Martian Manhunter,Flash Vs Silver Surfer,Thor

Team 1.

@venomoushatred1001 said:

@Stronger said:

@venomoushatred1001: He can't permanently speedsteel Surfer.Although he can speedsteal Thor and bfr him to speed force.Then help MM deal with SS.

How? Proof?

SS can use his cosmic energy to do everything.Why can't he recharge his speed? And even if he was able to vibrate through pure energy force fields(which needs to be shown if he can or not) he breaks his hand at SS's jaw.

@Stronger said:

He breaks his hand at SS's jaw.

No, he doesn't. His speed force protects that from happening. And he actually pulls punches unlike Surfer.
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@Billy Batson said:

@Stronger said:

He breaks his hand at SS's jaw.

No, he doesn't. His speed force protects that from happening. And he actually pulls punches unlike Surfer.
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He needs to tap into it to heal.

And Surfer beats Flash.Can he vibrate through energy?

@Stronger said:

@Billy Batson said:

@Stronger said:

He breaks his hand at SS's jaw.

No, he doesn't. His speed force protects that from happening. And he actually pulls punches unlike Surfer.
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He needs to tap into it to heal.

And Surfer beats Flash.Can he vibrate through energy?

He's always connected to the speed force...
Sure. Why not.
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@venomoushatred1001 said:

Flash solos.

Thor vs MM, just wanted to point out that recently he went up against the Phoenix force a few times and Emma Frost. He showed good telepathy resistance.

in character dc (mostly due to flash) pwn

bloodlusted depending on whether or not ss starts on the ground marvel win

@Billy Batson: Prove it.

@Stronger:

Would have to through my Flash scans.
If he can go intangible by vibrating, why wouldn't he vibrate through energy?
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@Billy Batson said:

@Stronger:

Would have to through my Flash scans.
If he can go intangible by vibrating, why wouldn't he vibrate through energy?
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Because energy isn't something solid.Theoritically he could,but I think he would be extremely injured or KOed probably.

Going intangible would be the stupidest thing that Flash and Manhunter ever did...........

@Billy Batson: Well because energy is made up of molecules in an excited state which means they are moving around, rather than be stagnant. Meaning even while vibrating it would be more likely for his molecules to collide with the energy molecules.

Actual science aside, SS has been shown to hurt intangible foes, so I doubt this would help Flash.

@Man_of_Miracles:

Good thing the Flash is faster and has a better reaction time then :)
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@Billy Batson: Lol that is true.

@YoungJustice said:

Going intangible would be the stupidest thing that Flash and Manhunter ever did...........

Flash has done it enough times for it to be considered in character.

I meant that going intangible would be a stupid move. SS has matter manipulation in which he can turn them into solid stone if they do.

I'm sure that people will say I'm trolling for something lame but I am being serious. I didn't see in the OP that they were in Character or had Moral on. So I'm assuming it's just kill the other person.

I would never put money against Wally West. If his mind set was kill the other person, why wouldn't he A)Run back in time an kill them while unaware. B) use the speed force to completely disrupted reality around them. C) Use the speed force to steal their speed then infinite mass punch them. Or D) Open the speed force around them.

If he was out to kill no questions asked, I don't see anyone that Flash had foreknowledge of besting him, unless he didn't know about the fight until after it started and he was hit and even then if it didn't kill him, I'd still say Flash.

Out to kill, Flash Solo's the other time.

Martian Manhunter has to big of weakness and Flash doesn't have enough physical strength or powers defeat The Silver Surfer. Manhunter would use his telepathy attacks on Thor and that would take him out of the fight. Then Norrin would Scan for J'onn's weakness with his cosmic awareness then use fire based attacks on him. The Surfer has to many powers he could use against the flash, who doesn't have enough to take on The Silver Surfer or Thor.

SS wins solo.

@Mr_Explicit1 said:

Martian Manhunter has to big of weakness and Flash doesn't have enough physical strength or powers defeat The Silver Surfer. Manhunter would use his telepathy attacks on Thor and that would take him out of the fight. Then Norrin would Scan for J'onn's weakness with his cosmic awareness then use fire based attacks on him. The Surfer has to many powers he could use against the flash, who doesn't have enough to take on The Silver Surfer or Thor.

J'onn hasn't been weak to fire in years. Flash can use the infamous IMP and easily hurt Norrin and Thor.

@Genxsis: Because the things that you stated wouldn't beat SS

A) SS can time travel as well.

B) Why would that be any more effective than any other reality warper that SS has fought? also when has he done that?

C) It is questionable at best that he could speed steal SS

D) Opening the speed force would do what exactly? SS has survived supernova's and fought in the heart of a blackhole without being harmed, I think he would be just fine.

