#201 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (4022 posts) - - Show Bio

@heraldofganthet:

You certainly got me interested in Gentleman Ghost, I must know more lol

#202 Edited by LordOfAllHumans (4022 posts) - - Show Bio

@dredeuced:

with 3 hours prep yes they could stop Flash from doing anything, like breathing if they wanted to. Cable was disoriented from using his power like that for the first time, and that says nothing about Rachel since time travel is her acutal mutant power and tp/tk are mutant but only powers she inherited from her mother. Like I said with 3 hours prep and a crap load of powerfull telepaths and reality warpers, Flash is a non-factor here.

#203 Edited by mightyrearranger (1524 posts) - - Show Bio

@heraldofganthet said:

@mightyrearranger: Does say a hell of a lot that Gentleman Ghost straight-up put the guy in a coma when he actually got pissed off though. O.O

Yes it does. He wouldn't (nor did you or I ever say that he would) slapbox with Franklin Richards. But he doesn't have to in order to make his presence felt here among the larger battle. Especially since no one on the Marvel side has any Nth Metal:P

True. I'm curious though...If Franklin were to blink Hawkman out of existence (can he do that?) or incap him through some weird reality manipulation, would Craddock also finally be put to rest?

More questions: What does the Marvel team have to counter technopaths like The Thinker and Cyborg Superman, or those who are truly and highly TP-resistant like The Top or any denizens of the Darklands (Nightshade alone was able to drive telepaths to near-death)?

#204 Posted by ConvenientLie (644 posts) - - Show Bio

@convenientlie: Im not mad, but this is turning into a pointless thread. That why im going to suggest a fix to the OP, anyway, the "f*ck" its a form of expression it wasn't implying i was attacking you in any way... However, i want to see which argument you're going to use because i've only seen Ellain solo's in half your arguments... Why including an omnipotent being, dont you want a not biased fight? Just sayin...

oh ok then, no biggie. i'll just ignore the cursing then. Well man, its simple. I see a side that can beat another side so i say, hey this side would beat that side. THATS why i sai elain solos. why do you have a problem with that side winning? i thought you werent being biased.

#205 Posted by GhostRavage (8855 posts) - - Show Bio

@dredeuced: Im trying to get this more even, actually, it was until people brought Ellain into game, she's an omnipotent being... That takes out all the fun don't you think... I was having fun posting scans and arguing about Franklin but you just can't argue against omnipotent beings... Am i right? If it stays the same, then i'll just walk along and think this was a spite thread... I don't really care, but as it is right now, its spite...

#206 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (4022 posts) - - Show Bio

@heraldofganthet said:

@mightyrearranger: Does say a hell of a lot that Gentleman Ghost straight-up put the guy in a coma when he actually got pissed off though. O.O

Yes it does. He wouldn't (nor did you or I ever say that he would) slapbox with Franklin Richards. But he doesn't have to in order to make his presence felt here among the larger battle. Especially since no one on the Marvel side has any Nth Metal:P

True. I'm curious though...If Franklin were to blink Hawkman out of existence (can he do that?) or incap him through some weird reality manipulation, would Craddock also finally be put to rest?

More questions: What does the Marvel team have to counter technopaths like The Thinker and Cyborg Superman, or those who are truly and highly TP-resistant like The Top or any denizens of the Darklands (Nightshade alone was able to drive telepaths to near-death)?

telekinesis

#207 Posted by GhostRavage (8855 posts) - - Show Bio

@convenientlie: You're Ok with that side winning so easily...? i thought you weren't biased either...

#208 Posted by ConvenientLie (644 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostravage: You are trying to get the rules changed so you can say your favored company wins. You shouldn't be so bitter or spiteful about what amounts to a well meaning thread meant to encourage fun debate.

true.

#209 Posted by ConvenientLie (644 posts) - - Show Bio

@convenientlie: You're Ok with that side winning so easily...? i thought you weren't biased either...

i'm NOT biased. I just read the OP, saw a side i thought would win, then other people confirmed what i thought and thats that. its over. one side won and now i have 4 tabs open and ive moved on to other threads. i just come back here to reply to you all or to see if things have changed that would change my mind.

#210 Posted by mightyrearranger (1524 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordofallhumans:

Yeah, bingo.

Though killing either of the two is a pretty difficult thing to do.

Also, I'm throwing out names like these because the Marvel team has 3 hours of prep. Take 23 of us and we're probably not going to be able to learn everything about everyone on the entire planet in a few hours (especially if we're unfamiliar with the planet and it's inhabitants). So beyond the big names, the A-listers, B-listers, etc..., there are probably some folks on the DC side who might slip through the cracks prep-wise. Reed's brilliant, but it'd take some Flash-like speed and then some to memorize a planet and plan around it in that time, right?

#211 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (4022 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordofallhumans:

Yeah, bingo.

Though killing either of the two is a pretty difficult thing to do.

Also, I'm throwing out names like these because the Marvel team has 3 hours of prep. Take 23 of us and we're probably not going to be able to learn everything about everyone on the entire planet in a few hours (especially if we're unfamiliar with the planet and it's inhabitants). So beyond the big names, the A-listers, B-listers, etc..., there are probably some folks on the DC side who might slip through the cracks prep-wise. Reed's brilliant, but it'd take some Flash-like speed and then some to memorize a planet and plan around it in that time, right?

with prep and Cerebro Jean can read the minds of everybody on DC Earth, she can sweep hundreds of minds at once and find what she is looking for without it, with it she can easily scan billions. Shields may impede her but as I said before she has found ways around those.

#212 Posted by ConvenientLie (644 posts) - - Show Bio

@mightyrearranger said:

@lordofallhumans:

Yeah, bingo.

