Marvel's Top Families vs DC Earth

@ghostravage said:

@convenientlie said:

@ghostravage: im glad you admitted your biased. now moving on to the scans that you wanted. here you go

@rolldestroyer said:

elaine belloc became the presence at the end of the series.

ALL SCANS ARE FROM RIGHT TO LEFT

first off she absorbed her father's demiurgic power and created a third creation alongside yahweh's and lucifer's (issue 57)

Gallery

^that's from issue 58

then the presence gives elaine the responisbility of God and she merges the three creations becoming God (issue 69)

Gallery

confirmation:

so using elaine in a battle forum is using the presence indirectly

franklin (adult) was able to fight the celestials, the same celestials who have tanked a universal version of the infinity gauntlet on occasions, sure, but that doesn't mean he is anywhere near the living tribunal whose name i see thrown around casually in this thread, he's only second to TOAA.

Suuuuureee... Im the one biased... Anyway, LT is above all of them... I've never said AFR was LT lvl... You sure know how to manipulate info huh?

As for the scans... It suggests she an universal being and basically God in her own world... That's what the guy is telling her, that a third world was created and the name they're yelling is hers... She's not anything close to the Presence as long as she's not in her world. The presence is above everyone in the DCverse... Not to mention she was created by Vertigo mostly.

what? are you serious?

you do know that what she merged was yahweh's multiverse+lucifer's multiverse+her own creation right? you also do know that there is no world/universe beside her own because all three have been merged right?

and like i said before, presence himself gave his place to elaine.

@convenientlie: @ghostravage: Gentlemen, gentlemen... The bottom line here is that Franklin (of any age) seems to be Marvel's MVP. For good reason. That said, there are several different characters on the DC side who can do some off the wall s**t just like he can. There are no Celestials in the DCU, but there are/have been reality warpers of incaluable power to walk in both universes. I move towards stalemate. You two hit the showers.

i dont think that. but you already admitted youre biased towards marvel AND have marvel on your picutre so why try and deny it. anyway thats not even the point. the point is DC wins this and theres scans to show proof of how powerful just one person is.

I don't know man, but all this comments proves you weren't taking my arguments for granted while taking others without asking anything. That somehow proves you're biased.

Btw: Who's mad? Why would i be mad for a topic like this? Its not like we are 13 years old.

@ghostravage:

Warning: Just leave it alone, this would go on for 18 pages straight if you don't stop.

i think theres a huge misunderstanding. NONE of those comments i made make me biased. i simply used logic and then asked for proof that they could counter what i said. and no proof was shown by the way. and the flash thing doesnt even matter anymore because as ive seen the scans...ellaine would solo

I don't even understand the origin of this arguement

basically ellain solos is where we're at now.

Going with DC

@wardemon32: Hahaha, what, you've already experienced something similar with this guy? xD K man... I'll leave it alone.

I've never admitted im biased(which im not), i just said i like marvel more than DC, and that statement includes stories, characters, plots in general. Its not like im going towards Marvel in every thread. I've shown scans of how powerful a being can be too... ACTUALLY! In none of those scans shows what Ellaine can do... I was right... She was just a big pile of speculative sh*t after all... DC's typical... You're just assuming im biased because i have an >AVATAR< that i found cool and because i said i like Marvel more... well... that's a 12 year old kid conclusion.

Anyway, with Max and the people Herald mentioned i can see this as Stalemate. We've totally forgot about HoM Scarlet and Phoenix Jean Grey which are very high reality warpers. And from the very beginning i was arguing about a list someone made of people who could "stomp" Marvel in this thread, i was proving him those people were not able to beat AFR. I've never mentioned Marvel stomping nor winning, just once and it was before people came to bring those "not well-known" reality warpers. I can see this ending in stalemate. With this said, im going to take Wander's advice and leave this arguing behind. You're not convincing me of anything and because i think you're biased you won't agree with me. So let's agree to disagree and move on.

