#1 Edited by k4tzm4n (45986 posts) - - Show Bio
  • The Mandarin
  • Captain America
  • Black Widow

vs.

  • Wolverine
  • Blade
  • Punisher

Location

The ship in Iron Man 3's finale. Begin 30 feet apart, visible but near cover.

Rules

  • Random encounter.
  • Standard gear.
  • In character.
  • Standard elimination rules apply.

Staff
#2 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

Aww, you didn't use Blade for the second team :(

Personally, I think Team One would take the win, but by a slight majority. In terms of physical stats, Cap and Daredevil are relatively the same from what we've seen in the movies, but Cap's shield will be the deciding factor as he'll easily defend against Matt's batons and be fully capable of countering. Although, Daredevil did show superior reaction time by defending against the shards of glass thrown by Bullseye and that was AFTER he was stabbed by Elektra.

I might be alone on this but I think Frank may be able to take down Natasha due to the weaponry at his disposal. The starting distance is more than enough for Frank to get a lock on her and keep shots while she's in cover, if she makes it there. Although, if it becomes a hand-to-hand battle, Natasha should win.

Killian vs Logan? I don't see any possible way for Logan taking down Killian but Logan was knocked out by Victor who seems to possess far less strength than Killian does, who was ripping apart the various Iron Man armour with ease.

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#3 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

Y NO ONE RESPOND!?

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#4 Edited by k4tzm4n (45986 posts) - - Show Bio

@deranged_midget said:

Aww, you didn't use Blade for the second team :(

Personally, I think Team One would take the win, but by a slight majority. In terms of physical stats, Cap and Daredevil are relatively the same from what we've seen in the movies, but Cap's shield will be the deciding factor as he'll easily defend against Matt's batons and be fully capable of countering. Although, Daredevil did show superior reaction time by defending against the shards of glass thrown by Bullseye and that was AFTER he was stabbed by Elektra.

I might be alone on this but I think Frank may be able to take down Natasha due to the weaponry at his disposal. The starting distance is more than enough for Frank to get a lock on her and keep shots while she's in cover, if she makes it there. Although, if it becomes a hand-to-hand battle, Natasha should win.

Killian vs Logan? I don't see any possible way for Logan taking down Killian but Logan was knocked out by Victor who seems to possess far less strength than Killian does, who was ripping apart the various Iron Man armour with ease.

Truthfully, I think adding Blade on team 2 would make slightly unfair. The combination of his stats and skill with a blade are quite impressive, especially when taking into account the team already has Logan.

As for Killian vs. Logan, he was basically rendered ineffective (for the time being) when Tony chopped off the lower part of his arm. I think stab wounds to non-critical areas won't faze him all that much (the gut, for example), but slashing limbs off could really turn the tide in his favor. It's just a matter of whether he can do so before getting his lights knocked out. That said, how do you think this would go down if they paired off differently?

Staff
#5 Posted by rolldestroyer (3508 posts) - - Show Bio

i fail to see why mandrin can't solo here.

#6 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n said:

As for Killian vs. Logan, he was basically rendered ineffective (for the time being) when Tony chopped off the lower part of his arm. I think stab wounds to non-critical areas won't faze him all that much (the gut, for example), but slashing limbs off could really turn the tide in his favor. It's just a matter of whether he can do so before getting his lights knocked out. That said, how do you think this would go down if they paired off differently?

Hmm, I guess so but it was a little inconsistent if you ask me. He was regenerating his arm rather quickly and only had his arm chopped off by complete surprise. I feel that Logan may not get the the chance to replicate that action as Killian is just as, if not faster than him and a huge degree stronger.

If they paired off differently? Hmm, I feel that Cap has what it takes to knock out Logan(without Adamantium) considering that Victor could do it, albeit after a vicious beating. Natasha would lose to Daredevil and from what we see, bullets and explosion were of no help against Killian. I mean, he did survive that internal armour explosion but he was sluggish for a bit afterwards. I'm curious if he was hit a few more times if he would finally be put down.

