#1 Posted by randomcharachter (323 posts) - - Show Bio

Its a pure martial arts battle no Super powers, energy blasts and stuff is not allowed.They are all equal in physical power.

Ryu

Lui Kang

Goku

Iron fist

Akuma

Terry Bogard

Ra's al Ghul

#2 Posted by Shikarenji (1688 posts) - - Show Bio

goku wins . even though they are all equalized in power goku's speed is way faster than any of them.

#3 Posted by oceanmaster21 (7855 posts) - - Show Bio

goku or akuma the others are kinda street strength may e city strength but goku is physical strength he can lift 186 thousand tons thats alot but akuma isnt far behind him so one of those two but if thwy didnt even have strength then ras alghul wud take this

#4 Edited by Frocharocha (2265 posts) - - Show Bio

Goku wins with easy. He's the best martial arts master since the history of ever in the fiction lol.

#5 Posted by Wardemon32 (4149 posts) - - Show Bio

@frocharocha: All Goku does is throw regular punches and kicks. Nothing fancy at all. And he has NEVER won a fight based on Martial Arts alone but power. He could be more skilled but less powerful and he would lose, something Martial Arts teaches you how to handle. So you can't say he wins with ease or he's the best.

#6 Edited by Wardemon32 (4149 posts) - - Show Bio

Ra's Al Ghul probably wins. Had thousands of years of training, taught Batman and leader of the Leauge Of Assasins, some of the best fighters in DC period.

#7 Posted by CalebHara (2329 posts) - - Show Bio

In a battle of pure skill, i would give it to Danny.

#8 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (16713 posts) - - Show Bio

@frocharocha: All Goku does is throw regular punches and kicks. Nothing fancy at all. And he has NEVER won a fight based on Martial Arts alone but power. He could be more skilled but less powerful and he would lose, something Martial Arts teaches you how to handle. So you can't say he wins with ease or he's the best.

Not sure how having raw power means he has less skills. You don't have to be weaker than your enemy to be a good martial artist.

#9 Edited by nickzambuto (13384 posts) - - Show Bio

Goku wins.

Not because of strength, or speed, or whatever. The OP clearly states they are all equal, I don't understand why some people think Goku is usually an exception to these rules.

No, Goku wins because he is a better martial artist. IMO at least.

#10 Posted by Wardemon32 (4149 posts) - - Show Bio

@princearagorn1:

I never said that. I'm saying he can't win a fight on Martial Arts, he only wins on power.

I never said since he has raw power he has less skill. I'm saying anytime someone comes in with more power than him(Vegeta, Buu, Cell, etc...) he can NEVER win off of his Martial Arts. He only wins from actual powers. So in the end, he's never won a fight from only martial arts and fighting skill and has only won when he was more powerful.

While Batman or Karate Kid is much weaker than their opponents and STILL win

#11 Edited by Theorder14 (1445 posts) - - Show Bio

@wardemon32: it's srsly hard to compare between the two because we're talking about characters who can blow up planets >.>

and i think Goku takes this because he have shown to adapt to different situations and styles.

Saying Goku wins only because of power is completely false lol, if u haven't noticed, Goku's style resembles bushido so i wouldn't say that he's only *throwing punches*

#12 Edited by THC (367 posts) - - Show Bio

@wardemon32 said:

@frocharocha: All Goku does is throw regular punches and kicks. Nothing fancy at all. And he has NEVER won a fight based on Martial Arts alone but power. He could be more skilled but less powerful and he would lose, something Martial Arts teaches you how to handle. So you can't say he wins with ease or he's the best.

sigh....

Proof?

#13 Edited by THC (367 posts) - - Show Bio

@wardemon32 said:

@princearagorn1:

I never said that. I'm saying he can't win a fight on Martial Arts, he only wins on power.

I never said since he has raw power he has less skill. I'm saying anytime someone comes in with more power than him(Vegeta, Buu, Cell, etc...) he can NEVER win off of his Martial Arts. He only wins from actual powers. So in the end, he's never won a fight from only martial arts and fighting skill and has only won when he was more powerful.

While Batman or Karate Kid is much weaker than their opponents and STILL win

Okay, Roshi was stronger than he was by far and he still stalemated him in the first world martial arts tournament.

Pamput could knock down brick walls with ease, equivalent to Goku's rock smashing feats, and Goku one-shotted him with a pressure point attack

Mercenary Tao was far stronger than Goku before his training with Korin, and afterwards Goku's technique was far superior to Tao's and he dominated him

Batman can bench press 1000 pounds. How many humans do you know that can bench press 1000 pounds? The martial arts masters he fights can not bench press 1000 pounds. Batman is "stronger" than them. Do you see DBZ fans claiming that Batman wins against them just because he can lift more? No, because in a fight, it's between two people. There are no rules or weight classes.

If one guy weighs 100 pounds and the other 200, it doesn't matter. Whoever comes out standing wins. Goku wins most of his fights because his speed and durability are superior to his opponent. And they are superior, because he has refined his technique and thus moves faster. He is more durable because he has trained harder.

I am getting the impression you are simply ignorant. Please prove me wrong with scans.

#14 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (16713 posts) - - Show Bio

@thc: @wardemon32: Ok, wait. Weren't dbz characters banned? we shouldn't be doing this. 0.0

#15 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (16713 posts) - - Show Bio

@wardemon32: That's because his enemies have good skills as well.. Putting kk against an opponent far stronger than he is, and nearly as skilled, he will die, too, specifically in a world where . Their enemy's level of power or skill doesn't affect their own. You're forgetting that he's still the same person who did a move which required a master martial artist years to train, with ease, outclassing many people in skill. Saying he won't win on skill just because he generally uses raw power is unfair, and biased.

