How does MMH fair against Mjolnir? Couldn't Mjolnir affect him?
It can hurt him as IIRC thor was able to hurt vision while intangible.
That said martian manhunter is ridiculously versatile. He is faster, his healing factor makes his extremely hard to put down, and thor has no answer to having the Martians hand rematerialized in his brain.
@jashro44: Of course he could phase through Thor, but...so what? Thor's been stabbed through the heart before, and kept fighting. Mjolnir would be able to hurt the intangible form anyway, and even if he's faster, Thor's not slow. For every showing of him having trouble with streets, there's one to go along of him slamming heralds.
Even at Manhunter's most versatile, Thor is more so. Silver Surfer is possibly the only more versatile hero than Thor.
If Thor really wants to, he opens up a portal to a star. That would be that.
Of course he could phase through Thor, but...so what?
If he rematerialized his hands in thors brain, thor dies....At least until I can see evidence of thor resisting such an attack. Keep in mind this isn't the same thing as thor being punched in the brain.
Thor's been stabbed through the heart before, and kept fighting.
He doesn't have to rematerialized his heart. Thor has lots of vital organs.
Mjolnir would be able to hurt the intangible form anyway,
Mjolnir would sure, but the hammer has to connect. Thors lightning, fist, etc would not. Its still a pretty big edge.
and even if he's faster, Thor's not slow. For every showing of him having trouble with streets, there's one to go along of him slamming heralds.
The reason thor is considered slow on comicvine isn't because street levelers dodge him. Its because while there dodging him Thor comments on how fast they are. Tagging a fast person or dodging a fast person isn't considered a feat because writers do ignore speed quite often in comics, however when you have thor and other characters commenting that thor isn't fast its clear the writer intends it to be a low showing.
Example is wolverine vs thor. Thor stated multiple times that wolverine was faster then he is.
Its dialogue like the circle bits that we consider thor slow.Thor tagging fast characters doesn't really prove thor is fast because we don't know how fast silver surfer/gladiator/etc. were moving. Wolverine dancing around thor is a low end speed showing because not only does wolverine dodge him but thor comments that Wolverine is faster then him, and we know wolverine isn't on the martians level of speed.
With that said I do consider thor to be faster then wolverine because I agree he does have other high end feats. But once you weigh his high end and low end feats the Martian has a pretty big speed edge.
Even at Manhunter's most versatile, Thor is more so. Silver Surfer is possibly the only more versatile hero than Thor.
Thor does have a lot of powers but you have to be able to explain how those powers help him win here.
If Thor really wants to, he opens up a portal to a star. That would be that.
Assuming he receives the chance to do so....Manhunter will all ready be attacking him in the process.
He'd have a Mjolnir thoroughly embedded in his face if he tried the instakill.
Thor's survived being pierced multiple times. By someone who lives to kill gods no less. Not to mention MM isn't going to just be feeling Thor up. Not outside his dreams anyway.
Not how it works. At at all,actually. You taking low showings and lip service, and making them cancel out Thor's feats of tagging and slamming high end speedsters? W.T.F. lol. They weren't moving slow, that's for sure:
That being one example. Thor's at least on par with speedsters in reaction time. His entire career is built around being able to hang with guys considered faster than him. Him not splattering a meta's brains out with his speed, is not indicative of him being slow. And if that's the believe on ComicVine, it's wrong. In the same scan you posted, we see Thor catching Wolverine's ankle. His ankle lmao. That comic was full on retarded. "Too fast, I better grab the fastest moving part of his body."
With pleasure. Thor can attune his lightning to hurt phased beings:
You've seen the visions scan,also. It put vision out. There's no reason for Thor to remove the hammer either. He could actually open a portal then and there, in the Martian's chest. That's if he doesn't open the large on while MM sputters on the floor of course.
He'd have a Mjolnir thoroughly embedded in his face if he tried the instakill.
Unlike vision MM has an amazing healing factor.
Thor's survived being pierced multiple times. By someone who lives to kill gods no less. Not to mention MM isn't going to just be feeling Thor up. Not outside his dreams anyway.
Not sure why you keep bringing up piercing damage.
