Marines vs Team

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Aressword

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Space Marines and Chaos Marines; All basic.

Dark Angels Marine.

Emperor's Children Marine.

Iron Warrior's Marine.

White Scars Marine.

Space Wolves Marine.

Imperial Fists Marine.

Night Lord's Marine.

Blood Angel's Marine.

Iron Hands Marine.

World Eaters Marine.

Ultramarine Marine.

Death Guard Marine.

Thousand Sons Marine; Rubric Marine.

Black Legion Marine.

Word Bearer's Marine.

Salamander Marine.

Raven Guard Marine.

Alpha Legion Marine.

vs

Team

Predator; Veteran.

Boba and Jango Fett.

Commander Shepard; Armor is bullet resistant.

Big Daddy Bioshock and little Sister ; Bullet resistance but not invincible.

Deathstroke and Taskmaster.

Black Manta and Silver Samurai.

Tartarus, Thel Vadam, Ripa 'Moramee, and Rtas 'Vadum; all have working top shields and are in Covenant Elite Zealot Armor not weak Arbiter Armor.

Jim Raynor, Sarah Kerrigan, Zeratul ; as ghost, but no offensive powers just personal defensive powers.

Brotherhood of Steel Knight; Is bullet resistant, but not bullet proof.

Rules

  1. No morals.
  2. Standard gear.
  3. no prep.
  4. no prior knowledge.
  5. No Infighting and work as a team.
  6. Standard versions for all and all lore is allowed. Note the Space Marines are both post heresy.
  7. No warp,magic,physic powers unless its a personal defensive or if it forms your weapon; aka Zeratul.
  8. No BFR.
  9. Winner by Death.
  10. All of Team two's weapons are able to pierce the SM armor, but some faster than others.
  11. No motion tracking/senses for both teams at all.

Landscape for the fight; whole area is half a mile by half a mile, team 1 starts at attacking spawn team 2 at defense spawn.

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deactivated-5dace575ce059

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Prolly SM/CSM overall in standards and stuff, granted overall team 2 has some unique weapons i just dont see them doing the damage that needs to be done to put down the marines. I know a few will die, but all of team two will die.

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DottiestMoon

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DottiestMoon

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@killerwasp: I've been reading the ghost of onyx and i couldn't find the part when robert got one shot by a plasma rifle.

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Jmarshmallow

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Prolly SM/CSM overall in standards and stuff, granted overall team 2 has some unique weapons i just dont see them doing the damage that needs to be done to put down the marines. I know a few will due, but all of team two will die.

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deactivated-5dace575ce059

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hatemalingsia

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Prolly SM/CSM overall in standards and stuff, granted overall team 2 has some unique weapons i just dont see them doing the damage that needs to be done to put down the marines. I know a few will die, but all of team two will die.

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jwwprod

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SPACE MARINES WTF!!!!!

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ssj_god

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too much characters

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DottiestMoon

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@killerwasp: I was reading the entire thing on the internet(don't tell anyone) I searched pages 80-87 which was stated to be the pages where robert dies by a plasma bolt.I couldn't find it.

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BoringPerson

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#12  Edited By BoringPerson

@killerwasp said:

Prolly SM/CSM overall in standards and stuff, granted overall team 2 has some unique weapons i just dont see them doing the damage that needs to be done to put down the marines. I know a few will die, but all of team two will die.

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OreoAssassin

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Marines

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jwwprod

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@aressword: Also I think you were meant to say Big Sister instead of Little Sister LOL!

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Wut

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Deathstroke, Predator, Black Manta, Thel, and Zeratul are the greatest threats to the other team, Shepard could be a problem if she is a biotic since her rifle can now punch through Space Marine armor... Does 'some faster then others' mean that a weaker weapon like the ME rifles would pierce after a few shots in the same place where the Predators plasma gun will go right through?

That said, many of their weapons simply don't have the necessary stopping power to put down a Space Marine without serious luck because Space Marines have ridiculous durability especially the Rubric Marine (I am assuming he is working as if there was a Sorcerer controlling him despite there not being one here.)

Saying they are bullet resistant is unnecessary. Bullet resistant material will still get punctured by a Bolter like tissue.

I wouldn't say all lore is allowed because there is a lot of lore on space marine that goes from 'can't hit the broad side of a barn' (DOW intros) to 'light speed reflexes and back flipping terminators'.

I think I will probably go with the Space Marines due to superior sensory equipment (auspexs) that will give them a large advantage in this urban (sorta) setting.

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Aressword

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@wut:

Deathstroke, Predator, Black Manta, Thel, and Zeratul are the greatest threats to the other team, Shepard could be a problem if she is a biotic since her rifle can now punch through Space Marine armor... Does 'some faster then others' mean that a weaker weapon like the ME rifles would pierce after a few shots in the same place where the Predators plasma gun will go right through?

Yes that's what I mean, that everyone's gun can pierce SM armor, but as I've said some faster than others due to damage and such. Good question tbh I didn't know how to word that, because if I didn't allow that rule a lot would be non factors, and I want them to be factors because they are cool sci fi people and creatures imho.

Saying they are bullet resistant is unnecessary. Bullet resistant material will still get punctured by a Bolter like tissue.

I knew this would be a problem, in the same sense i was implying bullet as bolter rounds. They are bolter resistant and i'd say at least the lesser ones having the durability of a ork mid tier fighter. That was my point at least to say that they at least have a chance to reach their target if they prefer melee per say.

I wouldn't say all lore is allowed because there is a lot of lore on space marine that goes from 'can't hit the broad side of a barn' (DOW intros) to 'light speed reflexes and back flipping terminators'.

Alright well the avg then for team 1 and all feats for team 2.

I think I will probably go with the Space Marines due to superior sensory equipment (auspexs) that will give them a large advantage in this urban (sorta) setting.

No sensors at all, so they have to see their enemy not use motion tracking and sensors to detect them.

@jwwprod: Yes I meant for the big sister, for some reason i was thinking little sisters in here lol.

