Martial Arts only- no actively using powers

Welcome to a free for all "Bloodsport" inspired Martial Arts Tournament. I am very curious to see who you think would win it all. Maybe this will help determine who is the most dangerous hand to hand combatant in DC/Marvel?

The setting: the dojo from The Matrix

The rules:

• No weapons, no armor, no gear.
• Passive powers are ok; such as Cap's super soldier serum, Daredevil's senses, Wolverine's healing, Cassandra's body reading, etc.
• Active powers are not allowed. So no claw attacks from Wolverine but he'd still have his adamantium skeleton. Also Danny isn't iron fisting anyone.
• It's free for all.

The contestants were selected from popular characters from DC/Marvel comics. They are all approximately street level. I eliminated characters who have very limited appearances or only do guest appearances. I intentionally left out Gamora and Karate Kid as I felt they were overpowered.

The combatants: Batman, Captain America (pre-Remender), Lady Shiva, Iron Fist, Deathstroke, Wolverine (pre-Cornell), Daredevil, Nightwing, Cassandra Cain and Black Panther.

The conditions: Everyone fights in character. Killing, KO, disabling all count as victories. No alliances. Everyone has basic knowledge of their opponents.

Two questions we must answer-

1. Who do you think is the most skilled or dangerous hand to hand combatant here?
2. Who would most likely win this free for all? (under these conditions)

Let me know if there are any questions. I'm really curious about everyone's opinion.

Let the battle begin!

Edit: Wolverine's healing factor is now limited. It is now on the level of Captain America. Sorry for the changes!

Batman, Wolverine, and Shiva are the three best. Iron fist and cap are just a little tiny miniscule bit behind them. Then black panther. Then Cassandra. Daredevil. Deathstroke. Nightwing last.

Cassandra or wolverine would win because of physicals.

Wolverine. He's as good as or better than everyone here plus he has an indestructible skeleton and can heal through anything the others can throw at him. Even without Claws he's still punching with Adamantium-laced Knuckles.

You should probably remove wolverines healing factor. Its too much.

I feel like either Slade or T'Challa have the best chance here. I'll go with the latter.

*is forgetting the adamantium midget*

Wolverine cus healing and adamantium

You're ranking Panther well below where he should be in terms of martial arts skill.

Thanks for responding Jayc1324. So you have Cassandra Cain or Wolverine winning the free for all and Batman, Wolverine and Shiva are the top three overall. Let's see what others think!

Either Shiva or Cassandra, Daredevil comes close with the radar then IronFist. Deathstroke would still be able to beat Batman here, Panther I'm not so sure. Where's Shang Chi?

@shawnbaby: I am pretty darn sure he is worst than batman Shiva and wolverine. Where do you think he should be? Right next to cap?

Thanks for the feedback Shawnbaby. Do you have Wolverine winning both the free for all and think that he is the most dangerous hand to hand combatant here? And I agree, his striking power with those knuckles is nuts.

Right with Bruce, Logan, and Shiva.

@jashro44: Thanks Jashro! Excellent tip. I'd rather this discussion be more about fighting and less about Woverine walking through everyone's strikes.

Panther is higher than Batman as a martial artist, there I said it.

@quickfingers26: No problem.

I did consider putting Shang Chi in here. But I have not read enough of his comics to get a great feel for him. I've seen some of his feats and they are impressive. But again, I just have not seen enough of him myself.

Any more thoughts...

Who wins the free for all? And who is the most dangerous hand to hand combatant here?

Yeah, I'd put Wolverine as the most dangerous here as well..simply due to the fact that, along with his skill, stats and durability, he has no adversity to killing.

Not in the slightest..Bruce has more documented training and background that's been expounded upon MUCH more. He utilizes his MA skills just as much if not moreso than T'Challa.

As for who should win this..I'm betting James but it would be his powerset that gives him the win in addition to his h2h skills which are top tier amongst this selection of fighters.

@shawnbaby: Nah. Those guys have tons more knowledge

Logan

Tchalla, Shiva, Bruce would probably be my top three,,but my heart says daredevil because I love him so lol...but seriously I'd take tchalla most ikely,,but daredevil will get a respective rank,,might edge out a top 3 spot..unlike most I think in a straight fight daredevil could take batman. Wolverine is really tough but he can get too reckless at times,,he's usually more dependent on his healing than skill

When he's up against fighters on his level of skill he knows when to get serious. And considering the fact that there's several top-tier martial artists he recognizes in this very matchup..I don't think he would choose to be lazy. Over and above that, it would be stupid of him to use a nerfed healing factor as a crutch.

