Mass Effect vs Starcraft!! 2v2!

@noah_ouellette:Shepard isn't a great strategist like the SC2 leadership is. The canon of the game missions is that the Terran leaders are almost always fighting down against vastly superior forces and coming out on top. Shepard is certainly better in the field than a terran leader (Kerrigan would slaughter pretty much anyone in this incarnation), but tactically I question him.

Ground Biotics can do what exactly? As far as I can tell every weapon in ME is already in SC, if not inferior to it's SC counterpart. SC units have hypersonic rounds, EMPs, cloaking, the works. They also have better artillery and scouting units. They're elites are arguably better as well.

We've SC ships do a lot, a lot more than most ME ships. Battlecruisers have massive firing arrays that can bombard planets from orbit, have absurd armor and then a shield on top of that, have a crazy powerful main canon, and are fast. Vikings are pretty excellent AA, as are Thors in the Lore (which can self heal and shoot air and ground at the same time as well as tank nuclear weapons). We haven't even begun to talk about the fact that every unit in SC is capable of being repaired/healed on the fly as part of the standard combat package.

We haven't begun talking about the zerg forces, which alone render the shields useless because lore nydus worms are obscene. How the hell are the ME crew dealing with anything that's coming from below them and releasing zerglings on them? By the way, incase you didn't realize it, zerglins are basically the size of a Nissan leaf, and about as fast, with appendages that pierce terran armor (which also tanks hypersonic rounds and 270mm artillery fire). And we still haven't even talked about more than half the units in SC, we haven't even exhausted half the units of a single Race.

SC has superior forces in space and on the ground. Tactics wise their leaders are better. 1-on-1 Kerrigan will crush basically anyone. How exactly does ME win here?

@dratini1331 said:

@teerack said:

@jwwprod: That's cute but in terms of scale the biggest Terran ship doesn't even equal a reaper leg. They might be able to kill a few reapers, but not before most of their forces are cut in half with a bunch of swiping lasers.

?????? BattleCruisers are basically the same size as reapers? Especially the actual fleet class ones used by the dominion in HotS?

I do wish I could find better pictures, but yea, the basic battlecruisers are roughly the same size, not to mention the big ones, which to put into perspective:

And to put the Zerg into perspective:

So no, the reapers aren't that big, and they still have inferior firepower anyways.

The Cruiser are way smaller. You are comparing a Reaper far away from a city with a cruiser up close to a city. The entire skyline fits underneath it wile a star cruiser is more part of the skyline when placed in a city.

The Zerg are the biggest reason why Reapers would win for sure since it has been proven multiple times with the rachni and The Thorian spores in mass effect that any hive minded being is child's play for a single Reaper to indoctrinate and mind control, so with a whole army of them trying it would be even more of a joke to take them over. They are just a massive liability in this fight. Zerg also are nothing but exposed flesh so converting them to synthetic slaves would be easy. Taking into account how fast Zerg multiply once they turn one spawning grounds they'd instantly have a zerg army to fight for them and help convert the rest.

@teerack: Did you even look at the pictures? The front end of a AVERAGEBattlecruiser is bigger than skyscrapers. Your image is also force perspective, since you can clearly see all the legs in the image. Better picture:

You can clearly see the reapers aren't larger, or even if they are, the difference between them and an AVERAGEBattlecruiser is tiny. Saying Reapers are larger than Gorgon class Battlecruisers (Twice the size of a regular one) is flat out wrong.

Reaper mind control? Proven? Kerrigan was a galactic level telepath in BW, got several times stronger lore wise (especially in regards to controlling the Zerg) and you think the reapers have jack on that? Kerrigan can, and would, dominate the swarm regardless, especially after HotS. She's significantly stronger than any character in ME (to my knowledge), and even she can't Psionic them into the dirt, there's no way they could actually control the Zerg. For starters, better beings than them, or at the very least equivocal have tried, and all have failed.

The Xel' Naga created the Zerg, have designed immensely powerful artifacts to control them. The Xel' Naga could control all the overminds, but Kerrigan is a completely different beast, especially after the events of HotS. Her powers are absolutely dominating, comparing the Zerg Swarm to groups the reapers controlled is a joke. Kerrigan also essentially at this point has ascended to Zerg godhood and can dominate any Zerg as shown by her subjugation of the wild Zerg.

The Xel' Naga have tried everything the Reapers have, and the difference is that the races in SC didn't fall, in fact, they're all currently rebelling. What proof is there that the Reapers will fair any better?

Even more to the point, what does the ME crew actually have that isn't outclassed here? We've already been through the reapers (which still are outclassed by firepower, forget size), and despite people saying, "Oh they have shields!" What can ME do here? There weapons are on par, or flat out worse, and the SC2 crew has vastly superior diversity between self healing and the swath of units they can field.

@dratini1331 said:

@teerack: Did you even look at the pictures? The front end of a AVERAGEBattlecruiser is bigger than skyscrapers. Your image is also force perspective, since you can clearly see all the legs in the image. Better picture:

You can clearly see the reapers aren't larger, or even if they are, the difference between them and an AVERAGEBattlecruiser is tiny. Saying Reapers are larger than Gorgon class Battlecruisers (Twice the size of a regular one) is flat out wrong.

Reaper mind control? Proven? Kerrigan was a galactic level telepath in BW, got several times stronger lore wise (especially in regards to controlling the Zerg) and you think the reapers have jack on that? Kerrigan can, and would, dominate the swarm regardless, especially after HotS. She's significantly stronger than any character in ME (to my knowledge), and even she can't Psionic them into the dirt, there's no way they could actually control the Zerg. For starters, better beings than them, or at the very least equivocal have tried, and all have failed.

The Xel' Naga created the Zerg, have designed immensely powerful artifacts to control them. The Xel' Naga could control all the overminds, but Kerrigan is a completely different beast, especially after the events of HotS. Her powers are absolutely dominating, comparing the Zerg Swarm to groups the reapers controlled is a joke. Kerrigan also essentially at this point has ascended to Zerg godhood and can dominate any Zerg as shown by her subjugation of the wild Zerg.

The Xel' Naga have tried everything the Reapers have, and the difference is that the races in SC didn't fall, in fact, they're all currently rebelling. What proof is there that the Reapers will fair any better?

Even more to the point, what does the ME crew actually have that isn't outclassed here? We've already been through the reapers (which still are outclassed by firepower, forget size), and despite people saying, "Oh they have shields!" What can ME do here? There weapons are on par, or flat out worse, and the SC2 crew has vastly superior diversity between self healing and the swath of units they can field.

Do you know nothing about the history of the Zerg? Trying to say that the zerg hive mind can't be corrupted or controlled is something you can only believe if you skip every single cut scene in the games and don't follow the story at all... it's been a part of literally every zerg story arch.... and some of the teran/protoss ones.

They aren't outclassed in anything actually. Reaper teach would be better then Terran tech. They have existed for Melinda longer then humanity and taken down races more advanced then humanity ever got to and added their tech/knowledge into their fold.

@teerack: No, What I'm saying is that you're ignoring the entire plot of HotS and BW, which was the Zerg breaking the control because Kerrigan exists. That's literally the entire purpose of HotS, with the trip to Zerus, and them defeating the Xel' Naga agent, and pretty much everything that Zeratul has been up to. So when you say:

it's been a part of literally every zerg story arch.... and some of the teran/protoss ones.

I'd completely agree considering that 2 entire games have been about the Zerg breaking outside control (Brood War from the overmind and HotS from the Xel' Naga). They have plenty of resistance to the tactics you're trying to use. Why are the reapers any better than the others that have tried?

They aren't outclassed in anything actually. Reaper teach would be better then Terran tech. They have existed for Melinda longer then humanity and taken down races more advanced then humanity ever got to and added their tech/knowledge into their fold.

then bring out some numbers or real feats. So far all you've said is that reapers are bigger (which they aren't) and nothing else. You've literally done nothing to actually defend ME, which means they're either getting stomped or you need real feats. Just because they've been around longer doesn't mean jack. Time Lords were around before Daleks, doesn't mean the Daleks aren't their equals. Furthermore, all of your points are based on ME humanity, which is not the same as taking on the Zerg or Terran dominion.

