Mario and Luigi vs Scizor and Scyther

vs

Rules

Equipment for mario bros: 2 flame flower, 2 mushroom, 2 hammer, 6 green shells and 6 red shells.

Equipmeent for scizor and scyther: 2 max potions

Scizor and scyther moveset: Scizor does have hyperbeam like he does in the anime

Composite feats allowed for both teams

Bugsy will coach scizor and scyther in the fight.

Fight in mario stadium

Ew, you gave the Pokemon Ash to coach them? :P At any rate, may go for the Pokemon team here.

Fire is super effective versus both Pokemon. That's literally all Mario can do in a real fight is throw fire lol

they are bugs, flame flower should do it

I only did that because ash does kinda well when he coaches pokemon that are at a type disadvantage.

Mario brothers stomp so badly. They are on another tier

I'm willing to Say Pokemon team uses speed to their advantage and take this.

@those_eyes: He's still not that good of a trainer though lol, well compared to others. But then...I guess that would make it in the Pokemon's favor. At any rate still going for the Pokemon team, sure they are weak to fire attacks....but they have this thing called speed and flying which can greatly benefit them in avoiding the fire attacks while also dealing damage too.

Mario Bros definitely win.

@wolfrazer: @those_eyes: @wolfrazer: @loumast:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=surGgXy8n64&list=PL9C8DCD0D49928A1A

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCVTlhrttcE&list=PL6F6A4666C6048B8D

How do those pokemon take down the plumbers? I really have to ask.

@deathhero61: Yet you don't think the Pokemon can't just avoid the attacks with their speed + flight capability? Because as I recall Scizor and Scyther(or least Scyther anyway) have moved at speeds that made them disappear or move fast enough to leave behind afterimages(Double Team).

Mario to a Bug and Steel type is like Laxus to a Water and Flying type.. I see no reason why Mario couldn't OS both with ease.

@wolfrazer: Mario and Luigi have reacted to lightning and lasers(after they were fired). And both can run at high superhuman running speeds. Mario has also outrun bullet bills which are missiles. Being faster than human standard sight is not a big deal. And double team is not a showcase of speed at all considering most pokemon can do it.(even those that are slow.)

Since composite feats are allowed:

Notice how mario is running along side a missile from samus.(just in case you don't take the bullet bills seriously.)

Mario and Luigi stomp. Not to mention Ash coaching? Lmao, made the situation even worse.

@deathhero61: Well ok you're right about the Double Team thing, must have been confusing it with something else. Though really I was just going against the Mario bros team cause everyone else was going for them, trying to debate going. Abit I can't really remember all the Mario games and Brawl I haven't played, but yeah seems like Mario shows good there too.

BRB mario getting blitzed by charizard and greninja

BRB scizor jumping from the tree tops 4 different times in 1 second and blitzing team rocket before they can react

BRB scyther coming out of pokeball, cutting a boulder that is less than 3 feet away from landing on greens headI Iinto precise square pieces and at the precise angle to ensure none hit greens head. BRB You see two scythers In the scan butits actually just one

@deathhero61: Samus' missiles don't seem that fast, at least in her GBA games and smash bros. I mean there is literally a scizor of Melee that moves at roughly the same speed as her missile. And this scizor is just using Metal claw I believe. At the very very very least their speed is initially equal, while these two have the potential to get up to four times faster, if following battle mechanics.

Mario bros.

@those_eyes: Okay lets get this started.

1.Charizard is not scizor or scyther. Same applies to gremninja who based on what i seen is far faster anyway. Plus he didn't blitz mario at all, in the cutscene he shot a blast of water while mario and charizard were about to fight each other. Thats not blitzing at all.

2. You are overexaggerating, first of all it wasn't in one second at all. Second of all it was faster than sight, moving to 4 different trees in a second is not even faster than sight anyway which is the worse part, and the another thing is blitzing them is not a feat considering everyone and i mean everyone blitzes team rocket in the anime.

3. 3 feet away is another exaggeration. That was at least a good 3 meters. Plus something like that is still faster than sight not sound anyway.

4. Seems like you ignored the smbz showcase. No matter. Nothing you showed still doesn't compare to the mario brothers. Especially in comparison to what i showed.

@deathhero61:

1. Charizard is slower than scyther and scizor and he was faster than Mario for the most part.

2. Watch the video. It shows 1 second time passing from where scizor jumped across the trees. Even at the end if the video he jumps across different building tops 4 times in 3 seconds. Don't undersell him blitzing team rocket. They had all of their pokemon out at once and scizor one shotted them all into the horizon in 2 seconds.

