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Time: Midday Population: Unpopulated Buidlings consist of standard interiors (narrow hallways, open apartments on upper levels, limited furntire, basic shops on the first floors)
Rooftops are flat Team DC begins at blue X on far left (in distance) Team Marvel begins at right X on far right (in distance) Everything is on limits. The middle street does not lead anywhere. Assume it is a dead end.
Rules
-Both teams have basic knowledge of who they are facing. This includes names and basic power set (physical attributes, standard gear, if possible, mutant abilities). They know nothing of the other team's personalities, tactics, and so forth. -Both teams are aware of the starting locations. -Character morals apply. -Elimination by all standard methods (BFR, KO, incapacitation, death)
-No weapon swapping or simply using another character's weapons/gear. -Characters will not cause physical harm to teammates on purpose. -Characters have unlimited ammo unless otherwise specified. -Keep in mind, you're debating why you believe your team would win in combat based on how they would act. Not how you would command and plan the attack.
READY FOR THE FIRST MATCH IN THE WAR BETWEEN MARVEL AND DC?!
I think this is going to be one tough battle for both these teams. I feel with the skill set of my team, and the flight advantage of Man-Bat can put me over the top for a victory.
Deathstroke is formulating their stratagy as we speek, Good luck Power NeXus, see you in the streets.
ps hope it all right I went ahead and opened this up *_*
Personally, I think my team will win. But, of course, that's totally natural, so this thread isn't going anywhere until I explain why my team will win. One of my primary advantages is Gambit. He is the only person in this match who can attack from long range. All of your players are restricted to melee combat. Here are a couple examples of Gambit's incredible accuracy with his cards:
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I hope the scans post all right. I've sometimes had problems with posting several scans at the same time. Nevertheless, the feats I showed include throwing 3 cards at once to tag 3 zombies in the head, disarming a person without looking, and cutting the wire on a rolling bomb before it could explode. Needless to say, I think Gambit poses an extremely high threat to your team. None of your guys can attack from a distance, none of them have significant armor/durability/healing to protect them from explosions, and none of them have truly impressive speed/agility for dodging projectiles.
You mentioned that one of your major advantages is flight from Man-Bat. Personally, I don't see how he is anything that Nightcrawler couldn't handle with ease.
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The first two scans (assuming these all come out in order) show Nightcrawler being capable of avoiding Danger Room missles without even having to teleport. The next scan shows him decking Frog-Man (whose suit gives him superhuman strength) with one hit. The next scan is something Man-Bat will particularly have to look out for: taking out a flying adversary (also with superhuman strength) without even having to teleport. The final two scans also show how effective he is when fighting a flyer (Rogue) who is too strong for him to injure directly.
My final character is Wolverine, who is an advantage in and of himself. Basically, I don't see how your team is going to hurt him. Man-Bat might be able to temporarily injure him by flying him up and dropping him, but he would get stabbed by Wolverine's claws before he could get enough altitude. Bane has absolutely nothing he can do to Wolverine. Deathstroke's sword is really the only chance your team has at harming Wolverine. And even that is probably not going to happen. Gambit still has the potentail to take out Deathstroke from long-distance, and Wolverine is still capable to engaging Deathstroke up close (since the sword is made out of standard materials, Wolverien's claws might be able to cut it).
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I have provided a few relevant Wolverine scans here. The first one shows Wolverine being stabbed straight through the torso, and remaining relatively unphased. The next one shows Wolverine (who seems to be having a bad face day...) using his bone claws to cut straight through a solid steel door. The next two seem to be out of order, but they show Wolverine being stabbed in the throat by Gorgon's sword, and still being able to talk immediately after pulling it out. The next one shows Wolverine's bone claws to injure a Prime Sentinel (they can stand up to blows from Colossus). And the final scan shows Wolverine's bone claws cutting right through a helicopter's windshield.
With all that being said, here is the basic strategy I think the X-Men would employ in this fight: Nightcrawler would take to the rooftops and engage Man-Bat as soon as he sees him. Gambit would position himself in the middle of the street and lay down suppresive fire over Bane and Deathstroke (and maybe Man-Bat too, if he gets an open shot). Once Bane (the easiest target) is down, Wolverine and Gambit will rush Deathstroke together. Gambit will keep him off balance with a series of explosions while Wolverine attemps to eviscerate him. If Nightcrawler has finished with Man-Bat by this time, he will be able to join them and use his teleportation as a distraction factor.