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DedmanWalkin

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#17  Edited By DedmanWalkin

Sarah Kerrigan Solos, she simply calls in a Nuclear Strike on the other half of the map killing them.

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Wut

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@aressword: Mmm, if no auspex, I would probably favor the team because of the Predators invisibility, Elites invisibility, and Zeratuls skill, shields, and invisibility.

Only way I can see Zeratul dying is if he jumps into the middle of a group (which he probably won't do) or if he stabs the Rubric Marine... because there is nothing in there to stab... so that could get him shot instead of 'disemboweling' the marine like he planned.

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Detrolord

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Can go either way

marines kinda have the advantage and i'm 2 lazy 2 write maybe i'll try to put a long paragraph whenever i feel like iti'll try 2 put the advantage and disadvantage between the 2 teams

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Savageslayer

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Wish people stopped whinning about too many characters. But Space marines kinda stomp this hard. I mean space wolf would take out any of these guys in melee before they could even react. Should make it just a couple of space marines like 2or 4. @aressword

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deactivated-5dace575ce059

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@wut: Wow kinda shocked u gave team 2 a win lol. Even though ur favorite Marine is in this thread XD. Well not necessary favorite but favorite legion lol. Although I bet Zeratul will stab a Rubric marine, and in fact i'd find it funny LOL

Zeratul: You will die marine! *vanishes appears right behind the Rubric Marine* *stabs him*

Rubric Marine:

Loading Video...

Zeratul:

Loading Video...

Zeratul: *gets riddled with bolter rounds to every inch of his body*

Thel: I guess we wont be trying to stab that marine eh Ripa?

Ripa: Yeah i guess so *laughs*

lol

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deactivated-5dace575ce059

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@savageslayer: Eh actually since these are very basic marines and its half job on and half pwnage on it kinda balances, Granted imo SM/CSM still win due to imo superior individual overall stats, team two does have a shot with a few of the heavy hitters like the vet pred and stuff whom imo would out do wolves, wolves aren't the best in hand to hand.

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Aressword

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@savageslayer: Thank you for the advice, although as I've said a lot of them are bolter resistance, all weapons can pierce, and that Marine team's auto targeting systems, and other systems like that is offline. These are only the very basic marines. Predator vets are prolly just as skilled as them as well including the space wolf. He won't be besting him easily, not with them being mid feats. Thank you for the answer it was quite nice though!

@dedmanwalkin: Thats part of her standard gear is to have a nuke not from her universe to be launched and kill the other team? If by somehow that is her normal gear, then no nukes allowed or anything of that sort, just as I've said standard gear.

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DedmanWalkin

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@aressword: Yes, every Terran Ghost has the ability to call for nuclear strikes.

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Aressword

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#25  Edited By Aressword

@dedmanwalkin: Then how come they hardly use it? Either way ill be taking that out then. I thought it was only used on a special occasion because from the cut scenes i see, its hardly used at all. With that said whom would win?

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DedmanWalkin

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@aressword: Zeratul Solos if no Auspex and needs some help from his team with Auspex.

By the way, @wut, Rubric Marines die just as easily to his Warp Blade as anyone else. In fact, given their psionic nature, his Warp Blade will likely kill them in one strike. The Warp Blade actually destabilizes any type of psionic energy, this is why it makes the ideal weapon to kill an Overmind. Heck, Kerrigan or Zeratul may be able to just order the Rubric Marine.

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Wut

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@dedmanwalkin: Doubt they would be able to control the Marine. The only being ever shown to be able to 'take' over a rubric marine out of someone else's control (Which as I mentioned before, I am assuming the case is this Rubric Marine is working as if he was under the command of a sorcerer as without the sorcerer, the Rubric Marine would be fairly harmless) is Ahriman, and neither Zeratul nor Kerrigan are close to Ahriman's level.

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deactivated-5dace575ce059

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@wut: no mind powers and he even said no offensive things like so deadmanwalkin got nothing on that.

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DedmanWalkin

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@killerwasp:
Nothing I listed was an offensive move. The Warp Blade is powered by psionics but is still tech.

@wut: There is no psionic here to control the Rubric Marine, there is no one on the Marine side to give orders to the Rubric Marine. In that void, Zeratul and Kerrigan and heck even Delta could take control. Even with a Sorceror or Ahriman giving commands, the Warp Blade could disrupt their control and allow Zeratul to input his commands.

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deactivated-5dace575ce059

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@dedmanwalkin: "Heck, Kerrigan or Zeratul may be able to just order the Rubric Marine."<-- Yes u did. Tahts offensive ability.

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DedmanWalkin

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@killerwasp: Nope, the Rubric Marine is designed to receive orders, when no orders are received anyone can do it.

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Wut

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#32  Edited By Wut

@dedmanwalkin: Again, I said I was working under the assumption that the Rubric Marine is working as if a Sorcerer was controlling them. They are a soul stuck in the power armor, if you stab it and 'disrupt' the soul, itself, it would not severe the link as Sorcerers bring their Rubric Marines back from the dead and stick the souls into new armor, so no, 'disrupting' it would more likely severe its connection to the armor, which would render the Rubric Marine into just empty power armor.

EDIT: Are you serious? Even if what you said worked, it wouldn't, Ahriman would take it right back from Zeratul. Ahriman is on another level.

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deactivated-5dace575ce059

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@dedmanwalkin: lol dude u didnt hve a clue what the rubric marine was until wut told u what it did. they need a soc nothing on the other team can do that because thats an offensive ability

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DedmanWalkin

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@killerwasp: During our Space Marine versus the Gorgon debate, I was doing research to give me an understanding of them. I eventually found all the various versions of them and read through synopses of them. You act like Google isn't a thing.

Let's change things, let's say that instead of require psionic commands, the Rubric Marine it took voice commands. Is it an attack to say, "Stop doing that" to someone? If your answer is yes then you are being ridiculous, if your answer is no then you are wrong. So it is your choice, ridiculous or wrong?