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#7 Edited by k4tzm4n (45986 posts) - - Show Bio

@deranged_midget said:

@k4tzm4n said:

As for Killian vs. Logan, he was basically rendered ineffective (for the time being) when Tony chopped off the lower part of his arm. I think stab wounds to non-critical areas won't faze him all that much (the gut, for example), but slashing limbs off could really turn the tide in his favor. It's just a matter of whether he can do so before getting his lights knocked out. That said, how do you think this would go down if they paired off differently?

Hmm, I guess so but it was a little inconsistent if you ask me. He was regenerating his arm rather quickly and only had his arm chopped off by complete surprise. I feel that Logan may not get the the chance to replicate that action as Killian is just as, if not faster than him and a huge degree stronger.

If they paired off differently? Hmm, I feel that Cap has what it takes to knock out Logan(without Adamantium) considering that Victor could do it, albeit after a vicious beating. Natasha would lose to Daredevil and from what we see, bullets and explosion were of no help against Killian. I mean, he did survive that internal armour explosion but he was sluggish for a bit afterwards. I'm curious if he was hit a few more times if he would finally be put down.

Quickly, sure, but the attack still left him vulnerable. While he can heal from pretty much anything, it's clear he was by no means immune to pain when struck. While Killian did dominate most of the fight, there was still a portion where Tony took the upper hand -- albeit briefly. Given the same opportunity, I imagine Logan's use of claws would be more successful in hindering Killian than Tony's blunt force was. I can't help but wonder how a stab to the chest would impact him, too.

But Logan does have adamantium in this match, good sir! As for surviving the explosion, that would technically be counted as temporary incapacitation in a thread. Not like it matters since no one can duplicate it or is bringing explosives to the table -- just sayin.

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#8 Edited by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n said:

Quickly, sure, but the attack still left him vulnerable. While he can heal from pretty much anything, it's clear he was by no means immune to pain when struck. While Killian did dominate most of the fight, there was still a portion where Tony took the upper hand -- albeit briefly. Given the same opportunity, I imagine Logan's use of claws would be more successful in hindering Killian than Tony's blunt force was. I can't help but wonder how a stab to the chest would impact him, too.

But Logan does have adamantium in this match, good sir! As for surviving the explosion, that would technically be counted as temporary incapacitation in a thread. Not like it matters since no one can duplicate it or is bringing explosives to the table -- just sayin.

Fair enough and yes, it was obvious that they still felt larger amount of pain but oddly enough, sometimes seemed to shrug off bullets as if they were nothing so piercing damage is inconsistant at times. Yeah, Tony's reactor blast to that main henchman seemed to do the job and I'm wondering how that would've affected Killian. See now, you told me otherwise prior about the adamantium! >.< That basically changes everything!

Well, not entirely true because if we're giving Frank standar gear, he was seen with grenades so he could finish off the job once Blade and Logan go to town on him because we don't exactly know what he can and can't recover from.

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#9 Posted by k4tzm4n (45986 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n said:

Quickly, sure, but the attack still left him vulnerable. While he can heal from pretty much anything, it's clear he was by no means immune to pain when struck. While Killian did dominate most of the fight, there was still a portion where Tony took the upper hand -- albeit briefly. Given the same opportunity, I imagine Logan's use of claws would be more successful in hindering Killian than Tony's blunt force was. I can't help but wonder how a stab to the chest would impact him, too.

But Logan does have adamantium in this match, good sir! As for surviving the explosion, that would technically be counted as temporary incapacitation in a thread. Not like it matters since no one can duplicate it or is bringing explosives to the table -- just sayin.

Fair enough and yes, it was obvious that they still felt larger amount of pain but oddly enough, sometimes seemed to shrug off bullets as if they were nothing so piercing damage is inconsistant at times. Yeah, Tony's reactor blast to that main henchman seemed to do the job and I'm wondering how that would've affected Killian. See now, you told me otherwise prior about the adamantium! >.< That basically changes everything!

