#1 Posted by Esquire (3833 posts) - - Show Bio
#2 Posted by jeanroygrant (20191 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll start. To be honest, I know nothing on Pied Piper, except that he is argurably the strongest Rogue. I am fairly knowledge on the rest of them though. I know you probably looked at my Team, and said LOL, why did he choose those characters, but I chose them all for a reason. So, now that, that's out of the way, lets begin.

Okay to start things off I will have Thor Deal with Weather Wizard, since this guy is strong enough to put tornado's in your belly. Judging by Thor's durability, and level of control over the weather. Thor shouldn't even be fazedby such an attack. Since Weather Wizard's mostly relies on weather attacks. He's quite useless against Thor. All Thor would have to do is throw Mjolnir at FTL speeds, and decapitate Weather Wizard.

Since Captain Cold uses a "Cold Field" that slows anything down in it's tracks, what's stopping Vision from phasing himself under the ground, to where the cold field is, and phasing back, under, than phasing his hand through Captain Cold's head, killing him? Last time i checked Rogues,didn't have no sort of special durabilty.

Magneto fighting Mirror Master is going to be as fast as Thor fighting Weather Wizard. Once Magneto see's the metal gun Mirror Master has in his hand, he's going to dismantle it easily. What is Mirror Master going to do without the item that gives him all is powers? Magneto than takes the metal left from the dismantle gun, and sends it all into Mirror Masters face, killing him. What a way to die from your own weapon.

The Top is probably the fastest rogue from what i've seen, but Loki is no slouch in the speed department.

Loki has sped from space to earth in no time while running from te Silver Surfer.

Loki is going to catch him sooner or later with a spell. Loki will confuse him with illusions like he does to most enemies. Than he will suprise him with a faster than thought spell. Yes Loki can cast spells faster tan thought.

That is it for now. I know nothing of Pied Piper.So engliten me please.

#3 Posted by Esquire (3833 posts) - - Show Bio

@jeanroygrant said:

Okay to start things off I will have Thor Deal with Weather Wizard, since this guy is strong enough to put tornado's in your belly. Judging by Thor's durability, and level of control over the weather. Thor shouldn't even be fazedby such an attack. Since Weather Wizard's mostly relies on weather attacks. He's quite useless against Thor.

Got any good weather-manipulation feats for Thor? I'd also like to see electricity resistance and heat resistance durability feats, if you've got them. Weather Wizard is an extremely potent weather manipulator, and he packs enough power in his lighting to one-shot another weather manipulator. He can summon lethal amounts of heat, tornadoes so strong that they suck in the Flash, and he has the reflexes to fight Wally. Thor will certainly not be outreacting him.

All Thor would have to do is throw Mjolnir at FTL speeds, and decapitate Weather Wizard.

Has Thor thrown his hammer FTL in the last couple of decades? There's been something of an implied Retcon in the Marvel Universe regarding FTL. Before the 90s, characters such as Silver Surfer and Nova flew FTL without any issue. But since the early 90s, there haven't been instances of them doing so without the use of Hyperspace. I know that in Fraction's run on Thor, Mjolnir had to use a dimensional portal to return to Thor at one point because of the distance separating them, so are you certain that Mjolnir can still travel at FTL speed without using hyperspace?

Since Captain Cold uses a "Cold Field" that slows anything down in it's tracks, what's stopping Vision from phasing himself under the ground, to where the cold field is, and phasing back, under, than phasing his hand through Captain Cold's head, killing him? Last time i checked Rogues,didn't have no sort of special durabilty.

The fact that it's a field of Absolute Zero. Vision goes intangible by altering his density, so his molecules are still in the same dimension and all that. As such, he'll be stopped cold by the field, intangible or not. As you can see, when the wires get close to Cold, his field freezes them in place. So once Vision gets close to him, the absolute zero effect will stop him in his tracks.

