*facepalm* Can't believe I forgot about the Phoenix!
@Son Of Storm: Eh... debatable. She's not, in my opinion, but that's just my opinion. I'm not sure where she is on the scale. She might be above Death. "
I think she is. "
Me too. *edits post.... again* "
Another thing about your list is "Galactus (full power). I believe it was Morpheus_ who said that this form is basically a myth. We've never seen Big G at full power because he's always using power. "
Again, debatable. In my opinion, "fully powered" he should be amongst the most powerful.
*facepalm* Can't believe I forgot about the Phoenix!
@Son Of Storm: Eh... debatable. She's not, in my opinion, but that's just my opinion. I'm not sure where she is on the scale. She might be above Death. "
I think she is. "
Me too. *edits post.... again* "
Another thing about your list is "Galactus (full power). I believe it was Morpheus_ who said that this form is basically a myth. We've never seen Big G at full power because he's always using power. "
Again, debatable. In my opinion, "fully powered" he should be amongst the most powerful. "
1. The One Above All & Pre Retcon Beyonder, Maybe Heart of the Universe (subjective) 2. Pre-Retcon Molecule Man 3. Living Tribunal 4. The Infinity Gauntlet (couldn't decide whether to put it before or after Eternity) 5. Eternity/Infinity (same being - kinda - together they represent the Marvel Multiverse) 6. Death 7. Phoenix Force 8. Lord Chaos, Master Order
OH HERE WE GO AGAIN STORM WILL NEVER BE A MARVEL TIER........ YES I AGREE STORM IS VERY POWERFUL BUT NOT POWERFUL ENOUGH TO BE A TIER......... UHMMMM HOW ABOUT SENTRY I THINK HIS A TIER
@xmenfallen: You don't have to apologize to me, you seemed to be the one who didn't want this thread going again. I understand the need to reply when you see something so wrong or out there that you can't help saying something. I run into that urge a lot between rbysjti and Gamora'sBigDaddy.
TOAA - the writer Pre-Ret Beyonder, he was RETCONED by Jim Shooter, TOAA at the time. But was stated to be millions of times more powerful than the multi-verse. AND Thanos with the heart of the infinite. The Infinity Being/The Nemesis- Created everything including the LT Pre-Ret Molecule Man, casually created a barrier stronger than the multi-verse Protege, casually WTFpwned the omniverse, LT included. Living Tribunal, self explanatory The Infinity Gauntlet, self explanatory again. Mad Jim Jaspers, even Merlyn with the Matrix admitted that he was not enough to defeat him. Merlyn with the Energy Matrix, an omniversal power pretty much. Galactus with the Ultimate Nullifier, can easily do what the Anti-Monitor/Abraxas were trying to do . Eternity/Oblivion/Abraxas/Galactus without the nullifier- multi-versal abstracts. Infinity/Mistress Death- Meh Phoenix Force- She isn't the fifth most powerful. That is wrong on so many levels.
The rest...
Now, I'm not sure where I should put the Infinites or Alien Entity, or Sise-Neg, so yea.
Now, I'm not sure where I should put the Infinites or Alien Entity, or Sise-Neg, so yea. "
Sise-Neg remade all of Marvel in 1974 and became the supreme being. Although, Marvel at the time was a single universe it's not Sise-Neg's fault. He'd have done the same thing in current Marvel, since he had the power to travel across timelines. In any case, he was supreme. Alien Entity re-initiated the original Big Bang to recreate Marvel, and then merged with the big bang. What the AE did is uber but it's not the primary reason for placing it so high, the reason behind it's status is the fact that the AE merged with the Fires of Creation itself, making it the embodiment of the Big Bang, and thus the power behind all Marvelverse's existence. .
I'd put the Infinites above Eternity/Infinity/Death/Oblivion, but under Abraxas.
" I wanted to get opinions on the strongest ever marvel characters. For me it would go: 1)Pre Retcon Beyonder 2)The One Above All 3) Pre Retcon Molecule Man 4) Living Tribunal 5) Full Power Phoenix Is this correct? "
no toaa is always first no matter what, he is the one who retconned beyonder in the first place so he is more powerful.
1.Toaa 2.Pre Retcon Beyonder/Thanos With Hotu 3. Molecule Man 4. Living Tribunal 6. Multi-Eternity 7. Full Pheonix Force
@"Colossus": Don't forget Mr Master's lessons big-c. @A Touch of Class (ATC): Yea, what I wasn't sure of was whether AE or/and Genesis recreated ONE universe or more than one universe. In Fantastic Four 531-532, I don't think there was any mention of the AE creating more than universe, but I might be mistaken.