Though killing either of the two is a pretty difficult thing to do.

Also, I'm throwing out names like these because the Marvel team has 3 hours of prep. Take 23 of us and we're probably not going to be able to learn everything about everyone on the entire planet in a few hours (especially if we're unfamiliar with the planet and it's inhabitants). So beyond the big names, the A-listers, B-listers, etc..., there are probably some folks on the DC side who might slip through the cracks prep-wise. Reed's brilliant, but it'd take some Flash-like speed and then some to memorize a planet and plan around it in that time, right?

with prep and Cerebro Jean can read the minds of everybody on DC Earth, she can sweep hundreds of minds at once and find what she is looking for without it, with it she can easily scan billions. Shields may impede her but as I said before she has found ways around those.

not that any of that would matter since Mazikeen and elain can solo

#213 Posted by Dredeuced (5509 posts) - - Show Bio

@dredeuced:

with 3 hours prep yes they could stop Flash from doing anything, like breathing if they wanted to. Cable was disoriented from using his power like that for the first time, and that says nothing about Rachel since time travel is her acutal mutant power and tp/tk are mutant but only powers she inherited from her mother. Like I said with 3 hours prep and a crap load of powerfull telepaths and reality warpers, Flash is a non-factor here.

What? Are you saying they're gonna attack Flash during the prep?

#214 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (4022 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordofallhumans said:

@mightyrearranger said:

@lordofallhumans:

Yeah, bingo.

Though killing either of the two is a pretty difficult thing to do.

Also, I'm throwing out names like these because the Marvel team has 3 hours of prep. Take 23 of us and we're probably not going to be able to learn everything about everyone on the entire planet in a few hours (especially if we're unfamiliar with the planet and it's inhabitants). So beyond the big names, the A-listers, B-listers, etc..., there are probably some folks on the DC side who might slip through the cracks prep-wise. Reed's brilliant, but it'd take some Flash-like speed and then some to memorize a planet and plan around it in that time, right?

with prep and Cerebro Jean can read the minds of everybody on DC Earth, she can sweep hundreds of minds at once and find what she is looking for without it, with it she can easily scan billions. Shields may impede her but as I said before she has found ways around those.

not that any of that would matter since Mazikeen and elain can solo

It does matter, unless Elaine suddenly left the universe that was created by Lucifer/Michael and now resides in current DC. Did that happen?

#215 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (4022 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordofallhumans said:

@dredeuced:

with 3 hours prep yes they could stop Flash from doing anything, like breathing if they wanted to. Cable was disoriented from using his power like that for the first time, and that says nothing about Rachel since time travel is her acutal mutant power and tp/tk are mutant but only powers she inherited from her mother. Like I said with 3 hours prep and a crap load of powerfull telepaths and reality warpers, Flash is a non-factor here.

What? Are you saying they're gonna attack Flash during the prep?

No I'm saying he doesn't matter because they have prep.

#216 Posted by GhostRavage (8855 posts) - - Show Bio

@dredeuced: Pooty already stated a counter for any speedster like them. There's a machine Reed has that doesn't let you get near them... See the previous comments about him, he explains somehow how it works...

#217 Posted by ConvenientLie (644 posts) - - Show Bio

@convenientlie said:

@lordofallhumans said:

@mightyrearranger said:

@lordofallhumans:

Yeah, bingo.

Though killing either of the two is a pretty difficult thing to do.

Also, I'm throwing out names like these because the Marvel team has 3 hours of prep. Take 23 of us and we're probably not going to be able to learn everything about everyone on the entire planet in a few hours (especially if we're unfamiliar with the planet and it's inhabitants). So beyond the big names, the A-listers, B-listers, etc..., there are probably some folks on the DC side who might slip through the cracks prep-wise. Reed's brilliant, but it'd take some Flash-like speed and then some to memorize a planet and plan around it in that time, right?

with prep and Cerebro Jean can read the minds of everybody on DC Earth, she can sweep hundreds of minds at once and find what she is looking for without it, with it she can easily scan billions. Shields may impede her but as I said before she has found ways around those.

not that any of that would matter since Mazikeen and elain can solo

It does matter, unless Elaine suddenly left the universe that was created by Lucifer/Michael and now resides in current DC. Did that happen?

elaine and mazikeen are a part of DC

#218 Edited by LordOfAllHumans (4022 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordofallhumans said:

@convenientlie said:

@lordofallhumans said:

@mightyrearranger said:

@lordofallhumans:

Yeah, bingo.

Though killing either of the two is a pretty difficult thing to do.

Also, I'm throwing out names like these because the Marvel team has 3 hours of prep. Take 23 of us and we're probably not going to be able to learn everything about everyone on the entire planet in a few hours (especially if we're unfamiliar with the planet and it's inhabitants). So beyond the big names, the A-listers, B-listers, etc..., there are probably some folks on the DC side who might slip through the cracks prep-wise. Reed's brilliant, but it'd take some Flash-like speed and then some to memorize a planet and plan around it in that time, right?

with prep and Cerebro Jean can read the minds of everybody on DC Earth, she can sweep hundreds of minds at once and find what she is looking for without it, with it she can easily scan billions. Shields may impede her but as I said before she has found ways around those.

not that any of that would matter since Mazikeen and elain can solo

It does matter, unless Elaine suddenly left the universe that was created by Lucifer/Michael and now resides in current DC. Did that happen?

elaine and mazikeen are a part of DC

Currently?

#219 Posted by Dredeuced (5509 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordofallhumans: How? How does the word prep counter anything I've said? They clearly can't stop him because, when the fight starts, The Flash clearly has the best demonstrated reaction time in the fight and could leave before the Marvel families could react.

