#1 Posted by WarlordEternal (2421 posts) - - Show Bio

Massacre vs Mongul Sr.

Location: Sakaar

Round 1

H2H

No prep

No BFR

Round 2

No Holds Barred

1 day prep

Round 3

H2H

No prep

No BFR

Sr. gets help from Jr.

Massacre gets help from Maxima

Round 4

No Holds Barred

1 day prep

Mongul Jr. gets his rings

Victory is by KO, incapacitation or Death

#2 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio

Massacre defeated Pre-Blue Superman and was defeated by him mostly due to being arogant. His speed would also be a problem for Mongul. Massacre ftw.

#3 Posted by WarlordEternal (2421 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666 said:

Massacre defeated Pre-Blue Superman and was defeated by him mostly due to being arogant.

Whats Pre-Blue Superman

Massacre ftw.

All rounds?

#4 Posted by logy5000 (5791 posts) - - Show Bio

Mongul.

#5 Posted by WarlordEternal (2421 posts) - - Show Bio

@logy5000: Any particular reasons?

#6 Posted by terry2012 (5223 posts) - - Show Bio

1. PC Mongul

2. PC Mongul

3. Massacre and Maxima

4. PC Mongul and Mongul Jr.

#7 Posted by logy5000 (5791 posts) - - Show Bio

@WarlordEternal: He slapped around PC Superman.

#8 Posted by WarlordEternal (2421 posts) - - Show Bio

@terry2012 said:

1. PC Mongul

2. PC Mongul

3. Massacre and Maxima

4. PC Mongul and Mongul Jr.

@logy5000 said:

@WarlordEternal: He slapped around PC Superman.

This is Post Crisis Mongul Sr.

sorry

Though the "For the man who has everything" story does count in that continuity.

#9 Posted by logy5000 (5791 posts) - - Show Bio

@WarlordEternal: If that's the case, I'm not sure who wins.

#10 Posted by WarlordEternal (2421 posts) - - Show Bio

@logy5000 said:

@WarlordEternal: If that's the case, I'm not sure who wins.

Well Post Crisis Mongul Sr., through drastically depowered, was still slightly stronger than Superman, as with some of there fights, Superman has had help defeating him IIRC. Mongul Sr. has man handled Hal Jordan and Kyle Rayner, though he did eventually lose those fights; however, "For the man who has everything" still counts in Post Crisis continuity as it as bee constantly referenced. So technically post crisis Mongul Sr. fought and beat the hell out of Wonder Woman and then had a vicious battle with Superman which he almost won.

I'm not a big expert on Massacre but I do know that Superman has compared his striking power to Doomsday.

#11 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio
@WarlordEternal said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

Massacre defeated Pre-Blue Superman and was defeated by him mostly due to being arogant.

Whats Pre-Blue Superman

Massacre ftw.

All rounds?

1.Superman just before his transformation in Blue-energy version. This one was already stronger than one that fought with DOS Doomsday. 
2.Maybe besides round 2 - yes. Mongul is too slow for him and in battle with Superman both were using there speed and Massacre was simply faster. Jt. is close to be featless. Even PC Mongul doesn't have speed feats to my knowledge. I am not sure about his defence to telepathy. 
 
Besides, since this is Post-Crisis (I thought about Pre-Crisis) Mongul, then it is a stomp in Massacre favor.
#12 Posted by WarlordEternal (2421 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666 said:

1.Superman just before his transformation in Blue-energy version. This one was already stronger than one that fought with DOS Doomsday.

Oh okay.

2.Maybe besides round 2 - yes. Mongul is too slow for him and in battle with Superman both were using there speed and Massacre was simply faster. Jt. is close to be featless. Even PC Mongul doesn't have speed feats to my knowledge.

Well PC Mongul has contended with Superman in mid flight and has dominated most of their fights. That has to show an extraordinary reflex speed.

But since this isn't him the I guess this is irrelevant.

or do you think I should change it to PC Mongul?

Besides, since this is Post-Crisis (I thought about Pre-Crisis) Mongul, then it is a stomp in Massacre favor.

Even Round 4?

Both teams get a day of prep and Mongul Jr has his rings.