" TOAA - the writer Pre-Ret Beyonder, he was RETCONED by Jim Shooter, TOAA at the time. But was stated to be millions of times more powerful than the multi-verse. AND Thanos with the heart of the infinite.The Infinity Being/The Nemesis- Created everything including the LT Pre-Ret Molecule Man, casually created a barrier stronger than the multi-verseProtege, casually WTFpwned the omniverse, LT included. Living Tribunal, self explanatory The Infinity Gauntlet, self explanatory again. Mad Jim Jaspers, even Merlyn with the Matrix admitted that he was not enough to defeat him.Merlyn with the Energy Matrix, an omniversal power pretty much.Galactus with the Ultimate Nullifier, can easily do what the Anti-Monitor/Abraxas were trying to do .Eternity/Oblivion/Abraxas/Galactus without the nullifier- multi-versal abstracts. Infinity/Mistress Death- Meh Phoenix Force- She isn't the fifth most powerful. That is wrong on so many levels. The rest... Now, I'm not sure where I should put the Infinites or Alien Entity, or Sise-Neg, so yea. "
TOAA is not the writer(s), TOAA is a character, It was a joke when Stan Lee was compared to being TOAA of Marvel.
NO pre-retcon beyonder is #1, don't say nonsense of TOAA=writers, even if he is some how supposed to represent the writers, TOAA is a fictional character who appeared on panel, he is omni of marvel muliverse, beyonder is omni of beyondverse. Beyonder= 1000x as powerful as all marvel multi verse including TOAA
" Toaa>>>>>Pre retcon beyonder toaa already retconned him and made it so that every thing he did was just a dream and beyonder couldt do squat about it! "
TOAA did not retcon the Beyonder, because TOAA does not equal Marvel writers.
PRE retcon beyonder was superior to TOAA. The writers retconed beyonder not TOAA who is a fictional character. TOAA omni of mavrel multiverse Beyonder has the power of all the marvel multiverse (including TOAA) x1000
" Toaa>>>>>Pre retcon beyonder toaa already retconned him and made it so that every thing he did was just a dream and beyonder couldt do squat about it! "
TOAA did not retcon the Beyonder, because TOAA does not equal Marvel writers. "
actually, thats exactly what toaa is, the writers/editors. every one knows this
" Toaa>>>>>Pre retcon beyonder toaa already retconned him and made it so that every thing he did was just a dream and beyonder couldt do squat about it! "
TOAA did not retcon the Beyonder, because TOAA does not equal Marvel writers. "
actually, thats exactly what toaa is, the writers/editors. every one knows this "
Tier 2: 1. Pre-Retcon Beyonder 2. Pre-Retcon Molecule Man
Tier 3: The Living Tribunal
Tier 4: (no particular order) The Alien Entity Genesis HOM Wanda (Full control) Meggan (Full potential) Merlyn (Matrix empowered) Cap Brit. with the Sword of Might & Amulet of Right Havok (Merged with the Nexus of Realities) 616 Jaspers merged with Fury Infinity Gauntlet Jamie Braddock Beyonders
Tier 5: Celestial Nullifier Ultimate Nullifier
Tier 6: 1.Abraxas 2. Post-Retcon Molecule Man (Owen Reece's alter ego)
Tier 7: 1. Entropy 2. Multi-Eternity/Infinity 3. Multi-Death (I never seen anything to hint at the existence of a multi-Oblivion)
Tier 8: (no particular order) 1. The Infinites 2. The Cosmic Containment Units 3. The Makers 4. Atleza 5. Galactus Insatiable (only seen once) ... Potentially Higher ... 6. Genis-vell Full potential (seen during HOM)
Tier 9: 1. 616 Eternity/Infinity/Oblivion 2. The Phoenix Force/WPOTC 3. Korvac (empowered by Galactus' World Ship) 4. 616 (Death - Lord Chaos & Master Order) 5. Rest of the Abstracts
Tier 10: (alternate and divergent Universes) 1. ALL Other Eternity/Infinity's 2. ALL Other (Death - Lord Chaos & Master Order) 3. rest of the Abstracts
@A Touch of Class (ATC): Abraxas should be above Oblivion(move Oblivion down), Oblivion should be in the same tier as Eternity/Infinity. Insatiable Galactus should also be in Abraxas' tier. Ultimate Nullifier should be in MJJ's tier.