And, frankly, whatever prep you attribute to the Marvel families SHOULD be matchable by the likes of Tao, Luthor, Constantine etc etc. I think there's an enormous level of underestimation on the part of the entirety of DC Earth by you.

#220 Posted by Dredeuced (5509 posts) - - Show Bio

@dredeuced: Pooty already stated a counter for any speedster like them. There's a machine Reed has that doesn't let you get near them... See the previous comments about him, he explains somehow how it works...

Good thing my argument had nothing to do with Flash going near them. He kills them in the past.

#221 Edited by LordOfAllHumans (4022 posts) - - Show Bio

@dredeuced said:

@lordofallhumans: How? How does the word prep counter anything I've said? They clearly can't stop him because, when the fight starts, The Flash clearly has the best demonstrated reaction time in the fight and could leave before the Marvel families could react.

And, frankly, whatever prep you attribute to the Marvel families SHOULD be matchable by the likes of Tao, Luthor, Constantine etc etc. I think there's an enormous level of underestimation on the part of the entirety of DC Earth by you.

Because of prep they can initiate actions before the battle starts to render him useless.

I've underestimated nothing, this is about Flash, frankly I wasn't aware that Tao was even running around in current DC, and Constantine ability to be as effective as you believe is debatable.

#222 Posted by Dredeuced (5509 posts) - - Show Bio

@dredeuced said:

@lordofallhumans: How? How does the word prep counter anything I've said? They clearly can't stop him because, when the fight starts, The Flash clearly has the best demonstrated reaction time in the fight and could leave before the Marvel families could react.

And, frankly, whatever prep you attribute to the Marvel families SHOULD be matchable by the likes of Tao, Luthor, Constantine etc etc. I think there's an enormous level of underestimation on the part of the entirety of DC Earth by you.

Because of prep they can initiate actions before the battle starts to render him useless.

No they can't? Unless Flash could go back in time before the fight starts and kill them then, too.

Flash could also just lend speed to Tao and Constantine to give them a relative thirty thousand years of prep relative to Marvel Earth if you want me to really hardcore game this.

#223 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (4022 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordofallhumans said:

@dredeuced said:

@lordofallhumans: How? How does the word prep counter anything I've said? They clearly can't stop him because, when the fight starts, The Flash clearly has the best demonstrated reaction time in the fight and could leave before the Marvel families could react.

And, frankly, whatever prep you attribute to the Marvel families SHOULD be matchable by the likes of Tao, Luthor, Constantine etc etc. I think there's an enormous level of underestimation on the part of the entirety of DC Earth by you.

Because of prep they can initiate actions before the battle starts to render him useless.

No they can't? Unless Flash could go back in time before the fight starts and kill them then, too.

Flash could also just lend speed to Tao and Constantine to give them a relative thirty thousand years of prep relative to Marvel Earth if you want me to really hardcore game this.

Franklin can travel in time, Rachel can travel in time, Cable can travel in time too. Point is since they are on DC Earth any DC time travlers going back in time would do nothing to stop the Marvel team, DC would only have access to the point in time the Marvel team entered DC space, the Marvel team however would not be so restricted.

#224 Edited by mightyrearranger (1524 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordofallhumans said:

@mightyrearranger said:

@lordofallhumans:

Yeah, bingo.

Though killing either of the two is a pretty difficult thing to do.

Also, I'm throwing out names like these because the Marvel team has 3 hours of prep. Take 23 of us and we're probably not going to be able to learn everything about everyone on the entire planet in a few hours (especially if we're unfamiliar with the planet and it's inhabitants). So beyond the big names, the A-listers, B-listers, etc..., there are probably some folks on the DC side who might slip through the cracks prep-wise. Reed's brilliant, but it'd take some Flash-like speed and then some to memorize a planet and plan around it in that time, right?

with prep and Cerebro Jean can read the minds of everybody on DC Earth, she can sweep hundreds of minds at once and find what she is looking for without it, with it she can easily scan billions. Shields may impede her but as I said before she has found ways around those.

What happens when Cyborg Supes hacks into Cerebro, as well as any and all of Mr. Fantastic's tech? He's accomplished similar feats pretty instantaneously on multiple occasions within a huge range (interfered with the entire East Coast, possibly country on another outing). With prep and permission (and a desire to be killed), he's already going to take the DC Earth tech over pretty easily.

#225 Edited by ConvenientLie (644 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordofallhumans said:

@dredeuced said:

@lordofallhumans: How? How does the word prep counter anything I've said? They clearly can't stop him because, when the fight starts, The Flash clearly has the best demonstrated reaction time in the fight and could leave before the Marvel families could react.

And, frankly, whatever prep you attribute to the Marvel families SHOULD be matchable by the likes of Tao, Luthor, Constantine etc etc. I think there's an enormous level of underestimation on the part of the entirety of DC Earth by you.

Because of prep they can initiate actions before the battle starts to render him useless.

No they can't? Unless Flash could go back in time before the fight starts and kill them then, too.

Flash could also just lend speed to Tao and Constantine to give them a relative thirty thousand years of prep relative to Marvel Earth if you want me to really hardcore game this.

great points.

#226 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (4022 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordofallhumans said:

@mightyrearranger said:

@lordofallhumans:

Yeah, bingo.

Though killing either of the two is a pretty difficult thing to do.