Panther more than proved his skills during the man without fear and most dangerous man alive where without his usual powerset he was fighting even with enhanced/super humans, and took down a dozen hand ninjas before fighting Lady Bullseye and Typhoid Mary.

As for Logan's skill and durability, it won't help him at all against Shiva or Cassandra, you've seen him go down by nerve strikes before by Daredevil.

Oops,,I didn't see the edit,,I assume he would take these fighters more serious considering his regen is limited to that of captain America,,but the durability of having an adamantium skeleton will still go a long way so he will be tough still,,maybe not as reckless. But he is still vulnerable to precision strikes to nerve clusters,,daredevil and Electra proved that..Electra paralyzed him with nerve strikes in enemy of the state,,and everyone remembers the throat strike from daredevil.

No. They do not.

In a hand to hand match with no gear T'challa is Bruce's equal in every way. With standard gear, T'challa is Bruce's Superior.

@shawnbaby: Not at all. Bruce is better. stuff like knowing 127 martial arts, knowing well over 400 ways to incapacitate someone without drawing blood, altering fatal martial arts moves to make them non fatal, fighting in a death match for 28 hours straight without killing anyone on purpose, knowing every pressure point, distupting Lois lanes short term memory transfer with a nerve touch (erasing her recent memory). His skill and knowledge is way larger, deeper, and more comprehensive than black panthers

The throat Strike from Daredevil was written by Garth Ennis...who admittedly hates Wolverine and makes him look bad whenever possible.

And yes, Nerve strikes are effective against Wolverine...but they have to be delivered to very specific parts of the body...they are hard enough to deliver in a one on one match against a highly skilled opponent. In a free for all, precision strikes are a lot harder to accomplish since you have to be aware of everything going on around you. It's not impossible...but it is going to be a factor.

Nerve Strikes are pretty much the only way to take Wolverine down in this scenario. On the other hand, Wolverine has no such limitations regarding how he takes down his opponents.

What you fail to realize is that T'challa has also mastered every martial art on earth and also knows all about pressure points.

The Death Match fighting is a testament to his stamina and durability...not skill. He was fighting against Fodder.

@shawnbaby: it is skill too. Fighting people trying to kill you for 28 hours straight and not killing them takes skill. Batman was fighting with spears and other deadly weapons like that and didn't kill a single person. This is an important fact because the lady running the thing was going to keep sending in fighters until Bruce killed someone to show him that killing is good, but he was so good he didn't need to kill and could simply beat everyone.

I understand that and that's great but I also mentioned a bunch of knowledge and skills BP doesn't have that batman does.

Feats that Bruce matches on a daily basis. On the other hand, Batman has proved his skills in such stories as Backup Tale where he was put in a deathmatch ring for 28 hours so he could learn to kill. But instead after those 28 hours all the fighters won't even come close to him because he used his skills to scare them into submission. There's also Knightsend which takes place right after his training with Lady Shiva to recover from getting his back broken by Bane, where Shiva arranges for 7 master martial artists to fight Bruce in succession in order of skill level. Where he not only beats them all using nothing but his h2h skill and wits, but he modifies the onehit kill Leopard Blow technique to put down the last and most formidable fighter non-lethally. And speaking of techniques, Bruce has more technical showings than T'Challa to speak for his MA knowledge. He knows moves such as..

The Heart-Piercing technique..

The Falling Leaf technique..

The Spine Crusher and Gymnast's Third Hand techniques..

Dim Mak, the ancient martial art of pressure point attacks..

The Steel Mountain Push and Phoenix Eye Fist techniques..

The Vibrating Palm technique which he modified of course..

And many, many, more. T'Challa does not in anyway exceed Bruce is pure skill. He doesn't have the showings or background to suggest that's true. He may beat him in a fight with standard gear, but a setting like this paints a very different story.

Wolverine isn't in the level of skill of most fighters here, Shiva and Cain can both predict his movements, even Daredevil has shown to be able to do that, I know IronFist lost that sparring match but it was a sparring match and he's taken down Sabretooth without chi while temporary blind, Panther is no stranger to Wolverine and Batman has experience with this kind of adversary, I'd say Slade is his equal in strength and his amped thought process will get him the win, he maybe beats Captain America, maybe.

It's not a credible test of skill because he was fighting fodder...guys he should have been able to beat in seconds.

Stalemating a skilled opponent for 1 hour is a better test of skill than steamrolling fodder for 28 hours.

@shawnbaby: The "fodder" argument is extremely silly and makes no sense but whatever, there's still other things u said to show Bruce is superior

Cassandra Cain, Logan, or Deathstroke.