@wut: The Warp Blade is a weapon that is a fusion between Technology and Psionics designed to make the user's will happen. Zeratul is older than most and has used a Warp Blade for centuries. His skill with it is unmatched. He can slice the very orders out of the machine or completely destroy it based upon intensity. As long as his blade is stuck inside, he can rewrite the orders. Zeratul is smart, he'll put a backdoor in allowing him control. Ahriman is powerful sure but unless he is smart enough to detect the backdoor, he loses.

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Wut

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#35  Edited By Wut

@dedmanwalkin: Smart enough to detect a backdoor? Oh, if only he had pre-cog... Wait... he does have pre-cog... It is almost like he would see such a thing happening, or shocking, but someone that is far, far more versed in controlling Rubrics would have more control over them then Zeratul, because, hey, he is Zeratul. Not like having a 'backdoor' matters anyways because Ahriman overpowered an entire sorcerer cabal and ripped their Rubric Marines away from them, Zeratul is not standing against Ahriman in a tug of war.

Saying he can use it to reprogram machines is foolish in the first place because Rubric Marines are not machines (Also, back that up with lore evidence, I don't want to see wikia stuff). At all. They are suits of power armor powered by a trapped soul. Slicing through it to 'disrupt' is more likely to cause the soul, itself, to suffer problems which is not a big deal as the Sons can bring it back and attach it to a new suit.

As for the Space Marine vs Gorgon debate, the 'vents' on the back is not the air-filtration system. The 'vents' on the back are vents for heat. The air-filtration system is on the helmet.

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deactivated-5dace575ce059

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@dedmanwalkin: No google doesn't tell u everything especially the stuff listed for SM/CSM just because u read someone's work doesnt mean = lore. I'm not bashing u for it, but seriously he said no mind powers.

"Let's change things, let's say that instead of require psionic commands, the Rubric Marine it took voice commands. Is it an attack to say, "Stop doing that" to someone? If your answer is yes then you are being ridiculous, if your answer is no then you are wrong. So it is your choice, ridiculous or wrong?"<-- uh lets not, because there two different things.... Here let me turn it around is using voice commands the same as psionic commands? Hint no its not and it'd be utterly silly to think otherwise.

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DedmanWalkin

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#37  Edited By DedmanWalkin

@wut: Precog doesn't work here because Zeratul's cloak generates a field of altered space/time. We know this because when Zeratul traveled back in time and told Raynor not to kill Kerrigan, he didn't cease to be and his memories never left him. This makes them immune to things such as that.

Echoes of the Future details Zeratul using his Warp Blade to extricate an echo of Tassadar from inside the Overmind. Souls are just psionic energy, something that Protoss are masters at manipulating. I assume you also know that the Protoss commonly use "souls" to run various bits of technology. The Dragoon from SC1 is actually a former Zealot who "died" that the Protoss has brought back to fight again. Fenix is the most notable example. Minds are machines, nothing more than biological computers. What do you think hypnosis and various other forms of mental manipulation are? Fact is, the entire Ad Industry relies on being able to reprogram people. The fact that Rubric Marines are already "programmable" just makes it so much easier to manipulate them. Through the use of Post-Hypnotic Suggestions, Zeratul can retake command of the Rubric Marine with a thought. Here is the cool part, Ahriman never really retakes control, the Rubric Marine just starts taking orders from him.

Unless you have something that contradicts this then you are wrong about the vents:

No Caption Provided

@killerwasp Hold on, unless you can counter a Wikia's information then so long as it is sourced, it is perfectly valid. So what information am I functioning on that is false?

Nope, not too different thing. A command is a command is a command. How it is given is only relevant to the input device. If I tell someone to pick up the ball with my voice or use telepathy, it is all the same. Whether they do it depends on how much power is put into each command. Ahriman just yells louder at Rubric Marines than everyone else so that they can't hear anyone but him. Sonic, Psionic, it is all just energy. Insofar as there is no psionic input to the Rubric Marine, it is just going to stand there until ANYONE gives it input. This is like finding a TV remote and turning on a TV.

Maybe you should Google Protoss, you'd find that they have NO MOUTHS to speak with so they have to use telepathy to talk. Saying they can't use their telepathy is like saying they can't communicate with their team which is "personal defensive." The fact that Rubric Marines just happen to take psionic input is just awesome.

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Wut

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#38  Edited By Wut

@dedmanwalkin: Precog doesn't work here because Zeratul's cloak generates a field of altered space/time. We know this because when Zeratul traveled back in time and told Raynor not to kill Kerrigan, he didn't cease to be and his memories never left him. This makes them immune to things such as that.

No, it doesn't. In 40k, an Ork went back in time, killed the earlier version of himself, and still existed. Time travel exist inside 40k, people do not 'stop existing' despite preforming actions in the past and they do not lose said memories. Nothing you said makes precog not work. Otherwise there would be no point in Orikan going back in time to change his decisions as he would forget why he did them, or the change would render the reason he went back in the first place void thus creating an infinite loop. This does not happen, which means, your point is void and Pre-cog works.

Echoes of the Future details Zeratul using his Warp Blade to extricate an echo of Tassadar from inside the Overmind. Souls are just psionic energy, something that Protoss are masters at manipulating. I assume you also know that the Protoss commonly use "souls" to run various bits of technology. The Dragoon from SC1 is actually a former Zealot who "died" that the Protoss has brought back to fight again. Fenix is the most notable example. Minds are machines, nothing more than biological computers. What do you think hypnosis and various other forms of mental manipulation are? Fact is, the entire Ad Industry relies on being able to reprogram people. The fact that Rubric Marines are already "programmable" just makes it so much easier to manipulate them. Through the use of Post-Hypnotic Suggestions, Zeratul can retake command of the Rubric Marine with a thought. Here is the cool part, Ahriman never really retakes control, the Rubric Marine just starts taking orders from him.

Ah, no. Ahriman out right rips control away from the other sorcerers. He doesn't go, "Dudes, don't shot... even though they told you to shoot," He takes control away from them.

I am aware, but that doesn't matter. The Dragoons control themselves, Zealots do not stab them and 'reprogram' them, if this worked like that there would be no reason as to why Kerrigan could not control them.