3 it looks like 3 -6 feet. You are supposed to read it from left to right.

4. Neither Mario or luigi have ever left after images like scyther has. I showed plenty of speed feats to show they are faster. What in the world? Is super smash bros z even cannon?

@those_eyes:

1. No way to know that considering each and every pokemon has their own set of stats. Either way mario has never needed speed within his moveset in the first place. He relied on his smarts, his skill and his amazing power and versatility to get the job done.

2. All i know is that you are over-exaggerating. End of discussion. I undersell him because of team rocket since their pokemon was nowhere nearby in the clip and they were in the trees. And like i said everyone blitzes team rocket.

3.Not really. Looks like three meters. And i read manga you quack i know how to read all i see is three meters.

4. Double Team doesn't prove they are supersonic. And plus the after-images in pokemon are nothing considering that pokemon trainers despite their "fast" pokemon they can keep up with what's going on in the battle well enough to constantly give orders.

Don't act like im underselling your precious pokemon and don't ask whether or not SMBZ is canon because the games are not canon to the anime and neither is canon to the manga. Either way i can find more feats. Just say the word. Also funny thing is that boulder scyther sliced up, mario could have done that with a single punch. Or would have stopped it with his physical strength.

Stop with these threads, what next? Megaman vs Golurk?

You constantly rely on composite feats in order to even make half of the pokemon seem powerful.

@deathhero61: lmao why are you getting so defensive? How are you going to tell me to stop with these threads? You attack me for providing a rebuttal for the Pokemon but yet you don't bat an eye at anyone else in the thread who says the pokemon would win. Aswell not once in this thread have I said the pokemon win, all I did was provide input to try to sway people from thinking it's such a one sided battle. You act as if humans in the pokemon world are exactly the same as in the real world.

Oh and Megaman vs Goulark actually sounds like a good match. Thanks.

@those_eyes: the only person who even said pokemon would win is @loumast and for some reason i don't even think he counts. Anyway i attack you for putting pokemon against utter powerhouses without a thought. You put hitmochan and hitmonlee who are absolutely featless even with pokedex and anime/manga feats, against Monkey D. Luffy same guy who can potentially split islands with his punches, and destroys mountains and giant ships as a hobby and was already dodging bullets in the second episode

Megaman vs Golurk? Hell i'd do a CAV on that just to prove how weak pokemon are in comparison to most universes if you ignore hax.

@deathhero61: not all pokemon have the same power level. There are plenty that could beat characters like luffy. I've put pokemon against thor and majority said the pokemon would win. I've put pokemon up against gorgon, magneto, super skrull, and various other and people said they were good match ups. Why do you call me out on the battles Ive made that were toward being one sided but ignore the closer ones? You seem to have an agenda to attack me and idk why. Frankly I don't care. Btw me thinking the Goulark vs megaman was a good match was sarcasm. But you seem so intent to try to attack me that you try to do a cav on it without grasping that I was being sarcastic. I'm not saying I make perfect matches all the time but who does? If you are so upset about my pokemon matches and think they are spite and stupid then just flag me, hope I get banned, and move on instead of feel a need to attack for some deep seeded reason of yours. I'll be happy to do a cav with you (since you seem so intent to) but with characters who obviously would be a good match up against each other and as long as you don't take things so personal.

Please don`t do Megamen vs Golurk. Do a thread like Capcom vs Pokemon xD

Anyway Scizor and scyther in a ridiculous stomp. Pokemon are not that cuttie when they are fighting. Booth just turn Mario and luigi into Sushi.

Mario and Luigi are terrible Scyther and Scizor stomp

But seriously flame flower gives the mario brothers this fire does not mix well with bug/flying types let alone steel/bug types

Yay i don't count. must be why the points I brought up were ignored. And what you said about Mario being able to break the rock in an instant. Fair enough. The thing is, Scyther would have made however many slashes in quick enough succession to slice the rock into the pieces before it hit the ground.

loumast used callout:

@norrinboltagonprime21@dratini1331@strictlyanime

@homicidalmaniac@soothing_sounds@nighthunder

@fallschirmjager@pierpat@jonez120

Mario Bros never lose!