#13 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio
@WarlordEternal said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

2.Maybe besides round 2 - yes. Mongul is too slow for him and in battle with Superman both were using there speed and Massacre was simply faster. Jt. is close to be featless. Even PC Mongul doesn't have speed feats to my knowledge.

Well PC Mongul has contended with Superman in mid flight and has dominated most of their fights. That has to show an extraordinary reflex speed.

But since this isn't him the I guess this is irrelevant.

or do you think I should change it to PC Mongul?

Besides, since this is Post-Crisis (I thought about Pre-Crisis) Mongul, then it is a stomp in Massacre favor.

Even Round 4?

Both teams get a day of prep and Mongul Jr has his rings.

1.Until it was shown that both were using superspeed and this speed can be compared to anything else, then it doesn't matter. Hulk was able to fight with Sentry, Surfer and Gladiator, yet he isn't even close to their fighting-speed.
2.I don't think it would matter, until other Mongul have good reflex speed. It would be just matter of time for Massacre IMO. Depends on Mongul's durability of course.
3.Teams? I thought that in 4th round we have only Junior and Massacre.
#14 Posted by WarlordEternal (2421 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666 said:

1.Until it was shown that both were using superspeed and this speed can be compared to anything else, then it doesn't matter. Hulk was able to fight with Sentry, Surfer and Gladiator, yet he isn't even close to their fighting-speed.

I always thought of "reflex speed" and "super speed" as two different things.

2.I don't think it would matter, until other Mongul have good reflex speed. It would be just matter of time for Massacre IMO. Depends on Mongul's durability of course.

Which Mongul? Pre or Post?

3.Teams? I thought that in 4th round we have only Junior and Massacre.

At Round 3 both Mongul Jr and Maxima enter the fray. Its purely an H2H fight. Then at Round 4 they get prep and Mongul Jr gets his rings.

#15 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio
@WarlordEternal said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

1.Until it was shown that both were using superspeed and this speed can be compared to anything else, then it doesn't matter. Hulk was able to fight with Sentry, Surfer and Gladiator, yet he isn't even close to their fighting-speed.

I always thought of "reflex speed" and "super speed" as two different things.

2.I don't think it would matter, until other Mongul have good reflex speed. It would be just matter of time for Massacre IMO. Depends on Mongul's durability of course.

Which Mongul? Pre or Post?

3.Teams? I thought that in 4th round we have only Junior and Massacre.

At Round 3 both Mongul Jr and Maxima enter the fray. Its purely an H2H fight. Then at Round 4 they get prep and Mongul Jr gets his rings.

1.Super reflex speed :-P Point is that Massacre showed ability to fight at high speed - Mongul (to my knowledge) didn't.
2.Pre. Post can't take it for sure.
3.Then Sr. prep with Jr rings should give them win. It is possible at least.
#16 Posted by WarlordEternal (2421 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666 said:

1.Super reflex speed :-P Point is that Massacre showed ability to fight at high speed - Mongul (to my knowledge) didn't.

Gotcha.

2.Pre. Post can't take it for sure.

PC Mongul was an absolute beast. He defeated members of the Justice League effortlessly and took on Superman and the Legion of Superheroes at the same time. Superman just barely managed to win that fight as he passed out immediately after. Mongul also beat Wonder Woman with in an inch of her life not to mention she broke her own hand by just punching his face.

3.Then Sr. prep with Jr rings should give them win. It is possible at least.

Okay.

#17 Posted by terry2012 (5223 posts) - - Show Bio

@WarlordEternal: What the feats and scans of Massacre?

#18 Posted by Nefarious (20461 posts) - - Show Bio

Massacre wins.

#19 Posted by WarlordEternal (2421 posts) - - Show Bio

@terry2012 said:

@WarlordEternal: What the feats and scans of Massacre?

I just know Superman has compared his striking power to Doomsday

While Post Crisis Mongul isn't nearly as powerful as he used to be(lowered to being equal to superman in strength), you have to keep in mind what each round has going for the combatants.

@Nefarious said:

Massacre wins.

All rounds?

#20 Posted by terry2012 (5223 posts) - - Show Bio

@WarlordEternal: Yeah, but this is a weaker version of superman. Because is this the same one that got one shot by Orion? which is the one who was stalemated by Icon?

#21 Posted by Rumble Man (11119 posts) - - Show Bio

Doesn't mas have precog or sumthn?