I don't see any in-lore evidence to support anything you say. I do not see any in-lore of Zeratul 'reprogramming' anything using his blades. In fact you posted nothing worth while, so again, post some in-lore feats. There is no 'mind' inside a Rubric Marine, there is no 'brain', there is a lack of electrical impulses and chemicals, they are nothing but dust inside that armor. The suit, itself, is being run by the soul of the Marine, so unless you have an in-lore example of Zeratul doing something akin to hacking and hardwiring a soul... he can't.

Just so you understand, when I say I want feats, I want scans or quotes from the source.

Unless you have something that contradicts this then you are wrong about the vents:

Respirator Vox Grill: The vox grill can amplify a Space Marine's battle cries to deafening volumes. It also contains a respirator to filter out toxins and can be shut off with a thought, drawing instead upon an internal oxygen supply. - Space Marines 6th Edition Codex

Unless you are suggesting they are filtering out the oxygen on the inside... despite... the respirator grill being on the outside.... which would make no sense because shutting it off would mean they would then draw upon an internal oxygen supply... which would suggest the air comes through the filter on their helmet.

On the back pack:

Backpack Power Unit: This houses the primary power core for Space Marine armour, as well as reserve cells and an emergency solar collector. - Space Marines 6th Edition Codex.

The backpack is what powers the armor.

On the vents,

Temperature Regulator: Power armour automatically maintains the Space Marine's temperature. Heat is provided by the power core and thermal build-up can be vented via the back'packs distinctive nozzles. As a result, a Space Marine can fight anywhere, in the cold vacuum of space or the raging heart of a volcano, without even noticing the change of temperature. - Space Marines 6th Edition Codex.

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deactivated-5dace575ce059

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@dedmanwalkin: "Hold on, unless you can counter a Wikia's information then so long as it is sourced, it is perfectly valid. So what information am I functioning on that is false?"<-- Well that depends on where you wanna start, but the better question is Why would u rely on wiki and then come to us as if you had known everything? wikis are not bad for base info, but to form an answer that someone can solo because you used limited knowledge on such then thats not necessary best way to approach things.

"Nope, not too different thing. A command is a command is a command.<-- no it's not, I command u to stop typing, would u listen? No, you wouldnt. He can command the SM to stop, but they wouldnt because they dont listen to xenos. In the end its not the same so stop trying to mix it and act like its the same. Mind control is out of here, his own words "No warp,magic,physic powers unless its a personal defensive or if it forms your weapon; aka Zeratul."<--Mind control is a weapon, you dont command ur enemies to stop fighting you without either killing their leader, showing extreme power, or mind control.

"How it is given is only relevant to the input device. If I tell someone to pick up the ball with my voice or use telepathy, it is all the same."<--.... you even said it what is telepathy?!?! It is using powers to do so, regardless of what it is. In the end 1 sm/csm would not listen if they were simply asked not to fight, and 2 if u controlled them thats against the rules. Seriously how hard is that to grasp?

"Maybe you should Google Protoss, you'd find that they have NO MOUTHS to speak with so they have to use telepathy to talk. Saying they can't use their telepathy is like saying they can't communicate with their team which is "personal defensive." The fact that Rubric Marines just happen to take psionic input is just awesome."<-- ik what protoss are, good sir i've played the games and read some of the books. Maybe you should stop trying to twist telepathy with simple communication. Also while you're at it Google both and tell me how exactly they are the same.

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DedmanWalkin

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@wut: You ring up that Ork alot because it is your only real example of time travel not functioning as it should. Does the Ork do anything of note after this instance? Is he referred to in anyway in anything other than that single instance? Furthermore can you prove that he went back in time? Because you just mention that he fought himself. What if he went into the future? He could then steal his own gun from himself thus creating a stable time loop so long as he dies in the future at his own hand. I really want to read this text because not only is every reference to it vague, it is also ridiculous.

Orikan likely uses the same tech that Deathmark Snipers do to appear outside of space/time so he tell himself the difference without fear of temporal paradox.

No, Ahriman just yells louder and drowns out every other voice making his voice the only thing that the Marine hears. It is exactly how Professor X can use Cerebro to overwhelm powerful TP resistance and seize control. It all comes down to psionic energy. Warp Blades disrupt or dampen Psionic Energy allowing him to sneak in. He could do the same to Kerrigan if he could get his Blade in without her killing him.
You think that the Blade is doing the job? No, the Blade is simply dampening the signal so that he can use his telepathy to get in and do the job. He couldn't reach Tassadar's Echo without dampening the psionic power of the corpse of the Overmind enough to find it. Dragoons hold the full psionic presence of the Protoss not an echo like Rubric Marines. They have full minds, full comprehension, and can act independently.

Also your disdain of Wikias is odd considering that every "quote" you have here comes from it. Your quotes aren't even from the source unless the Wikia is wholesale plagiarizing the Codexes. Given Games Workshops litigious nature, I can't imagine they'd let that stand.

How about instead of posting just small bits of the wikia you are posting from you post the entire thing!

The main power source for the suit of Power Armour is located in the suit's backpack. This highly-efficient sub-atomic microfusion reactor core provides the power for all internal systems. The suit does contain a reserve power supply and a back-up micro-solar panel array in case of emergencies. The reserve power source can be recharged via the solar panel, and when fully charged should provide enough power to last for a standard month (as long as all non-vital systems are disabled) without the need for major maintenance or resupply. Thermal waste dissipators form the characteristic nozzles on either side of the backpack. This thermal waste can also be used for limited maneuvering in zero-gravity. The backpack also contains the suit's supply of oxygen and air purification system that allows the wearer to breath in toxic or vacuum environments. Combined with the Space Marine's own Multi-lung organ implant, the wearer can operate unhindered in any atmosphere, as well as underwater and in hard vacuum. Air intakes are also located on the backpack. The lower part of the backpack is the armour's temperature regulation system. In combat, with the suit functioning at maximum capacity, heat can build up quite rapidly. Settings for heat control can be adjusted depending upon the environment the suit is operating in, obviously retaining more heat in frigid conditions or the -278 degrees centigrade environment of deep space than in tropical or desert conditions. In planetary environments, the suit's internal Cogitator will always optimise conditions to match the world's mean average temperature. Within the armour, the wearer will experience only minor temperature fluctuations as the suit maintains the correct temperature to keep the Space Marine operating at peak physical efficiency in any environment.