I get that, I don't understand where the talk of bias is coming from

@ghostravage: im ignoring all of that cause none of it matters. its basically frank richards against god and a bunch of other crazy powerful beings on dc's side unless you care to make an argument for that. but until i see proof that frank richards can beat GOD, im going with.....GOD.

@ghostravage: None of the people you have mentioned are on the level of Ellaine or even Lucifer or Michael

@dondave: HoM wanda is on par with lucifer and michael.

ok, so creating her own universe with michael's power and then merging 3 multiverses and becoming God isn't good enough?

the whole plot of the last......2 dozen issues is about elaine replacing the presence, try to read it before posting that she is a pile of speculative shit.

i got called biased because i asked for reaction speed feats and i got called a flash wanker for that too. idk why he's so angry or hostile. i then commented on the irony of him calling me biased when he has marvel written on his avatar picture. he then stated that he does prefer marvel over DC which means he admitted his bias. Not that i care i just wanted to comment on the irony. ANNNYWAY, im done with that because ellain solos. and i want to move the conversation to that talking point.

BIAS: Inclination in favor of or against one thing, person, or group compared with another.

Maybe the definition will help since ghostravage SAID HIMSELF that he preferred marvel. thats the definition of bias, showing an inclanation of favor for one group.

Again, not that it matters just trying to prove a point.

@rolldestroyer: She's not HOM in her present incarnation, unless specified we are using the current incarnation of charcters right?

so is she now the most powerful being in the DC universe?

true. I was just commenting because the guy you replied to, about not being on par with lucifer and michael, specified HoM wanda.

@convenientlie:

eh....hard to say, since the presence did appear after that. It was kind of ignored in DCU.

hmm. interesting reads so far. ive got to get into that series. thanks for info man.

@rolldestroyer: Nope, that's not enough for me. If she replaced the Presence, then the scans suggests she can do nothing... she can't get in the middle of this fight, as the presence stated, she's going to cut the knot. I guess she won't be fighting. But still Max would be a problem. Also, is HoM equal to Lucifer and Michael?

HoM Scarlet was embracing the Life Aspect or something like that, something not even The Beyonder could handle. I think she can do some significant damage here, there's no need to discard such a powerful being... its not like she's wolverine or quicksilver lol...

No, you got call biased because you were conveniently "hence the name" asking for feats and proof for every Marvel claiming while just taking for granted those of DC's. Also, you can't assume im biased because i like more Marvel... If a character is more powerful than the other and given the circumstances he can be defeated... ill go for the one who has the better chances... Its not like i lean towards Marvel on every thread, but in this particular thread, i leaned towards Marvel because people didn't mention those high reality warpers but speedsters and powerhouses, people that doesn't stand a chance against high scale reality warpers... Until now. So, you don't really have evidence of me being biased. While i have some texts of you acting like one. So we'll just leave it at that.

1. HoM scarlet isnt in this battle and therefore doesnt need to be talked about

2. YOU called ME biased.

3. YOU called YOURSELF biased by saying you liked marvel better. I then posted the definition of bias and you fall under it by your own admission.

4. I never said that you lean towards Marvel on every thread.

5. I mentioned the speedsters because they logically would attack first and use speed steal rendering the opponents unable to move.

6. ^Thats logic, not biased arguments.

7. it doesnt matter if you have 60 powers if one of them isnt being able to take an IMP or being able to react to said IMP.

8. AGAIN, yes i do have proof your biased, cause YOU said so YOURSELF. I posted the definition of bias if you need help understanding.

9. As stated Ellain solos because shes basically god now.

@ghostravage:

did you ignore the part where she merged 3 creations on panel and became God as confirmed by both presence and lucifer? At this point you're simply ignoring evidence.

HoM wanda is indeed on par with lucifer and michael, her chaos wave basically destroyed the omniverse, with three words (no more mutants) she destroyed the mutant gene across the whole multiverse as confirmed in X-factor issue 24. Furthermore, the power of the beyonder (post retcon though he was still multiversal) was said to be nothing compared to her own power source, the life entity in children's crusade issue 8.