Not how it works. At at all,actually. You taking low showings and lip service, and making them cancel out Thor's feats of tagging and slamming high end speedsters? W.T.F. lol. They weren't moving slow, that's for sure:
Thats exactly how if works actually. We weigh showings. You should read the battle forum rules particularly the what you can use section.
Things that aren’t canon are not used in battles unless otherwise stated by the creator of the thread. For things that are canon, an understanding of the character as a whole helps determine what they can do in fights. For example, one time feats, crossover feats, powers/abilities that haven’t been used in a long time (but haven’t been specifically removed) are not to be dismissed out of hand, but they should be weighed against regular appearances and displays of abilities. Don’t just use a character’s best showings to determine what they can do, and don’t just use their worst showings to limit them.
They state showings should be weighed together. We don't use high end feats, and we don't use low end feats, we take the 2 and average them out. Thats how it has always been. As for your scan of thor tagging hyperion:
That being one example. Thor's at least on par with speedsters in reaction time. His entire career is built around being able to hang with guys considered faster than him.
Tagging fast people isn't a speed feat. Again there is a different between tagging someone who is fast and stating someone is faster then you. The battle forum rules explain it under the PIS/CIS section. As for your hyperion scan:
I realize the Hyperion here is different then the one thor tagged but he is likely still fast enough to kill cap before he can react. Yet a possessed hyperion going for a killing blow couldn't kill cap. This is what I am talking about. Just because Cap reacted to Hyperion here doesn't mean he is anywhere near Hyperions speed. We know Hyperion was moving at bluring speeds but beyond that we have no idea how fast he was moving. And cap has reacted to plenty of characters faster then him to, doesn't mean he can react to martian manhunter.
Him not splattering a meta's brains out with his speed, is not indicative of him being slow. And if that's the believe on ComicVine, it's wrong. In the same scan you posted, we see Thor catching Wolverine's ankle. His ankle lmao. That comic was full on retarded. "Too fast, I better grab the fastest moving part of his body."
He grabbed a random part of wolverine body and it just so happened to be his ankle. Pretty sure wolverine was leaping at that moment which is why he grabbed the ankle. At least thats how I interpret that moment.
With pleasure. Thor can attune his lightning to hurt phased beings:
You've seen the visions scan,also. It put vision out. There's no reason for Thor to remove the hammer either. He could actually open a portal then and there, in the Martian's chest. That's if he doesn't open the large on while MM sputters on the floor of course.
Thanks for the scan of thor altering his lightning.
The issue is that vision never had a chance to rematerialized his hand. Thor even states hat vision solidifying his hand would have harmed him. Martian manhunter is a lot more durable then vision meaning him solidifying his hand will do much more damage. And you agreed MM is faster so he is likely to win the quick draw in this case and solidify his hand before thor stick his hammer in him.
His HF has failed more than enough times to believe that it would help him here more than slightly. Thor doesn't need to stop hitting him once his phased form has been disrupted.
Because it's appropriate for the argument. Obviously. He's having things shoved into his organs. What's the difference between that and a solidifying hand? They're both doing the damage.
You'd better watch your retorts, you just agreed that you're using low showings and lip service to override the feats Thor has under his belt through his entire career.
"Not how it works. At at all,actually. You taking low showings and lip service, and making them cancel out Thor's feats of tagging and slamming high end speedsters?"
"Thats exactly how if works actually."
The rules only state to use averages, which I'm doing. Thor has never failed to tackles the fastest of the fast.They're not saying use low showings, which is what the Wolverine vs Thor comic was. Feats will always cancel words out.
It's not a speed feat to tag someone? You think about what you said there for a moment. I wouldn't accept that even if the rules did say it, because it's wrong. Thor's reaction time is what allows him to react so well to the speedsters. So you saying that reacting to super speed is not actually a speed feat...is as ridiculous as it sounds I'm afraid.
Mind controlled hyperion. MC tends to skew their showings. Even so, Cap also has an amazing history of speed. Why is he being downplayed as to being slow? It's like when people say that he's peak human yet can throw his shield so hard it rips tanks apart.