I got it from the same page you got your text from!

Looks like we have 2 contradictory pieces of information!!! Guess what that means? Unreliable Narrator comes into effect. Whenever a piece of contradictory information comes up, we can assume one is simply misinformation being spread by the narrator. Your information is just propaganda spread by the Imperium and you fell for it hook, line, and sinker! I love that everything is canon!

Heck, we even find a better way to kill a space marine in the text. Since the backpack serves as a heat sink for the armor, Gorgon could just redirect the nozzles until it builds up so much heat that his suit explodes!

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DedmanWalkin

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@killerwasp: If you have the sources to disprove what I am getting from Wikias then by all means but we both know you don't. Have you seen the entry on Rubric Marines? It is 6 pages long! That isn't "base info" as you suggest it gives the entire history of them. Maybe you should actually read up on them in the wikia! Maybe you should tell the OP to read up on them otherwise he'd know that putting one in without an allied telepath is foolish.

Did you know that Ads actually can command action from you without you even knowing? Guess what, they figured out what inputs they could use to produce the desired results. It is called conditioning and humans respond pretty well to it. Your text-based command was not accepted because I don't respond to those inputs. Commands are all the same, it is just the input that matters. Rubric Marines accept telepathic commands from ANY psionic presence strong enough to drown out everyone else. Who on the enemy team is strong enough to drown out Kerrigan or Zeratul? See, the inputs match so the commands can be used. It is not my fault that Team 1 has no means of making use of the inputs, I didn't make the thread.

According to @wut, there is no MIND inside a Rubric Marine so how is it MIND CONTROL? Are you contradicting your buddy? Rubric Marines are just drones waiting for a command. The Rubric Marine isn't an enemy it is just a tool that Team 1 brought that they can't use.

Just so you know, Telepathy is just communication between 2 psionics. Telepathy can be used to control people if they know how to manipulate it like Ads do. All forms of communication can be used for control and command. How do you think Hitler was a thing?

It is like you don't understand your 40K as well as I do.

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Wut

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#42  Edited By Wut

@dedmanwalkin: You ring up that Ork alot because it is your only real example of time travel not functioning as it should. Does the Ork do anything of note after this instance? Is he referred to in anyway in anything other than that single instance? Furthermore can you prove that he went back in time? Because you just mention that he fought himself. What if he went into the future? He could then steal his own gun from himself thus creating a stable time loop so long as he dies in the future at his own hand. I really want to read this text because not only is every reference to it vague, it is also ridiculous.

LOL, yea, that is it. It isn't like I can pull numerous reference of warp travel causing people to arrive weeks before they left. (As in, they leave in December, but got there November... of the same year...) which is exactly what happened here.

978.41 The Lost Waaagh!

The Ork Warlord Grizgutz, a noted kleptomanic, launches his Waaagh! into the Morloq system. Whilst using the Warp travel to reach their quarry, Grizgutz and his warband unwittingly travel through time and emerge from the shifting chaos of the Empyrean shortly before they set off. Grizgutz hunts down and kills his doppelganger, reasoning that this way he can have a spare of his favourite gun. The resultant confusion stops the Waaagh! in its tracks. - Orks 7th Edition Codex

Yea, your move.

Orikan likely uses the same tech that Deathmark Snipers do to appear outside of space/time so he tell himself the difference without fear of temporal paradox.

That would make sense if Orikan did not use a secret method he guards to travel back down his own timeline. Deathmarks step out of time via another dimension, Orikan travels back in time, directly. They are not the same. Especially since it says Orikan goes back down his own timeline and makes the changes himself, not that he goes back via another dimension and just has a chat with his younger self.

No, Ahriman just yells louder and drowns out every other voice making his voice the only thing that the Marine hears. It is exactly how Professor X can use Cerebro to overwhelm powerful TP resistance and seize control. It all comes down to psionic energy. Warp Blades disrupt or dampen Psionic Energy allowing him to sneak in. He could do the same to Kerrigan if he could get his Blade in without her killing him.

You know what? How about we just look at the source.

+This will work?+ Ahriman smiled. He looked at the army of Rubricae gathered in the hangar. He spoke their names, rolling them through the warp like the notes of a song. Other minds rose to oppose him, but he poured his will into the song of names. The warp felt like a river of fire as it flowed through him. The Rubricae stopped firing. Astraeos looked at Ahriman as if he had never really seen him before. +It’s not over yet,+ sent Ahriman. He could feel the sorcerers who stood at the back of the ranks of Rubricae recoiling in shock at what had just happened. There were thirty-six of them.

A good number and all were powerful, but not powerful enough. The air became heavy, laden with static and the scent of ozone. He felt the wills of the thirty-six sorcerers push into the warp. Huge pieces of wrecked machinery rose into the air as if pulled on invisible chains. Ahriman nodded to himself as if impressed. The pieces of wreckage hurtled towards him. His mind reached out and plunged into each piece of twisted metal. He felt their weight, their dimensions, and the spinning of their atoms. He formed a thought, and it caught in the warp like a spark set to kindling. The wreckage dissolved as it flew, falling to the deck as a rain of fine metallic sand.

Pg.192, Ahriman: Exile - Credits for this one go to Strider

He spoke their names to take control of them away from the sorcerers, so, no, he did not just 'yell louder then everyone else', he used their names to establish a link then used his own power to force them out and assume control. He could 'establish' a link simply by connect his mind with theirs as he has mindraped people before, no, saying their names was a crucial step which makes sense since, you know, Ahriman made the Rubric Marines.

You think that the Blade is doing the job? No, the Blade is simply dampening the signal so that he can use his telepathy to get in and do the job. He couldn't reach Tassadar's Echo without dampening the psionic power of the corpse of the Overmind enough to find it. Dragoons hold the full psionic presence of the Protoss not an echo like Rubric Marines. They have full minds, full comprehension, and can act independently.

