no it's not all these... It's just the creators of each universe vs each other and it is a draw unless someone can prove that One Above All can beat the Presence etc...
Hmm...another good point....of course in Theology Christian God has never met another being of similar power....he is the Alhpa and Omega...the everything....so there is no need for him to fight.
"no it's not all these... It's just the creators of each universe vs each other and it is a draw unless someone can prove that One Above All can beat the Presence etc..."
God never does battle like that, even in our world Christian God uses Angels and Mortals to fight Satan, he never gets directly involved, these two would be no different especailly the one that is kind of based on christian God."
lettme get this strait ur letting every charicter from every comic book fight?this thread cant be done NONE of us can even imgine the huge numbers involved its overwhelming its mind bogleing logistics. if anything i'd say marvel cu they have the petagree and the sheer numbers from all the alternite universes in all the timelines. that like 4 phoenixes working togather. u got 2 cables (one without the virus)...still only one x man.wierd... but all there power houses are times 2. theres 2 apocolipses. onslaught the hulk juggernaught and trion juggs.proffessor x's probably just going aroung murdering mass groups of others.(theres one of him for each time line and one where he instead of marko got the juggs power.) theres like 4 magnetosjust crushing people.
"God never does battle like that, even in our world Christian God uses Angels and Mortals to fight Satan, he never gets directly involved, these two would be no different especailly the one that is kind of based on christian God."
It's company against company. Everyone fights. He said no limits, everyone in. No argument there.
eganthevile1 said:
"Marvel Celestial, Uni-Power, Phoenix Force, Epoch, Lady Death, Odin, Living Tribunal, Galactus, In-Betweener, Order, Kaos, Stranger, Galactus, Sentry, Thor, Loki, Doc Strange, Professor X, Gladiator, Uatu, Dormammu, Mephisto, Thanos, Sleeping Celestial, Eternity and a myriad of the greatest heroes and villains alive today!"
DC has people that could match these that you name.
"lettme get this strait ur letting every charicter from every comic book fight?this thread cant be done NONE of us can even imgine the huge numbers involved its overwhelming its mind bogleing logistics. if anything i'd say marvel cu they have the petagree and the sheer numbers from all the alternite universes in all the timelines. that like 4 phoenixes working togather. u got 2 cables (one without the virus)...still only one x man.wierd... but all there power houses are times 2. theres 2 apocolipses. onslaught the hulk juggernaught and trion juggs.proffessor x's probably just going aroung murdering mass groups of others.(theres one of him for each time line and one where he instead of marko got the juggs power.) theres like 4 magnetosjust crushing people."
" Then marvel wins, DC versions of God have been killed and layed low by it's own creations, the Spectre (which many said was at full power, meaning all of gods wrath) couldn't even handle Ion.
The Presence/Source is DC's God. Not Spectre. No one has ever killed him.
OH I FORGOT!!! MOJO's world there are tiny versions of the x men being massed produced.so intell thats distroyed theres infinate number of prof x sending people to the astrial plane.
"He is an extension of Gods power and his powers are dependent on how much power God gives him, if he is at full power than that is the full wrath of God, therefore against the wrath of God Ion was victorious."
But, he's not God. God is all powerful. He isn't. God cannot be beaten. The Spectre may have been beaten, but not the Presence/Source.
If that were true than Spectre would have been powerful enough to not be trapped in green chains right? to prove that TOAA is greater, when LT speaks as a representative of TOAA everybody listens, when the Spectre does as a rep. of God he is met with resistance, his power can also be stolen by Black Alice, I doubt the all mighty God would be so careless, Takion is the Source made flesh so to speak and he too has been layed low by lesser beings, you figure in battles that threaten to undo all that God has done, two beings empowered by him would be able to handle the aggressors, neiher of them could."