You have to have some kind of actual numbers here. The Zerg have feats of resistance, and reapers being old is about as relevant as what my shoe size is. Do you have any actual feats to use or are you just going to keep going on about the magical reapers without proving anything?

@dratini1331: There are different factions of zerg. They would only need to corrupt a small amount to make an army quickly.

@teerack: What do you think is going on with this OP exactly? He specified end of HotS, and at the end of HotS Kerrigan already brought every major faction under her control. OP specified end of HotS Zerg army, which means Reapers aren't infecting anyone. You still haven't proven reapers don't get blown out of existence yet either, how do they handle nuclear strikes and yamato canons?

Also, what rounds are the ground troops firing? Where's the proof the guns are hypersonic (not even questioning this, I just want to know where to find some ME lore)? The Terran Gauss Rifles fire 9mm Spikes at hypersonic speeds, which is basically shooting railroad spikes at Mach 5+.

It is part of the very nature of the zerg that the lesser zergs want to take control over the hive. It's an instinct thing so it's kind of crazy to say that the reapers wouldn't be able to get to any of the zerg under her control. With the way Reapers assimilate the organics they kill as well it would make a lot of sense for them to be able to create a synthetic overmind to just take the swarm from her. There was already a synthetic rachini queen in Mass Effect so the idea if highly plausible considering how willing the swam is to try and spawn a new overmind ever change it gets. These are all just things that would matter if Karrigan a character who has been showed to be heavily effected from outside influences in the past could resist the influences of a nearly endless arm of titanic psychic reapers.

The humans in mass effect had nukes and then some and it didn't help them turn the tides of battle. In fact things like nukes would probably end up making sure organics couldn't win against the reapers since it would ruin the things they need to live.

Talking about guns is not going to help your case for the terans. You think the Gauss Rifles sound impressive? Let me tell you about a gun from mass effect.

Blackstar:

The Reaper weapon nicknamed "Blackstar" is so advanced that Alliance scientists can only offer speculation about how it works. The gun appears to exploit an element zero core and mass effect fields to fire gravitational singularities--micro black holes--that revert to their natural lethality when they impact a solid object. Researchers theorize that the blast tears apart the strong nuclear forces that hold the target's atoms together, resulting in a localized fusion reaction in light atoms and a fission reaction in heavy atoms. If that hypothesis is correct, the weapon alters nuclei, thus changing the chemical composition of the target. It destroys organic tissue, corrodes surviving armor, and leaves a visible trail of light-emitting particles.

Although some might argue that the Blackstar's single-launch capability makes it a liability, its capacity for utter destruction is essential when the user requires large-scale, instantaneous damage.

@teerack: So basically I'm assuming you never played HotS, because you're literally reciting an entire plot line of the Xl' Naga, which already failed, and you're completely ignoring all of HotS and Brood War's story to try and paint it like the Reapers can control Kerrigan or the Zerg. After 2 entire storylines of Kerrigan completely subjugating groups doing what the Reapers are, what makes the reapers special?

Except this is just a straight up fight, and the Dominion has already proven they care very little about living space after Tarsonis. Do you have any actual proof of Reapers surviving weapons hitting for megatons of damage? What about Yamato Canons? Can you even penetrate a standard defensive matrix? A battery array took out the reaper on Ranoch, why would they go down to yamato blasts, or even standard firing arrays?

No, I think that literally the Guass rifle is the most basic weapon the terrans have. The black hole gun is cute and all, but I asked for standard battle weapons that the troops have. The Blackstar isn't any different than psionic storms are in SC, ripping people apart on an atomic level. It's not unique or special, or even really intimidating. If that's all the ME team has going for them, this is a slaughter.

I did play it and if you actually think about why it didn't work then you wouldn't have made that point...

The reapers that were killed only went down after tons of different cruisers focused fire on them and if you actually look up the codex entries you can see that some of the rifles in mass effect were able pack the power of a nuke. Because of element zero they are able to super charge their rounds to impossibly high velocities and surrounded in mass effect fields able to blast through anything. Saying that all of the ships blasting at the reapers that weren't able to take them down were shooting blasts that were at least as strong as nukes is a hilarious underestimation of how strong those blasts there so yes they would not go down instantly.

You can have reasons for thinking that SC can win but if you just look into the actual lore the Alliance and the Reapers are more technology advanced in both offensive weapons, defenses tech, and medical tech. I haven't even mentioned mechs or the tons of other guns that make teran tech seem outdated. Terna's also need a lot or resources to maintain their forces but with element zero that's a non-issue for the ME people.

Megatons are also kinetic based so they wouldn't be able to do anything against mass effect ships/reapers unless they were coated in their own mass effect field.... I think a few yamato blasts could take down a reaper, but yamato cannons requite a lot of power and can't be maintained so you can't think statically and think they could win the whole fight.

The Reapers have a long history of being able to exploit races that have some kind of hive mind link. The zerg have a long history of being exploited because of their hive mind. Blizzard writing goes in circles and it will probably happen again.

I haven't even mentioned bionic amps. It's pretty much standard for every solider to have implants in mass effect to have very strong psychic powers, cable of all sorts of things. Some of them even comparable to kerrigan's upper limits.

I'm only going to make my decision about this based on facts. I'm not going to debate if I think Kerrigan is more special then the reapers.

@teerack: Basically at this point we're not going anywhere. The actual feats I've seen from reapers continue to make me believe reapers are pretty meh. The multitude of cruisers hit all of 5 shots, all of which weren't any more damaging than anything in starcraft, and it's absolutely hilarious to consider anything they were shooting in the range of a nuke, especially considering the hits were demonstrably worse than siegetank fire. After researching reapers, I doubt they could survive the Battcruiser hitting the planet in the HotS trailer at this point.

You keep talking about things that these ships can do, but then when I ask you say, "Go look it up". You know what I've found? The reapers are still meh at best. They get shot down by standard issue plasma canons, and there's nothing that implies they'd control the zerg or that they'd be capable of facing the terran dominion.

At this point it's agree to disagree, so I'd say take your closing argument.

@dratini1331: but why stop provide evidence so far ive seen nothing but lack of evidence from both sides honestly.

@killerwasp: Because other than talking about plot we haven't discussed anything, which is something we're both aware of.

Team 2 wrecks in space and ground, Just send one leviathan, and it would wreck

@dratini1331: i meant start lol.

@mimisalome: more times than you can count. The crucible is not the Reapers. Further, Synthesis ending didn't mean everyone got indoctrinated. Learn to comprehend a story.

Mass effect stomps.

Care to explain, no TP first of all. Second of all ME fleet is in the thousands same with reapers terran dominion's fleet is literally 200 ships strong period, most of which are not only smaller than the reaper's ships, but also do less damage.

Lore doesn't matter, Star wars has more lore than warhammer doesn't mean star wars stomps.

@dratini1331 said:

@teerack said:

@jwwprod: That's cute but in terms of scale the biggest Terran ship doesn't even equal a reaper leg. They might be able to kill a few reapers, but not before most of their forces are cut in half with a bunch of swiping lasers.

?????? BattleCruisers are basically the same size as reapers? Especially the actual fleet class ones used by the dominion in HotS?

I do wish I could find better pictures, but yea, the basic battlecruisers are roughly the same size, not to mention the big ones, which to put into perspective:

And to put the Zerg into perspective:

So no, the reapers aren't that big, and they still have inferior firepower anyways.

That's cute, too bad once more as I said thousands on ME side, only 200 terran ships for them, and Zerg only got 1 of those things. Guess who wins.... Megatons vs ur weaktons.

