Marvel and Star Wars vs DC and Star Trek

Ok beatboks1 Q enjoyed mixing with humanity and provoking them for his own enjoyment. Doesn't mean he didn't know the outcome, he just wanted to do it because he could.

@grevous11 said:

jedi know what the flash is gonna do before the flash even knows himself...

Their precognition gives them a warning a few split seconds before Flash starts moving, yes. That still doesn't make them fast enough to actually do anything, before Flash has knocked them all unconscious.

And I can't help but notice, that you didn't provide any nanosecond reaction feats for any Jedi/Sith.

@SirMethos said:

@grevous11 said:

jedi know what the flash is gonna do before the flash even knows himself...

Their precognition gives them a warning a few split seconds before Flash starts moving, yes. That still doesn't make them fast enough to actually do anything, before Flash has knocked them all unconscious.

And I can't help but notice, that you didn't provide any nanosecond reaction feats for any Jedi/Sith.

Incorrect. Seconds can be hours for Jedi. Luke and Sids have moved so fast that Leia couldn't even see them and could only sense light and darkness battling. She was a jedi knight by this point.

@ShootingNova said:

@SirMethos said:

@grevous11 said:

jedi know what the flash is gonna do before the flash even knows himself...

Their precognition gives them a warning a few split seconds before Flash starts moving, yes. That still doesn't make them fast enough to actually do anything, before Flash has knocked them all unconscious.

And I can't help but notice, that you didn't provide any nanosecond reaction feats for any Jedi/Sith.

Incorrect. Seconds can be hours for Jedi. Luke and Sids have moved so fast that Leia couldn't even see them and could only sense light and darkness battling. She was a jedi knight by this point.

Incorrect. They don't have "hours", before the fight starts. If you try actually reading the OP, it says "no prep."

And moving fast enough that a human, even a jedi, can't see you, would still have you practically standing still compared to Flash.

So far, there are still no one that has provided anything to prove that the Jedi/Sith can in any way, prevent themselves from being knocked unconscious in the first few nanoseconds by Flash(especially since there's more than 1 Flash in this fight).

@SirMethos said:

@ShootingNova said:

@SirMethos said:

@grevous11 said:

jedi know what the flash is gonna do before the flash even knows himself...

Their precognition gives them a warning a few split seconds before Flash starts moving, yes. That still doesn't make them fast enough to actually do anything, before Flash has knocked them all unconscious.

And I can't help but notice, that you didn't provide any nanosecond reaction feats for any Jedi/Sith.

Incorrect. Seconds can be hours for Jedi. Luke and Sids have moved so fast that Leia couldn't even see them and could only sense light and darkness battling. She was a jedi knight by this point.

Incorrect. They don't have "hours", before the fight starts. If you try actually reading the OP, it says "no prep."

And moving fast enough that a human, even a jedi, can't see you, would still have you practically standing still compared to Flash.

So far, there are still no one that has provided anything to prove that the Jedi/Sith can in any way, prevent themselves from being knocked unconscious in the first few nanoseconds by Flash(especially since there's more than 1 Flash in this fight).

I'm not talking about prep. I'm talking about the fight. Look, some Jedi are able to "freeze time" basically a Jedi will sense exactly when and where Flash will strike before he does. Nanosecond or not, Flash can't move faster than Sids or Luke, given how the Chosen One couldn't even see Sids. If Flash miraculously kills Sids, Sids's spirit will possess him instantly.

Flash can't move faster than Sids or Luke

Isn't the flash going at FTL speeds technically breaking the time barrier sending him partially into the future? Isn't that how time travel works, and why for the moment time travel isn't possible, because we cant travel FTL? So if Flash is travelling at FTL speeds, wouldn't he knock out the jedi before they themselves could manipulate the timestream to begin with?

If some of the participants are fighting on Cyberton then they arent really having much influence on the outcome of the battle in space.

As soon as the battle starts Cyberton can be destroyed pretty much immediately via bombardment from each side - thus leaving the space ships to engage.

Obviously a number of the DC/Marvel guys can fly through space at a massive speed and will decimate the opposition - for example - 20 star destroyers are lined up which would make them an easy target for supes to fly and blitz straight through....... provided he can penetrate the shielding.