Also, I'm throwing out names like these because the Marvel team has 3 hours of prep. Take 23 of us and we're probably not going to be able to learn everything about everyone on the entire planet in a few hours (especially if we're unfamiliar with the planet and it's inhabitants). So beyond the big names, the A-listers, B-listers, etc..., there are probably some folks on the DC side who might slip through the cracks prep-wise. Reed's brilliant, but it'd take some Flash-like speed and then some to memorize a planet and plan around it in that time, right?

with prep and Cerebro Jean can read the minds of everybody on DC Earth, she can sweep hundreds of minds at once and find what she is looking for without it, with it she can easily scan billions. Shields may impede her but as I said before she has found ways around those.

What happens when Cyborg Supes hacks into Cerebro, as well as any and all of Mr. Fantastic's tech? He's accomplished similar feats pretty instantaneously on multiple occasions within a huge range (interfered with the entire East Coast, possibly country on another outing). With prep and permission (and a desire to be killed), he's already going to take the DC Earth tech over pretty easily.

This is prep not knowledge of the characters, there is no reason to believe they know about Cerebro.

#227 Posted by Dredeuced (5509 posts) - - Show Bio

@dredeuced said:

@lordofallhumans said:

@dredeuced said:

@lordofallhumans: How? How does the word prep counter anything I've said? They clearly can't stop him because, when the fight starts, The Flash clearly has the best demonstrated reaction time in the fight and could leave before the Marvel families could react.

And, frankly, whatever prep you attribute to the Marvel families SHOULD be matchable by the likes of Tao, Luthor, Constantine etc etc. I think there's an enormous level of underestimation on the part of the entirety of DC Earth by you.

Because of prep they can initiate actions before the battle starts to render him useless.

No they can't? Unless Flash could go back in time before the fight starts and kill them then, too.

Flash could also just lend speed to Tao and Constantine to give them a relative thirty thousand years of prep relative to Marvel Earth if you want me to really hardcore game this.

Franklin can travel in time, Rachel can travel in time, Cable can travel in time too. Point is since they are on DC Earth any DC time travlers going back in time would do nothing to stop the Marvel team, DC would only have access to the point in time the Marvel team entered DC space, the Marvel team however would not be so restricted.

You are adjusting the premises to defend your argument. In any and all crossovers they either travel to each other's universe or the universes merge and share the same history. If they merge, as you're suggesting, then Flash can go back in time at the start of the fight as shared universes have shared histories.

Rachel and Cable couldn't stop Flash. Kid Franklin has never consciously timetravelled and none of them would have any idea which point in time Flash is time travelling to or how to stop him. It's not like their time travel takes them through the speed force. Flash kills the Richards and the Summers family trees as soon as the fight starts.

#228 Edited by ConvenientLie (644 posts) - - Show Bio

@mightyrearranger said:

@lordofallhumans said:

@mightyrearranger said:

@lordofallhumans:

Yeah, bingo.

Though killing either of the two is a pretty difficult thing to do.

Also, I'm throwing out names like these because the Marvel team has 3 hours of prep. Take 23 of us and we're probably not going to be able to learn everything about everyone on the entire planet in a few hours (especially if we're unfamiliar with the planet and it's inhabitants). So beyond the big names, the A-listers, B-listers, etc..., there are probably some folks on the DC side who might slip through the cracks prep-wise. Reed's brilliant, but it'd take some Flash-like speed and then some to memorize a planet and plan around it in that time, right?

with prep and Cerebro Jean can read the minds of everybody on DC Earth, she can sweep hundreds of minds at once and find what she is looking for without it, with it she can easily scan billions. Shields may impede her but as I said before she has found ways around those.

What happens when Cyborg Supes hacks into Cerebro, as well as any and all of Mr. Fantastic's tech? He's accomplished similar feats pretty instantaneously on multiple occasions within a huge range (interfered with the entire East Coast, possibly country on another outing). With prep and permission (and a desire to be killed), he's already going to take the DC Earth tech over pretty easily.

This is prep not knowledge of the characters, there is no reason to believe they know about Cerebro.

actually cyborg is connected to every computer on earth.

#229 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (4022 posts) - - Show Bio

@dredeuced said:

@lordofallhumans said:

@dredeuced said:

@lordofallhumans: How? How does the word prep counter anything I've said? They clearly can't stop him because, when the fight starts, The Flash clearly has the best demonstrated reaction time in the fight and could leave before the Marvel families could react.

And, frankly, whatever prep you attribute to the Marvel families SHOULD be matchable by the likes of Tao, Luthor, Constantine etc etc. I think there's an enormous level of underestimation on the part of the entirety of DC Earth by you.

Because of prep they can initiate actions before the battle starts to render him useless.

No they can't? Unless Flash could go back in time before the fight starts and kill them then, too.

Flash could also just lend speed to Tao and Constantine to give them a relative thirty thousand years of prep relative to Marvel Earth if you want me to really hardcore game this.

great points.

Not really, he can't travel to a Marvel timeline to do anything to them on DC Earth, at most he would only be able to travel within the 3 hours of prep, Marvel time travelers in DC can travel to the start of DC.

The telepaths can take the prep to the astral plane to counter the second point, there is no time there and you can learn several lifetimes of anything there with a powerful enough telepath. Jean jammed years of knowledge into the mind of Cecila Reyes, and gave a group of inexperienced mutants a crash course on their powers during a plane ride. She absorbed all of Beasts knowledge about anatomy in seconds, and the Cuckoos also did the same thing to Elixer.

#230 Posted by ConvenientLie (644 posts) - - Show Bio

@convenientlie said:

@dredeuced said:

@lordofallhumans said:

@dredeuced said:

@lordofallhumans: How? How does the word prep counter anything I've said? They clearly can't stop him because, when the fight starts, The Flash clearly has the best demonstrated reaction time in the fight and could leave before the Marvel families could react.