#16 Posted by THC (367 posts) - - Show Bio

@princearagorn1 said:

@thc: @wardemon32: Ok, wait. Weren't dbz characters banned? we shouldn't be doing this. 0.0

They were banned because of people like him who are completely biased and ignorant and bring out the worst in DBZ fans through sheer trolling.

"goku only throws regular punches and kicks"

there is nothing stupider on this page

#17 Posted by Stronger (4948 posts) - - Show Bio

Either Ras or Danny.

#18 Edited by PrinceAragorn1 (16713 posts) - - Show Bio

@thc said:

@princearagorn1 said:

@thc: @wardemon32: Ok, wait. Weren't dbz characters banned? we shouldn't be doing this. 0.0

They were banned because of people like him who are completely biased and ignorant and bring out the worst in DBZ fans through sheer trolling.

"goku only throws regular punches and kicks"

there is nothing stupider on this page

Still, I'd follow the rule that' already in place. A cav, or blog thread on goku's skill could be the place..

#19 Posted by Name55555 (218 posts) - - Show Bio
#20 Posted by Wardemon32 (4149 posts) - - Show Bio

@thc: How was it stupid? That's straight facts. I can throw up a whole bunch of vids of him doing nothing special. You obviously don't know much about Martial Arts

  • Little to no flying kicks
  • No roundhouse kicks
  • Sweep kicks
  • Grapples
  • Not really much side kicks
  • Ancle locks
  • He has no form

Now he's the funny part about the vid you just put up, he fights INCREDIBLE slow and I can already see his faults in his fighting.

  1. He doesn't even put his hands up for defense while fighting
  2. His combo's consist of punching with his arm starting from teh point to his shoulders which would be an EASY, EASY block for a Martial Arts Master.
  3. At the beginning of teh fight he charged at the guy.(1:30), then at 1:31 he threw a wild punch which usually results in an open rib shot
  4. When he goes for a punch lol, he always puts one foot foward and does a straight punch and NEVER, EVER knows to curve if he knows he going to miss. If you ever took any type of classes or watch a lot of Martial Arts vids you would know that it is more effective to hit at the side rather than a straight punch because that would lead to a counter block(If the person is fast enough) and you will just be the one getting punched in the face.
  5. He waits like 2 secodns to throw another punch. He never throws any type of consistent combos.

Goku has WAYYY to much flaws in his fighting style. And one of the main ones is he has no technique,not timing, and no form. He basically keeps his hands to his sid the whole time and think he's going to just move his head two inches to the side and that would be a block. And when they do punch from the side they always, and I mean always pull ther arm all the way back.

Batman can bench press 1000 pounds. How many humans do you know that can bench press 1000 pounds? The martial arts masters he fights can not bench press 1000 pounds. Batman is "stronger" than them. Do you see DBZ fans claiming that Batman wins against them just because he can lift more? No, because in a fight, it's between two people. There are no rules or weight classes.

Well for one, just because someone can lift more doesn't mean their attacks would be hard. Force=Acelleration*Mass. It's not Force=Lifting Strength.

Now you said how many humans you know that can bench press 1000 punds. It's not like thats much of a leverage since he beats people like Bane, someone with Superstrength and is fast. And he lifts two tons, your point?

I never said ANYTHING about lifting power, you did. Know the diference before you say my claims are "stupid" which right about now all of yours are.

Batman beats people like Bane, someone who is stonger, fast, and has a lot of training to be named one of the best fighters in DC, and one of the best in the leauge of assasins. Batman isn't strogner nor can you say he's much faster than Bane, while bane is still mroe powerful. But how does Batman win again? Easy, skill.....

Now here's the typical fight with Goku. He's a "Martial Arts Master" and some guy comes along who's stronger, faster, more durable, but you CANT say he's more skilled. Now has Goku ever one in this scenario with fighting skill? No. He always gets kicked around until somehow he becoems more powerful and starts throing blast everywhere.

If one guy weighs 100 pounds and the other 200, it doesn't matter. Whoever comes out standing wins. Goku wins most of his fights because his speed and durability are superior to his opponent. And they are superior, because he has refined his technique and thus moves faster. He is more durable because he has trained harder.

When did I say ANYTHING with weight again??? Or when did I say weight mattered in a fight?

No he doesn't win the fight because his speed is superior, it's because he HAS to win at the end of the day. He usually to always wins with some powerful blast, something he can't use in this fight.

Now you said he wins because his speed and durability is superior. Everyone in this fight is the same and Batman has beaten people he was inferior to in terms of durability also, your point?

Oh wait, I see your point. The only way he ever wins a fight is if he's faster or stronger right???? LMAO IT'S SOOOOO FUNNY HOW YOU JUST PROVED MY POINT! He can only win is he is faster or stronger/ more powerful. Something most of these guys don't have to be, they just rely on skill.

Just like how Karate Kid is slower, weaker, less durable and he still canbeat Superman. Why can be beat him if he's weaker in about every category? BECAUSE HE HAS SKILL. Goku has to be "superior" in every category BUT skill to win a fight.

Now I'm pretty sure you get the concept because you subliminally but didn't realize you just projected that message out that I was trying to prove. But, I'll stop just so I wont make you even look more like an idiotbecause I'm a nice guy lmao. Just don't reply with any more stupidity.

@princearagorn1: OK, read what I said to make nthis guy look stupid and you'll get it. But let me just say something. Anytime Gouk starts his notorious fights he always starts out weaker but he still has his Martial Arts skill. That didn't go away at all. So what if he starts out weaker? He should still be able to win if he's so good. I mean

  • Batman does it
  • Karate Kid does it
  • Black Canary does it
  • Black Panther does it
  • Captain America does it
  • The rest of the Batfamily does it(Robin the 10 year old in short lmao)
  • And so many others I can list does this!

