Marines vs Team

@dedmanwalkin: Hold on, it is called the LOST Waaagh! and you are using it as evidence? You realize Lost means that it has not been found right? Does Grizgutz do anything after this? Or is he just LOST in a continual timeloop? It is called a localized time loop and they happen in multiple science fiction universes WITHOUT proving the entire universe is ACAUSAL. There is an awesome episode of Star Trek where they get locked in a localized time loop. There is also an awesome episode of Stargate that deals with the same thing. The episode of Stargate even explains that while locked in the localized time loop, the outside universe moved through time normally. The Tok'ra were unable to contact Earth for months while the Earth kept resetting every day. Grizgutz is just Bill Murray in his own suicidal Groundhog Day! Also, nice quote from a Wikia!

It is called the 'lost waaagh' because they went back in time, 'lost in time' is a fairly famous reference. Uh, no, it says the WAAAGH disbands because of sheer confusion not because they enter a timeloop, and given that a large force completely identical to their's popped out of nowhere, yea, I would say they have reason to be confused about the whole ordeal especially when Nobs start seeing the same Nobs with the same gear as them and fights start to break out.

You have no idea on how little I care what happens in other shows, what I want you to do is start providing evidence that takes place inside the 40k universe.

From a wiki? That is adorable, just for you, I went out of the way to take the page, crop it, and post it for you:

Now, stay with me here, this may blow your mind, but.... believe it or not... people who write on the wikia... maybe... just maybe... got their information from codex? And, stay with me here, some of them may have copied parts of it, but do you know why I don't accept Wikis? Do you know why Wiki's are almost never accepted? Because there is nothing stopping someone from adding or taking stuff away compared to the source material like what I posted above.

Has Orikan ever explained his "secret method he guards to time travel" even in the codexes? I am guessing no but I'll let you check. Now since it is secret we get to use logic to determine how he does it, remember Occam's Razor from before? So we have to build the simplest means of Orikan being able to perform his acts and still achieve the canon effects. Now Orikan would have to be able to time travel but since they have access to FTL travel, that could be performed rather easily. Now the only way to actually alter the future would be to protect himself from the effects of paradox. Deathmark Snipers use technology that could allow them to do so, right? So he uses the FTL to time travel and then uses Deathmark tech to shield himself from Paradox. Can you come up with a simpler means of achieving his goals that does not invent things that have not already been shown? I am also guessing this is also a no.

Does what you read just go straight through your mind, then altered, then kicked around a bit, then spat back out in a vain attempt to avoid having to provide counter evidence?

Deathmark Snipers do not go back in time, Orikan does. What they do is not the same.

Uh, no we don't, Orikan timetravels back down his own timeline. This is very clear cut. It does not say, "Well, Orikan hides in another dimension totally parallel with the real one then talks to his younger self and informs him of what to do and not do." What you are trying to do is dismiss lore evidence and feats in order to twist it to suit yourself which... doesn't work.

Oh, and again:

He emerges in the past! He is inside the universe at the same place he was before! He does not hide in another dimension.

Your attempt to make Pre-Cog not a thing is a pathetic grasp. Your attempts to insult me by implying I use Wikias and am a hypocrite is hilarious in its arrogance.

So Ahriman used a backdoor into them to regain control, that is even worse. I thought he was just drowning out the commands of other psionics, he is just overriding them.

Lol, and I am sure Zeratul has demonstrated the means to do this and knows their names. I am even further sure that you will post some evidence support this.

The Psionic Blade, like most machines, can vary in intensity depending on how much "gas" it is given. More psionic energy allows him to completely kill a psionic entity a little energy allows him to dampen it like he did with the Overmind to get to Tassadar's echo. That sounds familiar doesn't it? Almost like he would be using his blade to dampen the control of the sorceror so that he could get to the Rubric Marine's psionic echo.

Sounds like I am still waiting on your evidence. Dampening it (Not to mention the overmind was dead already) to speak to an echo =/= taking something over.

I gave you the name of the mission, you can read up on it or watch a video for free! If you really want to be so picky on scans and such then all of your quotes are pretty much useless. They are just "transcriptions" not actual scans. I am not spending 20-40 dollars on a codex just to verify that you aren't lying. Given that, post the actual pages! This is why arguments over scans are freaking ridiculous. There is a concept in debate known as good faith. I have given you no reason to suspect that I am lying and have provided you with an example. Given that you have previously stated that there is no "computers" in power armor when the quote from before DIRECTLY states that there are, you can't be trusted. You have willingly stated that Power Armors can't be hacked because they have no computers or whatever ridiculous reason you tell yourself. Cogitators are computers!