Spectre may have been beaten, but how can you beat the Source when he's omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent, as well as being the source of creation? Everyone listening to the Living Tribunal is different (seeing that Living Tribunal is on another level from Spectre), while no one does the same for Spectre has nothing to do with it. If his power can be stolen by Black Alice, then what does that tell you about Spectre? He doesn't represent God... He's not as powerful as God. Beating Spectre doesn't equate being Source. He can empower anybody he wants, but that doesn't mean he's giving 100% of it. Takion is may be of the Source, but he's not 100% of the Source, but a Source Elemental.
You can't beat someone who's omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent. Especially when no lesser being has done it. Spectre being defeated by Ion has nothing to do with the Source itself.
"The way Spectre appears near the end should be evidence enough that God was like ok now I'll send in my wrath to stop this foolishness, yet he was unable to."
And, the Source wasn't defeated, yet he sent someone else to do his job for him. The Source can't be defeated by a lesser being.
"when u get dr doom dr strange mr fantastic and magneto to gather im sure they can create a mechine to take away the powers of the source."
Really? You don't think Source would already know what they are planning? That wouldn't work. If they tried that on One-Above-All, they would fail. Gods like that know all things. You can't plan to defeat something of that caliber when it knows you're planning to.
"when u get dr doom dr strange mr fantastic and magneto to gather im sure they can create a mechine to take away the powers of the source."
Really? You don't think Source would already know what they are planning? That wouldn't work. If they tried that on One-Above-All, they would fail. Gods like that know all things. You can't plan to defeat something of that caliber when it knows you're planning to."
true but it has alowed it befor why wouldent it allow it agen.
i can do one better OUR god who is more omnipitant allowed satin to usurp his powers (devil worshiping.) now as far as toaa goes im not sure but im sure uatu and the other watchers can give him a run for his money.
Yeah when TOAA sent LT to stop the IG it was stopped. When the Starbrand was too much for 616, LT stopped it. When the HoTI was in play TOAA acted directly to stop it. As I said DC versions of God have proven that they are not as omnipotent as people believe or the creatures they empower to the fullest would never fail. I hear even Superman can break down the gates of Heaven, which is utterly ridiculous since God decides who goes in and out.
"
The Source can't be defeated. Never has been. Never will be, unless it's fighting some equal. Just because they send people to do things for them and fail, doesn't mean that the Source itself can be beaten. He's not giving these people 100% of his power. One-Above-All can Living Tribunal to do his bidding, but LT himself is omnipotent and omniscient, 2/3 as powerful as One-Above-All. The Spectre is nowhere close to being as powerful as LT. There's no comparison. As far as I'm concerned, the Spectre doesn't represent the Source. Just because someone says that Superman can break the gates of Heaven doesn't mean he can really do it. It would be different if the Source itself said it was possible. However, the Source is the reason why the Omega Beams don't effect Superman. If the Source wanted, he could allow Superman to do so, but there's no evidence that Superman could do it under his own strength. Why? Because it's never happened.
"i can do one better OUR god who is more omnipitant allowed satin to usurp his powers (devil worshiping.) now as far as toaa goes im not sure but im sure uatu and the other watchers can give him a run for his money."
the devil has been allowed by God to more or less rule as he pleases to allow humans a chance to prove themselves, it is the reason we were given freewill, so that the prophecy of revelations make since. If you are talking about the TOAA that is a celestial maybe, but the other not so much, Uatu was the one that called Phoenix second to the creator (TOAA) if he could give it/her/him a run for its/his/her money I'm sure he would have not made that comment."
i said uatu and all the watchers the whole spiecies and there are like 4 phoenixes 4 all fully powered and everything.
"i can do one better OUR god who is more omnipitant allowed satin to usurp his powers (devil worshiping.) now as far as toaa goes im not sure but im sure uatu and the other watchers can give him a run for his money."
Satan isn't omnipotent like our God is... And, Satan, like everyone else, has free will. God isn't gonna stop someone from getting their own power. And the Uatu isn't on One-Above-All's level. He's the most powerful being in the Marvel Universe. He made the Watchers. LOL.