Goku always wins at the end where he REALLY get's more powerful. And I don't think you know what "Raw power" is. Raw Power isn't having Beams that heal you, raw power isn't taking everyones energy to make himself more powerful, raw power isn't having people backing him up all the time. And I don't think you know what biased means. Now I'm pretty sure I had to change someones mind with what I said up top. But explain, how was I being bias?

#21 Edited by Name55555 (218 posts) - - Show Bio

@wardemon32: you are just all talks. You do realize that everything you said is:

1) 100% questionable

2) ignoring a lot of facts, just to low-ball goku's style

3) Goku is NOT supposed to use karate, judo or 1 specific martial art style, so you can't criticise his moves because, for example, the guard you use for boxing is not good in TKD. You can't criticize his guard, his punches, his combos etc. as you have no idea of what kind of style he is using.

???

If it works it works.

Since you are no master, and even if you were you would be nowhere near their level, you really should talk about this stuff.

#22 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

Akuma or Iron Fist. Both of them had to be the best in MAs to gain super powers lol.

#23 Edited by Name55555 (218 posts) - - Show Bio

Ryu

#24 Posted by Wardemon32 (4149 posts) - - Show Bio

@name55555:

I'm not low-balling anyone. It's just that you guys are claiming that if Martial Arts is so great when it isn't. And what facts did I really ignore? I already heard all of what they had to say, but I also pointed out his flaws on why he would lose.

What do you mean he's not supposed use them? Martial arts is Martial Arts. You still can't get around how he has no form or how he charges or how he punches with his arm so far back. While these guys are trained to handle people who fight like that since they know Karate, Kickboxing, Jujit Su, Thai, Boxing, etc...

I also never said he was supposed to use 1 specific fighting style but it looks like he has none.

Alright I have no idea what he is using. Now you tell me. Because it seems to me it looks like just the standard way of fighting....

So what if I'm not a master? I never said I was so I don't know where your getting at. I know if Goku was fighting a master like the way he does he would get his a$$ kicked.

#25 Edited by tg1982 (2715 posts) - - Show Bio

Iron Fist, IMO. He had to defeat a dragon with just his H2H ability just to get his powers. To me that's impressive.

#26 Posted by Name55555 (218 posts) - - Show Bio

@name55555:

I'm not low-balling anyone. It's just that you guys are claiming that if Martial Arts is so great when it isn't. And what facts did I really ignore? I already heard all of what they had to say, but I also pointed out his flaws on why he would lose.

What do you mean he's not supposed use them? Martial arts is Martial Arts. You still can't get around how he has no form or how he charges or how he punches with his arm so far back. While these guys are trained to handle people who fight like that since they know Karate, Kickboxing, Jujit Su, Thai, Boxing, etc...

I also never said he was supposed to use 1 specific fighting style but it looks like he has none.

Alright I have no idea what he is using. Now you tell me. Because it seems to me it looks like just the standard way of fighting....

So what if I'm not a master? I never said I was so I don't know where your getting at. I know if Goku was fighting a master like the way he does he would get his a$$ kicked.

my point is that you don't know what you are talking about.

there could be like 1000 reasons for goku to attack that way... it could be a trap for his opponent, for example.

Like i said you are no master, and you don't know what style he is using so... you shouldn't criticize his moves. If, in the story, that master complimented him... it means that his moves were good, that's it!

#27 Posted by HereComesTheBoom_Headshot (321 posts) - - Show Bio

It's been stated in the Anime (and possibly Manga), that Goku has been trained by just about every martial arts master on Earth, and not only on Earth, but other planets, and even Gods (King Kai, Grand Kai, for examples).

#28 Edited by Wardemon32 (4149 posts) - - Show Bio

@name55555:

Lmao you sound so F**king ignorant. There could be 1000 reasons attacks like that? Stop wanking Goku and admit his flaws. Everyone and anyone who studies Martial Arts knows that if youre fighting like that agaisnt an experienced fighter you wouldn't land a lot of hits.

I honestly don't give af if the master complimented him. I know I'm not a master but I do know Martial Arts and I've seen masters fight, I know flaws when I see one.

Tell me the style he is using. The otehrs know plenty while it looks liek he's just using one. That style is called "Street Fighting" where you do nothing special but punches and kicks. How are you going to beat an opponent who knows the same+more? And some styles are better than others. All of the others are more versatile and I' pretty sure Ra knows all of Goku's martial arts(AKA punching wild and kicking) is slow lmao.

You don't knwo anything about Martial Arts obviously. Just shut up and keep going because you sound absolutely ridicilous.

#29 Posted by Name55555 (218 posts) - - Show Bio

@name55555:

Lmao you sound so F**king ignorant. There could be 1000 reasons attacks like that? Stop wanking Goku and admit his flaws. Everyone and anyone who studies Martial Arts knows that if youre fighting like that agaisnt an experienced fighter you wouldn't land a lot of hits.

I honestly don't give af if the master complimented him. I know I'm not a master but I do know Martial Arts and I've seen masters fight, I know flaws when I see one.

Tell me the style he is using. The otehrs know plenty while it looks liek he's just using one. That style is called "Street Fighting" where you do nothing special but punches and kicks. How are you going to beat an opponent who knows the same+more? And some styles are better than others. All of the others are more versatile and I' pretty sure Ra knows all of Goku's martial arts(AKA punching wild and kicking) is slow lmao.

You don't knwo anything about Martial Arts obviously. Just shut up and keep going because you sound absolutely ridicilous.

Hahaha fail.

So your comprehension of martial arts is really limited i see. You don't know the meaning of strategy. You don't set up traps for your opponent. i bet you are really bad at fighting.