" How about Sise-neg who was dubbed as omnipotent? "
I listed Sise-Neg under the name "Genesis" as that is what he called himself when he had absorbed everything.
@RiseofApocalypse
said:
"
@A Touch of Class (ATC): Abraxas should be above Oblivion(move Oblivion down), Oblivion should be in the same tier as Eternity/Infinity. Insatiable Galactus should also be in Abraxas' tier. Ultimate Nullifier should be in MJJ's tier.
"
Ah, you're right. I accidentally mixed them up when I was writing my list down. Of course I know that Abraxas is greater than Oblivion. Abraxas is in his place underneath the Ultimate Nullifier, though. After all, he was afraid of it being used on him.
However, I don't have the Ultimate Nullifier in the same tier as the Infinity Gauntlet. That wasn't a mistake and I'll explain my reasoning behind it. :)
The Ultimate Nullifier has been called by Reed Richards the "most powerful weapon known." The IG makes the wielder "God" of all reality according to Reed Richards and a host of others & the writer. It was also stated on panel and by the writer himself in a Marvel Ager interview. And there's only one being besides TOAA above "God" ... and that's the LT. The Infinity Gauntlet performed a Multiversal feat by defeating 616 Eternity, which is the base of all power across Time of all Universes. Worlds within Worlds, Dimensions folding into themselves,Entire UniverseS being born, and collapsing into ruin,and yet I sense that ALL this -- is but a fraction of what Eternity is, the core, the Heart of Eternity's being ... here All Energy, All Matter, lies, I will detonate Eternity's Heart --- triggering another Creation event,Re-Birthing every being and thing in All the UniverseS"
The Ultimate Nullifier remade the Multiverse. The Infinity Gauntlet stomped the power of all UniverseS across Time. (besides needing the LT himself to interfere with the IG by the end of Infinity War, the order came from TOAA itself to restrict the IG from being used again) The Infinity Gauntlet makes its wielder God beneath a power comparable or beneath the LT. This is what we get when we combine all the facts. (no matter what took place during the Quasar incident. IG >>> UN any day, all day). An incomplete Infinity Gauntlet turned back its energies upon its wielder. Wielders of the IG vary in what they can achieve according to will.But the UN works differently. It uses energies that emit from its tip, and there's no proof that those energies come at different levels of destructivity or even creativity, it's always a white sphere that can at-least erase and recreate reality to its normal state. As such the incomplete Infinity Gauntlet controlled those energies. This shows an complete Infinity Gauntlet in the right hands would always be the ultimate weapon of the two. The Infinity Gauntlet defeated in one move an entity that holds entire Universes in one hand, an entity that is the embodiment of all things on all planes of existence, an entity that sunders and re-creates Universes all day, the entity that can re-birth all Universes. The Infinity Gauntlet is the Infinity Being's power, and the Infinity Being is the reason there even is an Ultimate Nullfier and even an omniverse because it was the Infinity Being that created everything. As such, the Infinity Gauntlet's power (in the right hands) can do all this.
" My Marvel Tier List 1. Storm at full power2. Evil Storm ( Roguestorm, the evil entity of Storm)3. Storm at half power 4. Storm at 1/1000000th power5. One Above All 6. Pre Retcon Beyonder 7 The Over-Monitor/ Over-Mind/ Overvoid 8. The Presence 9. Thanos with the Heart of the Universe 10. Meshta "
I'm suprised you didn't put Bloodstorm on your list from the comic Mutant X A powerful mutant with supernatural abilities just sounds over-powering to me.....
" My Marvel Tier List 1. Storm at full power2. Evil Storm ( Roguestorm, the evil entity of Storm)3. Storm at half power 4. Storm at 1/1000000th power5. One Above All 6. Pre Retcon Beyonder 7 The Over-Monitor/ Over-Mind/ Overvoid 8. The Presence 9. Thanos with the Heart of the Universe 10. Meshta "
I'm suprised you didn't put Bloodstorm on your list from the comic Mutant X A powerful mutant with supernatural abilities just sounds over-powering to me..... "
lol.",) I even forgot to include Storm at puberty. hehehe. Joke!",)
@A Touch of Class (ATC) said:
" @rbysjti said:
" How about Sise-neg who was dubbed as omnipotent? "
I listed Sise-Neg under the name "Genesis" as that is what he called himself when he had absorbed everything.
@RiseofApocalypse
said:
"
@A Touch of Class (ATC): Abraxas should be above Oblivion(move Oblivion down), Oblivion should be in the same tier as Eternity/Infinity. Insatiable Galactus should also be in Abraxas' tier. Ultimate Nullifier should be in MJJ's tier.