You can't prove that. He grabbed the ankle, which is the point. It's what Wolverine was using to scurry around give him problems with.That also shows how one sided the fight should have been, but wasn't due to plot. Thor could've easily tossed Wolverine vertically, then splattered him with Mjolnir.
No problem.
That's because Thor is fast. Even if MM beats him to the draw, Thor can endure and return the favor. It takes more than internal damage to put Thor down. After which, lightning does more damage, and Mjolnir ends it.
Even if MMH goes all out, phasing, speed, invisibility, under these stips, that would make Thor use teleportation, energy sensing, and dimension ripping storms, attuned to the manhunters form no less. It's his fight to lose.
@fernando072295reborn: Martian Manhunter could remove body parts from Thor if he felt like doing so. I doubt Thor would last long without a Brian or Heart and Martian Manhunter's has an excellent healing factor.
@fernando072295reborn: Please hit the reply button next time. This is a big forum and I am not always at my computer.
His HF has failed more than enough times to believe that it would help him here more than slightly. Thor doesn't need to stop hitting him once his phased form has been disrupted.
You realize his healing factor is on par with lobo's right? He isn't going down to a hammer through the chest....
Reforming his body in the middle of a volcano...Keep in mind he does this while surrounded by fire.
Because it's appropriate for the argument. Obviously. He's having things shoved into his organs. What's the difference between that and a solidifying hand? They're both doing the damage.
Having someones hand solidify in your organ and being stabbed are 2 different forms of damage. In comics there are different forms of durability. Example would be wonder woman, she can take a punch from superman yet she can be harmed by bullets. Having someone solidify there hands in your chest is not the same thing as being stabbed.
You'd better watch your retorts, you just agreed that you're using low showings and lip service to override the feats Thor has under his belt through his entire career.
"Not how it works. At at all,actually. You taking low showings and lip service, and making them cancel out Thor's feats of tagging and slamming high end speedsters?"
"Thats exactly how if works actually."
If these low showings are consistent we use them. In thors case it sadly is. There are other examples I could post. Its been debated on the vine a ridiculous amounts of time. If you want a better understanding of the argument why thor is slow I recommend you read this thread where the subject is debated in detail:
The rules only state to use averages, which I'm doing. Thor has never failed to tackles the fastest of the fast.They're not saying use low showings, which is what the Wolverine vs Thor comic was. Feats will always cancel words out.
I'm sorry how is thor saying he can't hit wolverine lip service? Its coming from his thoughts and this is backed up by the fact Logan was dancing around him and tagging him....As for him failing to tag the fastest of the fast as I said above there are other instances he has commented that he has a hard time tagging street levelers....
It's not a speed feat to tag someone? You think about what you said there for a moment. I wouldn't accept that even if the rules did say it, because it's wrong. Thor's reaction time is what allows him to react so well to the speedsters. So you saying that reacting to super speed is not actually a speed feat...is as ridiculous as it sounds I'm afraid.
No because characters don't always use there advantages for the sake of plot. Everyone gets tagged and reacts to speedsters in a comic. It happens all the time. Unless it is stated on panel how fast they were going, or if you have some evidence as to how fast they are moving then these feats typically get dismissed.
Mind controlled hyperion. MC tends to skew their showings. Even so, Cap also has an amazing history of speed. Why is he being downplayed as to being slow? It's like when people say that he's peak human yet can throw his shield so hard it rips tanks apart.
There is no evidence Hyperion was being slowed down in suepioer team up #1. If you can prove Carrion was slowing down his movements then sure. As to why cap is being down played in speed do you honestly consider him any where near the speed of someone like martian manhunter or hyperion? I believe cap is enhanced but he isn't that fast.
You can't prove that. He grabbed the ankle, which is the point. It's what Wolverine was using to scurry around give him problems with.That also shows how one sided the fight should have been, but wasn't due to plot. Thor could've easily tossed Wolverine vertically, then splattered him with Mjolnir.
I can't prove that wolverine jumped? Both his feet are off the ground and when thor throws him his arm moves down ward instead of upward so we know thor didn't lift him off the ground. As for why he didn't toss him vertically thor wasn't trying to hurt him....He was trying to snap wolverine out of mind control because he knows wolverine is a hero. He probably was just trying to lob him and toss him away with enough force to incapacitate...