@Power NeXus: good plan using nightcrawler to counter man bat and gambit giving suppresive fire,i would suggest that instead of gambit and wolverine rushing keep gambit at a distance laying down suppresive fire and have wolverine go though the buildings and come up behind them while gambit has them pinned down would have a high chance of working then a head on attack because of the element of suprise,your guys have a good chance of winning both ways though
" @Matezoide: ok,i'll give a opnion next time :),but whats the diferance between suggesting and giving a opnion sounds the same to me? "
well a suggestion would be like ''i think he could send Wolverine to sneak on then while Gambit and NC keeps then busy'' while an oppnion is something more like ''i think Power NeXus/Donovan got a better chance of winning'' hope this explanation was good :)
" @Power NeXus: good plan using nightcrawler to counter man bat and gambit giving suppresive fire,i would suggest that instead of gambit and wolverine rushing keep gambit at a distance laying down suppresive fire and have wolverine go though the buildings and come up behind them while gambit has them pinned down would have a high chance of working then a head on attack because of the element of suprise,your guys have a good chance of winning both ways though "
k4tzm4n made sure to let us know that we are not actually commanding our teams. We are just debating on the strategies we think they would use. Since my team is aware of Deathstroke's and Bane's intelligence, I can't see them trying to use a strategy that involves sneak attacks. They know their primary advantage is in raw power, so they are more effective using a simple 'hit them till they drop' sort of plan.
1) Assume Slade's sword won't break from Wolverine's claws. I wanted to avoid adamantium / vibranium in these matches. 2) The X-Men know nothing of their foes intellect or tactics. They only know: A) Names (Bane, Man-Bat, Deathstroke) B) Standard Gear (Bane, unarmed. Man-Bat, unarmed. Deathstroke, sword)
@Donovan Montgomery: @Power NeXus: If the person has a valid reason, we can give them some time. However, I think a week (7 days) without posting should count as disqualification.
"I can't believe why i can't join this type of battle. Do your best Donovan!",) "
Why can't you? "
well, i really want to. I joined marveljackass tourney ( which i actually like because there are long range powers. hehehe",)) but he didn''t pair me up to another viner. It would have been cool if it was me against Firestar or Son Of Storm.
"Marveljackass' tourney was stolen almost wholesale from NickA who didn't do an effective job of balancing things. "
That seems to happen a lot. Any time somebody starts up a really awesome tournament, a bunch of other pople try to start up their own tournaments one or two days later.
First: Bane owns the city...... Deathstroke ain't afraid of nobody.... Man-bat speaks for himself... So for these reasons, my team will easily dissmiss those pesky X-Men: to let Bane sum this up.....
Ok, seriously, I will now try to tell you why and how Deathstroke will lead his team to victory over these three tought foes called "X-Men"
He knows they are up against a potentially feral man with claws, super human senses, a healing factor that surpasses his own, and is an expert fighter. A man who can kinetically charge objects and throw them like mini bombs, carries around decks of cards as his personal arsenal, has a surpurbly durable bo staff, is a trained thief (assumes he is pretty good at sneeking around not being seen or heard), and also is an expert fighter. And third, a teleporter with amazing agility, the ability to blend into shadows, and a prehensible tail. He also knows they work extreamly well as a team.
So here's what I think he would do.......
I think he would stay away from the higher levels of buildings, knowing their opponents could just blow them down. He would try to pair up the combatants, first taking Gabit himself, letting Bane go after Wolverine, and Man-Bat go for Nightcrawller. As you can see from these scans, Deathstroke can easily dodge gun fire, and Gambit can't thow as fast as a bullet. Deathstroke is a also a much better fighter than Gambit, so in this situation, he should win relativly easy.
Unfortunatly I don't have any Bane scans, but I do think against Wolverine Deathstroke believes Bane can hold his own, if not down right beat Wolverine. But in the case that he can't Deathstroke won't be far behind to help out.
Man-Bat vs Nightcrawller will be intresting as it's going to be hard for Man-bat to catch NC untill he ports onto him. If/when this happens, since NC is unarmed, Man-bat would naturaly try to get NC off him by rolling and flying dangourusly close to outcropping and walls. If NC tries to tangle Man-bat up forcing him to land, I think this could be a misstake as M-B would just need a hit or two with his claws to ko NC. I also think M-B would try to get as close to Deathstroke before landing as he has a history of taking out super- speedsters This is after Flash already beat DS to the ground .....even tho NC isn't a sppedster I think DS would find a pattern to the telleports and be able to predict where NC will apear, timming a precise hit for another ko.
If the fight between Bane and Wolverine is still going on, or Wolverine beat Bane, by this time, Deathstroke and Man-bat will be able to defeat him with a double team effort.
My teams best, and really only, hope to win this battle is with Deathstrokes amazing thought process. wich unfortunatly is about 85% more efficiant than mine :/
I think he would stay away from the higher levels of buildings, knowing their opponents could just blow them down. He would try to pair up the combatants, first taking Gabit himself, letting Bane go after Wolverine, and Man-Bat go for Nightcrawller.
And how does he plan on getting all the players divied up that perfectly? The trios start in a group, and fairly far apart from the other team. The only sure-fire matchup between our teams is Man-Bat vs Nightcrawler, since they are the only two who can quickly take to the upper levels. For the fighters who have to stay on the ground, there isn't really a way to pick and choose who you fight.