@those_eyes: Please besides hax users such as mewtwo and daigla and palkia, or the god pokemon such as arceus,(who doesn't have many feats to begin with besides being god.) please humor me, who can defeat characters from HST from pokemon?What pokemon did you put against thor?(if you are talking about thor vs machamp then get the heck out of here because you stripped him of his hammer which is the source for a majority of his powers IIRC but even then thor would still win, the fact that you had hercules up against machamp shows so much more you even had juggernaut a man who does things to planatery proportions and is virtually unkillable. And nobody in the pokemon universe would have negated his barriers to even attempt to harm him. The match ups you make are reliant on inconsistencies in the first place, thats the main reason why im mad about your threads, its as if you have no knowledge whatsoever about the people you put the pokemon against.) I have to see this. Everyone has there different opinions plus there are several and i mean several people here on comicvine who are ignorant of thor.

Why do you call me out on the battles Ive made that were toward being one sided but ignore the closer ones?

What closer ones? Please provide some examples of threads that i know exist that i purposely put a side comment like "sigh...." or "this is stupid" then left. There has not been a single thread that had to do with pokemon that i did that with that wasn't some form of stomp.

And there honestly is no need for these threads, the fact that you have to boost them by using feats from the pokedex which is in no way an accurate way to depict a pokemon's strength since every pokemon has there own limits and set of stats even within the same species. And using anime/manga feats show that they aren't up to par with the people you put them against. Even when you defend them they aren't even remotely close to being impressive in comparison to the standards of most of their opponents. I'm not that much of a negative person that i would flag someone, even people that annoy me to no bounds such as natsuboi and theultimatefusion i wouldn't resort to flagging them. Its not that much of a big deal its just so many

I'll be happy to do a cav with you (since you seem so intent to) but with characters who obviously would be a good match up against each other and as long as you don't take things so personal.

I'll take you anytime. And show you that pokemon aren't as powerful as you make them seem.

@loumast: I'm sorry but sometimes i get this vibe that you are more easy to convince of an argument than most people. You are easier to reason with in terms of a debate, thats why i don't take you seriously in comparison, don't take it offensively.

@frocharocha: May i ask how they "cut them into sushi?" May i ask how they even touch them let alone take a single attack from either of them?

VSauce has pretty much convinced me that Pokemon are killing machines so I'm picking Scyther and Scizor on this.

If no pokemon besides Legendary pokemon can beat Sonic.. Mario by himself is not loosing.

Don't mind me ;D

. I'm not even going to get into this with you. Idk what your grudge against pokemon are but I hope you get it handled. You obviously aren't going to stop making this personal for some reason. Many pople here not just meare big ppokemon fans and have had them go up against good characters. I don't know why you make it sound like pokemon can only win due to hax when other characters have hax moves that you support. and don't complain about. IIdk why you couldn't just gave your rebuttal or flag me without having to put your two cents on how you think my pokemon matches are stupid andooverated. I would never have never done that to you about neji or other characters you like.

Mario Bros get the 1up here.

@those_eyes: So luffy has hax? so thor has hax? Thats interesting, go on. The funny thing is i support any side that i know stomp a pokemon. Hax or no hax. I have no grudge i just find it ridiculous how you think the feats from the manga/anime are such a big deal in comparison to who you pit them against. Cutting ships? Zoro has done that with no effort, cutting buildings? i can name several people at the top of my head who can do that and more. The fact that you provided no real argument on the hitmochan and hitmonlee vs luffy argument showed so much as to why i "have a grudge" against pokemon. They are overrated, and if i do hate pokemon(which i really don't.) i would hate them as much as i hate goku, inconsistent, and without some form of speculation(in your case pokedex feats) he is nothing.

So i make mismatch threads between several characters? and i overrate a character's abilities with nothing to back it up? Do you have any examples? Negi? I actually had feats to back up why he destroys mewtwo.(without mental attacks which would be considered hax) I actually proved that so much in our tourney match its not even funny.

I have no real grudge, i haven't put my favorite set of characters in any form of mismatch, and even if i did, i don't do it daily like you potentially do, quite honestly im not holding a grudge.

grudge

@nyas said:

Don't mind me ;D

Why am i not surprised @nyas why am i not surprised. Anyway you won't be getting your shit storm my friend.