#22 Posted by Stronger (4948 posts) - - Show Bio

Mongul

#23 Posted by WarlordEternal (2421 posts) - - Show Bio

@terry2012 said:

@WarlordEternal: Yeah, but this is a weaker version of superman. Because is this the same one that got one shot by Orion? which is the one who was stalemated by Icon?

So what you're saying is that this was a weaker version of Superman which would mean that Massacre isn't that powerful?

#24 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio
@WarlordEternal said:

@terry2012 said:

@WarlordEternal: Yeah, but this is a weaker version of superman. Because is this the same one that got one shot by Orion? which is the one who was stalemated by Icon?

So what you're saying is that this was a weaker version of Superman which would mean that Massacre isn't that powerful?

How was it weaker version? It was version stronger than one that fought with Doomsday. Whole time since Lobo came to Earth, Clark was saying that he is more and more powerfull. He was suprised that he could throw space ship that was as big as small moon (possibly very small moon, considering whole story, but point stands). Lobo was admitting the same thing.
#25 Posted by terry2012 (5223 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666: He not Silver Age Superman. So how is he not a weaker version?

@WarlordEternal: He isn't if they had to water down Pre Crisis Mongul to Post Crisis Mongul. If this was Pre-Crisis Mongul than he wouldn't stand a chance. Just like almost everyone thought it was Pre-crisis Mongul and not Post- crisis Mongul. Anyway I still stand on my decision.

#26 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio
@terry2012 said:

@czarny_samael666: He not Silver Age Superman. So how is he not a weaker version?

@WarlordEternal: He isn't if they had to water down Pre Crisis Mongul to Post Crisis Mongul. If this was Pre-Crisis Mongul than he wouldn't stand a chance. Just like almost everyone thought it was Pre-crisis Mongul and not Post- crisis Mongul. Anyway I still stand on my decision.

LOL I didn't thought that You're talking about PC Supe. I don't see why even PC Mongul should win with Massacre. IDK any of his reflex speed.
#27 Posted by termiteone4ever (7409 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666 said:

Massacre defeated Pre-Blue Superman and was defeated by him mostly due to being arogant. His speed would also be a problem for Mongul. Massacre ftw.

I agree and his power to predict is pretty good plus his strength is up there . I recall Superman said he hits hard and he never been hit that hard since doomsday.

#28 Posted by terry2012 (5223 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666: Is you talking about Pre crisis Mongul or Post Crisis Mongul that you don't see why he should win? Neither did Darkseid show any reflex speed and yet it said his speed surprise Superman. Neither does Grundy, Lobo, or any other powerhouse. For someone who can fight at super sonic speed and can react to super sonic oneself would think no powerhouse would ever tough him. Speed isn't everything in battle. Plus superman gets tired and worn down. Just think, If they ever give speed to the powerhouses whom more powerful than superman would he ever win? They have to lower them in power just to give superman a chance. Heck he tag by Magnar.

#29 Posted by Nefarious (20461 posts) - - Show Bio
@WarlordEternal: I think so.
#30 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio
@terry2012 said:

@czarny_samael666: Is you talking about Pre crisis Mongul or Post Crisis Mongul that you don't see why he should win? Neither did Darkseid show any reflex speed and yet it said his speed surprise Superman. Neither does Grundy, Lobo, or any other powerhouse. For someone who can fight at super sonic speed and can react to super sonic oneself would think no powerhouse would ever tough him. Speed isn't everything in battle. Plus superman gets tired and worn down. Just think, If they ever give speed to the powerhouses whom more powerful than superman would he ever win? They have to lower them in power just to give superman a chance. Heck he tag by Magnar.

And DS would lose to out of morals speedsters too. Massacre used it in character.
Grundy is nothing. 
Lobo also doesn't have super speed and only HF could help him, but it depedns. Normally - Lobo would also lose to out-of-character speedster or Massacre.
#31 Posted by terry2012 (5223 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666: DS wouldn't lose out of morals speedster. Because he is there to test Superman.

Grundy strongest version is not nothing. He took on the whole JLS or was that JLA.

Lobo would not lose to out-of-character speedster or Massacre. Because he is immortal the last time I check.

Saying that would mean you also agree that superman would lose to the Flash.

#32 Posted by Thorcules (68 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm going to go with Massacre.