As you can see from these scans, Deathstroke can easily dodge gun fire, and Gambit can't thow as fast as a bullet.
Gambit doesn't necessarily need that kind of throwing speed, since he doesn't have to tag Deathstroke directly to hit him. This is something I've learned from playing video games. If you have a rocket launcher or something, the rockets usually travel kinda slow and are prone to missing if you aim directly at your enemy. But if you just shoot at the ground by your enemy's feet, he will still be injured by the explosion. And, as you saw in the scans I posted earlier, Gambit has sufficient throwing speed and accuracy to cut a single wire on a spinning canister bomb to defuse it. Hitting the pavement by Deathstroke's feat shouldn't be a problem at all.
Deathstroke is a also a much better fighter than Gambit, so in this situation, he should win relativly easy.
Deathstoke's only chance of winning is if he can get into close quarters with Gambit. Deathstroke doesn't have any long-range attacks here. And I've already stated that the X-Men's initial strategy would involve Gambit getting out in the middle of the street and chucking cards at anything that moves. Since Gambit is out in the open and not in one of the buildings, Deathstroke won't have an opportunity to get close to Gambit without being a completely open target.
Unfortunatly I don't have any Bane scans, but I do think against Wolverine Deathstroke believes Bane can hold his own, if not down right beat Wolverine. But in the case that he can't Deathstroke won't be far behind to help out.
I don't see how this match-up is even debatable. Wolverine would destroy Bane without effort. They are generally equals in hand-to-hand combat skill, but Wolverine is stronger (Bane is not on venom, and I can provide plenty of Wolverine's strength feats), faster (I can provide his speed feats), he has a healing factor that allows him to hang with the Hulk, and he has claws. Bane has absolutely no chance at all in a straight up fight against Wolverine.
Man-Bat vs Nightcrawller will be intresting as it's going to be hard for Man-bat to catch NC untill he ports onto him. If/when this happens, since NC is unarmed, Man-bat would naturaly try to get NC off him by rolling and flying dangourusly close to outcropping and walls. If NC tries to tangle Man-bat up forcing him to land, I think this could be a misstake as M-B would just need a hit or two with his claws to ko NC.
I don't know much about Man-Bat, but it doesn't look like he's too terribly different from Bird-Man (in my first post, I posted a scan of Nightcrawler one-shotting Bird-Man without even having to use teleportation). They both have flight, talons/claws, and a low degree of superhuman strength and durability. The only real difference I can see is that Man-Bat has echolocation, whereas Bird-Man does not. I have already shown scans of Nightcrawler not only one-shotting Bird-Man (who seems to be Man-Bat's equal) but also utilizing his teleportation to beat Rogue, who is much stronger and a much faster flyer than Man-Bat is.
I also think M-B would try to get as close to Deathstroke before landing as he has a history of taking out super- speedsters
He didn't exactly beat Flash there, per se. He just sucker-punched him with a staff blast (which he does not have in this fight), and then tripped him.
If the fight between Bane and Wolverine is still going on, or Wolverine beat Bane, by this time, Deathstroke and Man-bat will be able to defeat him with a double team effort.
Wolverine can one-shot Bane, and Nightcrawler won't take too long taking out Man-Bat either.
To be honest, Deathstroke is the only member of your team whom I am worried about at all. Man-Bat is just a guy with wings, talons, echolocation, and a little bit of strength. I quite honestly think that he could be beaten quite easily by Wolverine, Gambit, or Nightcrawler. Bane is just a highly skilled hand-to-hand combatant with Olympic-level attributes. Again, I quite honestly think he could be beaten by Wolverine, Gambit, or Nightcrawler. If you think it necessary, I can go through those 6 potential matchups (ie, Man-Bat vs any of my 3, and Bane vs any of my 3) and explain precisely how and why my guys would win. Bane and Man-Bat are just outclassed here, pure and simple. Deathstroke is the only member of your team with any significant offensive capabilities (a sword). I can see him beating Nightcrawler if it's 1-on-1, or beating Gambit if it's 1-on-1 in close quarters. But I can't see him beating Wolverine, I can't see him beating Gambit if they start at a distance, and I can't see him beating any combination of two or three of my guys.
Here are some of the scans I said I would show. Nightcrawler's strength, durability, and dodging skill:
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1)Nightcrawler uses a metal club to cruch a Sentinel's head. 2)Nightcrawler dodges energy blast a point blank range (and uses quick thinking to trick the attackers into shooting each other). 3)Nightcrawler hurts an alternate reality Captain Britian (who has superhuman strength) with a kick to the head. 4)Nightcrawler easily dodges automatic gunfire at point blank range from behind. 5)Nightcrawler, using just two swords, takes on an entire ship full of pirates and emerges completely unhurt (and never had to teleport). 6)Nightcrawler tanks a blow from Sebastian Shaw, who had knocked out Rogue previously in the fight. 7)Nightcrawler uses his strength to take down a huge troll.