"
Ah, you're right. I accidentally mixed them up when I was writing my list down. Of course I know that Abraxas is greater than Oblivion. Abraxas is in his place underneath the Ultimate Nullifier, though. After all, he was afraid of it being used on him.
However, I don't have the Ultimate Nullifier in the same tier as the Infinity Gauntlet. That wasn't a mistake and I'll explain my reasoning behind it. :)
The Ultimate Nullifier has been called by Reed Richards the "most powerful weapon known." The IG makes the wielder "God" of all reality according to Reed Richards and a host of others & the writer. It was also stated on panel and by the writer himself in a Marvel Ager interview. And there's only one being besides TOAA above "God" ... and that's the LT. The Infinity Gauntlet performed a Multiversal feat by defeating 616 Eternity, which is the base of all power across Time of all Universes. Wolds within Worlds, Dimensions folding into themselves,Entire UniverseS being born, and collapsing into ruin,and yet I sense that ALL this -- is but a fraction of what Eternity is, the core, the Heart of Eternity's being ... here All Energy, All Matter, lies, I will detonate Eternity's Heart --- triggering another Creation event,Re-Birthing every being and thing in All the UniverseS" The Ultimate Nullifier remade the Multiverse. The Infinity Gauntlet stomped the power of all UniverseS across Time. (besides needing the LT himself to interfere with the IG by the end of Infinity War, the order came from TOAA itself to restrict the IG from being used again) The Infinity Gauntlet makes its wielder God beneath a power comparable or beneath the LT. This is what we get when we combine all the facts. (no matter what took place during the Quasar incident. IG >>> UN any day, all day). An incomplete Infinity Gauntlet turned back its energies upon its wielder. Wielders of the IG vary in what they can achieve according to will.But the UN works differently. It uses energies that emit from its tip, and there's no proof that those energies come at different levels of destructivity or even creativity, it's always a white sphere that can at-least erase and recreate reality to its normal state. As such the incomplete Infinity Gauntlet controlled those energies. This shows an complete Infinity Gauntlet in the right hands would always be the ultimate weapon of the two. The Infinity Gauntlet defeated in one move an entity that holds entire Universes in one hand, an entity that is the embodiment of all things on all planes of existence, an entity that sunders and re-creates Universes all day, the entity that can re-birth all Universes. The Infinity Gauntlet is the Infinity Being's power, and the Infinity Being is the reason there even is an Ultimate Nullfier and even an omniverse because it was the Infinity Being that created everything. As such, the Infinity Gauntlet's power (in the right hands) can do all this. "
Wow! Just wow!",)
So Sise-neg can be called as Genesis. Ok. Anyway, i have read something about Sise-neg and the way he was described seeme to sound like more powerful than TOAA. That's why i wanted to know where you're (and other viners) going to place him.
What if Pre-retcon beyonder and Pre-retcon Molecule Man work together, can they beat TOAA? I'm just wondering cos sometimes, a character gets more stronger if two characters are fused into one or if the character has the infinity gauntlet, nullifier, etc. To answer all my questions. If all the marvel characters are fused into one being, could that one being beat TOAA?
Ah, you're right. I accidentally mixed them up when I was writing my list down. Of course I know that Abraxas is greater than Oblivion. Abraxas is in his place underneath the Ultimate Nullifier, though. After all, he was afraid of it being used on him.
However, I don't have the Ultimate Nullifier in the same tier as the Infinity Gauntlet. That wasn't a mistake and I'll explain my reasoning behind it. :)
The Ultimate Nullifier has been called by Reed Richards the "most powerful weapon known." The IG makes the wielder "God" of all reality according to Reed Richards and a host of others & the writer. It was also stated on panel and by the writer himself in a Marvel Ager interview. And there's only one being besides TOAA above "God" ... and that's the LT. The Infinity Gauntlet performed a Multiversal feat by defeating 616 Eternity, which is the base of all power across Time of all Universes.