That's because Thor is fast. Even if MM beats him to the draw, Thor can endure and return the favor. It takes more than internal damage to put Thor down. After which, lightning does more damage, and Mjolnir ends it.
Even if MMH goes all out, phasing, speed, invisibility, under these stips, that would make Thor use teleportation, energy sensing, and dimension ripping storms, attuned to the manhunters form no less. It's his fight to lose.
Anything stopping Martian manhunter from just opening a hole in his chest with his shape shifting powers?Even if Thor does shove Mjolnir in him he can use his shape shifting powers to move away. And does thor have any counter for MM just shrinking down to the size of a blood vessel, flying thors body and smashing his internal?
Here is Manhunter entering someone starro infested bloodstream...I don' see why he can't do the same to thor.
To be honest Pre-Flaspoint Martian Manhunter would defeat Thor, but New 52 would lose. I do think Pre-Flashpoint can be a very good battle though if T/P isn't used.
Of course, never said the hammer would be the end of it. But this would:
You see that little glow Thor had left from when he overexerted himself? That little glow knocked out the creap of the healing factor crop, Hulk.
Imagine Thor hitting Manhunter with something half that powerful, after his hammer stuns him.
And I would post one for every low showing. Masterson having trouble with spider man, Thor having trouble with mongoose, etc. Thor's also countered gladiator and nailed a speeding silver surfer. He trumps the low showings on a regular basis.
Because it's obviously not true. He reacted to Wolverine in the same comic, caught him by the ankle for Christ's sake. Yet he's dodging Thor's "fiercest blows!" No. It's a ridiculous plot ridden comic only made because someone said "Hey, know what we should do? Hulk vs Thor! No wait Hulk vs Wolverine! No....THOR VS WOLVERINE!" And the sheer amount of times that it gets used as evidence that Thor has trouble with streets is astonishing. Does he? Yes, due to plot. He's also beat daredevil to the punch, while mindcontrolled no less, but no one brings that up because it's exactly what Thor should be able to do.
Not the amount of times Thor has. Thor's history is built on hitting characters deemed faster: Hyperion, gladiator, silver surfer, quicksilver, Sentry, etc, etc. All of whom have used speed on him by the way. Notable speed, I'm not talking about an exchange of blows. Yet this gets dismissed? I don't think so.
As per his power set? No. But via feats, he's been doing stuff like that his entire career.
No I mean you can't prove Thor was going for some random part of Wolverine. I think it's clear that he was aiming for a part not near his claws, even if it was the fastest moving part of his body. There is no explanation for it, Thor let a nasty lightning bolt off on Wolverine, he knew he wasn't going to kill him and the fight would've ended much sooner without plot. The whole comic was meh, and the fight was PIS. For both of them by the way. Wolverine failed to cut Thor with a stab when he easily did it with slashing.
Because Mjolnir would stun him. Just like it stunned Vision. And even if he shrunk and started doing damage from the inside, Thor would end the fight then and there. I don't have the scan handy, though I'll try to find it, but Thor's radiated lightning through himself to course through himself before. At his size, it should absolutely devastate if not straight up kill the tiny Martian.
Thor could also just point at him and teleport Jonn into a sun if he felt like it.
He'd have a Mjolnir thoroughly embedded in his face if he tried the instakill.
Unlike vision MM has an amazing healing factor.
Thor's survived being pierced multiple times. By someone who lives to kill gods no less. Not to mention MM isn't going to just be feeling Thor up. Not outside his dreams anyway.
Not sure why you keep bringing up piercing damage.
Sorry for intervening. But he's going to get shocked if he tried to phase through Thor. Mjolnir doesn't need to touch him to be able to do it. Mjolnir releases mystical energy that would protect Thor. Even if he has better healing factor than Vision, he wouldn't heal from it right away, that would buy Thor some time to hit MM for a while.
Thor survived being impaled through his heart and several vital organs and just kept fighting as nothing happened.
Gorr (the one Thor was fighting in these scans) was using a special weapon called All Black Necrosword made to kill gods. That would be the same as someone stabbing Superman with a kryptonite sword. And it was eating him from inside.