Magneto fighting Mirror Master is going to be as fast as Thor fighting Weather Wizard. Once Magneto see's the metal gun Mirror Master has in his hand, he's going to dismantle it easily. What is Mirror Master going to do without the item that gives him all is powers? Magneto than takes the metal left from the dismantle gun, and sends it all into Mirror Masters face, killing him. What a way to die from your own weapon.

There is absolutely no way Magneto can outreact Mirror Master. Magneto has gotten blitzed by Quicksilver, whereas Mirror Master spends his time reacting to Flash. He's jumped into a mirror faster than Flash could blink, even. The instant the match starts, Mirror Master will enter the reflective surface that is Magneto's eyes, blinding him. He'll start spamming duplicates from the windows of the town, and Magneto will be unable to manipulate them since they're made of glass. The real MM will place duplicate reflections in Magneto's eyes and move to a window, and then the dupes will transmute Mags to glass, since I don't know of him having any transmutation resistance.

The Top is probably the fastest rogue from what i've seen, but Loki is no slouch in the speed department. Loki has sped from space to earth in no time while running from te Silver Surfer. Loki is going to catch him sooner or later with a spell. Loki will confuse him with illusions like he does to most enemies. Than he will suprise him with a faster than thought spell. Yes Loki can cast spells faster tan thought.

The Top is indeed very fast. He's been able to dodge and blitz the Flash, even.

He's extremely versatile, though, with powers ranging from telepathy and telekinesis to gadget tops with all sorts of wacky powers. His greatest asset, however, is his ability to cause disorientation and nausea.

He can do this to all of your team members, which will cause them to be far less effective. Loki will have a hard time concentrating on casting spells when he's vomiting uncontrollably, and Top's tops will only help him distract Loki even more.

So your team will have trouble concentrating on the fight at hand, since they can't see straight, are vomiting uncontrollably, and are even more disoriented by Mirror Master and Top's duplicates.

That is it for now. I know nothing of Pied Piper.So engliten me please.

Pied Piper has a piece of the Anti-Life Equation inside of him, which allows him to channel the Omega Effect. This allows for all sorts of fun abilities, such as invisibility:

Since your team can be made totally unaware of mine, thanks to Piper, they will be helpless against whatever attacks the Rogues use against them.

#4 Posted by jeanroygrant (20191 posts) - - Show Bio
  1. Weather Wizard is not on Thor's level in weather manipulation. Not even close. When Weather Wizard has the power to summon a storm as powerful as winds from 1000 worlds to hurt a being named Glory, that's skyfather level, and said by the writer to be as strong as a pissed off Odin. So, no. Weather Wizard goes down fast, and hard.

This is how big Glory is..

2. Mjolnir can travel twice the speed of light

3.Since Thor will be finished with Weather Wizard rather quicky, why doesn't he help Vision with Captain Cold. All he has to do is throw Mjolnir twice the speed of light, which Captain Cold can't dodge, and Mjolnir can just go through the Cold Field

4.How fast was Wally moving, when MM tagged him. For all I know he could have been moving slower than Quicksilver. My arguement stands the same, until that is cleared up.

5.Lol, I just realized something. All the rogues don't have durability to stand up to there oponents. Taking hits from Wally is nothing. Wally has no like what, 1 ton of strength? And his durabilty is poor. Unless they have survived an IMP from Wally, there not going to survive 1 moral off hit from anyone on my team. Rogues are also not even half a ton in strength, except for a Rogue member that's not on your current team. Forgot his name, but he's a 70 tonner I think. Even if Loki can't tag Top, he will sooner or later. Also, when Top tries to speed blitz Loki, there's going to be some lauging from Loki, when he see's this speedster dancing around him, punching him to no effect, and I know your going to say 'he'll cause Loki to vomit". No, Loki is a powerful spellcaster, he will cast spells to confuse Top. Like duplicates, and Loki has amped his strength to match Thor's before. So, once Loki hit's the ground a earthquakewill happen sending Top into the sky, where Loki proceeds to turn him into a from, like he has done Thor in the past.

6.As powerful as Pied Piper seems. If Thor makes a poweful storm with wind. The location of Pied Piper will surface, and than he will get gangbanged. Not even going to have to explain this.