Wolverine's speed:
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1) Wolverine starts out several feet away from Nuke. Nuke presses the 'launch' button on his rocket launcher, and Wolverine kicks it away before the rocket leaves the barrel. 2) Wolverine dodges gunfire from self-proclaimed 'deadshots'. 3 and 4) Wolverine dodges close range bullets while attacking Bushwacker (even Daredevil is impressed by Wolverine's dodging skill). 5 and 6) Wolverine takes on a very large group of people with automatic weapons, and doesn't get hit. 7) Wolverine dodges automatic gunfire while in a cloud of nerve gas. 8, 9, and 10) This is one of my favorites. Wolverine uses his claws to stop a bullet, after the trigger has been pulled but before the bullet leaves the barrel. 11 and 12) Wolverine slices the barrels off of guns so quickly that the gunmen aren't even aware of what happened.
Wolverine's strength:
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1) Wolverine snaps a dinosaur's neck with his bare hands. 2) Wolverine carries a dead elk/moose/something over one shoulder with no apparent effort. Contect implies that he has carried this animal a long way, in the snow. 3) Wolverine throws a shark out of the water (extremely impressive since he was in the water, and there was no leverage under his feet). 4) Wolverine holds up an elevator car filled with people.
So here's the basic gist of things. Your team's strategy is for Deathstroke to take on Gambit, Bane to take on Wolverine, and Man-Bat to take on Nightcrawler. My team's strategy is for Nightcrawler to take to the rooftops, Gambit to stand in the middle of the street and fling cards from long-range, and Wolverine to hang back and wait until he sees a target Gambit can't hit.
This means Man-Bat and Nightcrawler are going to meet somewhere over the rooftops. I have already provided scans that indicate Nightcrawler is strong enough to hurt Man-Bat with his punches, durable enough to take a few hits, he has skill in taking down airborne adversaries, and he is way too fast for Man-Bat to attack.
Bane and Wolverine may or may not have a fight at all. It is entirely possible that Bane will be hit by Gambit's cards before he can even get anywhere. However, on the chance that he doesn't get hit by any cards, I imagine he would work his way through the buildings in order to get close to Wolverine. Then he will die. Wolverine will smell Bane coming long before he attacks (I don't think I even need to post scans of his senses). I have already shown scans that show Wolverine is stronger than Bane (un-venomed Bane, at least), faster than Bane (I have never heard of any Bane feats that involve dodging bullets or moving faster than the eye can follow), Wolverine has a healing factor that Bane simply can not get around, and claws that can gut Bane in one hit.
Finally, there's Deathstroke vs Gambit. Like I said before, Gambit's explosions could hurt Deathstroke if he just aims at the ground around him. And even if Deathstroke does manage to get cover and stay away from Gambit's cards, Wolverine will be finished with his fight within seconds of it's beginning, and Nightcrawler won't take too much longer. Unless Deathstroke can somehow close the gap (and it's a very long gap) and kill Gambit (who could stay alive for a little while even in melee combat) within a matter of seconds, he's going to find himself in a 3-on-1.
me: "I think he would stay away from the higher levels of buildings, knowing their opponents could just blow them down. He would try to pair up the combatants, first taking Gabit himself, letting Bane go after Wolverine, and Man-Bat go for Nightcrawller."
you:"And how does he plan on getting all the players divied up that perfectly? The trios start in a group, and fairly far apart from the other team. The only sure-fire matchup between our teams is Man-Bat vs Nightcrawler, since they are the only two who can quickly take to the upper levels. For the fighters who have to stay on the ground, there isn't really a way to pick and choose who you fight."
{Well, you already have Nightcrawller and Man-Bat together, I don't see any reason the other four won't do the same.}
me:"As you can see from these scans, Deathstroke can easily dodge gun fire, and Gambit can't thow as fast as a bullet."
you:"Gambit doesn't necessarily need that kind of throwing speed, since he doesn't have to tag Deathstroke directly to hit him. This is something I've learned from playing video games. If you have a rocket launcher or something, the rockets usually travel kinda slow and are prone to missing if you aim directly at your enemy. But if you just shoot at the ground by your enemy's feet, he will still be injured by the explosion. And, as you saw in the scans I posted earlier, Gambit has sufficient throwing speed and accuracy to cut a single wire on a spinning canister bomb to defuse it. Hitting the pavement by Deathstroke's feat shouldn't be a problem at all."