@deathhero61 said:

@those_eyes: So luffy has hax? so thor has hax? Thats interesting, go on. The funny thing is i support any side that i know stomp a pokemon. Hax or no hax. I have no grudge i just find it ridiculous how you think the feats from the manga/anime are such a big deal in comparison to who you pit them against. Cutting ships? Zoro has done that with no effort, cutting buildings? i can name several people at the top of my head who can do that and more. The fact that you provided no real argument on the hitmochan and hitmonlee vs luffy argument showed so much as to why i "have a grudge" against pokemon. They are overrated, and if i do hate pokemon(which i really don't.) i would hate them as much as i hate goku, inconsistent, and without some form of speculation(in your case pokedex feats) he is nothing.

So i make mismatch threads between several characters? and i overrate a character's abilities with nothing to back it up? Do you have any examples? Negi? I actually had feats to back up why he destroys mewtwo.(without mental attacks which would be considered hax) I actually proved that so much in our tourney match its not even funny.

I have no real grudge, i haven't put my favorite set of characters in any form of mismatch, and even if i did, i don't do it daily like you potentially do, quite honestly im not holding a grudge.

grudge

grəj/nounnoun: grudge; plural noun: grudges1.

a persistent feeling of ill will or resentment resulting from a past insult or injury.

I feel no resentment, and there is no insult or injury being inflicted on me. These matches are pointless is all im saying, they are as pointless as DBZ vs DBZ threads. Or DBZ(with powerscaling being used) vs any other form of fiction.

@nyas said:

Don't mind me ;D

Why am i not surprised @nyas why am i not surprised. Anyway you won't be getting your shit storm my friend.

I think you need help for your hatred and biased towards pokemon. Maybe see nurse joy for some treatment.

Im just gonna leave this here.

^ Best strength feat shown in pokemon.. By a Pokemon who could get OS easily..

-Yawn-

ok....lol

@those_eyes This and plus i can show several low-tier opponents that could do that, plus considering this is the anime we are talking about i bet if i scourged through the season i could find an inconsistency. Plus how am i being biased against pokemon? Now you are accusing me of things i don't do. Great.

Oh by the way let me leave you with this:

onoki carries island.

Oh oh and:

Although it doesn't necessarily pertain to his striking strength:

Completely redirects blast from gajeel.

Next:

Later on he had Striking feats such as causing massive shockwaves just by clashing with gajeel

Gallery

Considering how powerful gajeel is most likely it would have been stronger.

In Recent chapters he had feats such as these:

Gallery

Well as you can see in the first two scans, he engulfed his hands in order to enhance the power of his punch. Early in the series it was stated that fire increases the destructive properties of his attacks. Which would explain allot.

:

look at the shockwave being created by his punch alone

Natsu slammed a dragon through a ridiculously durable door that had no scratches no matter who tried to destroy it. And this very same gate can store energies rivaling etherion. And can keep dragons from coming out as long as the door is closed. So yeah we can get a good idea on how durable the door is. Natsu slammed rogue and his dragon straight through this door.

Gallery

Since dragon force increases one's power by several times, and the only times he went dragon force is when he ate large quantities of magic(A.K.A etherion) or when he ate a golden flame from jellal which apparently was far different from your everyday flame, this means that natsu could easily achieve these feats in dragon force.

Oh and i just wanted to show one more feat of physical strength.

Hades with his chains managed to do this:

You saw those chain attacks he was spamming during his fight with the FT guild?

Gallery

He can overpower large opponents like makarov in his titan form. The same guy who one shotted hades' giant airship with a kick.

Look how large hades's air ship is:

Natsu breaks free of a likely enhanced version of it which restrained both of his hands.

@deathhero61: You say not to take it offensively... but how am I supposed to take it. I'll admit I might be easily swayed in some arguments, mostly when they are legitimately, in my mind at least, a close battle that could go either way. I also know I can be wrong, so I'm not going to ignorantly insist that what I say is right. Of course if there is obvious proof for my argument against or when there is none for the other side, I'll stick to my guns. Like I've done here. This battle does constitute a close battle like I said. I mean, yes, if Mario or Luigi hit either opponent with a fire ball that would be it for them pretty quickly. I just don't think that the brothers would be able to hit the pokemon.

the bros win

@loumast: They have reacted to lightning and lasers, and other fast attacks, considering their reactions and combat speed all they have to do is counter attack. Plus mario doesn't even need a fire flower, in two rpg games he had fire manipulation. While luigi has lightning manipulation.(legit lightning since it came from the god of thunder in the mario universe.) So do they have the reactions to keep dodging mario and luigi's attacks and to avoid any counter attacks? i think not. Taking into consideration their experiences, and the things they had to deal with a set of beings who is barely faster than sight would not be a problem. If it can be argued that sonic vs mario would be a good fight why does it have to be a supposed stomp in a scyther's and a scizor's favor when they aren't even faster than sound?