Uh, no, I am saying that if his blade disrupted the soul, it would not, in any way, let him 'assume control'.

But you know what I love? That you didn't post the feat I asked.

Also your disdain of Wikias is odd considering that every "quote" you have here comes from it. Your quotes aren't even from the source unless the Wikia is wholesale plagiarizing the Codexes. Given Games Workshops litigious nature, I can't imagine they'd let that stand.

How about instead of posting just small bits of the wikia you are posting from you post the entire thing!

I got it from the same page you got your text from!

Oh, this is adorable.

You know what? Let us play, I will write out the entire page from the Space Marine Codex, just for you. If it is bolded in the page, it will be bolded and italicized.

Auto-Senses: A Space Marine's helmet contains most of his armour's combat systems, all of which are referred to by one title - auto-senses. These include thought-activated comms-augers and audio-filters, targeting reticules and range finders, tactical displays and asupex-links, and a host of other features that further enhance the Space Marine's senses.

Photolenses: Photolenses protect the Space Marine from dazzling light bursts. They also allow him to see into the infrared and ultraviolet ranges, as enabling vision in low-light conditions.

Respirator Vox Grill: The vox grill can amplify a Space Marine's battle cries to deafening volumes. It also contains a respirator to filter out toxins and can be shut off with a thought, drawing instead upon an internal oxygen supply.

Auto Responsive Shoulder Plates:Shaped to deflect as well as absorb incoming blows, they typically display Adeptus Astartes identification markings, including Chapter symbols, company and squad markings, as well as many other honour badges.

Chestpiece: Designed to protect armoured power cables. Typically adorned with the Imperial Aquila.

Backpack Power Unit: This houses the primary power core for Space Marine armour, as well as reserve cells and an emergency solar collector.

Life Signs Monitor:Power armour contains a suit of life-support functions including an auto-medicae equipped with various painkillers, combat stimulants and anti-venoms.

Temperature Regulator: Power armour automatically maintains the Space Marine's temperature. Heat is provided by the power core and thermal build-up can be vented via the back'packs distinctive nozzles. As a result, a Space Marine can fight anywhere, in the cold vacuum of space or the raging heart of a volcano, without even noticing the change of temperature.

Nutrient Reservoir: Power armour contains a self-replenishing, high-energy liquid food store that can sustain a Space Marine's metabolism without need for further nourishment. During battle, there is no need for a Space Marine to stop to eat or drink.

Reinforced Greaves: These incorporate gyroscopic stabilisers and power units taht can magnetise the souls of the armour's boots.

But you know what? You are so adorable, that I am going to post the next page as well because you have offended me with your sheer arrogance in believing that just because you lack the means to get feats from the source that everyone else must rely on the same wikis that are open to change and modification by anyone walking by.

Chapter Organisation (Large, bold letters, with a picture of skulls, a shield, and the codex written by Guli)

As written in the revered Codex Astartes, the organisation of a Space Marine Chapter comprises a thousand battle-brothers under arms - a seemingly small number, yet a gathering of might enough to conquer star systems and alter the fate of the galaxy itself.

Each of the ten companies of a Chapter comprises one hundred battle-brothers, led by a Captain, a veteran of countless wars. A company is organised into ten squads of ten Space Marines, led by a Sergeant. Space Marine companies are fairly autonomous fighting organisations, with their own command structure, vehicles and spacecraft.

Of the ten companies, the 1st consists of the Chapter’s most experienced veterans, and is therefore the most powerful. The veterans of the 1st Company are masters of all battlefield roles and are trained to fight in revered suits of Terminator armour. Most of the Chapter’s commanders serve with the Veteran Company at some point. It is extremely rare for the Veteran Company to be deployed en masse – its units normally take to the field alongside the Chapter’s Battle Companies.

The Codex Astartes decrees that the 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th Companies are designated Battle Companies, which form the main battle lines and generally carry the weight of a Chapter’s combat duties. Each Battle Company consists of six Tactical Squads, two Assault Squads, and two Devastator Squads. The Assault Squads may be deployed as Bike Squads or Land Speeder crews and, along with their Devastator brethren, may even take to battle as Centurion warsuit pilots. Most Space Marine deployments will consist of a single Battle Company, heavily reinforced by elements of the Veteran, Scout and Reserve Companies.

The ‘Companies of Reserve’ are entirely composed of squads of the same designation. They normally act in support of the Battle Companies and provide a source of replacements for any casualties suffered by the line formations. The 6th and 7th Companies are Tactical Companies, each consisting of ten Tactical Squads. The 6th Company also trains in the use of bikes and may be deployed entirely as bike squadrons. Similarly, squads of the 7th Company are trained to fight with Land Speeders and Stormtalons, often acting as a light vehicle reserve formation.

The 8th Company is the Assault Company and consists of ten Assault Squads. It is most often used in an invasion role, or wherever a strong hand-to-hand fighting force is needed.

The 9th Company is the Devastator Company, consisting of ten Devastator Squads. It is the most heavily equipped company in the Chapter, providing unparalleled fire support.

The 10th Company is made up entirely of Scouts – new recruits whose physical transformation and training is incomplete. The Codex Astartes dictates no formal size for the 10th Company, as the rate of recruitment is not fixed.

All of the companies, except the Scout Company, maintain a fleet of Rhino and Razorback transports. The Veteran Company also has a permanent complement of Land Raiders and Stormravens for carrying Terminators into the heart of battle. A Chapter’s other armoured vehicles form a pool, maintained by the Armoury, that each Company Captain can draw upon. Many companies also include a number of Dreadnoughts, which remain a part of the company in which they served before being interred in the sarcophagus. Their presence greatly bolsters their company’s might.

Every Space Marine Chapter also includes a number of officers and specialists who provide essential battlefield support, spiritual leadership and destructive combat abilities. These individuals are collectively known as the headquarters staff and include Librarians, Chaplains, Techmarines and Apothecaries.