Perhaps with the Jedi and Siths forsight and battle meditation abilites they have a nice handle on events and can manipulate the carnage to their advantage...

Star Trek, i believe - whilst not having anywhere near the fire power of Star Wars regarding Space Ships still have the advantage of teleportation from a massive distance....

Jean Grey/ Professor X will be massively important as will Martian Manhunter if it comes to controlling a large chunk of the opposing teams......

Really cant decide on this one at the moment - far to many variables :D

@ShootingNova said:

I'm not talking about prep. I'm talking about the fight. Look, some Jedi are able to "freeze time" basically a Jedi will sense exactly when and where Flash will strike before he does. Nanosecond or not, Flash can't move faster than Sids or Luke, given how the Chosen One couldn't even see Sids. If Flash miraculously kills Sids, Sids's spirit will possess him instantly.

Even if they are capable of freezing time, their reflexes are still not fast enough to actually do it, between the time that the fight starts, and the nanoseconds later, when Flash knocks them unconscious.

You still haven't provided anything to prove that Jedi/Sith have anywhere near nanosecond reaction time.

Q solos

Kirk sleeps with everyone rendering them useless, giving enough time for DC to win

I can't say.

TOAA and Presence blink everybody else out of existence, and battle it out. Don't know who'd win that battle.

@blackadamFTW: Same dude, for the sake of argument let's say we keep TOAA and Presence out of it...in which case Q comes around and erases everyone from existence....after Kirks sleeps with everyone.

@SirMethos said:

@ShootingNova said:

I'm not talking about prep. I'm talking about the fight. Look, some Jedi are able to "freeze time" basically a Jedi will sense exactly when and where Flash will strike before he does. Nanosecond or not, Flash can't move faster than Sids or Luke, given how the Chosen One couldn't even see Sids. If Flash miraculously kills Sids, Sids's spirit will possess him instantly.

Even if they are capable of freezing time, their reflexes are still not fast enough to actually do it, between the time that the fight starts, and the nanoseconds later, when Flash knocks them unconscious.

You still haven't provided anything to prove that Jedi/Sith have anywhere near nanosecond reaction time.

K, lets assume that Flash does smash through them and they die. Then what? Killing the physical body of Sidious or Abeloth means their spirit will just possess Flash. And Sids always has control over his body, he can't be knocked unconscious.

@Silver2467 said:

@ShootingNova said:

Flash can't move faster than Sids or Luke

Wha...?

Okay, I was probably exaggerating too much.

My head just exploded at the sheer silliness of this! Gene Roddenberry is trying to come back from the dead to punch you in the face @Sci_Fi_Rulez for such a silly battle!

ST is not limited to only Q. We had another dude that in a moment of anger killed an entire civilization with a thought. Also we have people that can remove you from time. Just point and shoot. Sidious would not even have a soul left as he never existed in the first place. SW has bigger ships and more firepower (mostly) but ST has super powerfull people and tech. SW needed a small moon to blow up a planet. Species 8472 needed some 7 ships (i don't remember the number but it was around that) to blow up a planet and 1 ship = 1 crew. How many dudes where on the DeathStar?

@xan84 said:

ST is not limited to only Q. We had another dude that in a moment of anger killed an entire civilization with a thought. Also we have people that can remove you from time. Just point and shoot. Sidious would not even have a soul left as he never existed in the first place. SW has bigger ships and more firepower (mostly) but ST has super powerfull people and tech. SW needed a small moon to blow up a planet. Species 8472 needed some 7 ships (i don't remember the number but it was around that) to blow up a planet and 1 ship = 1 crew. How many dudes where on the DeathStar?

What? Sidious can create wormholes that destroy fleets, destroy the surface of planets and rip through space-time continuum. Nihilus has drained an entire world of force-sensitive life. Vitiate's ritual has destroyed all life on a planet and he gained immortality simultaneously.

@DrEgonSpengler said:

Ok beatboks1 Q enjoyed mixing with humanity and provoking them for his own enjoyment. Doesn't mean he didn't know the outcome, he just wanted to do it because he could.