#30 Posted by Nerx (15088 posts) - - Show Bio

Shun goku satsu is HAX

#31 Edited by NightwingX (117 posts) - - Show Bio

@name55555 said:

@wardemon32 said:

@name55555:

Lmao you sound so F**king ignorant. There could be 1000 reasons attacks like that? Stop wanking Goku and admit his flaws. Everyone and anyone who studies Martial Arts knows that if youre fighting like that agaisnt an experienced fighter you wouldn't land a lot of hits.

I honestly don't give af if the master complimented him. I know I'm not a master but I do know Martial Arts and I've seen masters fight, I know flaws when I see one.

Tell me the style he is using. The otehrs know plenty while it looks liek he's just using one. That style is called "Street Fighting" where you do nothing special but punches and kicks. How are you going to beat an opponent who knows the same+more? And some styles are better than others. All of the others are more versatile and I' pretty sure Ra knows all of Goku's martial arts(AKA punching wild and kicking) is slow lmao.

You don't knwo anything about Martial Arts obviously. Just shut up and keep going because you sound absolutely ridicilous.

Hahaha fail.

So your comprehension of martial arts is really limited i see. You don't know the meaning of strategy. You don't set up traps for your opponent. i bet you are really bad at fighting.

Goku learned sennin style when he trained under Roshi who was the most skilled in earth, trained under god and king kai etc and you claim he's only capable of *street fighting*? while Goku have clearly shown he can perform nerve strikes? hilarious

There's also his taskmaster like ability, he copied Roshi technique by just seeing it once. Goku also countered Roshi's drunken fist by adapting and come up with a style of his own. Saying his martial arts is only that of a street level is just wrong

Srsly, can tell me or show me scans how a *real master* fight? I practice martial arts myself so i rly like to see how real martial artist r supposed to fight

#32 Posted by Wardemon32 (4149 posts) - - Show Bio

@name55555: Actually no. I took boxing AND had training in Karate+Kick Boxing. And I'll be starting Muay Thai soon.

Alright tell me teh strategy, he is obviously getting slapped around so tell me the strategy lol. Tell me the strategy of doing a kick that reqires you to pull your foot so far back leaving your opponent to see the obvious kick or the same for punches. Tell me the strategy behind throwing a punch and waiting 2 seconds to throw another hit.

@nightwingx: K....now she me some scans of him using this great martial arts he claims to have. Did these styles he copied just deal with common kicks and punches?

It's still the fighting of how people do in the streets. Please tell me the difference:). And because he knows nerve points it makes him a canidate of winning or beyond street level? Lmao then I guess about 50% of scientist know martial arts and beat you. Why didn't he do that to bills? It actually happened to him and he had no counter lol.

Since you claim you practice martial arts you should know it's stupid to

  • Pull your arm back during a fight
  • Pull your leg back so far during a fight
  • Try to dodge by just moving your head two inches
  • Charge at your opponent.
  • Be stationary during a fight. They literally stand in ONE spot and throw the same punches and kicks.
  • Wait two seconds to throw another hit after you've been blocked WHILE you fist is still in his hands OR while your arm is on his.
  • Throw a straight punch all the time. I mean COME ON. He's already predictable within the first few seconds of the fight.
  • When he was fighting Uub he literally stood there with his fist on Uubs fist looking into each otheres eyes for about 30 seconds without doing ANYTHING!
  • I can keep going on and on...
#33 Posted by SonDeathEater (536 posts) - - Show Bio

@wardemon32: Bills is faster than Goku and the fact that his techniques are bc he learned them.

  • Dragon Ball Martial Arts - There are several martial arts mentioned in the anime series Dragon Ball, many of them studied by the protagonist, Son Goku. Most of the fighting styles and techniques in the series require the application of ki - life energy - to use. Only one who is trained in the art of ki control can use ki to fight.

o Kaio-ken (literally "fist of the gods") is the martial art taught by North Kaio to Son Goku during the year he spends dead. The primary focus of this fighting style is to remove one's internal limitations and allow a greater yet more-controlled flow of ki to exit the body.

+ The main technique, simply called kai-ou-ken, or King Kai Fist, which opens up the body's energy floodgates, giving the user a temporary yet immense boost in both speed and power. The user can even use multiple kaiō-ken in succession for further increases in power, but doing so does more and more damage to one's internal organs. Kaio-ken in use is signified by the body's ki aura changing from white to a deep, blood red in color.

Kame-Sennin Ryu is a style of martial arts discipline taught only by the

Kame-sennin ("Turtle Hermit"), Muten Roshi. The kame style is focused around

endurance and strength

What is that Ki/Chi/Life force thing?

According to Japanese tradition, every entity on our Earth has Ki, or a life force flowing through them. Some people's ki is stronger than others, etc. In Dragonball, Toriyama Akira has allowed his characters to wield their ki power to such an extent as large attacks (Kamehameha) and flying (Bukujutsu). It has always been believed in Japanese myth that these things were possible: Toriyama brought them to life through his Manga and drawings.

Unlike the other characters,GOku will utilize ki to his advantage bc he knows how to use it.Everyone has it.

Goku can mimic and adapt to any martial arts by instinct.Tien commented that his stance is flawless when he fought Cell.

He was beating Roshi by using more after images, countering drunken style with monkey style, countering and punching with rock, paper, scissor. They were around equal with Tenshinhan by power on the tournament, if you know that part, how Tenshinhan won... he later give the money(award) to Goku, because as he commented "I won with my luck, but I lost with my skill" or similar.

his fighting style b4 he fights

#34 Edited by Name55555 (218 posts) - - Show Bio

@wardemon32: so just because you can't understand something that you do not know, you automatically think it's wrong? you may be trained to fight, but you really need philosophy lessons.