Over all of these mighty warriors presides the Chapter Master, chosen from the greatest of the Chapter’s Captains. He alone is responsible for the deeds of the Chapter, and answers directly to the Administratum. To wield such power requires steely determination, great wisdom and mighty sacrifice – qualities that are, thankfully, not found wanting in the Adeptus Astartes."

Oh, and the quote on the bottom of the page says:

'We follow in the footsteps of Guiliman.

As it is written in the Codex, so shall it be.'

- Marneus Calgar.

My reputation as someone who can back up something he says in 40k with quotes has never failed, something you have never done in any of our arguments. If you want, we can even play a game, you pick a page number, and I shall type it from the 6th Edition Space Marine Codex from which all the above came from.

Looks like we have 2 contradictory pieces of information!!! Guess what that means? Unreliable Narrator comes into effect. Whenever a piece of contradictory information comes up, we can assume one is simply misinformation being spread by the narrator. Your information is just propaganda spread by the Imperium and you fell for it hook, line, and sinker! I love that everything is canon!

Lol no, you know what happens? We look at the suit they are wearing, cause you see, my friend, that picture you posted? The one I am so sure you are proud of is a Mark 6. The Chaos Marines use Mark 5. The Loyalist Marines use Mark 7 which is what is in the Space Marine codex... you would have noticed this if you looked at the HELMETS.Mark 6 are rarely used and tactical marines, which is what is in this thread, use Mark 7.

You would have noticed the beak helmet which is what the Mark 6 had does not have a vox grill on it unlike the Mark 5 and Mark 7. You would further notice that the Vox Grill has the filtration system in it, that it is what you would have to block in order to 'suffocate' a space marine.

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deactivated-5dace575ce059

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@dedmanwalkin: "If you have the sources to disprove what I am getting from Wikias then by all means but we both know you don't. Have you seen the entry on Rubric Marines? It is 6 pages long! That isn't "base info" as you suggest it gives the entire history of them. Maybe you should actually read up on them in the wikia!"<-- have u even read the codexes, and uh huh i can't prove that wrong? Right of course says the guy who argued without having zero knowledge about person and claimed it was a stomp. As for your wikias are they credited in schools? No, you know why? Because their an unreliable source. You know what schools do? They use them as a reference board to bounce off of and search the actual content.... Now can i prove them wrong, sure i already have before, but do i care??No because its simply not worth my time to do a little bit of digging and then come up with something, but if u you really want me to find something wrong with wikias i could provide that because unlike yourself I've read the codexes.

" Maybe you should tell the OP to read up on them otherwise he'd know that putting one in without an allied telepath is foolish."<-- dont try to put this as allied telepath, u wanted to use it on the other team that makes it offense. I see you also didn't bother to look up the both and tell me they were the same. Congrats is it because we both know I'm right? Yeah.

"Did you know that Ads actually can command action from you without you even knowing? Guess what, they figured out what inputs they could use to produce the desired results. It is called conditioning and humans respond pretty well to it."<-- you know that this literally means nothing, and that you're trying to compare normal humans with basically a ghost who's got oh idk Telepathy resistance, knows what it is, and is basically a ghost, so much for reading eh? A

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dontevenblink

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sorry, this hurts my brain to look at. lol!

maybe try a toned down version of this with like a third of those characters at a time. ;)

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Aressword

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#45  Edited By Aressword

@dontevenblink: How does it hurt your brain, and why would I tone it down? I'm tired of seeing the little cute fights that happen. I want to see people's opinion on this fight because I was curious there isn't a lot of factors what so ever in this, its simple do you think that person could take out one of the enemies, if he can how many, if he can't what can he do to aid his team, and so on. Next time just try to think about it before giving up completely within the first few seconds because you couldn't throw 1 word answer. :)

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Eisenfauste

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I say 4-5 marines die tops, everyone else on team 2 is going down in a good fight though. They're armor won't be stopping mach 3 .75 cal bullets that pulp people.

I would say jango and boba can survive via their armor but an alien race in 40k had super durable armor that wasn't scratched by the .75 cal rounds, but the kinetic impact killed them anyway.....

You should have put a couple eversors on team 2 with power swords for the heck of it ;)

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deactivated-5dace575ce059

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@eisenfauste: this aint my thread lol, i was merely suggesting u to check it out lol. I wouldn't of added a few weak links in here. But with no sensors i think the elites will get a few kills along with the vet pred.

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DedmanWalkin

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@killerwasp:
According to WUT, I have been reading Codexes the entire time since all his quotes come from Codexes but also are directly posted to the wikias! So how is my information not as good if it is the exact same as what you guys have? You have to disprove every instance not just assume that every instance is false. If my information, which comes directly from codexes, is wrong you have to show that.

Protoss literally can't talk to anyone without telepathy. They can't talk to the enemy or their allies without it. Telepathy is not an offensive weapon but like damn near everything, can be weaponized. Are you saying that both teams cannot talk to one another? Rubric Marines have no TP resistance, they literally respond to any commands given to them telepathically. Space Marines may have TP resistance but Rubric Marines do not, being ghosts and all. Communication is not offensive so it is a viable strategy. Even then, Zeratul can still kill the entirety of team 1 with no real issue.

@wut: Hold on, it is called the LOST Waaagh! and you are using it as evidence? You realize Lost means that it has not been found right? Does Grizgutz do anything after this? Or is he just LOST in a continual timeloop? It is called a localized time loop and they happen in multiple science fiction universes WITHOUT proving the entire universe is ACAUSAL. There is an awesome episode of Star Trek where they get locked in a localized time loop. There is also an awesome episode of Stargate that deals with the same thing. The episode of Stargate even explains that while locked in the localized time loop, the outside universe moved through time normally. The Tok'ra were unable to contact Earth for months while the Earth kept resetting every day. Grizgutz is just Bill Murray in his own suicidal Groundhog Day! Also, nice quote from a Wikia!