Worlds within Worlds, Dimensions folding into themselves,Entire UniverseS being born, and collapsing into ruin,and yet I sense that ALL this -- is but a fraction of what Eternity is, the core, the Heart of Eternity's being ... here All Energy, All Matter, lies, I will detonate Eternity's Heart --- triggering another Creation event,Re-Birthing every being and thing in All the UniverseS" The Ultimate Nullifier remade the Multiverse. The Infinity Gauntlet stomped the power of all UniverseS across Time. (besides needing the LT himself to interfere with the IG by the end of Infinity War, the order came from TOAA itself to restrict the IG from being used again) The Infinity Gauntlet makes its wielder God beneath a power comparable or beneath the LT. This is what we get when we combine all the facts. (no matter what took place during the Quasar incident. IG >>> UN any day, all day). An incomplete Infinity Gauntlet turned back its energies upon its wielder. Wielders of the IG vary in what they can achieve according to will.But the UN works differently. It uses energies that emit from its tip, and there's no proof that those energies come at different levels of destructivity or even creativity, it's always a white sphere that can at-least erase and recreate reality to its normal state. As such the incomplete Infinity Gauntlet controlled those energies. This shows an complete Infinity Gauntlet in the right hands would always be the ultimate weapon of the two. The Infinity Gauntlet defeated in one move an entity that holds entire Universes in one hand, an entity that is the embodiment of all things on all planes of existence, an entity that sunders and re-creates Universes all day,the entity that can re-birth all Universes. The Infinity Gauntlet is the Infinity Being's power, and the Infinity Being is the reason there even is an Ultimate Nullfier and even an omniverse because it was the Infinity Being that created everything. As such, the Infinity Gauntlet's power (in the right hands) can do all this. "
I thought you were one of the people that think extremely high of Oblivion because of how Maelstrom performed against Thanos while Thanos held the IG. Good to know you're not one of them :)
I know that the Infinity Gauntlet is more powerful than the Ultimate Nullifier, but that instance in Infinity Wars that you are reffering to hardly holds any weight as the UN wielder was full of doubt and barely had any confidence in himself and his intellect. It is in the Ultimate Nullifier' official bio that the weapon would perform better if the person that is wielding it has high confidence, intelligence and sheer power. It is true that Quasar is more powerful than Reed Richards, but when Reed blasted Abraxas with the UN, he had full confidence in himself and his intellect, which is why the ENTIRE MULTI-VERSE was nullified and restarted.
I have no problem with the Celestial Nullifier but I think that the most devastating weapon in the universe should be a tier above it.
Also, insatiable Galactus should IMO be in Abraxas' tier. My line of reasoning behind that is that Galactus in Fantastic Four 338-341(Black Celestial Arc) was eating the fabric of time and space untill that universe and everything beyond it would have been devoured.
Here's mine 1.The One Above All and Pre Retcon Beyonder 2.Thanos/Hotu 3.Pr Molecule Man 4.Lt(maybe protege ,but he got owned by a celestial passing judgment lol.)
" yeah.. more or less.. but I'll still place TOAA above everyone else.. this is due to the fact that no one is more powerful than the Almighty God the Creator himself.. "
Living Tribune (pre retcon)Beyonder Death Oblivion Eternity Infinity
Cosmic Tier-
Galactus Master order Lord Chaos Aegis Tenebrous Stranger Eon Shaper of Worlds
Lower cosmic tier-
Odin Tyrant Inbetweener Champion Grand Master Collecter
Borderline/Super high tier-
Beta Ray Bill Mangog Kurse Thor Zemo-w/ moonstones Genis The Destroyer Doc Strange Mephisto Blackheart Adam Warlock Loki Surfer Stardust
High tier- Hulk Juggernaught Galadiator Apocolypes X-man (none Shaman) Cable (with TO Virus) Prince Nemor Black Bolt
Abomination Absorbing man Air Walker-Herald Apocalypse Cable Doc Doom Emma Frost Exodus Firelord Gladiator Hyperion Hercules Ironman Jack of Hearts Juggernaut Magneto Temugin-son of the Mandarin-maybe high mid tier Namor Polaris Jean Grey Professor X Sasquatch Scarlett Witch-pre insane She Hulk Storm Super Skull Thing Terrax Vision Morg
Medium tier-
Spiderman Maverick/Agent Zero Marvel Boy aka Noh-Varr Beat Rogue Nocturne Bishop Blink Cyclops Havok Venom Carnage Canonball Wolverine Deadpool Deathlok Normal Electro Gambit Ghost Rider Green Goblin Longshot Lizard Morph(eXiles) Nightcrawler Omega Red Pyro Quicksilver Sabretooth USAgent Molten man Tombstone Multiple man
Low tier-
Cat Punisher Kingpin Red Skull Winter Soldier/Bucky Cap Bullseye Daredevil Black Panther Hawkeye Blackcat Toad Nick Fury Ka-zar Beak
Log in to comment