Sorry but that just doesn't fly in the face of actual feats. if he was all knowing he

1. Wouldn't have been stripped of his powers by the continuum

2. Would have never been in danger in the war of the continuum because he would have known how to play it and known how to solve the war before it got that far without human help.

3. Would have known Quinn was going to break free from his imprisonment before it happened and not allowed it (certainly not allowed Voyager to interfere or even know of it)

4. Known that Quinn was going to kill himself for certain and prevented it

I can list several dozen more but there really isn't a point. Q aren't "all knowing", never have been

@beatboks1 said:

@DrEgonSpengler said:

Ok beatboks1 Q enjoyed mixing with humanity and provoking them for his own enjoyment. Doesn't mean he didn't know the outcome, he just wanted to do it because he could.

Sorry but that just doesn't fly in the face of actual feats. if he was all knowing he

1. Wouldn't have been stripped of his powers by the continuum

2. Would have never been in danger in the war of the continuum because he would have known how to play it and known how to solve the war before it got that far without human help.

3. Would have known Quinn was going to break free from his imprisonment before it happened and not allowed it (certainly not allowed Voyager to interfere or even know of it)

4. Known that Quinn was going to kill himself for certain and prevented it

I can list several dozen more but there really isn't a point. Q aren't "all knowing", never have been

Which is a relief.

All these events which you quote where concerning other Q. All Q have equel power, which is why only a Q can kill a Q. So in the case of Quinn who is also a Q its omnipotance vs omnipotance which means it could go either way. Its almost like a paradox. Perhaps you could say that Q aren't all knowing concerning other Q because they too are omnipotant!

Well, only a force-user can kill Abeloth for eternity, so Q ain't winning here...

Marvel/SW team. Could you imagine what would Reed Richards, Tony Stark and Hank Pym do or invent if they put they hands on SW technology?

@LevukaR: Nothing spectacular. Most of the greatest SW tech requires one to use the Force (holocrons; the buildings that the Celestials built; lightsabers/lightswhips/forcesabers/protosabers and so on). The Marvel guys can only do things like use vibroblades etc. which isn't impressive at all. Well, Marka Ragnos (and others) (maybe) can grant the Marvel guys force connections...

A force user isn't omnipotent or extremly advanced reality warpers that can create their own universes. Q can do this and did so in the episode Q who. The Q can defeat the SW universe with just a snap of their finger!

Take the droids from Clone wars and imagine that they all have been replaced with Ultrons. See the difference? What force in ST could defeat them?

@DrEgonSpengler: You do not understand, do you? The Q cannot even detect the Ones of Mortis while they are on Mortis; it is cut off from the rest of the universe and can only be interacted with if Q interacts with the Mortis Monolith, which they know nothing about. Abeloth's physical body can be destroyed, but as the Bringer/Entity of Chaos, her spirit will just possess one of the Q and use his/her powers to own the rest.

@LevukaR said:

Take the droids from Clone wars and imagine that they all have been replaced with Ultrons. See the difference? What force in ST could defeat them?

Apparently, the Q can easily.

So without Q Continuum DC/ST would lose easily?

@LevukaR: Quite true, at least to my knowledge. Except I have yet to explain to DrEgonSpengler that the Q cannot kill everyone in the SW universe instantly, like he says.

@LevukaR: The SW guys aren't dead just because of the Q, the Dr. has yet to respond to my post.

Not sure if you guys realise but the OP was edited quite a while ago - there is no Q or Beyonder in this battle anymore.

Makes the playing field more level now i believe....

Tell me how you think she can posess an all-powerful being? Each Q is like a god, do you guys understand that. Control over life and death, mastery over spacetime and matter and the ability to create universes with a single thought makes them incalcuably powerful. I will settle for a draw between the Q and SW universe, but I seriously dont think SW can destroy the ST universe.

@DrEgonSpengler said:

All these events which you quote where concerning other Q. All Q have equel power, which is why only a Q can kill a Q. So in the case of Quinn who is also a Q its omnipotance vs omnipotance which means it could go either way. Its almost like a paradox. Perhaps you could say that Q aren't all knowing concerning other Q because they too are omnipotant!