Well, not entirely true because if we're giving Frank standar gear, he was seen with grenades so he could finish off the job once Blade and Logan go to town on him because we don't exactly know what he can and can't recover from.

Yeah, it definitely was inconsistent in that regard. Do you remember where they were shot? I know it was the chest/shoulder region, but did any appear to be in the heart? Curious how damage to the head would hinder them, too. Ha, while talking about making the match I was considering bone claw Wolverine, but seeing as he can still be knocked out with adamantium, I figured why not?

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#10 Posted by k4tzm4n (45986 posts) - - Show Bio
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#11 Edited by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n said:

Yeah, it definitely was inconsistent in that regard. Do you remember where they were shot? I know it was the chest/shoulder region, but did any appear to be in the heart? Curious how damage to the head would hinder them, too. Ha, while talking about making the match I was considering bone claw Wolverine, but seeing as he can still be knocked out with adamantium, I figured why not?

It was definitely around the torso, arm region because they seemed to be covering up but they also didn't really seem all that worried considering that Rhodey was a crack shot. Yeah, Bone Claw Wolverine has the potential to be knocked out far too easily, especially considering that both Killian and Cap are rather capable of doing so.

Well, in regards to a head shot, Tony's repulsor blast knocked out that main henchman for a decent amount of time and it basically just scorched the majority of his skin off and sent him backwards. A couple of slugs from a shotgun might do the trick from Frank.

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#12 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio
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#13 Posted by k4tzm4n (45986 posts) - - Show Bio

@deranged_midget: Yeah, kind of funny Rhodey didn't go for a headshot after that accuracy feat, but whatevs.

Staff
#14 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n: PIS breh, PIS! I wonder how different the battle would've went if Rhodey and Tony teamed up in their armour against Killian. Probably would've been an entirely different story.

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#15 Posted by JamesKM716 (1992 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 1

#16 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n: .... eeeewwww you use War Zone Punisher and not the actually good Punisher movie Punisher.

I give it to Team 1 as War Zone Punisher was all plot device, something that has no bearing in real showings.

#17 Edited by k4tzm4n (45986 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2 said:

@k4tzm4n: .... eeeewwww you use War Zone Punisher and not the actually good Punisher movie Punisher.

I give it to Team 1 as War Zone Punisher was all plot device, something that has no bearing in real showings.

IMHO he has more feats! Though, the Russian fight was awesome.

Staff
#18 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n: The Russian was classic, I felt it showed off that Durability that rivaled John Mclaine for Frank.

Punisher was a better prepper and way more real world skill than War Zone tho. I watch War Zone and in that movie a 203mm Grenade curved in mid air, like a rocket, to hit one of the jumping around black guys on meth. It made me throw up in my mouth when I realize just how B Rated Flick it was.

Bias aside I have no clue about the new IM movie, so no knowledge on Mandarin.

#19 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n: .... eeeewwww you use War Zone Punisher and not the actually good Punisher movie Punisher.

I give it to Team 1 as War Zone Punisher was all plot device, something that has no bearing in real showings.

What feats does Thomas Jane have over War Zone? He had his arse handed to him by the Russian, nearly killed by a random guitar assassin and then killed about a dozen of John Travolta's thugs.

Stevenson's Punisher had far more feats than that.

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#20 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@deranged_midget: Its not about feats. It is the Plot Device that is War Zone.

War Zone should solo Team 1 on Plot Device argument alone.

War Zone Punisher did not ever needed to aim, he hit guy on top balcomies while shooting level, WTF! Every 9mm bullet pierced concrete walls like they were anti tank rounds. He makes Straight Shot Grenades Curve like Heat Seeking Rockets!

HE is so full of **** that he borders on Toon Force.

Sorry, their is no legit feats for War Zone, at all.

#21 Edited by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: It's a plot device... how? Because you have a dislike for the film?