Team 2 pulls it off...flash kills Thor on the ground SS kill MM than finishes Wally

Lol like a mile away would matter to Wally. I'm tempted to say Flash would solo.

Both could make quick work of Thor. Then go defeat Silver Surfer. Or..

A serious Wally defeats Silver Surfer then helps Manhunter defeat Thor.

Or. A blood lusted Wally defeats both. The man out ran the big bang damnit. Do you know how fast that is. Really do you guys know.

When the universe was only one second old it was already 3 light years across.

Lets do the math.

Light travels at 670,619,880 mph. Times 8765.81 hours in a year.

Equals 5.8785265e+12

Times 3 years

Equals

1.763558e+13 mph.

divided by the speed of light (670, 619, 880)

equals flash moving at over 26297.4309679 times the speed of light.

Now i'm no mathematician and my math may be wrong but you get the point.

@SpideyPresence said:

flash moving at over 26297.4309679 times the speed of light.

Damn.. that's fast

@SpideyPresence said:

Lol like a mile away would matter to Wally. I'm tempted to say Flash would solo.

Both could make quick work of Thor. Then go defeat Silver Surfer. Or..

A serious Wally defeats Silver Surfer then helps Manhunter defeat Thor.

Or. A blood lusted Wally defeats both. The man out ran the big bang damnit. Do you know how fast that is. Really do you guys know.

When the universe was only one second old it was already 3 light years across.

Lets do the math.

Light travels at 670,619,880 mph. Times 8765.81 hours in a year.

Equals 5.8785265e+12

Times 3 years

Equals

1.763558e+13 mph.

divided by the speed of light (670, 619, 880)

equals flash moving at over 26297.4309679 times the speed of light.

Now i'm no mathematician and my math may be wrong but you get the point.

That's nice,,, But running fast is not going to stop the Silver Surfer who can move that speed as well.

@Mr_Explicit1: It means Flash will run circles around, and then speed steal Surfer. If you really think Surfer is on Wally's speed level give me some scans so i can believe you.

Cosmic awareness, Strength Augmentation,FTL Speed, Astral Plane dominance, Matter Manipulation, Energy Projection, can Create Black Holes, Durability to survive a Black Hole, can create Black holes, has survived flying through the sun and I could go on. Flash has nothing on SS. He's durable enough to survive IMP's and there isn't enough evidence that Flash could speed steal someone with the power cosmic. Not to mention how many times has SS started on the ground. Bloodlusted SS kills both before they know what happened. Flash is extremely powerful but not on SS level, fanboyism aside if you break it down logically without bias SS is clearly more powerful. Flash is more popular as a character but that doesn't translate to a victory.

@Lone_Wolf_and_Cub said:

Cosmic awareness, Strength Augmentation,FTL Speed, Astral Plane dominance, Matter Manipulation, Energy Projection, can Create Black Holes, Durability to survive a Black Hole, can create Black holes, has survived flying through the sun and I could go on. Flash has nothing on SS. He's durable enough to survive IMP's and there isn't enough evidence that Flash could speed steal someone with the power cosmic. Not to mention how many times has SS started on the ground. Bloodlusted SS kills both before they know what happened. Flash is extremely powerful but not on SS level, fanboyism aside if you break it down logically without bias SS is clearly more powerful. Flash is more popular as a character but that doesn't translate to a victory.

There's also no evidence he couldn't so it applies vice versa. Saying that he couldn't would be a long shot. Flash can move faster than both of his opponents here have ever shown to be moving and you still underestimate him. *Sigh* Ftl speed? How about 2000 times FTL Speed. I believe that Superman got knocked out by 1 IMP punch (Which has the power of an exploding white dwarf star). 1000 of those should send Surfer on his ass.

@SpideyPresence

Silver Surfer can do EVERYTHING Flash can do plus MORE. Silver Surfer can easily beat Wally West.

Team 2 wins this rather in a CurbStomp.

Thor's hammer can also travel in speeds faster that light. Thor can beat Martian Manhunter with no problem at all , plus he's resistant to Telepathy.

And Flash can't beat Thor when his hammer can do A LOT.

Silver Surfer can solo this battle as well.