Weakest excuse over stated. Mass effect stomps, they carry mini nukes with them as a soldier. Ghosts only call down nukes, kinda hard call to call down nukes when we wreck you from space and every win we take we can use it way more than you guys.

@merulezall: Dude LOL

That's what you just did lol

@killerwasp: Dude these SC nerds need to be put into their place, can't wait to point out all the dumb flaws and fallacies they are gonna pull out so badly. Man it's making me laugh real hard Lol.

@merulezall: Where are you getting your numbers from? There are a multitude of leviathans in SC. There are only 2 directly in the games, but it's stated that there are more in the extended lore

http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Leviathan

Where do you find that the dominion fleet is 200 ships? Even more to the point:

http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Nuclear_missile

http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Battlecruiser

Odin classes and Behemoth class Battlecruisers carry nuclear weapons as well as their normal payload. "Mini-Nukes" means basically nothing, what's the payload, what's the damage output?

I'm sure ME could win if anyone would actually talk about anything they can do instead of just saying, "ME wins because ME".

@merulezall: Battlecruiser ordinance damage yield is in megatons. Reapers have been taken down by ships whose ordinance is measured in kilotons. A Systems Alliance dreadnought's (of which humanity has less than 10) main gun has a damage yield of 38 kilotons A megaton is ONE THOUSANDS kilotons. Battlecruisers one shot Reapers. End of story. Terran spacecraft are in a completely different league than Mass Effect.

@dratini1331: I'm getting the numbers from the game which is above all LORE. Did you even pay attention to the sc2 WoL game?

Read it and weep, yes that's half the fleet he had under his control to attack the zerg. It also got wrecked. What makes u think ships that can get owned by land tanks are going to handle something that fires a lot more firepower????

Might want to pay attention next time. Oh and I lied 200 was generous, you got a limit of 100 ships LOL

http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Dominion_Fleet

Prove me wrong and my answer will change, until then ME stomps your tiny weak fleet in space. Better start relying on the zerg more.

Lets also not forget we are faster than you, our hit and run tactics spread across the galaxy of this battle means reapers, and everyone else is going to feed after every victory we win. Making it even more one sided. On top of that ME factions have shielding and armor, neither of you guys got shields and one of you is extremely weak while the other is meh. Do the math.

Odin classes and Behemoth class Battlecruisers carry nuclear weapons as well as their normal payload. "Mini-Nukes" means basically nothing, what's the payload, what's the damage output?

I'm sure ME could win if anyone would actually talk about anything they can do instead of just saying, "ME wins because ME".

Oh ME wins because your own lore is against. Nukes? really? Nukes are 3 times less powerful than our rounds in the ME universe. Btw nice proof of megatons Lol.

You do realize our dreadnoughts these boys here,

Fire tons of guns including those rounds 3 times more powerful than your lovely nukes. Is this seriously why we would lose the war due to nukes? Lol!

Once more, evidence of our ships,

Anyway come back to me when you bring some proof rather than saying "oh the otherside isnt providing it so we wont either!" That's just beyond silly right there. Your ships are garbage, can prolly be hacked anyway. We can fire our guns faster than yours, they can hit further than yours, and lastly they hit harder than yours. All while please do remember we've mass produced dreadnoughts very quickly, and the only reason why we have so low of them is cause we put a cap on them our personal cap, this isnt in character, so that will no longer apply. Plus Humanity is always advancing while your two forces take forever to do anything else but sit on the tech you already got.

Proof of our numbers thousands at least for humans not counting our alien allies, and reapers were way more.

Proof of how quick we can build them. Do read I'm using humans as an example, and they had hardly jack in the ME universe compared to the other races. Them and the others now have tons of more planets under their control and can construct even faster, once more providing fuel for the war and these were the heavy ones. This doesn't count all the other ships we got. Either way we out number ur Terran fleet by a large amount and the reapers have yet to come. Good work though!

The Treaty of Farixen stipulates the amount of dreadnoughts a navy may own, with the turian peacekeeping fleet being allowed the most. As of 2183, the turians had 37 dreadnoughts, the asari had 21, the salarians had 16, and the Alliance had 6 with another under construction. As of 2185, the dreadnought count was 39 turian, 20 asari, 16 salarian, and 8 human. By 2186, humans construct a ninth dreadnought, and the volus have built a single dreadnought of their own. Th egeth, unbound by the treaty, possess almost as many dreadnoughts as the turians. In preparation for the retaking of their homeworld, the quarians fitted their Liveships with dreadnought cannons, effectively making them dreadnought-class vessels. The batarians are stated to possess dreadnoughts, but the exact number is unknown.

-Mass Effect Wiki

Now bow before ME, weakling.

First off that's a lot of Kilotons per shot which can go off quite a bit.

Capital Ship: Also known as Sovereign-class, the two-kilometer-long Capital Ships are the most well-known Reaper subtype. Their main weapon is a spinal mounted "magnetohydrodynamic" cannon with a yield of 132 to 450 kilotons of TNT, which dwarfs the main gun of an Everest-class Alliance dreadnought. No known ship, not even a dreadnought, has been known to survive a hit from this weapon. Capital Ships are also armed with multiple cannons in their "tendrils" capable of shearing through most opposing vessels in a single hit, a point defense system (similar to the GARDIANsystems favored by organics) for anti-fighter and anti-projectile purposes, and are capable of unleashing swarms ofOculi drones to engage fighter-sized craft. They are extremely durable, capable of taking the continuous and simultaneous fire of four dreadnoughts before they start to lose their kinetic barriers.

-Mass effect wiki

Second off you have yet to provide megatons worth of damage, third off range of their weapons? Yeah didnt think so, also 1k kilotons can easily be made by a FLEET OF THOUSANDS of ships compared to your 100 SHIPS. Pay attention.

Let me know when you SC fan boys can start providing evidence, either way they aint one shotting cause incase you forgot it took the whole alliance fleet to bring down one reaper in ME 1 and geth were walked all over ME 2, so those are reapers withstanding multiple kilotons worth of damage prolly megatons and now here you are suffering all that range, Please stop talking out of your butt and provide evidence or just bow down cause you lost.

@merulezall: Wow, okay. First off, Here's the bomb dropped on Hiroshima (the one you're referencing):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_bombings_of_Hiroshima_and_Nagasaki

16 Kilotons. Here's the MOST BASIC MODERN NUKE:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermonuclear_weapon

That's twice the damage output, assuming the Nukes are worse than modern equivalents (we'll get to that). Every Nuke in SC is a thermonuclear weapon. Even modern Nuclear weapons have a payload of Megatons. Saying your guns hit for kilotons being triple a nuke is flat out wrong, and implying that SC nukes are at the level of Little Boy is ignorant. Even more to the point, Terrans have burned entire planets with all out nuclear assaults, such as korhal, and are capable of firing, likely at most, 1000 missiles from only 20 behemoth class Battlecruisers causing global death and nuclear winter.

http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Destruction_of_Korhal_(Rebellion_of_Korhal)

For reference:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_winter

Nuclear winter requires 4000 megatons of force, meaning that the nukes hitting korhal were all AT LEAST 4 megatons. For more reference, you're guns are shooting 0.036 Megatons. A single battlecruiser also comes with Yamato canons, which hit with an equivocal impact force. So you may wish to check your math on who's hitting harder, or you better have bigger guns.

Battlecruiser standard issue also comes with ATA Laser batteries that fire every .225 seconds and the upgrade comes with ship to ship missile batteries.

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Battlecruiser

You're only counting the registered, active Battlecruisers, not the entire fleet in order to make your case seem more legitimate. No where does it give a full number of the dominion fleet in any of your sources.

They also attacked Char, the Zerg current "Homeworld"/base of operations with half their fleet and emerged victorious against a force that vastly outnumbered and fielded a leviathan (stated to be the size of the moon), which is a similar feature to now, only they now have additional allies, and despite your claims, they still won on Char. Literally, you've just proven my point that the terran forces have excellent strategic leadership.