As for your scan of thor tagging hyperion:
That being one example. Thor's at least on par with speedsters in reaction time. His entire career is built around being able to hang with guys considered faster than him.
Tagging fast people isn't a speed feat. Again there is a different between tagging someone who is fast and stating someone is faster then you. The battle forum rules explain it under the PIS/CIS section. As for your hyperion scan:
I realize the Hyperion here is different then the one thor tagged but he is likely still fast enough to kill cap before he can react. Yet a possessed hyperion going for a killing blow couldn't kill cap. This is what I am talking about. Just because Cap reacted to Hyperion here doesn't mean he is anywhere near Hyperions speed. We know Hyperion was moving at bluring speeds but beyond that we have no idea how fast he was moving. And cap has reacted to plenty of characters faster then him to, doesn't mean he can react to martian manhunter.
Him not splattering a meta's brains out with his speed, is not indicative of him being slow. And if that's the believe on ComicVine, it's wrong. In the same scan you posted, we see Thor catching Wolverine's ankle. His ankle lmao. That comic was full on retarded. "Too fast, I better grab the fastest moving part of his body."
He grabbed a random part of wolverine body and it just so happened to be his ankle. Pretty sure wolverine was leaping at that moment which is why he grabbed the ankle. At least thats how I interpret that moment.
Captain America didn't tagged or reacted to Hyperion, he just put a shield above his head to protect himself and waited for Hyperion strikes. Thor, on the other hand countered Hyperion attempt to blitz with a blow (Hyperion tried to blitz him) . Hyperion was right on his face when Thor reacted to him. While Hyperion was far away from Cap when he saw Hyperion charging at him.
Thor isn't a slow brute as people think. You know that Loki is said to be faster (or at least as fast) than a thought, right? Well Thor once gave a beating on both Loki and Fenrir at the same time. Note that Thor hit them so fast that his hands started smoldering (note also that Fenrir was attacking him by surprise, Thor just connected a blow before Fenrir could). Thor was even weakened at this time (and without Mjolnir).
Can someone explain to me, outside of comic PIS, how Thor overcomes MM's telepathy in conjunction with his superior speed. And incidentally J'onn has shown he uses his phasing in combat just fine.
Can someone explain to me, outside of comic PIS, how Thor overcomes MM's telepathy in conjunction with his superior speed. And incidentally J'onn has shown he uses his phasing in combat just fine.
There really is little argument in favor of Thor.
Rachel and Emma each of them with 1/5 of Phoenix Force weren't able to do anything with Thor. I don't see how MM's TP would able to. MM isn't that much faster than Thor. How would MM overcome Thor's AOE attacks? Since Thor calibrates his lightnings and Mjolnir to hit intangible people. Mijolnir protects Thor to phasing too, so... not going to work.
Thor could use those AOE attacks and MM wouldn't have a chance:
@alessandro_souzamarques: Not quite my friend, but thank you. The scan I was looking for is actually one of Thor surging the lightning through his own body:
Loading Video...
Shown at 1:57, but I cannot, for the life of me, find it. Weird. That's what I get for being unorganized though.
I'm not saying MMH wins for sure, I'm just saying his versatility will come in handy and give Thor quite a lot of trouble.
Pre 52 MMH vs JLA and New Gods (Superman, Wonder Woman, Plastic Man, Flash, Orion, Steel, Aquaman, and Big Barda) Owning Ultraman (Supes Earth 3)This has no relevance, just for fun. MMH picking up some humanity.
Its funny how Martian stomps thor but surfer couldn't. Thor will smack the shit out of jonn , his telepathy is deciding factor whether he uses or not decides if he winsor loses.
thor is stronger and more durable and more skilled and more versatile.
but none of that matters if he can't tag intangible people and manhunter's telepathy is enough to get through his shields easily so he will only have a little time to do it.
Thor should win here via versatility and raw strength advantage. J’onn can be overwhelmed with blunt force, and I fully believe that Thor can provide on that front. Thor should also be able to react to MMH as he has reacted to things that go as fast or even faster than J’onn before. That added onto Thor’s durability should grant him the win.
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