@SpideyPresence I'll just agree to disagree. I already named enough reasons why Flash couldn't beat SS. DC emphasizes speed more than Marvel does. With that said speed wouldn't be enough to beat SS. He has way to many options in the power department and you can't honestly believe Flash Durability is greater than SS. All SS needs to do is hot Flash once an he's dead. This SS bloodlusted, not his peaceful in character self. I wouldn't be surprised if Norrin could negate Flash speed steal due to cosmic awareness(what if SS can tap into the speedforce, Bats found a way to temporarily with the insider suit, don't see why someone with the power cosmic couldn't). I also don't agree that Flash is 1000's times faster than SS. I'll never change my mind until someone gives me concrete evidence that Flash can consistently beat characters of equal level to SS. Btw using Supes as something impressive due to IMp's to the face, SS>>>>>Supes all day.

@Vouile said:

@SpideyPresence

Silver Surfer can do EVERYTHING Flash can do plus MORE. Silver Surfer can easily beat Wally West.

Team 2 wins this rather in a CurbStomp.

Thor's hammer can also travel in speeds faster that light. Thor can beat Martian Manhunter with no problem at all , plus he's resistant to Telepathy.

And Flash can't beat Thor when his hammer can do A LOT.

Silver Surfer can solo this battle as well.

And there you go completely ignoring everything i have said.

Silver Surfer is nowhere. I repeat Nowhere close to Flash in terms of Speed. Flash can steal all of his opponent's kinetic energy away from them and if he chooses add it to his. Silver Surfer wouldn't even be able to think. Give me a scan of Surfer doing something similar. How many times do i have to say FTL is nowhere near Flash's level in speed.

Please post scans of Thor resisting telepathy from a telepath of John's level.

@SpideyPresence: Thor literally resisted P5 Emma Frost not a month ago. That is one of the most powerful telepaths in MU empowered by the Phoenix Force.

Also just because Flash is faster does not mean he wins, if Flash always beat every opponent that he was faster than I would agree with you.

Also SS can use the Power Cosmic, which is virtually limitless to speed himself up this means he should be able to keep up his speed even through a speed steal.

SS is plenty fast enough to hold his own. Plus if he flies high enough Flash can't touch him anyway.

@Man_of_Miracles said:

@SpideyPresence: Thor literally resisted P5 Emma Frost not a month ago. That is one of the most powerful telepaths in MU empowered by the Phoenix Force.

Also just because Flash is faster does not mean he wins, if Flash always beat every opponent that he was faster than I would agree with you.

Also SS can use the Power Cosmic, which is virtually limitless to speed himself up this means he should be able to keep up his speed even through a speed steal.

SS is plenty fast enough to hold his own. Plus if he flies high enough Flash can't touch him anyway.

Can i get some scans of Thor resisting Emma please?

Also Flash usually doesn't beat every character who he's faster than for the sake of the plot. I can't stress this enough. No one would want to read a comic like that. Realistically a man who can run significantly faster than light speed should be able to defeat his opponents before they can react. The same apply to Surfer and Thor's fights.

Also the power cosmic won't be able to boost Surfer up because the surfer wouldn't even be able to think it up. Flash would also steal the speed of his thought.

SS can move far faster than the speed of light, you can find scans of that in pretty much every SS thread.

Scans of Flash stealing the speed from someone's mind?

read the caption at the top of the scan.

@Man_of_Miracles said:

SS can move far faster than the speed of light, you can find scans of that in pretty much every SS thread.

Scans of Flash stealing the speed from someone's mind?

read the caption at the top of the scan.

I never said surfer couldn't do that but he still has no feats that put him near Flash at all. Here is Flash stealing inertia's speed. It would take him 1000 years to blink.

Here's just another scan of Flash boasting about how he could steal Superman's speed

@SpideyPresence: Do you have any scans of Flash speed stealing someone on SS level?

@Man_of_Miracles: speed is the most valued state here on the battle forums. it doesn't matter how many plot device powers surfer can pull out of his ass when he cant react fast enough to use them.

even if surfer could survive against flash [which he can't] but even if he could, he won't survive against martian and flash at the same time. thor is the weak link in this fight and will be the first to die.

@killlerfancehosue:

1. You are being derogatory it isn't needed.

2. Speed is not always the most valuable thing.

3. SS has plenty of power without plot devices

4. Show me Flash beating an opponent of SS's level.

5. SS would manhandle MM.

6. Thor would do just fine against MM for a time. He would probably lose, but it wouldn't be immediate.

@Man_of_Miracles said:

@killlerfancehosue:

1. You are being derogatory it isn't needed.

2. Speed is not always the most valuable thing.

3. SS has plenty of power without plot devices

4. Show me Flash beating an opponent of SS's level.

5. SS would manhandle MM.

6. Thor would do just fine against MM for a time. He would probably lose, but it wouldn't be immediate.

1. I'm speaking facts which ARE needed

2. Most of the time it is

3. Sure, but alot of them are plot devices

4. Show me Surfer being someone of Flashes level. See what I did there?

5. He'd lost against Martian and Flash at the same time

6. Not really, he may last a minute or 2 before Martian sends him to Valhalla.

@Man_of_Miracles said:

@SpideyPresence: Do you have any scans of Flash speed stealing someone on SS level?