And how exactly does that explain how Benjamin Cisco ( a human ) could punch and surprise Q ?

Quinn was Moral for some time before he killed himself FAIL

None of the Q new of the Voyager crew attacking them in the continuum and Q's mate was was depowered and had to explain to Voyager how to enter the Continuum FAIL

There is as I sad several (more probably) dozen more, but some people will only see what they want to see.

@DrEgonSpengler said:

Tell me how you think she can posess an all-powerful being? Each Q is like a god, do you guys understand that. Control over life and death, mastery over spacetime and matter and the ability to create universes with a single thought makes them incalcuably powerful. I will settle for a draw between the Q and SW universe, but I seriously dont think SW can destroy the ST universe.

Abeloth is more than a god, she is a god and her powers surpass that of a god. She casually defeated two gods (both of who were among the Ones of Mortis, whom the Q cannot destroy) and made them bow to her, had it not been for Father she would have turned them into slaves.

Q's are omnipotent. It has been stated a few times now in the tvshow. They are Omnipotent and immortal. Q states it hismelf when he gets his powers back. When you are omnipotent you are also omniscient (if you can do anything you can also make yourself know everything). What you state there beatboks1 is obviously people trying to make a show or Q was lowering his abilities intentionaly. Think of Superman and getting hit by bullets. How fun would it be for Superman to end a comic book in a panel with his super speed? Now of course its a big paradox how you can have more then 1 omnipotent dude (even 1 is a paradox), how can they kill 1 another and how can they lose there powers... Just accept that from the show. Q can kill Q (aka omnipotent dudes can kill omnipotent dudes) and they can also depower 1 another if the majority agrees or something. Also the Q that killed himself made it clear they know EVRYTHING and that is why he was killing himself. That entire eposide was about that. Also you made a mistake. Q never stopped that Q from killing himself as Q himself gave that Q the poison to kill himself.

@DrEgonSpengler said:

Tell me how you think she can posess an all-powerful being? Each Q is like a god, do you guys understand that. Control over life and death, mastery over spacetime and matter and the ability to create universes with a single thought makes them incalcuably powerful. I will settle for a draw between the Q and SW universe, but I seriously dont think SW can destroy the ST universe.

every fictional universe has powerful beings. SW and Marvel do too. For example Marvel have the Beyonders who are basically exactly like the Q. There are just as many of them (if not more) SW also has it's beings of omnipotence, as Does DC. Q isn't winning anything here even if he was as powerful as you believe (which he isn't). The enemy has just as many beings in the same league (if not more)

@DrEgonSpengler: Dr. Strange has restored universes, sealed black holes, stopped and reversed time, absorbed enough energy to subconsciously destroy numerous galaxies, your point? Too early for a draw my friend, Abeloth's possessing powers have yet to be discussed and you're forgetting the Marvel guys. And the Ones of Mortis.

@LevukaR said:

@ShootingNova: So here is the battle strategy. These beings that Q cannot kill exist in SW and maybe in Marvel universe. They attack Q, try to kill them and the rest is relatively easy.

Not that simple, if they can be detected there is a chance that they will be destroyed. They have to try to prevent that.

@xan84 said:

Q's are omnipotent. It has been stated a few times now in the tvshow. They are Omnipotent and immortal. Q states it hismelf when he gets his powers back. When you are omnipotent you are also omniscient (if you can do anything you can also make yourself know everything). What you state there beatboks1 is obviously people trying to make a show or Q was lowering his abilities intentionaly. Think of Superman and getting hit by bullets. How fun would it be for Superman to end a comic book in a panel with his super speed? Now of course its a big paradox how you can have more then 1 omnipotent dude (even 1 is a paradox), how can they kill 1 another and how can they lose there powers... Just accept that from the show. Q can kill Q (aka omnipotent dudes can kill omnipotent dudes) and they can also depower 1 another if the majority agrees or something.

Oomnipotence does not = omniscience in any fictional universe, it never has. There are literally 10000's of characters in fiction who have one without the other. Unlimited power does not mean you know everything. The Q evolved to be the way they are (stated so in story) from a form like humanity. They are simply higher evolved beings, there are several in both comic universes who are close to the level of the Q.