Your turn !

#5 Posted by Esquire (3833 posts) - - Show Bio

@jeanroygrant said:

  1. Weather Wizard is not on Thor's level in weather manipulation. Not even close. When Weather Wizard has the power to summon a storm as powerful as winds from 1000 worlds to hurt a being named Glory, that's skyfather level, and said by the writer to be as strong as a pissed off Odin. So, no. Weather Wizard goes down fast, and hard.

I acknowledge that, in sheer power, he cannot compete. He does, however, have impressive versatility and packs a solid punch. The big problem with your strategy is that you're treating this as a series of 1-vs-1 battles, which it isn't. Most of the Rogues can be effective against more than one opponent at a time, and their combined efforts will be far more effective than they would be alone. Thor may have better storm-creation feats, but this isn't normal Thor. This is blinded nauseous Thor, and thanks to Piper, he doesn't even know that my team is there. Mirror Master can make so many functioning duplicates that he can swarm your whole team with transmuting attacks while staying concealed and undetected in a reflective surface. Captain Cold is fast enough to outdraw and shoot several of your team members before any of them even move. Piper can use the Omega Effect to freeze an opponent in place. He was able to do it to Kid Zoom, a lightspeeder, so he should have no trouble doing it to your team. Weather Wizard can create tornadoes inside of them, smother them with lethal levels of heat, strike them with lightning, disarm them with wind, and even more. Although Thor could counteract some of this, he'll be attacked from all fronts as it is, without trying to diffuse WW's attacks.

2. Mjolnir can travel twice the speed of light

But when was the last time Thor threw it at such speeds? I asked you in my earlier post and you didn't answer. Although I'm no Thor expert, I have neither read not seen scans of him throwing it at anywhere near that velocity in the last couple of decades. Since the fight is in-character, I'm skeptical that he'd do so here. And everything from AvX should be taken with a pretty large grain of salt, anyway.

3.Since Thor will be finished with Weather Wizard rather quicky, why doesn't he help Vision with Captain Cold. All he has to do is throw Mjolnir twice the speed of light, which Captain Cold can't dodge, and Mjolnir can just go through the Cold Field

Cold will be able to draw his gun and blast Thor long before he's even started to attack Weather Wizard. How effective is Thor against Absolute Zero? Cold has outdrawn a blitzing Kid Flash. He threatens a mobster, saying he can draw and shoot twelve men before a single one of them can pull the trigger, even though they've already drawn their weapons. And they know it's true, so they let him go.

He has the draw speed to shoot everyone on your team before they can react, and his Cold Gun has the power to do a lot of damage when he does. (The only possible exception is Vulcan. I'm not familiar with his combat speed.)

4.How fast was Wally moving, when MM tagged him. For all I know he could have been moving slower than Quicksilver. My arguement stands the same, until that is cleared up.

I'm not sure I understand your question. Mirror Master has been tangling with Flash for his entire career. He's been moving at lots of different speeds. And none of your characters are even as fast as Quicksilver in combat speed, so Mirror Master tagging Flash at Quicksilver speeds would still put him above Magneto, who wasn't even aware of Quicksilver until he got punched. And Mirror Master has jumped into a mirror faster than Flash could intercept him, so he'll be long gone before Magneto can try to attack him. Then it's up to his glass doppledangers and holograms, which aren't magnetic.

5.Lol, I just realized something. All the rogues don't have durability to stand up to there oponents. Taking hits from Wally is nothing. Wally has no like what, 1 ton of strength? Unless they have survived an IMP from Wally, there not going to survive 1 moral off hit from anyone on my team.

It's not like they've only fought the Flash. They've fought Superman, Martian Manhunter, Superboy, Black Lanterns, etc. And they don't need durability here. Nobody will be hitting them. They'll be undetected thanks to Piper, their opponents will be blind thanks to Mirror Master, they'll be able to hide among swarms of Mirror Master's duplicates, and they all have the reflexes to attack first, anyway.

