's literally stated right there. A rough estimate of their reaction time when they are in a calm state. They are even quicker in combat.

So yes, the suit enhances the capabilities of whoever is wearing the armour by a multiple of five, regardless of whether they be "normal" or "augmented". So yes, John's enhanced reflexes are getting multiplied by a factor of five. I'm not sure why you aren't understanding that mate. There is literally nothing to state otherwise.

And with your last point, I think you are contradicting yourself. 300% multiplied by 5 is not 700%. It's simple, basic math. There are no secret, devious stats in play here. It is what it is. Please stop trying to make it more complicated than it really is. Your constant focus on the fact that it's five times that of a normal human doesn't make any sense whatsoever considering if that were the case, humans wouldn't have much trouble dealing with the armour's reaction speed at all and that John himself had trouble at first with it

The armor has a set enhancement that is a factor of 5 of a normal human.

Here's the text version.

You even brought up the maker of the suit saying that the enhancements cannot be changed. So why would it enhance you more than a normal human? It is not relative to the wearer since their abilities do not change the suits enhancements.

As for the math part, it is 800%, I was not aware I put 700%, forgive me.

If you provide proof for the underlined statement, Ill admit to you being correct, however, based on these two scans, and the scan that you provided about the armor not being able to change, I am saying his enhancements are at 800%. Reason being is the armor enhances you by a factor of 5 of that of a "normal human" which equates to 500% and his enhancements that add onto 500% for 300%.