And, frankly, whatever prep you attribute to the Marvel families SHOULD be matchable by the likes of Tao, Luthor, Constantine etc etc. I think there's an enormous level of underestimation on the part of the entirety of DC Earth by you.

Because of prep they can initiate actions before the battle starts to render him useless.

No they can't? Unless Flash could go back in time before the fight starts and kill them then, too.

Flash could also just lend speed to Tao and Constantine to give them a relative thirty thousand years of prep relative to Marvel Earth if you want me to really hardcore game this.

great points.

Not really, he can't travel to a Marvel timeline to do anything to them on DC Earth, at most he would only be able to travel within the 3 hours of prep, Marvel time travelers in DC can travel to the start of DC.

The telepaths can take the prep to the astral plane to counter the second point, there is no time there and you can learn several lifetimes of anything there with a powerful enough telepath. Jean jammed years of knowledge into the mind of Cecila Reyes, and gave a group of inexperienced mutants a crash course on their powers during a plane ride. She absorbed all of Beasts knowledge about anatomy in seconds, and the Cuckoos also did the same thing to Elixer.

wait what???? why are you talk;ing about marvel and dc timelines? they are fighting eachother in one timeline. flash is faster and would time travel first and kill whoever he wanted. not that it matters since Mazikeen and elain can solo

#231 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (4022 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordofallhumans said:

@dredeuced said:

@lordofallhumans said:

@dredeuced said:

@lordofallhumans: How? How does the word prep counter anything I've said? They clearly can't stop him because, when the fight starts, The Flash clearly has the best demonstrated reaction time in the fight and could leave before the Marvel families could react.

And, frankly, whatever prep you attribute to the Marvel families SHOULD be matchable by the likes of Tao, Luthor, Constantine etc etc. I think there's an enormous level of underestimation on the part of the entirety of DC Earth by you.

Because of prep they can initiate actions before the battle starts to render him useless.

No they can't? Unless Flash could go back in time before the fight starts and kill them then, too.

Flash could also just lend speed to Tao and Constantine to give them a relative thirty thousand years of prep relative to Marvel Earth if you want me to really hardcore game this.

Franklin can travel in time, Rachel can travel in time, Cable can travel in time too. Point is since they are on DC Earth any DC time travlers going back in time would do nothing to stop the Marvel team, DC would only have access to the point in time the Marvel team entered DC space, the Marvel team however would not be so restricted.

You are adjusting the premises to defend your argument. In any and all crossovers they either travel to each other's universe or the universes merge and share the same history. If they merge, as you're suggesting, then Flash can go back in time at the start of the fight as shared universes have shared histories.

Rachel and Cable couldn't stop Flash. Kid Franklin has never consciously timetravelled and none of them would have any idea which point in time Flash is time travelling to or how to stop him. It's not like their time travel takes them through the speed force. Flash kills the Richards and the Summers family trees as soon as the fight starts.

Where have I adjusted anything? It's this group against DC Earth, what part of that says the universe merged? Don't they have to travel to DC Earth to go against it?

Kid Franklin has traveled anywhere he wanted to via his dream self, look it up. They don't need the speed force or to even know what it is, Cable and Rachel can psionically manipulate chronal energy.

So like I said on DC Earth, Flash cannot travel to Marvel past, but Marvel time travelers in DC can travel to his.

#232 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (4022 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordofallhumans said:

@convenientlie said:

@dredeuced said:

@lordofallhumans said:

@dredeuced said:

@lordofallhumans: How? How does the word prep counter anything I've said? They clearly can't stop him because, when the fight starts, The Flash clearly has the best demonstrated reaction time in the fight and could leave before the Marvel families could react.

And, frankly, whatever prep you attribute to the Marvel families SHOULD be matchable by the likes of Tao, Luthor, Constantine etc etc. I think there's an enormous level of underestimation on the part of the entirety of DC Earth by you.

Because of prep they can initiate actions before the battle starts to render him useless.

No they can't? Unless Flash could go back in time before the fight starts and kill them then, too.

Flash could also just lend speed to Tao and Constantine to give them a relative thirty thousand years of prep relative to Marvel Earth if you want me to really hardcore game this.

great points.

Not really, he can't travel to a Marvel timeline to do anything to them on DC Earth, at most he would only be able to travel within the 3 hours of prep, Marvel time travelers in DC can travel to the start of DC.

The telepaths can take the prep to the astral plane to counter the second point, there is no time there and you can learn several lifetimes of anything there with a powerful enough telepath. Jean jammed years of knowledge into the mind of Cecila Reyes, and gave a group of inexperienced mutants a crash course on their powers during a plane ride. She absorbed all of Beasts knowledge about anatomy in seconds, and the Cuckoos also did the same thing to Elixer.

wait what???? why are you talk;ing about marvel and dc timelines? they are fighting eachother in one timeline. flash is faster and would time travel first and kill whoever he wanted. not that it matters since Mazikeen and elain can solo

I'm talking about the two timelines because this happens in DC, which means nobody is traveling back into the Marvel past. I asked you before are those two running around in current DC? If not they are not in this battle.

#233 Posted by ConvenientLie (644 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordofallhumans: lol that doesnt make any sense. ive never seen anyone try to say what youre saying. there is an arena and the specifed marvel and DC characters are fighting there. dont think too hard. Mazikeen or elain solo

#234 Posted by ConvenientLie (644 posts) - - Show Bio

@convenientlie said:

@lordofallhumans said:

@convenientlie said:

@dredeuced said:

@lordofallhumans said:

@dredeuced said:

@lordofallhumans: How? How does the word prep counter anything I've said? They clearly can't stop him because, when the fight starts, The Flash clearly has the best demonstrated reaction time in the fight and could leave before the Marvel families could react.