Goku was already supposed to be a master in martial arts, how can you pretend to understand his moves? how can you think he never learned something that even you would know??

your logic is a failure.

You should really learn how to think, before how to fight.

(hah I'm talking like my master)

#35 Edited by NightwingX (117 posts) - - Show Bio

@wardemon32:@nightwingx: K....now she me some scans of him using this great martial arts he claims to have. Did these styles he copied just deal with common kicks and punches?

It's still the fighting of how people do in the streets. Please tell me the difference:). And because he knows nerve points it makes him a canidate of winning or beyond street level? Lmao then I guess about 50% of scientist know martial arts and beat you. Why didn't he do that to bills? It actually happened to him and he had no counter lolSince you claim you practice martial arts you should know it's stupid to

Pull your arm back during a fight

Pull your leg back so far during a fight

Try to dodge by just moving your head two inches

Charge at your opponent.

Be stationary during a fight. They literally stand in ONE spot and throw the same punches and kicks.

Wait two seconds to throw another hit after you've been blocked WHILE you fist is still in his hands OR while your arm is on his.

Throw a straight punch all the time. I mean COME ON. He's already predictable within the first few seconds of the fight.

When he was fighting Uub he literally stood there with his fist on Uubs fist looking into each otheres eyes for about 30 seconds without doing ANYTHING!

I can keep going on and on...

Dude, u do realise that there's a huge power difference for each villains Goku fights. not to mention their healing factor. Look at Cell and Buu, they would have died a long time ago if it weren't for their regen. Why he couldn't do that to Bills? It's DBZ we're talking about and MA isn't everything. There's lots of different ki techniques and energy beams in dbz universe. Should we compare Batman vs Bane and Goku vs Bills then?? See the diffrences? guess not since the latter is stronger than the former and they would surely pull the win by using their martial arts.

i seriously hope ur not watching the anime since i've only watched a couple of episode then dropped it.

Here, can u point exactly what's wrong in this fight maybe? while ur at it. show me scans of his flaws

#36 Edited by THC (367 posts) - - Show Bio

@wardemon32 said:

  • Little to no flying kicks

Obviously, DB characters have had little use for "flying" kicks since the vast majority can legitimately fly

  • No roundhouse kicks
  • Sweep kicks

Sweep kicks and roundhouse kicks are rarely used for the same reason as flying kicks. DB characters are not restricted to ground fighting.

  • Grapples
  • Not really much side kicks

This is the most common kick they use (countless times every fight) as it is by far the most applicable in a 1 on 1 fight in the air.

  • Ancle locks

An aspect of grappling... instantaneously settled with a kick to the opponent's stomach. Goku had every single bone in his body broken by Vegeta, and kept fighting. A joint lock wouldn't phase him at all.

  • He has no form

None that you would recognize, naturally, being from an entirely different planet and universe.

The first styles Goku would have learned would have been from his Grandpa Gohan, who was a world renowned expert fighter. Secondly he trained under Roshi and learned the Turtle Style. The Turtle Style teaches creating your own martial arts for your own body. So yes, you won't recognize his form, as it is completely unique to him.

Now he's the funny part about the vid you just put up, he fights INCREDIBLE slow and I can already see his faults in his fighting.

Goku has WAYYY to much flaws in his fighting style. And one of the main ones is he has no technique,not timing, and no form. He basically keeps his hands to his sid the whole time and think he's going to just move his head two inches to the side and that would be a block. And when they do punch from the side they always, and I mean always pull ther arm all the way back.

>implying you are an established martial arts critic?

What are your feats for martial arts? How many black belts and Wushu masters have you KO'd? I'm willing to bet zero.

I was only showing that video because you claimed "Goku only uses regular punches and kicks." Evidently your ridiculous claim is untrue, by one simple video of Kid Goku.

That is not a serious fight, so they are not fighting their best to defeat their opponent. Especially Mutaito, who is clearly not trying whatsoever.

  1. He doesn't even put his hands up for defense while fighting
  2. His combo's consist of punching with his arm starting from teh point to his shoulders which would be an EASY, EASY block for a Martial Arts Master.
  3. At the beginning of teh fight he charged at the guy.(1:30), then at 1:31 he threw a wild punch which usually results in an open rib shot
  4. When he goes for a punch lol, he always puts one foot foward and does a straight punch and NEVER, EVER knows to curve if he knows he going to miss. If you ever took any type of classes or watch a lot of Martial Arts vids you would know that it is more effective to hit at the side rather than a straight punch because that would lead to a counter block(If the person is fast enough) and you will just be the one getting punched in the face.
  5. He waits like 2 secodns to throw another punch. He never throws any type of consistent combos.

.

1. Keeping your hands up is foolish in martial arts open hand fighting. Boxing has rules that makes keeping your hands up as guards wise. You won't see anyone else other than a boxer fighting with their hands up as face-shields unless they're inexperienced street fighters.

2. Right, hence why Mutaito easily blocked his assaults. They were having an experimental sparring session. Quite different from a fight to the death.

3. Why are you blatantly ignoring the context of the fight? Mutaito was calmly sitting there, allowing Goku to attack him.

4. "he never curves his punches if he's going to miss" Never is a big word. You're going to have to provide a lot of proof for that claim.

Unless you're just referring to his fight with Mutaito, in which case your logic is dichotomous ("I didn't see him do it in his fight with Mutaito, therefore he can't"), and once again ignoring context.