That's just beyond silly right there. Your ships are garbage, can prolly be hacked anyway. We can fire our guns faster than yours, they can hit further than yours, and lastly they hit harder than yours. All while please do remember we've mass produced dreadnoughts very quickly, and the only reason why we have so low of them is cause we put a cap on them our personal cap, this isnt in character, so that will no longer apply. Plus Humanity is always advancing while your two forces take forever to do anything else but sit on the tech you already got.

Hurray! More No Limits Fallacies for ME, because why not. How exactly can you prove any of that? It's equivocal to me saying, "EMP removes the shields and mass effect fields cause it does that to the protoss!" This is the exact kind of reason I stopped talking to the last guy. You aren't providing information, you're just saying, "Oh Me wins because ME".

Battlecruisers can be produced in the field for starcraft units, and at fast rates since the terran forces can carry their fleet construction with them. They can also constantly repair the units during the battles at a vastly superior rate. If we're using all Lore, they can also be produced 2 at a time out of a single starport. Once again, that's 2, in the field, per production cycle.

You're also currently counting only half the forces here, how exactly are your dreadnoughts contending with leviathans? How are you contending with the swarm as a whole? How's the ground battle going for you? This is what I want, I want numbers that show how good ME is. Other than numbers, what do you have here? What's the main gun of the dreadnought class do?

@dratini1331: I know I asked for it by replying after seeing his username, but xXxmerulezallxXx is just a Troll. He doesn't believe what he's saying, so there's really no point arguing with him.

@emorytoss17: Yeah, I'm probably done with him. I'm just hoping that someone can give a decent response for ME. I may be hoping too much.

@dratini1331: Alright lets start with this long line of stuff first,

I know I asked for it by replying after seeing his username, but xXxmerulezallxXx is just a Troll. He doesn't believe what he's saying, so there's really no point arguing with him.

Yeah, I'm probably done with him. I'm just hoping that someone can give a decent response for ME. I may be hoping too much.

First u and your friend over there's nice comeback man am I impressed. I mean a troll really?

However you're both really

I mean come on this right here?

Yeah, I'm probably done with him. I'm just hoping that someone can give a decent response for ME. I may be hoping too much.

Is seriously thee biggest joke ever, you two clowns can't handle not providing proof for your side and only give me half donkey responses and expect more? Get over it, I asked for 1 thing, one simple thing that it's important in every debate... What was it? Evidence, what happened? Nothing not a single thing of that happened. On top of that I provided evidenced backed it up and even stated I was wrong about a certain thing, but never the less provided it from even your own site lol. Now let's get down to business and break your fallacy and illogical arguments down along with your clown friend @emorytoss17

Wow, okay. First off, Here's the bomb dropped on Hiroshima (the one you're referencing):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_bombings_of_Hiroshima_and_Nagasaki

16 Kilotons. Here's the MOST BASIC MODERN NUKE:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermonuclear_weapon

That's nice, very good very good.

That's twice the damage output, assuming the Nukes are worse than modern equivalents (we'll get to that). Every Nuke in SC is a thermonuclear weapon. Even modern Nuclear weapons have a payload of Megatons. Saying your guns hit for kilotons being triple a nuke is flat out wrong, and implying that SC nukes are at the level of Little Boy is ignorant. Even more to the point, Terrans have burned entire planets with all out nuclear assaults, such as korhal, and are capable of firing, likely at most, 1000 missiles from only 20 behemoth class Battlecruisers causing global death and nuclear winter.

Okay first off you see the fallacy you just lined yourself up with? Lets take this down a notch, you just said the thermonuclear bomb is twice as strong as the bombs dropped on those two cities. Which means... What again? Oh yes that ours is three times the strength of that with our guns this means that we are firing megatons. Now feel me here dude. Our dreadnoughts carry this many guns

The Kilimanjaro class is armed with 156 broadside mass accelerator cannons, 78 on each side.

-Mass Effect Wiki

Each round fires every two seconds, each round is up to 10,000km distance, this means that's what????? oh yeah 38kilotons x well 78 at the least and 156 at the most which equals to either = 2736 kilotons or well a big, 2.7 megatons worth of damage at the least whelp means we just hit megatons woot woot! At the highest amount of damage it's 5928 kilotons worth of damage or 5.9 kilotons worth of damage. This means every two seconds that amount of damage is happening. You know what though? It doesn't matter because when your Battlecruiser gets damaged seriously by a siege tank that's sad, however this doesn't even bring the worst of it as many of your battlecruisers whether it's raynors rebels or the Terran dominion fleet they get owned by these flying bugs. Are you telling me these things do megaton's of damage? Because I got serious doubts about that.

and your battle stations can barely hurt them you know you're in trouble against a real threat in space like mass effect. I'd also like proof of those megatons you were bringing up as well...

Any questions so far? If so make a note of them.

Nuclear winter requires 4000 megatons of force, meaning that the nukes hitting korhal were all AT LEAST 4 megatons. For more reference, you're guns are shooting 0.036 Megatons. A single battlecruiser also comes with Yamato canons, which hit with an equivocal impact force. So you may wish to check your math on who's hitting harder, or you better have bigger guns.

Already been debunked.

Battlecruiser standard issue also comes with ATA Laser batteries that fire every .225 seconds and the upgrade comes with ship to ship missile batteries.

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Battlecruiser

That's nice, missles or not they didn't do jack to basic zerg forces with that said, you also fell into a zerg trap as well. We will get to this later btw down in the post.

You're only counting the registered, active Battlecruisers, not the entire fleet in order to make your case seem more legitimate. No where does it give a full number of the dominion fleet in any of your sources.

Only, no don't be a brick. Even still those are the active battlecruisers when u got a zerg attacking you, what happen to all the other battlecruisers? They just sitting there doing jack? No he made it clear he said they were literally using half of his fleet which was a total of 50 ships, your Dominion is 100 strong. Heck as I said ill give u 200 we got THOUSANDS. That's not counting the reapers which do a lot of damage, and are about as large as the mass effect fleet even more due to them wiping a galaxy with ease. No one in your universe has even came close to that at all, you know why? Because Starcraft doesnt even work on a galactic scale.

They also attacked Char, the Zerg current "Homeworld"/base of operations with half their fleet and emerged victorious against a force that vastly outnumbered and fielded a leviathan (stated to be the size of the moon), which is a similar feature to now, only they now have additional allies, and despite your claims, they still won on Char. Literally, you've just proven my point that the terran forces have excellent strategic leadership.

LOL the about of wrong in this is hilarious. Are you blind, they dig in and held the line waiting for a protoss machine to kill all the zerg. On top of that, that was raynor who saved the Terran Dominion General dumbdonkey was on the verge of losing, and guess what, Raynor aint here. Don't even try to pull that on me. You may fool other ME fans, but I've played all games of the star craft universe, to which this is literally a false statement.

Hurray! More No Limits Fallacies for ME, because why not. How exactly can you prove any of that? It's equivocal to me saying, "EMP removes the shields and mass effect fields cause it does that to the protoss!" This is the exact kind of reason I stopped talking to the last guy. You aren't providing information, you're just saying, "Oh Me wins because ME".

No limits fallacy? Oh please your the master of that so far. No the difference is the shield types. You're telling me starwars shields = star trek shields? Or Protoss shields = Imperuim of man shields. Look here brick we got shields which means we can take a beating longer than you can without them. That's it, there's no buts about it. Even if u remove it we still got the range. We have rounds firing at oh wait what's that?

An 800-meter mass accelerator is capable of accelerating one twenty-kilogram slug to a velocity of 4025 km/s (1.3% the speed of light) every two seconds.

-Mass Effect Wiki

1.3% the speed of light. Deal with it. On top of that I aint just saying that I'm literally the only one so far providing proof, at least when killerwasp argued for halo in which I thought Mass effect would stomp he provided actual evidence for the debate not your wishy washy whiny attitude you've been giving so far, so either man up and provide some solid feats and proof or literally dont waste my time with your bs. Seriously I aint wasting your time your both wasting my time.