And, frankly, whatever prep you attribute to the Marvel families SHOULD be matchable by the likes of Tao, Luthor, Constantine etc etc. I think there's an enormous level of underestimation on the part of the entirety of DC Earth by you.

Because of prep they can initiate actions before the battle starts to render him useless.

No they can't? Unless Flash could go back in time before the fight starts and kill them then, too.

Flash could also just lend speed to Tao and Constantine to give them a relative thirty thousand years of prep relative to Marvel Earth if you want me to really hardcore game this.

great points.

Not really, he can't travel to a Marvel timeline to do anything to them on DC Earth, at most he would only be able to travel within the 3 hours of prep, Marvel time travelers in DC can travel to the start of DC.

The telepaths can take the prep to the astral plane to counter the second point, there is no time there and you can learn several lifetimes of anything there with a powerful enough telepath. Jean jammed years of knowledge into the mind of Cecila Reyes, and gave a group of inexperienced mutants a crash course on their powers during a plane ride. She absorbed all of Beasts knowledge about anatomy in seconds, and the Cuckoos also did the same thing to Elixer.

wait what???? why are you talk;ing about marvel and dc timelines? they are fighting eachother in one timeline. flash is faster and would time travel first and kill whoever he wanted. not that it matters since Mazikeen and elain can solo

I'm talking about the two timelines because this happens in DC, which means nobody is traveling back into the Marvel past. I asked you before are those two running around in current DC? If not they are not in this battle.

oh sorry, didnt see youre question. yes even in this thread theyve been talked about. either one solos.

/end thread

#235 Edited by LordOfAllHumans (4022 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordofallhumans said:

@mightyrearranger said:

@lordofallhumans said:

@mightyrearranger said:

@lordofallhumans:

Yeah, bingo.

Though killing either of the two is a pretty difficult thing to do.

Also, I'm throwing out names like these because the Marvel team has 3 hours of prep. Take 23 of us and we're probably not going to be able to learn everything about everyone on the entire planet in a few hours (especially if we're unfamiliar with the planet and it's inhabitants). So beyond the big names, the A-listers, B-listers, etc..., there are probably some folks on the DC side who might slip through the cracks prep-wise. Reed's brilliant, but it'd take some Flash-like speed and then some to memorize a planet and plan around it in that time, right?

with prep and Cerebro Jean can read the minds of everybody on DC Earth, she can sweep hundreds of minds at once and find what she is looking for without it, with it she can easily scan billions. Shields may impede her but as I said before she has found ways around those.

What happens when Cyborg Supes hacks into Cerebro, as well as any and all of Mr. Fantastic's tech? He's accomplished similar feats pretty instantaneously on multiple occasions within a huge range (interfered with the entire East Coast, possibly country on another outing). With prep and permission (and a desire to be killed), he's already going to take the DC Earth tech over pretty easily.

This is prep not knowledge of the characters, there is no reason to believe they know about Cerebro.

actually cyborg is connected to every computer on earth.

there are portable versions of Cerebro, and he is connected to every computer on his Earth that is connected to the network on his Earth, Cerebro is not connected to any such network it runs off of Shi'ar tech.

@lordofallhumans: lol that doesnt make any sense. ive never seen anyone try to say what youre saying. there is an arena and the specifed marvel and DC characters are fighting there. dont think too hard. Mazikeen or elain solo

What doesn't make since? They are fighting DC Earth, what about that says they are anywhere but DC? Where are Elaine and Mazikeen currently? If they are not currently on DC Earth then by the rules of the forum they are not to be included unless specified by the OP, and the OP says DC Earth,, so I'll ask again are they on DC Earth?

#236 Edited by ConvenientLie (644 posts) - - Show Bio
#237 Posted by GhostRavage (8855 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostravage said:

@dredeuced: Pooty already stated a counter for any speedster like them. There's a machine Reed has that doesn't let you get near them... See the previous comments about him, he explains somehow how it works...

Good thing my argument had nothing to do with Flash going near them. He kills them in the past.

And still i don't know how will they know who to kill in the past, nor at which moment land in the time stream to do so... If they know in the prep, then Reed and some other egghead will know too and will counter it rather easy. I don't see them pulling the win that way.

#238 Posted by Dredeuced (5509 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordofallhumans: The OP says nothing of the sort. He said they're battling the whole of DC Earth which implies the characters, as it has in a million other threads in the past. Perhaps the OP could elucidate on the situation but in cross universe fights you assumed shared universe.

And again, you've said nothing of the fact that DC has equivalent to superior prepsters with thousands of years of relative prep time thanks to Flash

#239 Posted by ConvenientLie (644 posts) - - Show Bio

@dredeuced said:

@ghostravage said:

@dredeuced: Pooty already stated a counter for any speedster like them. There's a machine Reed has that doesn't let you get near them... See the previous comments about him, he explains somehow how it works...

Good thing my argument had nothing to do with Flash going near them. He kills them in the past.

And still i don't know how will they know who to kill in the past, nor at which moment land in the time stream to do so... If they know in the prep, then Reed and some other egghead will know too and will counter it rather easy. I don't see them pulling the win that way.

he already said that they get 3 hours prep and basic knowledge and sue and reed are famous so he'd know where to find them like that. if you think reed can counter that state how. not that it matters since its already been decided dc earth wins.

#240 Edited by LordOfAllHumans (4022 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordofallhumans said:

@convenientlie said:

@lordofallhumans said:

@convenientlie said:

@dredeuced said:

@lordofallhumans said:

@dredeuced said:

@lordofallhumans: How? How does the word prep counter anything I've said? They clearly can't stop him because, when the fight starts, The Flash clearly has the best demonstrated reaction time in the fight and could leave before the Marvel families could react.