I didn't post the Space Marine pages because I have the PDF version, not the hardbook, the PDF version... well, it butchers the pages and is over 500something pages long and doesn't list the pages on the bottom. I want to see you provide true quotes and feats, you prance around demanding it all the time, yet you never supply, it is both hilarious and sad.

You have given me plenty of reason to doubt you. I constantly demand evidence from you, in every debate we have ever been in, you rarely (I can only think of one time you have done this) supplied it. It is almost a joke. I demand evidence, you prance around, I demand evidence again, you prance around then leave. I give people 'good faith' when they consistently provide evidence because that implies that they could and can do so if demanded.

Uh, no, my argument was that there was no external way to link up with the suit in order to hack it. You need to connect with something to hack it, you cannot simply 'hack' something without being able to 'link' with it. You need to be able to upload as well as communicate with the device in question.

I really couldn't care less about what version of armor they are. You have yet to post a real scan detailing how the system works. Of course the Vox Grill has an air purifier, it is located on the back like most air purification systems.

... Are... you... what? Shutting off the Vox Grill would make them use the internal air supply meaning the oxygen comes into the armor from the Vox Grill meaning in order to cut a Space Marine from oxygen, you would need to stop this intake which is on the front of his helmet.

(The Vox Grill is on the helmet... You speak through the Vox.... that... ugh... I swear, in your head, kicked around, spat out again.)

I love how both of you have no real defense against Zeratul and this is really a debate on how well he destroys the enemy team.

If you had paid attention, I already said team 2 wins due to lack of auspex and the number of team 2's invisibility members. I never said Zeratul could or couldn't solo.

@wut: @killerwasp: @dedmanwalkin: Well, i didn't know it took a soc to use a rubric marine. Anyway if thats the case the Rubric marine can be treated just like any other space marine. He his own will and does not need to be controlled through a soc. Basically an actual space marine with a ghost inside.

@killerwasp saw you said wolves aren't the best at hand to hand. If they have standard gear, most have power swords, power axes, or even chain fists. Their most basic infantry the blood claw, can take down endless waves of imperial guard or the chaos's mortal helpers without even getting scratched. So yeah they are good at melee mofo. Starting to think team2 might take it though

@aressword your right the wolf won't best a predator vet easily. In the books that i've read a lot of the space marines can move fast enough to be a blur, and can dodge bullets. BTW Zeratual > everyone else on team 2. Didn't see him there. He could probably take out a lot of them.

@savageslayer: That because wolves aren't, just because you have the best gear, doesn't mean you will win, and khorne berserkers usually carry enchanted axes as well this is both post and pre heresy. The difference is the khorne berserkers may not think about tactics, but they are always fighting constantly among st themselves and others alike.

Ohh Good debate

@aressword: You can just make them Pre-heresy. Pre-heresy they were normal marines.

Post-heresy they are dust. Their souls are trapped into the armor and a Sorcerer leads them otherwise they either mill about slowly looking for enemies, or they stand still like statues.

@killerwasp what are you talking about. did you read battle of the fang? All of their off time their blood claws were brawling amongst themselves training in just straight hand to hand. Some beat each other to a bloody pulp only to do it all again the next day.

@savageslayer: .... Did you listen to what i said hes using pre and post sm MOST world eaters are going to use melee its their thing, wolves are assault kind of chapter their good with melee, but their not main guys who are the best at melee.

@killerwasp He said their using the basic marine, which for space wolves is the blood claw. who for the most part usually go melee with a bolter pistol

@savageslayer: ik and im arguing the same thing for the world eaters who are mostly khorne berserkers by now. Not all, but mostly. World eaters are literally devoted to khorne which is all about melee and zero strategy and which means the world eaters usually have power axes and a plasma pistol.

@killerwasp and the OP only says bolted resistance. I change my answer to world eaters solo with plasma pistols

@savageslayer: To be fair they usually forget about 50 percent of the time that they even have that plasma pistol. XD

@killerwasp: "Not every Beserker is a World Eater, but every World Eater is a beserker."

@wut: lol "Not ever khorne is a berserker, but ever berserker is khorne." LOL

@wut: I want the coolness of the Rubic marine, but I want him with the standard marines, yet able to move on his own if we just assumed a soc was controlling him that couldn't be harmed nor damaged in fact basically non-noticeable just so the Rubic could move and do what he needs to do.

@savageslayer: Fair enough

bump

WOW i completely forgot about this LOL.

Another thread of Deadmanwalking butchering the Lore of Warhammer 40K. Typical.

Space Marines win.

No kidding.

bump

Sarah and Zeratul might be enough to save the team from being completely screwed. Both have nice ways of detecting their foes and both have good enough physical stats and gear to drop a Space Marine.