5. "he waits like 2 seconds" ... it may have appeared to take that long

A little lesson in DB relativism:

Batman can bench press 1000 pounds. How many humans do you know that can bench press 1000 pounds? The martial arts masters he fights can not bench press 1000 pounds. Batman is "stronger" than them. Do you see DBZ fans claiming that Batman wins against them just because he can lift more? No, because in a fight, it's between two people. There are no rules or weight classes.

Well for one, just because someone can lift more doesn't mean their attacks would be hard. Force=Acelleration*Mass. It's not Force=Lifting Strength.

I never said ANYTHING about lifting power, you did. Know the diference before you say my claims are "stupid" which right about now all of yours are.

For one, just because someone can lift more does mean their attacks will hit hard. They will generate great power with their blows due to their strength. This is why Superman hits harder than the Flash. However, speed has just as much relevance to striking force. This is why the Flash can still hit incredibly hard despite lacking physical strength.

Luckily for Batman, he isn't lacking in speed or strength.

So Batman is just as fast, and about equally as skilled as martial artists, yet he can bench press 1000 pounds to their maybe 200+ at best.

As much as comic fanboys don't want to accept it, Batman being 5x stronger than his opponents has just as much relevance as when Goku is stronger than his opponents, if you want to make that argument.

Now you said how many humans you know that can bench press 1000 punds. It's not like thats much of a leverage since he beats people like Bane, someone with Superstrength and is fast. And he lifts two tons, your point?

Batman beats people like Bane, someone who is stonger, fast, and has a lot of training to be named one of the best fighters in DC, and one of the best in the leauge of assasins. Batman isn't strogner nor can you say he's much faster than Bane, while bane is still mroe powerful. But how does Batman win again? Easy, skill.....

Now here's the typical fight with Goku. He's a "Martial Arts Master" and some guy comes along who's stronger, faster, more durable, but you CANT say he's more skilled. Now has Goku ever one in this scenario with fighting skill? No. He always gets kicked around until somehow he becoems more powerful and starts throing blast everywhere.

Batman's strength is a huge leverage against opponents who are weaker than him, such as ordinary human martial artists. Do you think Batman could defeat Bane through sheer skill if he weren't superhumanly strong? If he could only bench 300-400 pounds as opposed to 900+? He'd be crushed in an instant.

Your description of a typical fight is outrageously ignorant. And in fact you must have no knowledge of DBZ's main villains to insinuate they lack skill. Cell was literally a martial arts encyclopedia personified, and Frieza was a lifelong warrior who clearly portrayed great martial skill in his many fights.

If one guy weighs 100 pounds and the other 200, it doesn't matter. Whoever comes out standing wins. Goku wins most of his fights because his speed and durability are superior to his opponent. And they are superior, because he has refined his technique and thus moves faster. He is more durable because he has trained harder.

When did I say ANYTHING with weight again??? Or when did I say weight mattered in a fight?

No he doesn't win the fight because his speed is superior, it's because he HAS to win at the end of the day. He usually to always wins with some powerful blast, something he can't use in this fight.

Just like how Karate Kid is slower, weaker, less durable and he still canbeat Superman. Why can be beat him if he's weaker in about every category? BECAUSE HE HAS SKILL. Goku has to be "superior" in every category BUT skill to win a fight.

Now I'm pretty sure you get the concept because you subliminally but didn't realize you just projected that message out that I was trying to prove. But, I'll stop just so I wont make you even look more like an idiotbecause I'm a nice guy lmao. Just don't reply with any more stupidity.

Yes, Goku wins "just because he has to." Your logic is undeniable. I have no choice but to bend the knee to this convincing evidence.

If one guy weighs 100 pounds and the other 200, it doesn't matter. Whoever comes out standing wins. Goku wins most of his fights because his speed and durability are superior to his opponent. And they are superior, because he has refined his technique and thus moves faster. He is more durable because he has trained harder.

Now you said he wins because his speed and durability is superior. Everyone in this fight is the same and Batman has beaten people he was inferior to in terms of durability also, your point?

Oh wait, I see your point. The only way he ever wins a fight is if he's faster or stronger right???? LMAO IT'S SOOOOO FUNNY HOW YOU JUST PROVED MY POINT! He can only win is he is faster or stronger/ more powerful. Something most of these guys don't have to be, they just rely on skill.

I wasn't referring to this fight at all when explaining Goku's durability and speed. I guess you missed the point about combat speed being more reliant on fighting skill and technique than physical or spiritual strength, which is the reason why I didn't prove your point at all.

Anytime Gouk starts his notorious fights he always starts out weaker but he still has his Martial Arts skill. That didn't go away at all. So what if he starts out weaker? He should still be able to win if he's so good.

Skill is irrelevant if you are simply too weak to harm your opponent:

Goku could barely lift a 1 ton boulder at this point:

#37 Posted by Wardemon32 (4149 posts) - - Show Bio

@nightwingx:

Lmao don't tell me you came back for more.

Alright I said it takes about two secodns and you said it doesn't and it's in superspeed right? Now I think I have to talk a little slower lmao.

Now imagine this. The OP said that everyone is regular, so go back to the video and look at it as if it was in real time and apply it to this battle:). NO DO YOU GET IT!!:) YAY! One down a few more to gooo! GOLLY!

Skill is irrelevant if you are simply too weak to harm your opponent:

Or he does actually harm his opponents but his skill sucks so much he's only able to get one hit:) Next....

Yes, Goku wins "just because he has to." Your logic is undeniable. I have no choice but to bend the knee to this convincing evidence.

No I'm pretty sure I'm right and everyone else knows also. He HAS to win, not that he's good enough, HE HAS to win.He's the progagonist. In DC and Marvel the good guy doesn't always win. When was the last time the progagonist didn't lose in DBZ? And if he did the other guy died also and Goku always comes back. For example:

Goku is fighting Broly(I know it's non cannon but it still applies) and he is on the brink oflosing. He gathers the energy from ALL of his allies(keep in mind that all of them have low evergy from getting smacked around) and SOMEHOW ends Broly with one punch to the gut. I mean come on seriously? They could barely hurt him but somehow one punch killed him?