{Deathstroke is smart and talented enough to avoid and move forward toward Gambit as he throws his projectiles. This is what I believe he will be doing.}
me:"Deathstroke is a also a much better fighter than Gambit, so in this situation, he should win relativly easy."
you:"Deathstoke's only chance of winning is if he can get into close quarters with Gambit. Deathstroke doesn't have any long-range attacks here. And I've already stated that the X-Men's initial strategy would involve Gambit getting out in the middle of the street and chucking cards at anything that moves. Since Gambit is out in the open and not in one of the buildings, Deathstroke won't have an opportunity to get close to Gambit without being a completely open target. "
{if Gambit is just standin in the middle of the street when they are close enough to see each other, and with-in throwing range, what's to keep deathstroke or bane from grabbing a hubcap or other peice of debree lying around the street and throwing it toward gambit? i confident deathstroke has the skill to do this. Also, there are plenty of objects to move around to deflect gambits throws while my team moves up the street. Bane and DS will not be moving up together, they will be on either side of the street deviding gambits attention.}
me:"Unfortunatly I don't have any Bane scans, but I do think against Wolverine Deathstroke believes Bane can hold his own, if not down right beat Wolverine. But in the case that he can't Deathstroke won't be far behind to help out."
you:"I don't see how this match-up is even debatable. Wolverine would destroy Bane without effort. They are generally equals in hand-to-hand combat skill, but Wolverine is stronger (Bane is not on venom, and I can provide plenty of Wolverine's strength feats), faster (I can provide his speed feats), he has a healing factor that allows him to hang with the Hulk, and he has claws. Bane has absolutely no chance at all in a straight up fight against Wolverine."
{even not on venom, bane is a match for batman, wolverine is not that much higher in the fighting department (if at all) than batman. I agree the healing factor will play a large role in this battle, but bane could possibly break wolvies claws, all he has to do is catch wolvies arm as he swings then *snap*. sure they will grow back but at what price? -insert scan of wolvies claws getting broke- and even people with HF can be ko'd for short periods.}
me:"Man-Bat vs Nightcrawller will be intresting as it's going to be hard for Man-bat to catch NC untill he ports onto him. If/when this happens, since NC is unarmed, Man-bat would naturaly try to get NC off him by rolling and flying dangourusly close to outcropping and walls. If NC tries to tangle Man-bat up forcing him to land, I think this could be a misstake as M-B would just need a hit or two with his claws to ko NC. "
you:"I don't know much about Man-Bat, but it doesn't look like he's too terribly different from Bird-Man (in my first post, I posted a scan of Nightcrawler one-shotting Bird-Man without even having to use teleportation). They both have flight, talons/claws, and a low degree of superhuman strength and durability. The only real difference I can see is that Man-Bat has echolocation, whereas Bird-Man does not. I have already shown scans of Nightcrawler not only one-shotting Bird-Man (who seems to be Man-Bat's equal) but also utilizing his teleportation to beat Rogue, who is much stronger and a much faster flyer than Man-Bat is."
{It could be argued that Man-bat would have a higher durability than bird-man due to the leathery texture of his skin. That aside, Nightcrawller suddenly apearing on his back stinking up the air will no doubt startle man-bat, but he would be expecting it and be prepaired to confront NC. again, a quick roll before NC can get a grip will send him falling, where this is not a real threat for nc, he will have to teleport and man-bat just has to figure out to what rooftop he is going and be there to grab him.}
me:"I also think M-B would try to get as close to Deathstroke before landing as he has a history of taking out super- speedsters."
you:"He didn't exactly beat Flash there, per se. He just sucker-punched him with a staff blast (which he does not have in this fight), and then tripped him."
{I left the staff-blast in for continuity reason's, I did not want people thinkin I was trying to over do this feat. Just before the blast, flash laid D-S out with a flurry of punches but D-S got up and took off pretty quick, showing his durability.}
{It doesn't really matter what happend after this, the fact is, he did it. There is also that time D-S timed and anticipated Flashes actions well enough in advance to be able to stab him (seen the scans, not sure where they are :/) I can see him doing similar with N-C if the need arises.}
me: "I think he would stay away from the higher levels of buildings, knowing their opponents could just blow them down. He would try to pair up the combatants, first taking Gabit himself, letting Bane go after Wolverine, and Man-Bat go for Nightcrawller."
you:"And how does he plan on getting all the players divied up that perfectly? The trios start in a group, and fairly far apart from the other team. The only sure-fire matchup between our teams is Man-Bat vs Nightcrawler, since they are the only two who can quickly take to the upper levels. For the fighters who have to stay on the ground, there isn't really a way to pick and choose who you fight."
{Well, you already have Nightcrawller and Man-Bat together, I don't see any reason the other four won't do the same.}
What I meant was, Gambit is already planning on getting out in the open and spamming cards at Deathstroke and Bane at the same time. Your guys will have to go out of their ways to make sure the fights end up with 3 1-on-1s, and everybody is fighting the person Deathstroke planned on. It's still entirely possible that Bane will be taken out by Gambit's cards before he can even get to Wolverine (Deathstroke may have bullet dodging feats, but I've never seen any noteworthy speed feats from Bane).
me:"As you can see from these scans, Deathstroke can easily dodge gun fire, and Gambit can't thow as fast as a bullet."
you:"Gambit doesn't necessarily need that kind of throwing speed, since he doesn't have to tag Deathstroke directly to hit him. This is something I've learned from playing video games. If you have a rocket launcher or something, the rockets usually travel kinda slow and are prone to missing if you aim directly at your enemy. But if you just shoot at the ground by your enemy's feet, he will still be injured by the explosion. And, as you saw in the scans I posted earlier, Gambit has sufficient throwing speed and accuracy to cut a single wire on a spinning canister bomb to defuse it. Hitting the pavement by Deathstroke's feat shouldn't be a problem at all."