@Jedi Wolverine said:

Not sure if you guys realise but the OP was edited quite a while ago - there is no Q or Beyonder in this battle anymore.

Makes the playing field more level now i believe....

Didn't see you back there! Sorry! In that case, SW and Marvel crush in two seconds.

@beatboks1 said:

@xan84 said:

Q's are omnipotent. It has been stated a few times now in the tvshow. They are Omnipotent and immortal. Q states it hismelf when he gets his powers back. When you are omnipotent you are also omniscient (if you can do anything you can also make yourself know everything). What you state there beatboks1 is obviously people trying to make a show or Q was lowering his abilities intentionaly. Think of Superman and getting hit by bullets. How fun would it be for Superman to end a comic book in a panel with his super speed? Now of course its a big paradox how you can have more then 1 omnipotent dude (even 1 is a paradox), how can they kill 1 another and how can they lose there powers... Just accept that from the show. Q can kill Q (aka omnipotent dudes can kill omnipotent dudes) and they can also depower 1 another if the majority agrees or something.

Oomnipotence does not = omniscience in any fictional universe, it never has. There are literally 10000's of characters in fiction who have one without the other. Unlimited power does not mean you know everything. The Q evolved to be the way they are (stated so in story) from a form like humanity. They are simply higher evolved beings, there are several in both comic universes who are close to the level of the Q.

Exactly.

@beatboks1 What OMNIPOTENT dudes are you talking about? Marvel for instance only has TOAA(not celestial). DC probably only has The Presence. PR Beyonder was defenetly not omnipotent as he could lose part of his power and go weaker. Not even LT is omnipotent. Omnipotent means you can do ANYTHING. So if i whant to be omniscient i can do that or i am NOT OMNIPOTENT. Also Q wanted to kill himself as he knew everything there was to be known and there was no more mistery. But yeah i can see how one could chalange that with all the bad plot it was in this show when Q was involved(but those where the best episodes as he was damn funny). But if we ignore that...

@xan84 said:

@beatboks1 What OMNIPOTENT dudes are you talking about? Marvel for instance only has TOAA(not celestial). DC probably only has The Presence. PR Beyonder was defenetly not omnipotent as he could lose part of his power and go weaker. Not even LT is omnipotent. Omnipotent means you can do ANYTHING. So if i whant to be omniscient i can do that or i am NOT OMNIPOTENT. Also Q wanted to kill himself as he knew everything there was to be known and there was no more mistery. But yeah i can see how one could chalange that with all the bad plot it was in this show when Q was involved(but those where the best episodes as he was damn funny). But if we ignore that...

You are terribly wrong. Omnipotent means you are all-powerful, the Q are NOT omnipotent.

So is this settled? That Marvel and SW win? Or is there some other matter to discuss?

Yeah I'm not buying the whole characters in SW that are more powerful than gods, can therefore beat Q. Gods by default should be omnipotent and therefore unbeatable. Unless you are talking about weaker "gods" like Thor, then yes you could have a character in SW that could beat a god. So what I'm saying is that gods in different universes seem to have different power showings, Just because a being in the SW universe can kill a "god", doesnt mean that that "god" is as powerful as Q to begin with! Which means that it's highly possible the "god" killing being cant kill a Q!

@ShootingNova I know what Omnipotent means. Fact is they state they are through the show. Like over and over and over again. If you don't like its fine but its fact. Also if anybody wins is the ST universe as they have weapons that can kill Omnipotent dudes(don't ask me for the logic behind is, the fact is they can do that). This only vs the top dogs of the universes. Ships, jedi, Sith etc are completly irrelevant. Its something like TOAA vs The Presence vs Q and shit like that. Its a draw or a win for ST as they are the only ones with the ability to harm and kill Omnipotent caracters. If we don't accept the Q ability to do that is a obvious draw as its TOAA vs The presence.

Oh and the Q can just change other people into Q making them omnipotent as well, like they did with Riker. Meaning they could make the entire ST and DC universe into members of the Q just to win the battle!