An old aged Jay Garrick who is the slowest of the Flash's did it to Supes who is near SS's level of speed (Trying to find the scan). Inertia is the clone of Bart Allen who is FTL.

@killlerfancehosue:

1. You are speaking you opinion not facts, believe it or not there is a difference

2. But not in a match where the person has every other conceivable advantage.

3. Not really. he uses incredibly powerful abilities fairly regularly. If you can show an example of these plot devices that would be great.

4. Not really because SS has beaten plenty of fast people, and plenty of people who are far above Flash in every category but speed. It is simply known fact that MU does not have a speedster like Flash.

5. Maybe, kind of depends how fast he kills MM, or what state they are in by the time he is fighting both.

6. I would like to know how that would happen. Thor is plenty, durable, strong, fast, not to mention he has a myriad of different attacks at his disposal. Also if you are going to say TP as a way to beat him, he has shown to be resistant to TP before and especially recently.

@SpideyPresence: I am talking about someone SS's level of power not speed. Superman could not give himself more speed. SS can through use of the Power Cosmic.

@Man_of_Miracles said:

@killlerfancehosue:

1. You are speaking you opinion not facts, believe or not there is a difference

2. But not in a match where the person has every other conceivable advantage.

3. Not really. he uses incredibly powerful abilities fairly regularly. If you can show an example of these plot devices that would be great.

4. Not really because SS has beaten plenty of fast people, and plenty of people who are far above Flash in every category but speed. It is simply known fact that MU does not have a speedster like Flash.

5. Maybe, kind of depends how fast he kills MM, or what state they are in by the time he is fighting both.

6. I would like to know how that would happen. Thor is plenty, durable, strong, fast, not to mention he has a myriad of different attacks at his disposal. Also if you are going to say TP as a way to beat him, he has shown to be resistant to TP before and especially recently.

1. I'm speaking facts period. Weather you like them or not

2. In every match, again it doesn't matter how many advantages Surfer has. Speed comes first, speed kills, Surfer can't use his physical strength or 91232553 powers if he can't get them off before getting beaten to death

3. Right well I'm not going to go further into this since we're not going to agree and it's not relevant here

4. Irrelevant, unless Surfer can react to Flash, he dies.

5. No, not maybe. Surfer would get massacred by Flash alone without adding a more powerful telepath with tons of versatility. Saying Surfer will fight them both is being nice since he won't survive against Flash solo

6. Mind rape, you're scan from AvX is PIS, Moondragon has controlled Thor, Thor's been MC'd on other occassions too. Thor is no where near as Fast as Martian is either

@Man_of_Miracles said:

@SpideyPresence: I am talking about someone SS's level of power not speed. Superman could not give himself more speed. SS can through use of the Power Cosmic.

Power has nothing to do with speed stealing. Also how will surfer gain speed through the power cosmic if he can't even think that he wants more speed. His reactions would be as slow as his movement.

@killlerfancehosue:

1. *Whether, What about what you said is a fact?

2. So you are saying Flash would win against anyone he is faster than then?

3. True

4. He can react to Flash, he has at least lightspeed reaction time.

5. MM can do anything TP wise to SS, he is unbeatable on the astral plain and has shrugged off more powerful psychics that MM. (Moondragon with the mind crystal just to provide one example)

6. He has resisted other TP attacks before, also prove how it is PIS, we can't say that because Thor may prove to be that resistant to TP from now on. Also Thor has fought people with MM level speed before, he will be fine. I still think he loses, but he will do just fine.

I believe that Team 2 wins.

@SpideyPresence: It may, there is no Speed Force in MU and no Power Cosmic in DCU, so saying that Flash definitely steals all of SS's speed before he knows what is going on and he can't give himself more speed is speculation at best.

@SpideyPresence:

Also power has to do with everything, there are a TON of characters which aren't effected by certain abilities because they are a certain level of power.

@kiehsueoo:

2. So he can beat. Darkseid, Galactus, Spectre, Thanos, Odin, Imperiex etc? because those are all character slower than Flash that can be harmed physically.

4. SS could anything including his reaction time with the Power Cosmic. Also I am pretty sure it is billion times faster not a trillion, but I get your point.

6. That has been identified a million times as PIS, its on literally every thread about MM as PIS. The fact that SS can block even the highest level telepaths all day is not PIS.