@juiceboks well in some of these scans you posted he's just commenting about his technique. Would you say T'Challa beating IronFist and a SuperScrull with most of earth's street levelers skill had only to do with gear? He had trouble with the ninjas in that last scan, his trying not to kill method will cost him against an opponent like Panther.

What doesn't make sense about the fodder argument? What feats of skill do any of them have? Zero. Nothing. Nada. Beating Fodder up for a day isn't proof Bruce is more skilled than anyone.

In the pit the combatants were introduced 1 at a time at 1 hour intervals. He shouldn't have had any trouble at all even without killing...he should have been able to subdue them enough that they wouldn't be getting back up. Broken legs, broken arms...there's lots of ways to keep a man from coming back to fight without killing them. As you said...Bruce knows over 400 ways to incapacitate someone without killing them.

@shawnbaby: They are still a threat. It doesn't matter if they have feats. If I go out on the street and beat up 15 untrained guys at once its gonna be impressive.

Bruce is better than Black Panther.

..which shows that he knows the techniques and how they're applied. That's what constitutes as a technical showing. T'Challa didn't beat Iron Fist, he only survived long enough to give Danny an aneurysm because of his vibranium suit after which they both collapsed. As for him beating the Super Skrull, that's a good showing but it doesn't put him above Batman. If anything that shows that he can exploit a weak point fairly well(which all of these combatants have a decent amount of experience in). There was only one ninja in the last scan and Bruce oneshotted him..despite the fact they had the same teacher and the ninja was clearly fairly knowledgeable in martial arts techniques. Why would his unwillingness to kill be a detriment? He's already shown the capacity to modify death blows to take out an opponent..which is what the last scan was supposed to illustrate. He's taken down martial artists who wanted nothing more than to see him croak like Master Haim, by countering their blows and delivering his own to specific points on their bodies. Looser morals is not an advantage BP has..

Because thats real life. This is comics where everyone beats fodder.

@juiceboks Batman odyssey is non canon.

Impressive for a regular human. Not impressive in Comic Book terms.

Neither Bruce nor T'challa should have any trouble at all beating up 15 untrained guys at once. There's not a single person in this match that would have trouble in that situation. So no...it sin't impressive that Bruce can do something that everyone here could do.

They all chew through trained ninja like they aren't even there.

I'm gonna side with deathstroke under these conditions since he's probably the best at multi-tasking. He does better against teams than individuals, and he does still have his enhancements if I'm understanding the OP right. He's also pretty tough in a straight up fight as well.

@jashro44 Thanks for pointing that out. I wasn't sure where it fit in continuity-wise..

@juiceboks: No problem.

Going with my man Danny here but I think the top three will be him,wolvie, and batman

Great discussion so far!

Looks like the early favorites are: Wolverine (even with little healing and no claws), Black Panther, Shiva and Batman? Is the consensus that these four would most like win the free for all and are the most dangerous hand to hand fighters?

Well by that logic most martial arts Panther knows and has mastered have death blow moves and can use them. He did use skill to keep up with Danny and recognizing the flaw in that super scrull's technique is still a skill showing. Bats was fighting 3 or more of those ninjas in that story and had to run in a dark room to take them down till one shotting that guy. Like I said T'Challa beat a dozen hand ninjas and has fought evenly with Vlad who is enhanced with super soldier serum (which is better than say Batman getting whooped by Deathstroke or KGBeast), Kraven, Lady bullseye and Typhoid Mary together while trying to save a woman.

Cassandra Cain, Wolverine or Iron Fist IMO.

I know BP is a skill martial artist. I know he knows pressure point attacks. Bruce has more technical showings than T'Challa and more to say he's more skilled. He used some skill to avoid some blows, but he would have died without his suit. I never said that wasn't a skill showing, but it's nothing anybody else here couldn't have performed. Batman fought seven..but only 3 was shown. The last and hardest fought fight was a pure skill showing, along with the other two. Virtually featless hand ninjas that Daredevil and Elektra have owned as well. I dunno why you're comparing BP's highend feat with Batman's lowend one. I could easily bring up Classic Hulk beating down T'Challa to say that he's slow as hell compared to everyone else..but that's a poor man's argument.

I know the throat strike written by Ennis is called pis or discredited because of his dislike for wolverine but like I said Elecktra and psylocke have used them too iirc. If wolverine is engaged in combat with someone else, it seems possible that scene with extensive knowledge or pressure points like Bruce or Matt could step in and deliver the blow effectively,,that's one of the disadvantages of an all out brawl like this..on the other hand Matt's senses will make him most likely to sense incoming attacks from all angles more than anyone here,,that is why I feel he has a good chance finishing in the top 3