Battlecruisers can be produced in the field for starcraft units, and at fast rates since the terran forces can carry their fleet construction with them. They can also constantly repair the units during the battles at a vastly superior rate. If we're using all Lore, they can also be produced 2 at a time out of a single starport. Once again, that's 2, in the field, per production cycle.

That's cool they go down to also marine gun fire very quickly, and AA missiles as well, that don't even come close to yielding megatons let alone low end kilotons. But meh whatever, use game play because you got nothing but your straw man arguments.

You're also currently counting only half the forces here, how exactly are your dreadnoughts contending with leviathans? How are you contending with the swarm as a whole? How's the ground battle going for you? This is what I want, I want numbers that show how good ME is. Other than numbers, what do you have here? What's the main gun of the dreadnought class do?

First off there's only 1 Leviathan so far, unless you got proof which I'd love to see. Second off did i mention reapers? Oh yeah, that's right I havent.... You're only arguing with the weaker of two fleets Lol.

Now then things we need to get straight

We got range attacks, Mass effect has the range over starcraft everyday of the week. You cant shoot very far, and your durability is literally in question at all times due to how weak at least for terran your ships are.

First thing's first

Damage, our weapons this needs to be solved first before we can keep this debate up at all.

Disruptor Torpedoes

Disruptor torpedoes are powered projectiles with warheads that create random and unstable mass effect fields when triggered. These fields warp space-time in a localized area. The rapid asymmetrical mass changes cause the target to rip itself apart.

-Mass Effect Wiki

GARDIAN systems.

A ships' General ARea Defense Integration Anti-spacecraft Network (GARDIAN) consists of anti-missile/anti-fighter laser turrets on the exterior hull. Because these are under computer control, the gunnery control officer needs to do little beyond turn the system on and designate targets as hostile.

Since lasers move at light speed, they cannot be dodged by anything moving at non-relativistic speeds. Unless the beam is aimed poorly, it will always hit its target. In the early stages of a battle, the GARDIAN fire is 100% accurate. It is not 100% lethal, but it doesn't have to be. Damaged fighters must break off for repairs.

Lasers are limited by diffraction . The beams "spread out", decreasing the energy density (watts per m2) the weapon can place on a target. Any high-powered laser is a short-ranged weapon.

GARDIAN networks have another limitation: heat. Weapons-grade lasers require "cool-down" time, during which heat is transferred to sinks or radiators. As lasers fire, heat builds within them, reducing damage, range, and accuracy.

Fighters attack in swarms. The first few WILL be hit by GARDIAN, but as the battle continues, the effects of laser overheat allow the attacks to press ever closer to the ship. Constant use will burn out the laser.

GARDIAN lasers typically operate in infrared frequencies. Shorter frequencies would offer superior stopping power and range, but degradation of focal arrays and mirrors would make them expensive to maintain, and most prefer mechanical reliability over leading-edge performance where lives are concerned. Salarians , however, use near-ultraviolet frequency lasers with six times the range, believing that having additional time to shoot down incoming missiles is more important.

Lasers are not blocked by the kinetic barriers of capital ships. However, the range of lasers limits their use to rare "knife fight"-range ship-to-ship combat.

-Mass Effect wiki

Mass accelerators

Mass accelerators propel solid metal slugs via electromagnetic attraction and repulsion. A slug lightened by a mass effect field can be accelerated to extremely high speeds, permitting previously unattainable projectile velocities.

The primary determinant of a mass accelerator's destructive power is length. The longer the barrel, the longer the slug can be accelerated, the higher the slug's final velocity, and therefore the greater its kinetic impact. Slugs are designed to squash or shatter on impact, increasing the energy they transfer to its target. Without collapsibility, slugs would punch through their targets while inflicting only minimal damage.

Rather than being mounted on the exterior, starship guns are housed inside hulls and visible only as gun portholes from outside.

A ship's main gun is a large spinal-mount weapon running 90% of the hull's length. While possessing destructive power equal to that of tactical nuclear weapons, main guns are difficult to aim. Because ships must be able to point their bows almost directly at their targets, main guns are best used for long-range "bombardment" fire.

Approximately 40% of the hull's width, broadside guns inflict less damage and can be mounted with greater numbers and more flexibility. The modern human Kilimanjaro-class dreadnoughts mount three decks with 26 broadside accelerators apiece for a total salvo weight of 78 slugs per side, firing once every two seconds.

However, mass accelerators produce recoil equal to their impact energy. While the mass effect fields suspending the rounds mitigate the recoil, recoil shock can still rattle crews and damage systems.

-Mass Effect wiki

Javelin

The Javelin is an experimental close-assault weapon fitted on a handful of newer Alliance warships. It consists of a "rack" of two or more disposable disruptor torpedo tubes bolted or magnetically "slung" on to a ship’s exterior armored hull. The torpedoes are fired on converging trajectories, and detonate in a precisely timed sequence that allows the dark energy emitted by their warheads to resonate. This magnifies the resulting space-time warp effects.

Javelin mounts are most often fitted on swift frigates, which expect to enter "knife fight" torpedo ranges as a matter of course. Javelins may also be fitted on heavier ships during short range engagements, such as trans-relay assaults. They are particularly useful in this role for dreadnoughts, which are unable to lay their main guns on targets at close range.

-Mass Effect wiki

In other words two of our main weapons cause space-time effects when hitting a target ripping into ur ships and ur well flesh that has no defense against this, and thus doing some serious damage to your team. Until you can provide any evidence your side stands zero chance against these rounds being fired. We will start with fire power first, as it seems to be the hot topic right now.

@merulezall: I wrote an entire response, but I immediately realized that it was irrelevant since you're either trolling, or you didn't read anything. Either way, You aren't doing anything but ad hominem and lowballing with the occasional NLF.

I thought Mass effect would stomp he provided actual evidence for the debate not your wishy washy whiny attitude

Don't worry, denial is the first stage of grief, you'll get over it. Though judging from your repeated insults and failure to materialize anything, you may have already moved onto anger.

@merulezall:

@ghostravage said:

Yeah... Starcraft stomps. WAY more lore to drag feats from.

Lore doesn't matter, Star wars has more lore than warhammer doesn't mean star wars stomps.

Thats not entirely true. SW have less than a 100 Novels of books, while Black Library on 40K alone has over few hundred novels. SW has couple hundred comics, but Warhammer has almost hundred Codexes/BRB with over 100-1000 pages of lore. Then you have the Video games, Movies, and few Comics it has as well.

In short its debatable if SW has more "LORE" than 40K IMO, but I get what you mean here.

Once more you waste my time with your bs. All you've done so far is write this rather than counter the actual argument. Heck there werent even insults at the end, let alone insults throughout it, only the beginning. Baiting people into anger is what you two chumps do. Now leave because you obviously offer zero debate, and poor arguments for the SC side. Ik it's hard to accept that your sci fi is just outclassed, and you have a hard time understanding how firepower works, but seriously you should go back to off topic or somewhere else and let the real fans debate. So far all you've done is complain and thats all I expect now and in the future when you get owned by evidence. I haven't lowballed jack, considering that's literally all of starcraft 2's battleships and weapons alike. Until further evidence has been proven and given out its fact. Something you and your friend seem to leave out in your responses.....

What a shame SC nerds filled with baiters and hypocrites who demand a good argument wow that fallacy right there.....

@sirfizzwhizz

I could of sworn starwars had more lore, but eh like I said just cause they got more lore doesn't mean it's an instant win. Some sci fis are just out classed, and so far SC is out classed.

SC wins

ME space armaments is not really on par w/ the SC

SC have been accustomed w/ large scale wars unlike the reaper harvests or SA resistance

SA lacks of space assets -_-

team 2

How so? I just proved ME is in the same league with starcraft. I have yet to see megatons as feats for the starcraft universe. On top of that I have yet to see it's durability and how it will effect the Mass Effect navy.