{Deathstroke is smart and talented enough to avoid and move forward toward Gambit as he throws his projectiles. This is what I believe he will be doing.}
Gambit's cards aren't just little firecrackers or anything. They make very well-sized explosions. Even with Deathstroke's amazing dodging skill, he will still be fighting a heavy uphill battle. The whole time he is trying to close the gap (and like I said, it's quite a large gap) he will be getting injured and knocked off his feet by explosions all around him.
me:"Deathstroke is a also a much better fighter than Gambit, so in this situation, he should win relativly easy."
you:"Deathstoke's only chance of winning is if he can get into close quarters with Gambit. Deathstroke doesn't have any long-range attacks here. And I've already stated that the X-Men's initial strategy would involve Gambit getting out in the middle of the street and chucking cards at anything that moves. Since Gambit is out in the open and not in one of the buildings, Deathstroke won't have an opportunity to get close to Gambit without being a completely open target. "
{if Gambit is just standin in the middle of the street when they are close enough to see each other, and with-in throwing range, what's to keep deathstroke or bane from grabbing a hubcap or other peice of debree lying around the street and throwing it toward gambit? i confident deathstroke has the skill to do this. Also, there are plenty of objects to move around to deflect gambits throws while my team moves up the street. Bane and DS will not be moving up together, they will be on either side of the street deviding gambits attention.}
Gambit has sufficient speed/reflexes/agility to catch a bullet out of the air at close range (I can provide scans of this). No matter what DS or Bane try to throw at him, he can either dodge it, or catch it out the air and throw it right back. And if DS and Bane are trying to divide Gambit's attention by moving on either side of the street, it won't work for long. If Bane doesn't stay under cover he will be a very easy target (like I said before, I don't know that he has any noteworthy speed feats at all, nor does he have the strength/durability to tank large explosions). Gambit would only need to take a second or two to hit Bane with a couple of cards, leaving Deathstroke (still a good distance away) to have to fight Gambit and Wolverine all by himself.
me:"Unfortunatly I don't have any Bane scans, but I do think against Wolverine Deathstroke believes Bane can hold his own, if not down right beat Wolverine. But in the case that he can't Deathstroke won't be far behind to help out."
you:"I don't see how this match-up is even debatable. Wolverine would destroy Bane without effort. They are generally equals in hand-to-hand combat skill, but Wolverine is stronger (Bane is not on venom, and I can provide plenty of Wolverine's strength feats), faster (I can provide his speed feats), he has a healing factor that allows him to hang with the Hulk, and he has claws. Bane has absolutely no chance at all in a straight up fight against Wolverine."
{even not on venom, bane is a match for batman, wolverine is not that much higher in the fighting department (if at all) than batman. I agree the healing factor will play a large role in this battle, but bane could possibly break wolvies claws, all he has to do is catch wolvies arm as he swings then *snap*. sure they will grow back but at what price? -insert scan of wolvies claws getting broke- and even people with HF can be ko'd for short periods.}
I have already said I believe Bane and Wolverine are roughly equals in terms of raw skill, but I have already shown quite a few scans to indicate that Wolverine is much faster and stronger than Bane is.
Furthermore, breaking Wolverine's claws is a rather ridiculous idea, IMO. 1) I have already provided scans showing that Wolverine's bone claws have sufficient compression strength to rend solid steel without snapping. They would be far too durable for someone of normal human strength to simply snap off in his hand. 2) It isn't as if Wolverine is just an idiot who swings his claws around wildly. He is a highly-skilled martial artist with over a hundred years of experience in using his claws in combat (and quite a bit of that time has been with just bone claws; no adamantium). There's no way he would be stupid enough to let somebody slower than him simply grab his arm and snap his claws off (provided the assailant even had the strength to perform such a feat). 3) Wolverine has two arms. Both arms have claws at the end. Bane grabs one arm, Wolverine just shrugs and stabs him with the other. And all of this is purely theoretical anyway, if Bane chooses to stay in the open where Gambit can tag him with cards.
me:"Man-Bat vs Nightcrawller will be intresting as it's going to be hard for Man-bat to catch NC untill he ports onto him. If/when this happens, since NC is unarmed, Man-bat would naturaly try to get NC off him by rolling and flying dangourusly close to outcropping and walls. If NC tries to tangle Man-bat up forcing him to land, I think this could be a misstake as M-B would just need a hit or two with his claws to ko NC. "
you:"I don't know much about Man-Bat, but it doesn't look like he's too terribly different from Bird-Man (in my first post, I posted a scan of Nightcrawler one-shotting Bird-Man without even having to use teleportation). They both have flight, talons/claws, and a low degree of superhuman strength and durability. The only real difference I can see is that Man-Bat has echolocation, whereas Bird-Man does not. I have already shown scans of Nightcrawler not only one-shotting Bird-Man (who seems to be Man-Bat's equal) but also utilizing his teleportation to beat Rogue, who is much stronger and a much faster flyer than Man-Bat is."