Has Orikan ever explained his "secret method he guards to time travel" even in the codexes? I am guessing no but I'll let you check. Now since it is secret we get to use logic to determine how he does it, remember Occam's Razor from before? So we have to build the simplest means of Orikan being able to perform his acts and still achieve the canon effects. Now Orikan would have to be able to time travel but since they have access to FTL travel, that could be performed rather easily. Now the only way to actually alter the future would be to protect himself from the effects of paradox. Deathmark Snipers use technology that could allow them to do so, right? So he uses the FTL to time travel and then uses Deathmark tech to shield himself from Paradox. Can you come up with a simpler means of achieving his goals that does not invent things that have not already been shown? I am also guessing this is also a no.

So Ahriman used a backdoor into them to regain control, that is even worse. I thought he was just drowning out the commands of other psionics, he is just overriding them.

The Psionic Blade, like most machines, can vary in intensity depending on how much "gas" it is given. More psionic energy allows him to completely kill a psionic entity a little energy allows him to dampen it like he did with the Overmind to get to Tassadar's echo. That sounds familiar doesn't it? Almost like he would be using his blade to dampen the control of the sorceror so that he could get to the Rubric Marine's psionic echo.

I gave you the name of the mission, you can read up on it or watch a video for free! If you really want to be so picky on scans and such then all of your quotes are pretty much useless. They are just "transcriptions" not actual scans. I am not spending 20-40 dollars on a codex just to verify that you aren't lying. Given that, post the actual pages! This is why arguments over scans are freaking ridiculous. There is a concept in debate known as good faith. I have given you no reason to suspect that I am lying and have provided you with an example. Given that you have previously stated that there is no "computers" in power armor when the quote from before DIRECTLY states that there are, you can't be trusted. You have willingly stated that Power Armors can't be hacked because they have no computers or whatever ridiculous reason you tell yourself. Cogitators are computers!

I really couldn't care less about what version of armor they are. You have yet to post a real scan detailing how the system works. Of course the Vox Grill has an air purifier, it is located on the back like most air purification systems.

I love how both of you have no real defense against Zeratul and this is really a debate on how well he destroys the enemy team.

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@dedmanwalkin: "I love how both of you have no real defense against Zeratul and this is really a debate on how well he destroys the enemy team."<-- lets start from this very line. As usual i read someone's posts before posting myself. What amazes me is that you say this, yet it clearly shows you have a very hard time reading? Because you would know that wut actually said that team 2 wins, but you know since hes debating against you that must be invalid and that he secretly believes that team 1 still wins. LOL. Also you have failed to provide how Zeratul will solo a group of marines who literally match him in reaction speed and technically in weaponry. Ill let that slide though since you are usually and almost 100% lost in the warhammer universe.

"According to WUT, I have been reading Codexes the entire time since all his quotes come from Codexes but also are directly posted to the wikias! So how is my information not as good if it is the exact same as what you guys have? You have to disprove every instance not just assume that every instance is false. If my information, which comes directly from codexes, is wrong you have to show that."<-- So let me get this straight, you say you know this from the codexes, yet you haven't read them yourself? Where do you get this idea that the site uses ever last word from the codex? In fact right there is a lie. You want some proof? Lets see here, down below is from the newest tau codex IIRC 6th edition, find this in wiki, because everything on wikia is from the codex. In fact i want you to find me where it even says what is underlined or something similar to it.

To be born into the Fire caste is to be born for battle.

Bred for generations to maximize size and strength, these

warriors-to-be are enrolled in Fire caste academies as soon as

they can walk, institutions whose sole purpose is to produce

soldiers to serve the growing Tau Empire. There they are

rigorously prepared, in mind and body, to become Fire

Warriors - the professional infantry that forms the backbone

of the Hunter Cadres of every sept. It is said with pride

that behind every Fire Warrior stands thousands of years of

training in the military arts and instruction in the laws of the

Code of Fire: honour, obedience, duty and self-sacrifice.

-Codex: Tau Empire 6th Edition

In addition

"So how is my information not as good if it is the exact same as what you guys have? You have to disprove every instance not just assume that every instance is false. If my information, which comes directly from codexes, is wrong you have to show that."<-- Alright as shown up above please do quote this exactly from wikia in fact show me or better yet link me the page that has the quoted exactly. Do please prove me wrong, and i shall bow down to the all mighty deadmanwalkin. Here's a hint, i double checked to make sure i didn't miss it anywhere at all, and you know what? I didn't see it, yet im sure you will find it.

Furthermore, the point I was trying to make is that wikias as I've stated a billion times are not the best there is for info they give you basic knowledge and cover a lot of ground to get in depth and know the difference is to read the novels/books and codexes provided by the actual people themselves who approve of this. If you were going to school and you used wiki as a source i doubt you're teacher would count that, at least mine didn't and they weren't even strict at all.

Protoss literally can't talk to anyone without telepathy. They can't talk to the enemy or their allies without it. <-- ..... I never said they couldn't chat with their friends, to use it as an offensive thing that is something different. Heck even eldar use a lot of tp to communicate the difference is they dont just walk up to a person OUT OF CHARACTER and say hey hows it going, let a lone even without character i doubt he would randomly walk up as things are happening.

Telepathy is not an offensive weapon but like damn near everything, can be weaponized.<-- watch your language, and who sparks it? You seem to think that the space marines and especially a rubric marine would suddenly forget all about tp and just follow orders when commanded, thats a rather silly kind of thought.

Are you saying that both teams cannot talk to one another? Rubric Marines have no TP resistance, they literally respond to any commands given to them telepathically.<-- Says who, you? I'd like to see some proof form your all mighty wikia to state this, and then i might considered it after i dug into the codexes to confirm it. In general i doubt it would even work and 2 they do have tp resistance just like anyone else for team 1. On top of that wut's been arguing that a soc would have to be there to control it, thus your argument flatten. Unless ares changes it or says otherwise, which in fact @aressword are you allowing a soc to be here or not to control the rubric marine?

"Space Marines may have TP resistance but Rubric Marines do not, being ghosts and all. Communication is not offensive so it is a viable strategy. Even then, Zeratul can still kill the entirety of team 1 with no real issue."<-- lol, just lol.