SC1 was literally over 5 planets. Sc2 took place over on like a total of a couple of solar systems a sector of space at maxed. ME is a galaxy based, it's a huge difference.

SA has more ships than the TD by far. TD only has 100 ships and so far two other people have yet to disprove that. Can you?

@teerack:The Zerg are clusters of hiveminds struggling against one another...

Zerg are hiveminds literally on the cellular level. As in dormant zerg cells kill each otherfor the right to reproduce within the same organism. They simply aren't traditional hiveminds like the Rachni or the Thorian telepathic thingamajig that probably isn't really a hivemind... I think? Regardless, you're comparing cherries and durian.

@merulezall: The vast majority of the Reaper War takes place on less than a dozen planets... The rest was just the SA getting crushed and abandoning lost causes.

Though honestly, all of this talk of galactic warfare is kind of ridiculous... The entire battle hinges on whether or not the Terran/Zerg find their nearest Mass Relay(s) quickly enough or not... If they find it and infest/research/destroy it quickly, then the entire MEverse is screwed because they take a bazillion years getting there... Zerg with preptime+Terran with perfect team work will win. If they don't they just get crushed because there are like 50k Reaper ships that will just overwhelm them...

Actually... I think the Zerg can solo in "galactic warfare" the moment they realize they can't win. They can just wyrmhole their side away with Leviathans and have infinite prep until they feel like crushing the MEverse.

@boringperson:

The vast majority of the Reaper War takes place on less than a dozen planets... The rest was just the SA getting crushed and abandoning lost causes.

Actually we don't know what happened to the other planets. Also a around a dozen is more than Starcraft 2's wars with all three games well two games at least. that only took place in another planet or so. Raynor dodged the dominion for a long time, and the zerg wrecked them without even a real navy just flying bugs. The biggest battle was over char and they needed a protoss artifact to wipe the zerg. If protoss were here I'd give it to the SC team if it was a protoss and zerg vs SA and Reapers, but it's not. The TD lacks ships and fire power to actually make a threat to the mass effect fleets, especially the reapers.

Though honestly, all of this talk of galactic warfare is kind of ridiculous... The entire battle hinges on whether or not the Terran/Zerg find their nearest Mass Relay(s) quickly enough or not... If they find it and infest/research/destroy it quickly, then the entire MEverse is screwed because they take a bazillion years getting there... Zerg with preptime+Terran with perfect team work will win. If they don't they just get crushed because there are like 50k Reaper ships that will just overwhelm them...

My point was, we operated on a galactic scale. This war is a galactic scale, they have no prior knowledge of the mass relays, we do. We also know if they are gonna be taken over or not as well as shown with certain relays having problems IIRC. On top of that the TD fleet travel time is very slow, zerg have decent ones, but its nothing compared to the mass effect travel time that we've got. On top of that they don't got no prior knowledge of where they are also at as well, but they are sprinkled on your side of the map as well.

Actually... I think the Zerg can solo in "galactic warfare" the moment they realize they can't win. They can just wyrmhole their side away with Leviathans and have infinite prep until they feel like crushing the MEverse.

What does mass effect do? They will keep building as the zerg wormhole away, and thats if the zerg choose to, they've never displayed this before so Idk why they'd start now. However it is not in character so I guess that could happen. Zerg might solo but TD would get crushed.

How so? I just proved ME is in the same league with starcraft. I have yet to see megatons as feats for the starcraft universe. On top of that I have yet to see it's durability and how it will effect the Mass Effect navy.

SA also only have have a handful of fleets(mainly 5 fleets) while It is true that SA Dreadnoughts might be comparable to a SC Dreadnought(Minotaur); however, this ships are mainly used as a capital ships while Terrans manufacture them like some crazy russians.

Yamato Cannon is more than enough to bring down any ships that the SA counter and I'm pretty sure TD's nukes was on terratons(let me look at this/I think I saw this on the novels/comics let me look for it)

Notes: Minotaur Class Dreadnoughts have enough firepower to counter a SA Dreadnought which is the SA strongest ship(being a capital ship also lacks in numbers) Hell even ODIN can bring down SA ships when up close

SC1 was literally over 5 planets. Sc2 took place over on like a total of a couple of solar systems a sector of space at maxed. ME is a galaxy based, it's a huge difference.

I guess you never really knew about the novels huh. It's true that the game have the settings in a certain sector.

SC is also Galactic(mostly zergs and UED partly)

Its like saying Command and Conquering settings only takes place on earth, so are they weaker than any other galactic race?

Or Covenant is weaker than SA since Halo only takes place on Orion's Arm(Half of it)

Man even Covies can take those reapers

Also SA was never have a galactic force maybe the reapers but aint the SA

SA has more ships than the TD by far. TD only has 100 ships and so far two other people have yet to disprove that. Can you?

Sadly I cannot prove this. Also can you prove TD only have 100 of ships? 100 is an accurate number man. Since minotaur class are mass-produced I think Its more than that

Notes:

ME universe ground forces is not on par w/ SW

Also ME strategy is not really that great

This is also have a random encounter which is a SC advantage(SA is not really that great at prep)

This is only SA and TD not Reapers and Zergs

This is difficult. The reapers have no confirmed number to there capital ships let alone there foot soldiers like the collectors and cyberized enslaved species. That is a massive force for both terrens and Zerg to take on. And the reapers have the systems alliance to back them up so as much as I love Starcraft I just can't get over the power of the reapers and there limitless numbers.

Alliance and reapers win in a tough fight

@merulezall: Uhhh...

The Zerg fleet has always traveled by wormhole transit... It's the main flashpoint of SC1.

The Dominion has inter-sector warping, but can still just through Zerg made wormholes...

Wormhole travel is functionally instant.

The SA and Reapers with 100 years prep vs the Zerg+Terran Dominion with 100 years prep...

I know who I'd back.

@boringperson:

The Zerg fleet has always traveled by wormhole transit... It's the main flashpoint of SC1.

Okay.

The Dominion has inter-sector warping, but can still just through Zerg made wormholes...

Okay.

Wormhole travel is functionally instant.

Proof.

The SA and Reapers with 100 years prep vs the Zerg+Terran Dominion with 100 years prep...

I know who I'd back.

Where is prep coming from again? who says its 100 years of prep? Also I'd back Mass effect as well, Zerg just zerg rushed the Terran Dominion who were also preparing for them as well, soooo, how is that a threat again?

@detrolord:

SA also only have have a handful of fleets(mainly 5 fleets) while It is true that SA Dreadnoughts might be comparable to a SC Dreadnought(Minotaur); however, this ships are mainly used as a capital ships while Terrans manufacture them like some crazy russians.

One of those fleets was already stated to be in the thousands, not hundreds, but thousands. On top of that that was just Humans not even the SA fleets. This counts for the other dreadnoughts given, we literally got more dreadnoughts than your fleet of the Terran. That's a problem we are spitting out megatons worth of damage as already shown to another SC user. Terran producing how many ships again, we've hardly seen jack. If you are counting those weak battleships in the games then yes I guess the Terran Dominion can produce as well, as missle pods and Marines can kill those things.

Yamato Cannon is more than enough to bring down any ships that the SA counter and I'm pretty sure TD's nukes was on terratons(let me look at this/I think I saw this on the novels/comics let me look for it)

Proof of the YC bringing anything down? We got shields that can withstand kinetic forces. We are firing things that warp time space itself, Example down below

Javelin

The Javelin is an experimental close-assault weapon fitted on a handful of newer Alliance warships. It consists of a "rack" of two or more disposable disruptor torpedo tubes bolted or magnetically "slung" on to a ship’s exterior armored hull. The torpedoes are fired on converging trajectories, and detonate in a precisely timed sequence that allows the dark energy emitted by their warheads to resonate. This magnifies the resulting space-time warp effects.