It's always Goku get's beat up and somehow he gets all this power from know where and ends up winning. Like how he did with Bills.

Oh and lol, didn't you say something about nerve points? Why didn't Goku use that is he couldn't harm them? I guess that's out the window and we know how Goku never uses all of his skills but just the regular set of standard punches and kicks.

Batman's strength is a huge leverage against opponents who are weaker than him, such as ordinary human martial artists. Do you think Batman could defeat Bane through sheer skill if he weren't superhumanly strong? If he could only bench 300-400 pounds as opposed to 900+? He'd be crushed in an instant.

So, it's not a HUGE leverage at all. It doesn't matter if he's weaker, he still beats them from skill and people even stronger than him. He doesn't win because he's stronger. He wins because he's better.

That's like disregarding about Bruce Lee, Jet Li, Jackie Chan, Tony Jaa, Donnie Yen, Chuck Norris, Muhammed Ali, Van Damme, Scott Adkins, Wesley, and who ever else I missed. They always face guys strogner than them and beat them, because of what? Skill.

Like I said being strong doesn't mean squat. Force=Mass*Acceleration. Batman mastered 127 martial arts styles. Course he'd still beat him.

So Batman is just as fast, and about equally as skilled as martial artists, yet he can bench press 1000 pounds to theirmaybe 200+ at best.

As much as comic fanboys don't want to accept it, Batman being 5x stronger than his opponents has just as much relevance as when Goku is stronger than his opponents, if you want to make that argument.

He beat

  • Bane
  • Killer Croc
  • A bunch of people from league of assasins who are HIGHLY durable
  • Solomon Grundy
  • Etc...

Beating people who's stronger than him, I can make that arguement.

For one, just because someone can lift more does mean their attacks will hit hard. They will generate great power with their blows due to their strength. This is why Superman hits harder than the Flash. However, speed has just as much relevance to striking force. This is why the Flash can still hit incredibly hard despite lacking physical strength.

Luckily for Batman, he isn't lacking in speed or strength.

OMG are you simple? You just contradicted yourself. You said "this is why flash can hit incredibly hard lacking physical strength" which means you don't need to be strong to hit very hard.

And Flash hit's MUCH harder than Superman, everyone knows that. You don't wanna get me started on that topic.

"Speed has just as much relevance to strking force" LMAO!!!!! No offense but I'm really starting to think you're meantally handicapped. If you are just say so.

Striking Force=Mass*Acceleration!

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/speed-vs-strength-common-misconceptions-608680/?page=1

http://www.expertboxing.com/boxing-training/boxing-workouts/why-lifting-weights-wont-increase-punching-power

Keeping your hands up is foolish in martial arts open hand fighting. Boxing has rules that makes keeping your hands up as guards wise. You won't see anyone else other than a boxer fighting with their hands up as face-shields unless they're inexperienced street fighters.

So it's better to keep your hands to your side? Here's a small list of the people that do it

  • Boxers
  • Kick Boxers
  • Muay Thai
  • Karate
  • Kung Fu
  • Taekwondo
  • Wing Chun

Give me some fighting styles that don't require posture/form rather than fighting with your hands to the side most of the time. All of the greats do it also.

Right, hence why Mutaito easily blocked his assaults. They were having an experimental sparring session. Quite different from a fight to the death.

Doesn't matter. He went in there serious and got handeled. Look at his other fights and he does the exact same thing. Glad you agreed though. Just because you're sparring doesn't mean you have to fight stupid

Why are you blatantly ignoring the context of the fight? Mutaito was calmly sitting there, allowing Goku to attack him.

Well um, when did I disregard that Mutaito was calmy sitting there. I said Goku went charging at him which is a mistake in fighting. I never said ANYTHING about the other guy. Even in his other fights he does the sameeee thing.

"he never curves his punches if he's going to miss" Never is a big word. You're going to have to provide a lot of proof for that claim.

Firstly, it was another word for rarely but never because it is EXTREMELY rare. I would have to show every fight and scan to prove that which is dumb. You're supposed to prove that.

Unless you're just referring to his fight with Mutaito, in which case your logic is dichotomous ("I didn't see him do it in his fight with Mutaito, therefore he can't"), and once again ignoring context.

You obviously don't know what "context" means.

>implying you are an established martial arts critic?

What are your feats for martial arts? How many black belts and Wushu masters have you KO'd? I'm willing to bet zero.

I was only showing that video because you claimed "Goku only uses regular punches and kicks." Evidently your ridiculous claim is untrue, by one simple video of Kid Goku.

That is not a serious fight, so they are not fighting their best to defeat their opponent. Especially Mutaito, who is clearly not trying whatsoever.

Just because I'm being a critic doesn't mean I'm perfect nor I have KO'd any master. I'd probably be able to beat you, js. This isn't about me, this is about Goku.

Kid Goku and Goku obviously fights different. He doesn't do that kind of stuff anymore so all of that can be disregarded.

An aspect of grappling... instantaneously settled with a kick to the opponent's stomach. Goku had everysingle bone in his body broken by Vegeta, and kept fighting. A joint lock wouldn't phase him at all.

LMAO, lets see him do this when he's a REGULAR HUMAN BEING! It says no superpowers and it is IMPOSSIBLE to break everybone and still keep fighting. DBZ exaggerates everything.