And, frankly, whatever prep you attribute to the Marvel families SHOULD be matchable by the likes of Tao, Luthor, Constantine etc etc. I think there's an enormous level of underestimation on the part of the entirety of DC Earth by you.

Because of prep they can initiate actions before the battle starts to render him useless.

No they can't? Unless Flash could go back in time before the fight starts and kill them then, too.

Flash could also just lend speed to Tao and Constantine to give them a relative thirty thousand years of prep relative to Marvel Earth if you want me to really hardcore game this.

great points.

Not really, he can't travel to a Marvel timeline to do anything to them on DC Earth, at most he would only be able to travel within the 3 hours of prep, Marvel time travelers in DC can travel to the start of DC.

The telepaths can take the prep to the astral plane to counter the second point, there is no time there and you can learn several lifetimes of anything there with a powerful enough telepath. Jean jammed years of knowledge into the mind of Cecila Reyes, and gave a group of inexperienced mutants a crash course on their powers during a plane ride. She absorbed all of Beasts knowledge about anatomy in seconds, and the Cuckoos also did the same thing to Elixer.

wait what???? why are you talk;ing about marvel and dc timelines? they are fighting eachother in one timeline. flash is faster and would time travel first and kill whoever he wanted. not that it matters since Mazikeen and elain can solo

I'm talking about the two timelines because this happens in DC, which means nobody is traveling back into the Marvel past. I asked you before are those two running around in current DC? If not they are not in this battle.

oh sorry, didnt see youre question. yes even in this thread theyve been talked about. either one solos.

/end thread

It doesn't matter if they were talked about, I can talk about the bastard son of Lady Gaga and the Living Tribunal, but he is not currently in this battle or a current denizen of DC Earth so it doesn't count as a viable option in this battle according to the OP.

#241 Posted by ConvenientLie (644 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordofallhumans: except they DO count as was already talked about and proven earlier.

#242 Edited by ConvenientLie (644 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordofallhumans: also youre confused or manipulating info on purpose because the OP doesnt say you have to be a current denizen of earth. it says that the dc earth team are only those that are from earth. big difference.

#243 Edited by mightyrearranger (1524 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordofallhumans said:

@mightyrearranger said:

@lordofallhumans said:

@mightyrearranger said:

@lordofallhumans:

Yeah, bingo.

Though killing either of the two is a pretty difficult thing to do.

Also, I'm throwing out names like these because the Marvel team has 3 hours of prep. Take 23 of us and we're probably not going to be able to learn everything about everyone on the entire planet in a few hours (especially if we're unfamiliar with the planet and it's inhabitants). So beyond the big names, the A-listers, B-listers, etc..., there are probably some folks on the DC side who might slip through the cracks prep-wise. Reed's brilliant, but it'd take some Flash-like speed and then some to memorize a planet and plan around it in that time, right?

with prep and Cerebro Jean can read the minds of everybody on DC Earth, she can sweep hundreds of minds at once and find what she is looking for without it, with it she can easily scan billions. Shields may impede her but as I said before she has found ways around those.

What happens when Cyborg Supes hacks into Cerebro, as well as any and all of Mr. Fantastic's tech? He's accomplished similar feats pretty instantaneously on multiple occasions within a huge range (interfered with the entire East Coast, possibly country on another outing). With prep and permission (and a desire to be killed), he's already going to take the DC Earth tech over pretty easily.

This is prep not knowledge of the characters, there is no reason to believe they know about Cerebro.

No, but Hank Henshaw will immediately sense it via his technopathy. 3 hours is plenty of time for him to "Big Brother" the majority of DC Earth in prep (for lack of a better term). From there, he can jump into Cerebro once Jean arrives (sensing it as she does) and render it pretty useless. I'ma do some scan searching after I'm done at work.

His only problem will be Magneto, but I could see a couple others (Mirror Master) giving him trouble. In fact, I wonder how the reality warpers would interact with the Mirror Zone?

#244 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (4022 posts) - - Show Bio

@convenientlie:

If the OP doesn't specify then current versions by forum rules is default. There was a specific list of Marvel and even an edit that only upgraded Marvel, no mention of any and all DC people, therefore my point still stands, Elaine and co. are not in this battle unless they are currently running around DC.

If they are not on DC Earth than it furthers my point about Flash going back in time more than 3 hours before the start of the battle, so in this neutral-verse nobody on either side can traval farther back than that, therefore he is a non-factor considering the power of the Marvel team with prep.

#245 Posted by mightyrearranger (1524 posts) - - Show Bio

@convenientlie said:

@lordofallhumans said:

@mightyrearranger said:

@lordofallhumans said:

@mightyrearranger said:

@lordofallhumans:

Yeah, bingo.

Though killing either of the two is a pretty difficult thing to do.

Also, I'm throwing out names like these because the Marvel team has 3 hours of prep. Take 23 of us and we're probably not going to be able to learn everything about everyone on the entire planet in a few hours (especially if we're unfamiliar with the planet and it's inhabitants). So beyond the big names, the A-listers, B-listers, etc..., there are probably some folks on the DC side who might slip through the cracks prep-wise. Reed's brilliant, but it'd take some Flash-like speed and then some to memorize a planet and plan around it in that time, right?

with prep and Cerebro Jean can read the minds of everybody on DC Earth, she can sweep hundreds of minds at once and find what she is looking for without it, with it she can easily scan billions. Shields may impede her but as I said before she has found ways around those.