Everything about Thomas Jane's Punisher was a plot device if we go by your terms. He only beat the Russian because apparently a bath tub can save you from a grenade. The Russian decided to perfectly aim Frank into the next door apartment and land him right beside a boiling pot. Luckily enough for Frank, he didn't bleed out from the stab wound and falling down a flight of stairs and breaking something, but oh wait, he had the strength to eliminate the guard outside his apartment.

Don't forget the time his car crashed and luckily, he wasn't pinned and the Assassin decided to monologue.

;)

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#22 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@deranged_midget: Janes Punisher was realistic. He was TRASHED by the Russian, and used the Environment (Boiling Water) to win. A Steel Bath Tub could protect you from a Grenade. I seen Body Armor do as much. Bleeding out from a non critical Stab Wound was also Realistic, and he used a clear (Pun intended here) cut Weapon to dispatch the Guard, its not like he overpowered him. Assassin monoluge and Punsher realistically killed him with a realistic lucky shot.

Everything you pointed out is Possible.

War Zone that I pointed out is all BS that is not possible. Janes Punisher had to take cover and dodge Bullets. War Zone he simply spin on a freaking Chandler in circles and killed 20 guys spread out on 2 floors that way.... He spin in a circle shooting even with the firt floor and killed guys on the second floor?!

There is no excuse for War Zone. I have never met anyone who liked that movie till now. It was so R Rated Gory Toon Force Violence.

#23 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@deranged_midget: Janes Punisher was realistic. He was TRASHED by the Russian, and used the Environment (Boiling Water) to win. A Steel Bath Tub could protect you from a Grenade. I seen Body Armor do as much. Bleeding out from a non critical Stab Wound was also Realistic, and he used a clear (Pun intended here) cut Weapon to dispatch the Guard, its not like he overpowered him. Assassin monoluge and Punsher realistically killed him with a realistic lucky shot.

It's a comic book film, realism is out of the window mate. A bath tub cannot protect you from a grenade and body armour won't do much better in a point blank scenario. Grenades don't blow up in one direction, it's basically omnidirectional and it would decimiate anything in a half exposed bath tub that's within half a metre of the grenade.

How is getting stabbed in the chest a non critical wound? A non critical wound would be getting slashed at and cutting your upper arm or back, not getting stabbed directly in the chest. Assassin monologue is most definitely not realistic. An assassin gets the job done, period. There is no gloating, no show boating or messing around. You get the kill, get the proof and get paid.

War Zone that I pointed out is all BS that is not possible. Janes Punisher had to take cover and dodge Bullets. War Zone he simply spin on a freaking Chandler in circles and killed 20 guys spread out on 2 floors that way.... He spin in a circle shooting even with the firt floor and killed guys on the second floor?!

There is no excuse for War Zone. I have never met anyone who liked that movie till now. It was so R Rated Gory Toon Force Violence.

War Zone wasn't meant to be realistic nor are any of the films that are mentioned here. I don't see why you're trying to substitute that for any reason. "Realism" or not, Stevenson's Punisher had far more feats than Jane's did, end of story. Being less realistic doesn't make them any less applicable to the battle. That'd be like stating none of Sam Raimi's Spider-Man feats count because Webb took a more realistic approach.

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#24 Posted by TDK_1997 (14902 posts) - - Show Bio

I think that Team 1 should win this.Aldrich looked like a force that is really hard to stop,except if Team 2 has Pepper Potts. :P

#25 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@deranged_midget: I think your mstaken Realism of a Movie as Non Fiction Biography.

First a Grenade Blows Out.

Grenade lands in front of Frank. Frank climbs in Stainless Steel Bath Tub.

The Frag Blows out, meaning Frank in the protective Tub is safe.

Frags are not that powerful. A simple Grenade Sump in a foxhole is more than enough to contain the blast. The HUMAN BODY can contain the blast of a Grenade. Anyone who thinks other wise played too much Halo or watch too many Action movies.