Last time replying because you can't comprehend anything and I'm wasting my time

#39 Edited by PrinceAragorn1 (16713 posts) - - Show Bio

@princearagorn1: OK, read what I said to make nthis guy look stupid and you'll get it. But let me just say something. Anytime Gouk starts his notorious fights he always starts out weaker but he still has his Martial Arts skill. That didn't go away at all. So what if he starts out weaker? He should still be able to win if he's so good. I mean

  • Batman does it
  • Karate Kid does it
  • Black Canary does it
  • Black Panther does it
  • Captain America does it
  • The rest of the Batfamily does it(Robin the 10 year old in short lmao)
  • And so many others I can list does this!

Goku always wins at the end where he REALLY get's more powerful. And I don't think you know what "Raw power" is. Raw Power isn't having Beams that heal you, raw power isn't taking everyones energy to make himself more powerful, raw power isn't having people backing him up all the time. And I don't think you know what biased means. Now I'm pretty sure I had to change someones mind with what I said up top. But explain, how was I being bias?

None of the people you mentioned fight anyone with nearly as much skill they have but far more powerful. They just fight people with a lot of power. Not to mention unlike anime, their combat speed difference is laughably small. Put any of them in a fight against person with good fighting speed, they will die. Easily. Combat speed is a very important aspect of your skills as well. In anime, people with more power have more combat speed as well, and you get outright blitzed no matter how skilled you are. They don't reduce stronger character's reflexes and combat speed so that weak ones can keep up with them, unlike comics. You didn't take into account the basic difference between comics and manga, and judged manga characters by comic standards. As to your comment which supposedly made someone look stupid, he seems to have given a good enough reply.

Your comment basically sums as:

"Goku, even if he is more skilled, will not win because he does not generally use only skill to beat his opponents, while the others do."

The fault lies in entirely ignoring combat speed, arguably the most important part of skills.

#40 Posted by Wardemon32 (4149 posts) - - Show Bio

@princearagorn1: I actually have much respect for Goku since he was one of my childhood heroes. But, the OP still states that everyone is regular and no super powers.

Karate Kid beat Superman

Batman beat Bane and Solomon Grundy

Robin fights a group of men all the time and can put up a fight with the rest of the bat familt, at 10.

And the rest of the guy has faced very powerful people.

"Goku, even if he is more skilled, will not win because he does not generally use only skill to beat his opponents, while the others do."

The fault lies in entirely ignoring combat speed, arguably the most important part of skills.

Point is that he has never defeated someone off of skill alone, well someone very powerful. While the others have done it plenty of times.

#41 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (16713 posts) - - Show Bio

@wardemon32:

kk fought with superman. I don't remember him getting beat entirely. Superman's combat speed isn't that awesome anyway. Batman and bane are not that different in combat speed, nor is grundy. Comics ignore the most important aspect of fighting skills, combat speed.

What you're not getting is, combat speed is an important aspect of skills. And anime characters, more powerful they are, they have more and more of it. And the enemies goku faces always have insane difference in fighting speed. Your fighting skills don't only depend on your form, and the kind of moves you use, it's most important aspect is combat speed. Comics entirely leave this out, focusing on great travel speeds mostly. and anime takes much more advantage of that.

Will karate kid keep up with a person who can move ten times the speed of light? Yes. Possibly.

Can he fight with someone who has twice fighting speed as him? No. Not at all.

What you have to understand is the fighting speed is a part of skills. Comic characters don't have that much in it, so anyone with good skills can negate the difference in raw power. You cannot negate the difference of combat speed, by being skilled as it is a part of skills.

The reason Goku can't beat his enemies with only form is they can overcome the difference with another type of skill.

Now, in the current situation, they have equal combat speed, and he is a master who can learn greatest moves in moments, see through an unknown technique in one shot, mimic the fighting styles near instantly. There is no way he is losing.

I know you respect goku, going against someone in forum doesn't mean you don't like the character. I get continuous complaints about this by kingjohn as I don't defend harry potter along with him, but doesn't mean I hate the character..

#42 Edited by Name55555 (218 posts) - - Show Bio

@wardemon32 said:

@princearagorn1: I actually have much respect for Goku since he was one of my childhood heroes. But, the OP still states that everyone is regular and no super powers.

Karate Kid beat Superman

Batman beat Bane and Solomon Grundy

Robin fights a group of men all the time and can put up a fight with the rest of the bat familt, at 10.

And the rest of the guy has faced very powerful people.

"Goku, even if he is more skilled, will not win because he does not generally use only skill to beat his opponents, while the others do."

The fault lies in entirely ignoring combat speed, arguably the most important part of skills.

Point is that he has never defeated someone off of skill alone, well someone very powerful. While the others have done it plenty of times.

So that is your point?? and beside being wrong, what does it prove??

That Goku is smart because he use 100% of his powers, intead of limiting himself??

your arguments are ridiculous!!

#43 Posted by NightwingX (117 posts) - - Show Bio

@wardemon32: the hell r u smoking? that's not my post ur quoting >.>

#44 Edited by P0rtal (872 posts) - - Show Bio

I say dead even tie between goku and kang with the edge to Liu. Why? Because he was the Elder Gods Chosen warrior and it would be like whatever source of all things in DBs universe choosing Goku to be the best warrior there is. Since gokus skill is heavily based on his Otherworld training and could not beat Vegeta in the saiyan saga after kais training...it is clear that vastly experienced fighters can compare to Goku. Vegeta for example, has a ton more experience fighting thousands of alien races. He is a step or two away from Goku in raw talent.

That in my opinion is not enough to compete with Liu Kang, a Warrior that at age 28 was being instructed by an authentic God in Raiden, and could best Kitana who had 10,000 years of combat experience, Kahn with even more and Shang with a few hundred. I just don't see Goku winning that 1v1 if he could hardly take out Vegeta.