Javelin mounts are most often fitted on swift frigates, which expect to enter "knife fight" torpedo ranges as a matter of course. Javelins may also be fitted on heavier ships during short range engagements, such as trans-relay assaults. They are particularly useful in this role for dreadnoughts, which are unable to lay their main guns on targets at close range.

-Mass Effect wiki

Disruptor Torpedoes

Disruptor torpedoes are powered projectiles with warheads that create random and unstable mass effect fields when triggered. These fields warp space-time in a localized area. The rapid asymmetrical mass changes cause the target to rip itself apart.

-Mass Effect Wiki

These do work, against shielded targets, imagine someone who isn't shielded... These being fired tons of times over thousands of ships. Now your YC cannon,

That doesn't look megatons to me, barely looks like it does any damage honestly. However maybe you can prove me wrong?

I'd like to add that they are also firing weak rounds, you're telling me those rounds they are firing are teratons? You can't be serious, those rounds would barely hit even megaton tons worth. They're in kiloton range. The YC could be megatons could, but I doubt thats even in the mid level megatons.

As I said you only got armor the rounds from our ships will eat through that man, However as I said we got shields and defense to match the TD as well,

Armor

Silaris Armor

Asari-made Silaris armor can resist even the tremendous heat and kinetic energy of starship weapons. The armor is nearly unsurpassed in strength because its central material, carbon nanotube sheets woven with diamond Chemical Vapor Deposition, are crushed by mass effect fields into super-dense layers able to withstand extreme temperatures. That process also compensates for diamond's brittleness.

-Mass Effect Wiki

Shields

Cyclonic Barrier Technology

Cyclonic Barrier Technology (CBT) attempts to solve the higher-end limitations of traditional kinetic barriers. Traditional barriers cannot block high-level kinetic energy attacks such as disruptor torpedoes because torpedo mass effect fields add mass. The CBT violently slaps aside rather than halting incoming linear force. By rotationally firing their mass effect field projectors, ships create rapidly oscillating kinetic barriers instead of static ones. Shooting through the CBT is like trying to shoot at a target inside a spinning ball.

-Mass Effect Wiki

Common tactics,

Ship mobility dominates space combat; the primary objective is to align the along mass accelerator the bow with the opposing vessel's broadside. Battles typically play out as artillery duels fought at ranges measured in thousands of kilometers, though assault through defended mass relays often occur at "knife fight" ranges as close as a few dozen kilometers.

Most ship-to-ship engagements are skirmishes between patrol vessels of cruiser weight and below, with dreadnoughts and carriers only deployed in full-scale fleet actions. Battles in open space are short and often inconclusive, as the weaker opponent generally disengages.

-Mass Effect wiki

This is what happens, we have fast moving ships, in all the trailers the Terran never display this they just drift towards the enemy rather than moving around using the open space to fight.

Notes: Minotaur Class Dreadnoughts have enough firepower to counter a SA Dreadnought which is the SA strongest ship(being a capital ship also lacks in numbers) Hell even ODIN can bring down SA ships when up close

Odin can even come close, even if it could your Battlecruisers have been downed by flying little fighters and tanks alike. On top of that how many minotaurs are there? I doubt their's hardly as many as there are dreadnoughts for the SA, which we got a couple hundred. Do we got numbers for these Minotaur Class battle cruisers?

I guess you never really knew about the novels huh. It's true that the game have the settings in a certain sector.

SC is also Galactic(mostly zergs and UED partly)

Its like saying Command and Conquering settings only takes place on earth, so are they weaker than any other galactic race?

Or Covenant is weaker than SA since Halo only takes place on Orion's Arm(Half of it)

Man even Covies can take those reapers

Also SA was never have a galactic force maybe the reapers but aint the SA

All lore is allowed, but as always high cannon would be your games, just like with any series, but no please do enlighten me on how strong the novel ships are.

I dont recall Sc ever taking on a galactic scale war, As far as I know it was a sector of space, zerg only had a couple of planets in control, so either that's a really small galaxy or it's just a sector of space.

By technical means, yes C&C is weaker than other galactic level threats like reapers. Reason is they have space travel and can bombard the whole earth without ever landing a trooper, that was kind of a bad example. A more appropriate example would of been something like Helghast fighting against a space faring race saying, that the Helghast are weak and useless even though they are not. Point is we operate on a larger and more grand scale, every planet you lose, ever battle you lose, every victory we the more we learn about you and your weaknesses. We are going to be winning a lot because numbers of space craft are on our side.

Actually someone already posted the new Halo map, the fights take place in the Orion arm, but the Covenant are much larger than what you think now. I'd look that up again. Also yes i thought the covenant were weaker until feats were given and shown that they were indeed stronger. That's all i request is feats that display superior fire power, if you post a feat with less fire power you can't expect me to say oh well you guys can win cause u can destroy small rocks, no I would like to see feats, and posts of fire power and it being superior to mass effect's so much that numbers wont matter. I'm getting tired of seeing the gigaton argument when we've seen nothing like that in starcraft at all.

Covies can, what's the point? Covies also out do the Terran and the Zerg in straight up combat, that's not necessary a valid point. SA operates on a galactic scale, did you not see the map???

Look at how big that green zone is touching. It's touching quite a bit of space, a lot bigger than a sector that's for sure.

Sadly I cannot prove this. Also can you prove TD only have 100 of ships? 100 is an accurate number man. Since minotaur class are mass-produced I think Its more than that

I already have, and ill prove it again.

He's taken half the fleet, according to your starcraft wiki, half the fleet was 50 battlecruisers, which in total means thats 100 or around that area ships only that the Terran Dominion have. Unless this can be proven false in WoL.

Link down below is where I got the numbers,

http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Battle_of_Char_(Dangerous_Game)

You mean the garbage ships that get owned by marines and small jets? I wouldn't call that mass production of those ships good if they can take damage from such small aircraft/spacecraft.

ME universe ground forces is not on par w/ SW

Also ME strategy is not really that great

This is also have a random encounter which is a SC advantage(SA is not really that great at prep)

This is only SA and TD not Reapers and Zergs

Ground doesn't matter if we are winning space. Second off we also are just as good on ground as you guys are. We got reapers, mini nukes, black holes, etc.

It's better than the Terran Dominion whom can't handle a simple fight and didn't expect the zerg to attack them while they are hovering over their planet, they also almost lost the battle to the zerg if it wasn't for raynor. Jim Raynor also dodged the Terran Dominion and caused havoc on them for quite some time.

It's a random encounter, this means no prep is there Lol.

Yes, because reapers can already match the zerg in numbers and damage. I've yet to see the zerg pose a little more of a threat only due to their travel through worm holes.

@merulezall:

Wormhole transit is shown as displaying two planets in real time with forces flying from far orbit of one directly into the far orbit of another.

The 100 years of prep was just me saying that the Reapers and SA can't pursue because they lack MFTL tech...

Their only way to MFTL travel is via Mass Relay... The Zerg/Dominion escape ONCE into a wormhole and the MEverse has no way of following. MFTL travel is so high tech in the MEverse that even the Reapers lack the tech to do so (thus the entire plot of ME1). So, literally speaking, the Zerg/Terran have tens of thousands of years of available prep because the MEverse is basically incapable of creating MFTL travel even with tens of thousands of years of technical development.

You're displaying behemoth class Battlecruisers firing at each other... they're designed to take each other's hits. Battlecruiser energy weapons are too fast to be meaningfully dodged so they generally don't even attempt to... battles are won by initial positioning and reading enemy warp jumps. BC's also use shortrange jumps to "dodge" and reposition periodically if they think they're at a disadvantage. SC terran are focused on overwhelming firepower and positioning.

You see Dominion ships as being slow, I see MEverse weapons as being slow.