{It could be argued that Man-bat would have a higher durability than bird-man due to the leathery texture of his skin. That aside, Nightcrawller suddenly apearing on his back stinking up the air will no doubt startle man-bat, but he would be expecting it and be prepaired to confront NC. again, a quick roll before NC can get a grip will send him falling, where this is not a real threat for nc, he will have to teleport and man-bat just has to figure out to what rooftop he is going and be there to grab him.}
In response to Man-Bat's durability, I have shown a scan of Nightcrawler punching out a very large troll. Slightly superhuman durability won't be a problem for him. In response to Man-Bat rolling before Nightcrawler can hang on to him, Nightcrawler's hands and feet can adhere to surfaces, much like Spider-Man. Nightcrawler doesn't need to get a hand-hold on Man-Bat. He just needs to touch him to hang on. In response to Man-Bat beating Nightcrawler simply by figure out what rooftop he's on and grabbing him... I don't even know what to say to that. You are severly underestimating Nightcrawler's reflexes and quick thinking. Nightcrawler can teleport to half a dozen different rooftops before Man-Bat can even reach the first one (scans will be provided). There is absolutely no way at all that somebody like Man-Bat can beat him just by shaking him off in the air (which I don't think Man-Bat could do in the first place) and then grabbing him after he teleports.
me:"I also think M-B would try to get as close to Deathstroke before landing as he has a history of taking out super- speedsters."
you:"He didn't exactly beat Flash there, per se. He just sucker-punched him with a staff blast (which he does not have in this fight), and then tripped him."
{I left the staff-blast in for continuity reason's, I did not want people thinkin I was trying to over do this feat. Just before the blast, flash laid D-S out with a flurry of punches but D-S got up and took off pretty quick, showing his durability.}
From the looks of those scans, it doesn't look like Flash was even trying to knock Deathstroke out. Really, who would want their villian to lose conciousness before you finish explaining how much faster you are than him? "Come off it you really didn't think you could move faster... oops. He's out cold." So while taking those punches might be a credit to Deathstroke's durability, I'm fairly sure Flash was purposefully holding back enough to make sure Deathstroke could listen to him finish gloating.
{It doesn't really matter what happend after this, the fact is, he did it. There is also that time D-S timed and anticipated Flashes actions well enough in advance to be able to stab him (seen the scans, not sure where they are :/) I can see him doing similar with N-C if the need arises.}
Even the fastest speedster can be taken out by an attack they just don't see coming. Wolverine once managed to take out Northstar by attacking him from behind. That doesn't mean Wolverine is fast enough to even touch Northstar when he know the attack is coming.
-=Scans=-
Power of Gambit's explosions
Gallery
1 and 2) Three cards together make a poweful enough explosion to destroy a large truck.
Gambit's deflecting abilities
Gallery
1) Gambit uses his agility to dodge several energy beams, all coming from different directions. 2) Gambit uses his staff to block automatic gunfire 3) Gambit catches a bullet out of mid-air, charges it, and throws it back. 4) Gambit uses his staff to block several close-range energy blasts from Forge (who is completely astonished at Gambit's skill)
Nightcrawler's teleportation speed
Gallery
1) This is one of his more amazing speed feats. Sentinels are attacking the mansion, and Kurt leaves the battlefield to gather some equipment (bombs actually). In total he plants 6 (one on each leg), and in total it takes him 9 seconds to place the bombs and everything. So what's the big deal? It's the fact that he set all the detonators for 10 seconds. So in the time frame of 10 seconds (starting at when he set the first bomb since that's when the clock would have started) he was able to both arm bomb and port them all to where they needed to be. 2 and 3) Two separate instances of Nightcrawler teleporting so rapidly that he can knock out 3 different people before the first one hits the floor.
Guys, don't forget EVERYTHING is on limits. This means characters can go inside the buildings or even underground (assume it's a standard 1 tunnel sewer system)
"Guys, don't forget EVERYTHING is on limits. This means characters can go inside the buildings or even underground (assume it's a standard 1 tunnel sewer system) "
I realize that. I just think the X-Men (especially Gambit) are more effective if they keep the fight out in the open.
@k4tzm4n: Actually, I thank you cause that is what I was going to put in there, forgot about that. After reading,typing and takin care of things around me (4 young 'uns) it totally sliped my mind.
@Power NeXus: I'm also having trouble finding any speed feats for Bane :( Also, I'm not so much as trying to downplay any of your teams skills, abilities, and powers (I know these X-Mens abilities much better than I know most DC characters), as I'm trying to up- grade my teams ;) What's Gambits range with his throwing? A few hundred yards should be nothing really for Deathstroke to cover.