What happens when Cyborg Supes hacks into Cerebro, as well as any and all of Mr. Fantastic's tech? He's accomplished similar feats pretty instantaneously on multiple occasions within a huge range (interfered with the entire East Coast, possibly country on another outing). With prep and permission (and a desire to be killed), he's already going to take the DC Earth tech over pretty easily.

This is prep not knowledge of the characters, there is no reason to believe they know about Cerebro.

actually cyborg is connected to every computer on earth.

there are portable versions of Cerebro, and he is connected to every computer on his Earth that is connected to the network on his Earth, Cerebro is not connected to any such network it runs off of Shi'ar tech.

I don't believe he's limited to "Earth", hence his time as Manhunter Grandmaster. Not to mention, his powers are space-based in origin anyways. You may be right, but I'm not sure that's entirely true...

#246 Edited by LordOfAllHumans (4022 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordofallhumans said:

@mightyrearranger said:

@lordofallhumans said:

@mightyrearranger said:

@lordofallhumans:

Yeah, bingo.

Though killing either of the two is a pretty difficult thing to do.

Also, I'm throwing out names like these because the Marvel team has 3 hours of prep. Take 23 of us and we're probably not going to be able to learn everything about everyone on the entire planet in a few hours (especially if we're unfamiliar with the planet and it's inhabitants). So beyond the big names, the A-listers, B-listers, etc..., there are probably some folks on the DC side who might slip through the cracks prep-wise. Reed's brilliant, but it'd take some Flash-like speed and then some to memorize a planet and plan around it in that time, right?

with prep and Cerebro Jean can read the minds of everybody on DC Earth, she can sweep hundreds of minds at once and find what she is looking for without it, with it she can easily scan billions. Shields may impede her but as I said before she has found ways around those.

What happens when Cyborg Supes hacks into Cerebro, as well as any and all of Mr. Fantastic's tech? He's accomplished similar feats pretty instantaneously on multiple occasions within a huge range (interfered with the entire East Coast, possibly country on another outing). With prep and permission (and a desire to be killed), he's already going to take the DC Earth tech over pretty easily.

This is prep not knowledge of the characters, there is no reason to believe they know about Cerebro.

No, but Hank Henshaw will immediately sense it via his technopathy. 3 hours is plenty of time for him to "Big Brother" the majority of DC Earth in prep (for lack of a better term). From there, he can jump into Cerebro once Jean arrives (sensing it as she does) and render it pretty useless. I'ma do some scan searching after I'm done at work.

His only problem will be Magneto, but I could see a couple others (Mirror Master) giving him trouble. In fact, I wonder how the reality warpers would interact with the Mirror Zone?

I'm banking on the Shi'ar tech that makes Cerebro/bra what it is to keep him from doing anything considering nobody has ever found out about Cerebro/bra without acutally coming into physical contact with it by storming the Mansion or knowing the Xmen. Not to mention if Jean is hooked up to it, thanks to her tk she can think her way into machines as shown when she thought her way into millions of nanotech minds at once, she can fight him there in cyberspace and she has he Phoenix so he won't last.

#247 Posted by ConvenientLie (644 posts) - - Show Bio

@convenientlie:

If the OP doesn't specify then current versions by forum rules is default. There was a specific list of Marvel and even an edit that only upgraded Marvel, no mention of any and all DC people, therefore my point still stands, Elaine and co. are not in this battle unless they are currently running around DC.

If they are not on DC Earth than it furthers my point about Flash going back in time more than 3 hours before the start of the battle, so in this neutral-verse nobody on either side can traval farther back than that, therefore he is a non-factor considering the power of the Marvel team with prep.

the OP specifically says that they have to be FROM earth. thats all that matters. so ANYONE from earth applies here and we use the current versions of those characters so yes they do count and they solo.

#248 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (4022 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordofallhumans said:

@convenientlie:

If the OP doesn't specify then current versions by forum rules is default. There was a specific list of Marvel and even an edit that only upgraded Marvel, no mention of any and all DC people, therefore my point still stands, Elaine and co. are not in this battle unless they are currently running around DC.

If they are not on DC Earth than it furthers my point about Flash going back in time more than 3 hours before the start of the battle, so in this neutral-verse nobody on either side can traval farther back than that, therefore he is a non-factor considering the power of the Marvel team with prep.

the OP specifically says that they have to be FROM earth. thats all that matters. so ANYONE from earth applies here and we use the current versions of those characters so yes they do count and they solo.

Anyone from Earth means anyone from Earth now! Are they on Earth now? So you are saying that basically God is allowed for DC and this is not spite? Not to mention the new no omnipotents rules.

#249 Edited by GhostRavage (8855 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostravage said:

@dredeuced said:

@ghostravage said:

@dredeuced: Pooty already stated a counter for any speedster like them. There's a machine Reed has that doesn't let you get near them... See the previous comments about him, he explains somehow how it works...

Good thing my argument had nothing to do with Flash going near them. He kills them in the past.

And still i don't know how will they know who to kill in the past, nor at which moment land in the time stream to do so... If they know in the prep, then Reed and some other egghead will know too and will counter it rather easy. I don't see them pulling the win that way.

he already said that they get 3 hours prep and basic knowledge and sue and reed are famous so he'd know where to find them like that. if you think reed can counter that state how. not that it matters since its already been decided dc earth wins.

You should read the OP again... It never mentioned any previous knowledge of any of the characters... Also, if it doesn't matter, why bother in replying to a comment that wasn't even meant to you... You also said you moved on and that you were only coming back to reply at people talking to you... Im starting to dislike you. -.-

#250 Posted by Dredeuced (5509 posts) - - Show Bio

@convenientlie: Mazikeen is from Hell. She just lives on Earth after Lucifer took her there and opened his bar.