And his durabilty is poor.

It's really not, but that's a discussion for another thread.

Rogues are also not even half a ton in strength, except for a Rogue member that's not on your current team. Forgot his name, but he's a 70 tonner I think.

Gorilla Grodd, maybe? And their lack of physical lifting power is irrelevant. They all have attacks potent enough to hurt your team. Just because they don't beat their foes over the head with large hammers doesn't mean they aren't effective.

Even if Loki can't tag Top, he will sooner or later.

That...makes no sense. If he's not as fast as Top, can't see straight thanks to Top's disorientation, is nauseous and off-balance because of Top's power, is getting thrown around by Top's TK, and is even more disoriented and confused by Top's tops, how is he going to tag him, ever? And that's not even taking into account the rest of my team helping him out.

Also, when Top tries to speed blitz Loki, there's going to be some lauging from Loki, when he see's this speedster dancing around him, punching him to no effect,

Top isn't an idiot. He may try blitzing, but if it doesn't work he'll use a different tactic.

and I know your going to say 'he'll cause Loki to vomit". No, Loki is a powerful spellcaster, he will cast spells to confuse Top.

The second part of your sentence does nothing to validate the first part. How does being a spellcaster make him resistant to Top's abilities? And Deathstroke was able to render Zatanna, another powerful spellcaster, ineffective by causing her to vomit. So wouldn't his constant vomiting make it hard for Loki to compete to his fullest?

Like duplicates, and Loki has amped his strength to match Thor's before. So, once Loki hit's the ground a earthquakewill happen sending Top into the sky, where Loki proceeds to turn him into a from, like he has done Thor in the past.

Top can also make duplicates, he can easily get out of range of Loki's groundquake using his speed, and he can also run on walls to avoid it.

6.As powerful as Pied Piper seems. If Thor makes a poweful storm with wind. The location of Pied Piper will surface, and than he will get gangbanged. Not even going to have to explain this.

How will he do this when he's getting transmuted by Mirror Master's copies, has a tornado and extreme heat tearing his insides apart thanks to Weather Wizard, has gotten frozen solid by Captain Cold, is blind and vomiting thanks to Mirror Master and Top, and is also frozen in place by Piper? And Weather Wizard could use his powers to weaken the storm or Mirror Master could hide Piper in a mirror dimension until the storm dissipates.

#6 Posted by Esquire (3833 posts) - - Show Bio

Are we done here? I'm game for voting if you have nothing more to add.

#7 Posted by iamthewolf88 (346 posts) - - Show Bio

Can't Pied Piper also make peoples heads explode? and anything for that matter, I'm not too familiar, but from what I remember, he has a frequency to destroy most anything... Especially having the power of the Anti-Life Equation. Not to mention, I don't think anyone can survive Absolute Zero. Realistically.

#8 Posted by New_World_Order (13327 posts) - - Show Bio

@Esquire said:

Are we done here? I'm game for voting if you have nothing more to add.

Okay, vote.

#9 Posted by Esquire (3833 posts) - - Show Bio

@iamthewolf88:

#10 Posted by Esquire (3833 posts) - - Show Bio

#11 Posted by iamthewolf88 (346 posts) - - Show Bio

@Esquire: nice

#12 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@Esquire: I personnely think the Marvel Team should win in a common Battle Thread, however you debated as to why Rogues would much better in this CaV.

#13 Edited by Sovereign91001 (4729 posts) - - Show Bio

@Esquire: gets my vote.

#14 Posted by boschePG (2484 posts) - - Show Bio

Esquire is a GREAT debater, especially when it comes to his Rogues. Pound for pound, one on one, the Marvel team is more powerful on sheer might, but then again, its a team thing. More thought. Its why Reed Richards has been able to best Galactus numerous times. It isnt power all the time. Its thinking and team work Esqurie wins

#15 Posted by dondave (38636 posts) - - Show Bio

gets my vote

#16 Posted by TheTmac (472 posts) - - Show Bio

@Esquire: Nice job you get my vote.