....Now to say what I ment to earlier, and k4tz so kindly reminded me, Deathstoke seeing Gambit in the street would actually look to the underground for movement purposes. Perhaps just sending Bane down and keeping your team distracted above ground. Not seeing Bane go underground (they would be doieg this out of your teams line of sight), it would be assumed he was making his way thro the buildings. I think Bane has the smarts to figure how far he would have to go to come up around your team....at the least he would just have to make it passed the explosions to figure out where to come up.
I think Bane has the smarts to figure how far he would have to go to come up around your team....at the least he would just have to make it passed the explosions to figure out where to come up.
It's not like the sewers have manhole every five or ten feet. On a map this size, I wouldn't imagine there are more than two or three entrances/exits to the sewer in the whole map. @k4tzm4n said:
"
@Donovan Montgomery: @Power NeXus: I'd like to land a helping hand whenever possible....
DM requires a Bane speed feat. I happen to have one. Power NeXus, with your approval, I'll give him the scan.
"
All the scans I've been providing come from links that Andferne gave me. There's nothing unfair about you helping out Donovan.
@Donovan Montgomery: It's important to note that Bane is wearing the equipment required for venom and Hourglass remarks on believing Bane took a "booster hit" of venom, however Bane later reveals he was only wearing it to decieve them and there's no venom in it. This was well after he cured his addiction to the drug, too.
@Power NeXus: Thanks. I just wanted your approval. Also, regarding the sewers, assume there's an entrance at both starting points, as well as one in the middle. That seems like the most fairest option.
Alright, so Bane could come up behind them, Wolverine would have to A)turn back to face him or B) if he somehow sences Bane in the sewers, head down after him taking him off the street and leaving Gambit to face an opponent that is, IMO, way above his abbilities to beat. Going by that scan, I would say Bane is at least at peak human speed, which is pretty fast, and should stand toe to toe with Wolvie for a good fight.
I'm sorry, I can't really come up with anything to help Man-bat defeat Nightcrawller, the only thing in his defense is he'll be expecting NC to port on/near him and he may be able to grab and slash before NC ports out again.
Wolverine would have to A)turn back to face him or B) if he somehow sences Bane in the sewers, head down after him
Wolverine probably won't bother heading down after Bane. Bane will not be an issue at all until he comes back to the surface, at which point Wolverine will sense him and the plan will adjust accordingly. Deathstroke is definitely a more dangerous opponent than Bane is, so Wolverine would prefer to help Gambit with a two-on-one rather than split off and go solo against Bane.
taking him off the street and leaving Gambit to face an opponent that is, IMO, way above his abbilities to beat.
Since Bane is working his way through the sewer and Wolverine is staying on the surface to help Gambit, Deathstroke will be caught in a 2-on-1 fight. Gambit will already have him injured from the dozens of explosions he will have had to tank while attempting to close the gap. Since he will be wounded, he will not be able to fight at full efficiency. From there, there are multiple strategies Wolverine and Gambit could employ. 1) Circle around him with hit-and-run melee attacks. One guy with one sword can't defend against a bo staff and two sets of claws, all coming from different directions. 2) Carpet bomb. Gambit could charge a whole handful of cards, scatter them all over the ground around Deathstroke. I've already shown a scan of just three cards making a large enough explosion to total a large truck. A well-executed 'carped bomb' from Gambit would be more than enough to take out Deathstroke. Those are just two possible strategies I came up with right off the bat. I'm sure that well-experienced combatants like Remy and Logan could come up with another half dozen good ideas for putting Deathstroke down.
Going by that scan, I would say Bane is at least at peak human speed, which is pretty fast, and should stand toe to toe with Wolvie for a good fight.
The only things Bane has going for him are hand-to-hand combat skill (about equal to Wolverine's) and peak human physical stats (though I believe Wolverine is still stronger and faster). He still has no offensive capabilities that could hurt Wolverine at all, and no defensive capabilities that could keep him from being one-shotted by Wolverine's claws. Wolverine once killed an entire army of Hand ninjas (all of them armed, and numbering somewhere around 1,000 I think). To Wolverine, an unarmed, unarmored foe with no superhuman capabilities, and only peak human stats and high combat skill to his name is barely even worth looking at twice. In a nutshell: Bane can't hurt Wolverine, and he can't take any of the hurt that Wolverine dishes out.
the only thing in his defense is he'll be expecting NC to port on/near him and he may be able to grab and slash before NC ports out again.
That would be Man-Bat's only chance, but I don't see it working. I don't think he has the reflexes to attack the very split-second Nightcrawler appears, or the flexibility to grab and attack someone who has landed on his back, or the speed to land a sucessful attack before Nightcrawler can 'port away. Rogue was completely unable to do any of that in the scan I showed on page 1, so I don't think Man-Bat would fare any better.
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