Now as for the Stab Chest. It is not Critical. In Comabt a Critical wound requires massive Trauma, Vital Organs, or Main artery Damage.

Lets see.... 5 Inch Blade that miss the Heart and Lungs. No Main Arteries there.... all meat really. NOT CRITICAL!

Assassin Gloating, so what? I seen guys gloat all the time in a serious Football Tourney, it happens. You cannot say only Serious non gloating assassins exist. Most Assassins and Hitmen do the job out of SICK PLEASURE according to criminal profiles. Just saying.

Point is their is a sense of boundaries and realism in most movies. Punisher War Zone was Toon Force level and thus not worth debating.

That is my point. We will agree to disagree.

#26 Posted by k4tzm4n (45986 posts) - - Show Bio

RE: Frank

  • He doesn't have an RPG. So that curving doesn't matter.
  • Just apply logic when he uses firearms. They're obviously not going to blow through Cap's shield or rip through walls they shouldn't.
  • We have a rough understanding of his pain tolerance. We have a rough understanding of how he operates in combat. We have a rough understanding of his accuracy. We have a rough understanding of his hand-to-hand. Work with that and use common sense with his arsenal.
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#27 Edited by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@deranged_midget: I think your mstaken Realism of a Movie as Non Fiction Biography.

First a Grenade Blows Out.

Grenade lands in front of Frank. Frank climbs in Stainless Steel Bath Tub.

The Frag Blows out, meaning Frank in the protective Tub is safe.

Frags are not that powerful. A simple Grenade Sump in a foxhole is more than enough to contain the blast. The HUMAN BODY can contain the blast of a Grenade. Anyone who thinks other wise played too much Halo or watch too many Action movies.

Seriously... Standard issue frags have a kill radius of around 5-6 metres and if I remember correctly, anywhere up to roughly twenty metres is enough to injure someone and leave them defenceless. I don't know where you're getting your info from mate, but you are seriously downplaying a grenade, especially at the range given.

Now as for the Stab Chest. It is not Critical. In Comabt a Critical wound requires massive Trauma, Vital Organs, or Main artery Damage.

Lets see.... 5 Inch Blade that miss the Heart and Lungs. No Main Arteries there.... all meat really. NOT CRITICAL!

I know what "critical" pertains to but regardless, a stab wound is a stab wound and one where the knife almost clearly through Frank. And yet, he recovers quickly enough to wield the pull back of a compound bow and get shot in the chest, albeit whilst wearing body armour. But ok.

Assassin Gloating, so what? I seen guys gloat all the time in a serious Football Tourney, it happens. You cannot say only Serious non gloating assassins exist. Most Assassins and Hitmen do the job out of SICK PLEASURE according to criminal profiles. Just saying.

Point is their is a sense of boundaries and realism in most movies. Punisher War Zone was Toon Force level and thus not worth debating.

That is my point. We will agree to disagree.

Wait... you are comparing Football tournaments... to trained assassinations? Alrighty then.

Point is their is a sense of boundaries and realism in most movies. Punisher War Zone was Toon Force level and thus not worth debating.

Mate, I don't know if you forgot, but we spend our entire time here debating comic books. There is no sense of realism whatsoever in these.

In what sense is there boundaries in a guy building a suit of armour or someone else creating a virus that allows them to regenerate their body from nearly any wound? Or a man becoming superhuman from taking a serum and being dosed by "Vita rays"? How about a man who emits gamma radiation and transforms into an eight foot rage monster?

The short answer: there is no realism or boundaries and yet, we still debate it.

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#28 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@deranged_midget: All my info comes form Seabee Warfare Pin. Same training as Marines for the Navy Construction Battalion. Does Grenades have a 5 meter kill zone? yes. Does it frag enough to accomplish it? No.

Anyway we will agree to disagree.

#29 Posted by k4tzm4n (45986 posts) - - Show Bio

Any more thoughts?

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