@ghostravage: There is no point of mentioning HOM Scarlet Witch, as this not Scarlet Witch's current incarnation. Unless the OP specifically wrote HOM Scarlet Witch in the OP, we assume it is her current version who could be dropped by anyone with telepathy

i think he saw the error he made and just left

Marvel has no answer for this family. Probably DC's most powerful family.

The thread creator said it could be HoM Scarlet though... Its some comments behind.

I like Marvel in general more than DC... How on earth that makes me a biased person... Dude, are you thinking what you're writing? I like both DC and Marvel but i like more Marvel overall... characters, stories and plots, i don't even know how that makes me a biased person, im a very reasonable person who understands when someone is more powerful than other... Its not like im a fanboy wtf... Grow up kid...

By logic i can say any reality warper like Franklin can alter everything at will and doesn't need to rely on reactions to beat Flash. But hey, you were still asking for feats...

Actually, i was kidding, its pretty clear she's omnipotent now. But the scans suggests she won't get into the fight because she will cut the knot as is natural from the Presence job. So i guess she won't be here. Also, she is indeed a pile of speculative sh*t... Omnipotence and it didn't looked like. She has a title like SP1M in my book but anyways, she's omnipotent so ill stand corrected.

What error? Can't a guy take a shit without having a kid poking his back? Wow... You're amazing...

BIAS: Inclination in favor of or against one thing, person, or group compared with another.

Maybe the definition will help since ghostravage SAID HIMSELF that he preferred marvel. thats the definition of bias, showing an inclanation of favor for one group.

Again, not that it matters just trying to prove a point.

@convenientlie: True, it doesn't matter because im not being bias here.

Her effect across the multiverse was proven untrue as nearly every dimension traveled to afterwards had no visible effect from M-day

Destroying the universe was part of a rippling effect as other Wandas or her equivalents where doing the same thing. Darkseid alone was destroying existence with his dying presence, does that make him just as powerful?

@ghostravage said:

thats cool. if youre not biased HERE then i wont try to argue about it. just wanted to show you that by the definition you ARE biased overall by your own admission. Anyway since youre not biased HERE, now do you see how marvel would lose?

@convenientlie: @ghostravage: Fellas, "Blessed are the peacemakers....". If you guys don't calm this feud down, the Mods are going to get involved. Neither of you want that. Let's just call this thing a massive tie and everybody go have a glass of lemonade (or something stronger if you're old enough.)

this isnt nasty or anything. he stopped calling me a wanker long ago. im not offended by it. and calling someone biased after he admitted he's biased isnt a bad thing or an insult. we're all fine here. lets just talk about how ellain would effect the outcome. would she or wouldnt she be allowed in this fight? if so, she solos right? is that something we can all agree on?

@convenientlie: lets just talk about how ellain would effect the outcome. would she or wouldnt she be allowed in this fight? if so, she solos right? is that something we can all agree on?

You are correct. If Ellaine is a part of this battle she wins outright. Let's hope that she does not have to enter this fray and give everyone on both sides of this conflict a cosmic "Don't make me come down there"!

@convenientlie: Having a preference while picking a comic book isn't the same as just say your character win in a thread because you like him more... Know the difference for f sakes... With this said, i prefer marvel comics rather than DC, but that doesn't work the same way in battle threads... I know what bias means and by any means im been bias in my arguments... While you just were claiming Flashes could beat nigh-omnipotent beings because they are well... Fast... And on top of that with Prep... <<<< That sir is bias.

This will be my last comment about this. It doesn't worth my time to argue about something so meaningless. Good luck trying to win an argument that way.