They are so much more smarter than most pokemon and they are far above the normal tier for a pokemon.

They take this especially considering they work as a team more than a scyther and a scizor, making ash the coach is a horrible idea since he often makes horrible ideas during battle for no reason, the only time he had good ideas is when he is bonded with one of his own pokemon.

@deathhero61: good feats but many pokemon have reacted and dodged lightening its nothing new. Aswell scyther was fast enough to manipulate charizards flamethrower from hitting him while he was going through the flame thrower to confront charizard. So even with the fire advantage it's not unlikely that scizor or scyther could maneuver around or manipulate it with speed.

@wolfrazer: oh and wolfrazwe you were actually right about the move double team. It's stated in the pokedex that the move double team is done by moving so fast that you create copies of yourself because of the speed at which you move. Scizor has made over 8 while flying. Being able to move so fast that you create 8 copies of yourself is easily supersonic+ speeds.

Mario still solos xD

Mario still solos xD

Show me them dodging it after it was fired from the sky or legit lightning.(plus this is mario and luigi vs scizor and scyter not mario and luigi versus many other pokemon.) Plus the main problem here is that there is no composite scizor or scyther. Each one is used by a different trainer and each has its own set limits. And dodging lightning or lasers in pokemon is inconsistent and has even been done by the trainers themselves IIRC. Pokemon dodging lightning is inconsistent mainly due to the fact that the trainer is fast enough to register the lightning and tell its pokemon to dodge before it reaches its destination. If one was faster than sound the the sound attack would have already reached the pokemon before the trainer could register the attack and even speak the words since the sound would be faster than then the trainer registering then saying the word. Like i said mario and luigi could easily counter their speed due to their reactions, they have faced fast opponents and have reacted to situations quickly.

Mario has way too much experience to be beaten by something that is not only arguably slower than him(and even if it wasn't scyther's and scizor's speed wouldn't play a factor considering mario has dodged sound waves effortlessly and has kept up with foes who are actually swift.) Would also get one shotted.

While im here:

Notice how he is dodging meteors, a meteor travels at hypersonic speeds.(without air resistance and if its in space the fastest meteors can travel at 26 miles per second.) At the very best if im being generous scyther and scizor are mach 1. Which is not impressive at all in comparison to the things mario and luigi have reacted to.

Anyway mario's striking strength is far too much for scyther and scizor. They will get one shotted.(look how small peach was in bowser's hand, thats how small mario is in comparison to bowser in the final battle during super mario galaxy two. Mario had enough striking strength to hit one small rock so hard that it would be an efficient enough weapon to knock bowser away)

The fact that nearly every single pokemon,including slowpoke can do double team who by the way the pokedex says that he supposed to be slow(and his stats in terms of speed are slow) shows that double team having to do with speed is hyperbole or it doesn't require much movement. Hell even a snorlax and a onix and a Muk a freaking Muk can do double team. So all pokemon are supersonic? even those that are not stated to not be fast in the first place? Even in terms of stats?

Yes he still does. -.- I still haven't even shown half of mario and luigi's feats.

@deathhero61: Alright... first, posting a video to prove your point is one thing, but posting multiple videos that total to more than an hour is ridiculous! O.O Seriously lol. *ahem* Anyway... You make a good point... well multiple good points, not gonna lie, but one thing in particular that caught my attention was not having a composite scyther/scizor to work with. And honestly... yeah. I mean perfect example and going back to Green/Blue's Scyther from the manga. Apparently it was able to hit ghost types with it's slash attack so that right there would put it above most pokemon in that regard. So I think I'll concede this debate, and before you go on about how easily I'm swayed, I really think the point of most debates are to not only present your argument but to learn from others. And if changing ones opinion makes me seem like a lesser debater, a term I admittedly use loosely, well... you're just a very combative person then...

On a side note I'm beginning to believe most things in mario, when being played at least, are seriously slowed down >.>

No its just in comparison to most people you put up less of a fight lol. Most people when they feel they are proven wrong they simply don't reply to the next comment and leave it alone or they simply say "lets agree to disagree."

Taking into consideration that sonic games are heavily slowed down due to the fact that if games could seriously move at supersonic to hypersonic speeds, they wouldn't be playable and people could potentially have seizures, thats very likely true.