Citing masses of bleeding edge tech doesn't bolster your argument, really. Warp tech also doesn't really bolster your argument either... just because it bends space-time doesn't mean it's particularly impressive. 100 Trained Asari footsoldiers vs 100 trained Krogan footsoldiers (no biotics allowed for Krogan). Guess who ME lore says wins?

@boringperson:

Wormhole transit is shown as displaying two planets in real time with forces flying from far orbit of one directly into the far orbit of another.

The 100 years of prep was just me saying that the Reapers and SA can't pursue because they lack MFTL tech...

ME can't purse because we may not be as fast yet, but you must pay attention that within the first 100 years of the human life learning about space we've improved quite a bit, while terran on the other hand havent. In space you guys lack the fire power to simply out do us, only the zerg can swarm up enough to do so, and last I checked they haven't done this or have barely done it.

Their only way to MFTL travel is via Mass Relay... The Zerg/Dominion escape ONCE into a wormhole and the MEverse has no way of following. MFTL travel is so high tech in the MEverse that even the Reapers lack the tech to do so (thus the entire plot of ME1). So, literally speaking, the Zerg/Terran have tens of thousands of years of available prep because the MEverse is basically incapable of creating MFTL travel even with tens of thousands of years of technical development.

We've shown improvement over time and once more, Terran fleets may run sure, but I've yet to see the zerg learn the word retreat... furthermore did you forget humanity not only built better ships but faster and more improved technology in general? Point is this is half a galaxy vs half a galaxy, in prep time zerg have shown nothing but bum rushing their foes over and over again even with prep. Lets look at Starcraft 2 for example. We got a lot of planets falling, but caused them to fall? Lack of Terran ships, lack of unity amongst the terran, and above all they were out numbered like 10 to 1.

Examples of planets being overrun rather than the use of actual sneaky tactics displayed down below for the zerg,

Just thoughts at least.

You're displaying behemoth class Battlecruisers firing at each other... they're designed to take each other's hits. Battlecruiser energy weapons are too fast to be meaningfully dodged so they generally don't even attempt to... battles are won by initial positioning and reading enemy warp jumps. BC's also use shortrange jumps to "dodge" and reposition periodically if they think they're at a disadvantage. SC terran are focused on overwhelming firepower and positioning.

Fair enough, my point was Im not seeing the megatons that everyone claims, if this was the case hell the Covenant are in the triple digit gigatons. On top of that Mutalisk don't shoot stuff that fast either, and still they tag those slow moving ships.

You see Dominion ships as being slow, I see MEverse weapons as being slow.

Point is, your Dominion ships don't even move that fast, and our rounds/weapons travel quite fast have you not seen the video with our battle against the reapers? If you're going to make a claim though please do provide evidence of Dominion ships firing their regular weapons that are faster than ME's weapons which travel at

An 800-meter mass accelerator is capable of accelerating one twenty-kilogram slug to a velocity of 4025 km/s (1.3% the speed of light) every two seconds.

-Mass Effect Wiki

I'm not bashing you, im wanting proof for once from the Starcraft side, cause so far two doofuses haven't provided any proof at all and just use false logic to make their points. I want real proof and so on, I dont ignore facts Mr. Boringperson as you can see in plenty of threads, ive been proven wrong my point is I want solid evidence.

Citing masses of bleeding edge tech doesn't bolster your argument, really. Warp tech also doesn't really bolster your argument either... just because it bends space-time doesn't mean it's particularly impressive. 100 Trained Asari footsoldiers vs 100 trained Krogan footsoldiers (no biotics allowed for Krogan). Guess who ME lore says wins?

That maybe so, but last I checked no matter how advanced Starcraft seems to be, they always have a weakness. Example protoss losing to terran forces, that's pretty sad for a so called very technologically advanced race like them, Anyway I beg to differ against the lore as we can see down here Asari foot soldiers are no joke, Granted this is a special case of a certain one, this doesn't mean they can't all provide this ability.

But lets not forget, your men can't even handle flash nades Lol,

Anyway my point is Mass Effect wins, the zerg and terran have not or hardly ever displayed actual use of prep, and although mass effect doesn't necessary have a load of cases of prep either, they aren't losing to someone who can only travel so far, we've got the hit and run tactics, the zerg just get grinned down into dust and soon they wont be able to infect anything as the reapers wipe all planets of theres forcing them to fight on our side, thus allowing us home field advantage and to prep fleets of thousands to bombard and destroy your zerg, all while the terran just get mopped up and forgotten.

Ugh, this again. ME weapons aren't as great as people like to believe. Terran C-14 rifles are better than the ME equivalents.

"But.. Wut... railguns!"

Yes. They are railguns. Yes, that sounds fancy and neat. But sadly, they have the same punch as a modern day assault rifle.

"But Railguns! And FROM THE FUTURE!"

Indeed, and if they fired bullets that had the same mass as the ones we used today, they would, indeed, pack a punch. But they don't. They fire bullets the size of a grain of sand. Making it go fast =/= uber ultimate.

Mass x Velocity. Increasing the velocity is awesome. Lowering the mass while increasing the velocity, on the other hand, ends you up pretty close to where you started out as ME infantry weaponry do not go near lightspeed to get that nice little impact their ships get.

"But... they knock chunks out of Concrete! Concrete!"

Yes, they do. Just like modern day assault rifles!

On a more related note, Starcraft team wins this.

Maybe it's crazy, but I will say Team 1.

Star craft technology is good and all, but Mass Effect have a better FTL tech.

Terran dominion is an off-shoot of Earth, but they still have to come back to earth, or explore the rest of the galaxy. Basically, they are stuck in a corner of the galaxy, while Reaper and Alliance can have a better strategic depth. They can retreat, and come back better.

Plus, the reaper are quite badass anyway.

@xaos: No, they don't. Their ftl is entirely based on the Mass Effect Relays (They do have a much, much slower version of the FTL they use, but the Relay is how they get around the galaxy). The Reapers also use this as they had to fly in from deep space (which, if you recall, took them quite sometime) when their plan was foiled in ME 1. If you destroy the Mass Effect Relay not only can they not retreat, but the SA cannot return there until the Relays are rebuilt.

Any relay destroyed leaves the SA worlds stranded and alone.

As much as I love Starcraft, they made it apparent in ME that the Reapers couldn't be beaten by conventional methods(regardless if we saw them get killed every now and then.)

@gambit474: Can't be beaten by conventional means that the Citadel races had available. This does not mean they can't be beaten by any other sci-fi faction in existence. The reason that supported this was because they do not have supply lines that can be disrupted or raided which many nations, and factions, do when they can't win a major engagement.

The Dominion have far greater firepower than the Reapers or the SA. What makes this harder is the fact that the Reapers don't have supply lines and thus can attack anywhere, and if it were just the Dominion vs the Reapers, it would be an interesting fight, but the Zerg push it in the Dominions favor while the SA give the Reapers nothing and are a hindrance due to the SA's require for supply lines, over reliance on mass relays (as, unlike the Reapers, they can't move far without them), and the SA's ships are not doing much in this fight besides getting blown up.

Actually it does mean such if you don't have any proof to show them being beaten otherwise. The only way they'd beat the Reapers is if they knew what the Catalyst was, which they wouldn't because only Shepard encountered it. Having greater firepower means nothing if you don't know how to stop the source

@gambit474: No, it doesn't. Someone can claim that I can only die if someone pays me three trillion dollars, but that doesn't make it true, does it? It is about as true as saying that because no one has ever killed me, I can't be killed. Common sense. Use it.

An Alliance Commander said they could not beat them through conventional means. The Reapers make more reapers by, you know, crazy here, but by reaping their opponents and turning them into new Reapers, thus, by default, in order to make more Reapers, they have to beat sentient races. Only ones here are the zerg, the dominion, and their allies the SA.

Which means they cannot make new reapers if their invading forces get defeated. So, yes, blowing them up would prove incredibly effective.

@wut: OMFG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

YOUR BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

@jwwprod: Hey Jww. :D Good to see you as well.