WRONG. I asked for reaction time feats from franklin and you called me and other wankers and flash wankers and fan boys. even herald of ganthet asked why you were so mad and asked you to calm down. if theres a new definition for biased where asking for feats from franklin makes you biased then screw it, i gues in this new generation where word definitions change, then i guess that makes me biased. NOBODY ASK FOR PROOF OR SCANS CAUSE THAT"LL MAKE YOU BIASED NOW. lol yeeeesh, could you imagine

Would any of the Marvel U characters mentioned even be able to touch Gentleman Ghost?

on panel evidence disagrees with you (X-factor issue 24)

Gallery

all beast(s) across the multiverse are on the same journey to find a cure

^this is just one evidence you know, i could show you more:

the chaos wave is referenced as being wanda's: (house of m: decimation)

considering that was darkseid's true form (which was also confirmed by an interview) yes id say he's that powerful.

@mightyrearranger: Would any of the Marvel U characters mentioned even be able to touch Gentleman Ghost?

Only the virgins and/or if the Marvel characters in question got their hands on some Nth Metal.

I'm picking Marvel, for one Hope "is Phoenix" really no way of getting around that (so is Jean and technically Rachel and Maddie), on top of, with the prep she can mimic the powers of her entire "family" and all other mutants present. With Jean helping her, since Jean can increase the powers of mutants and allow them to work at levels beyond normal for as long as she wants combined with her being able to jam years worth of combat experience and skill into others, Hope with her families power and the other mutants added could literally destroy and rebuild the universe a dozen times over.

@rolldestroyer: What exactly are the Beast scans showing? I don't understand

Jean has already demonstrated that telepaths can fight and beat ghost.

Aren't the "ghosts" of the Marvel universe somehow linked to more of a psionic plane than a truly mystical one?

That being said, I'm trying to think of legitimate Marvel U specters, and not demons/projections/demigods/whatever...What example are you thinking of?

@lordofallhumans:Jean has already demonstrated that telepaths can fight and beat ghost.

I'm unaware of the composition of spiritual beings in the Marvel U., but in DC telepathic assaults have been less than useless against The Gentleman's Ghost. The only things that have ever slowed him down (let alone defeated him) were the purest of heart (because he can't possess them/manipulate them), virgins (due to their sexual purity and will power), and weapons made entirely or partially out of Nth Metal [due to its inherant ability to disrupt/nullify Chaos Energy Fields (a.k.a. magic)].

The astral plane is just as mystic as it is psionic in Marvel, Dr. Strange has had plenty of mystical battles on the astral plane.

I'm talking about when Ogun possessed a girl and Jean used her telepathy to battle him on the astral plane and beat him soundly.

All that means is that DC telepaths don't have the ability to fight ghosts, Marvel telepaths on the other hand do.

@lordofallhumans: All that means is that DC telepaths don't have the ability to fight ghosts, Marvel telepaths on the other hand do.

Possibly. By contrast, it could also be as simple as the supernatural beings from these two different universes follow different sets of rules. This would easily allow for them to have drastically different vulnerabilities as they are not identical. Merely similar.

OR that means that marvels ghosts CAN be affected by telepaths but since gentleman ghost is a DC ghost, marvel telepaths wont do anything to him.

This is taking place on the DC Earth, correct? Doc Strange would make sense here, as he's a spellcaster. The fact that a psionic is out there ghostbusting comes across to me as some sloppy handling of the character, imo.

Also not sure if likening Ogun to Craddock is valid either. Ogun (and it seems like other spirits in the Marvel U) appears to require a host in the physical world. Craddock just goes about his business, interacting with corporeal objects/beings one moment and phasing through matter the next. He's a special case even in his own universe.

Couldn't I just as easily theorize that Marvel ghosts don't have the ability to resist telepathy, while a ghost created by way of a mystical, Egyptian curse has said ability.

On another note, let's talk pseudo-science for a second here: It's pretty commonly accepted that "telepathy" is a concept that involves one character targeting another by way of their brain. A ghost is a purely intangible and spiritual presence. What writer had the brilliant idea of pitting a telepath against a presence whose actual brain sat decaying in the ground years ago? Granted, this is a fictional tale of fictional concepts, but it's still a showing that 100% violates it's own fictional rules.