"i can do one better OUR god who is more omnipitant allowed satin to usurp his powers (devil worshiping.) now as far as toaa goes im not sure but im sure uatu and the other watchers can give him a run for his money."
Satan isn't omnipotent like our God is... And, Satan, like everyone else, has free will. God isn't gonna stop someone from getting their own power. And the Uatu isn't on One-Above-All's level. He's the most powerful being in the Marvel Universe. He made the Watchers. LOL."
so they wouldent be fighting eachother anyway. its marvel vs blah marvel curbstomp!!
Ok, take out the Absolute Beings and leave everyone else, and Marvel wins. Pre-Retcon Beyonder takes everyone by himself. He punked the Living Tribunal. Or just throw in Squirrel-Girl. The more powerful the figure she fights, the more brutal the take down. Squirrel-Girl is a plot-device of epic proportions.
" If the source is as Omni-everything as you say, then it's agents would not fail. So you're saying that the Source/God knew that Takion and Spectre would be no match for Ion? A truly Omnipotent God would never allow his champions to be beaten if he sent them to fight unless to show them humility which was not the case during Zero Hour. A truly omniscient then it would have known the outcome and being omnipotent would have given them the power needed to win. Now if you want to argue that all this was allowed to happen because God and his ways are unknowable then fine, but DC didn't write it that way and when your agents fail you by extention fail unless you come in and do something about it. That is why TOAA never intervenes it keeps the all powerful aspect of him intact."
Source's agents may fail, but Source isn't the one who fails. He can send off anyone to fight anybody, but it doesn't mean he's giving them the power to do it. If they lose, then it's on them. An omnipotnent God is omnipotent on his own, and he power doesn't extend to others unless he wants it to. His agents failing doesn't mean that the Source itself can lose to lesser beings.
Kimikirai said:
"Pre-retcon Beyonder was TOAA. And Dr. Doom beat him."
I don't know the Image, Dark Horse or Mirage gods are, so I will say draw between DC and Marvel. On account that They have THEE SUPREME BEINGS. So nothing else can beat them.
I thought before coming into this thread that if people actually said a company they would be fans of that company.
for example
Scarlet Thor said:
"no it's not all these... It's just the creators of each universe vs each other and it is a draw unless someone can prove that One Above All can beat the Presence etc..."
See the way he says if the MARVEL god can beat the DC GOD and not the other way around or something more along the lines of if one god can beat another.
And people that say otherwise are just fanboys. An equal can't beat an equal. That's why the term 'draw' is used.
"ISee the way he says if the MARVEL god can beat the DC GOD and not the other way around or something more along the lines of if one god can beat another.
And people that say otherwise are just fanboys. An equal can't beat an equal. That's why the term 'draw' is used. "
"ISee the way he says if the MARVEL god can beat the DC GOD and not the other way around or something more along the lines of if one god can beat another.
And people that say otherwise are just fanboys. An equal can't beat an equal. That's why the term 'draw' is used. "
Good point."
People like you who I felt that you were one of the smarter ones here.
Pre-retcon Beyonder was Marvel's original TOAA. They later reconned that, weakened Beyonder, and invented TOAA.
And Dr. Doom beat him AND Molecule Man, who recreated the Multi-verse after Beyonder willed it away. (all this Beyonder did using a tiny fraction of his power)
Image would win... The Man Of Miracles would come out and say "I am...that I am" and everyone in all the other Actualities would be erased from existence...
Pre-retcon Beyonder was Marvel's original TOAA. They later reconned that, weakened Beyonder, and invented TOAA.
And Dr. Doom beat him AND Molecule Man, who recreated the Multi-verse after Beyonder willed it away. (all this Beyonder did using a tiny fraction of his power)
"
Kudos. :)
I didn't read Secret War, by the way. That's why I asked.
In reality no one would actually win... they would all destroy each other and in the process all forms of reality and actuality would cease to exist...
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