#101 Posted by Clark_EL (2650 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman takes this.

#102 Posted by Perezite (1432 posts) - - Show Bio

@walzo said:

@perezite:


Man of Steel was a meh movie because of it's lack of character development besides the main three, bad directing and horrid pacing issues. It had nice moments, but none that made me have goosebumps.

Question: are you a Marvel fanboy?

#103 Posted by Fifthchild (599 posts) - - Show Bio

Is there any reason to believe that Superman could avoid Thor's lightning? Or that it wouldnt effect them? From what i've seen/heard the Kryptonians were fast and used their speed properly in combat but they weren't that fast given that humans could aparently target/fire on them and Avengers Hulk was shown to be pretty explosive and had some decent speed in catching Mjolnir and the ejecting pilot.

I've no doubt superspeed would be in the Kryptonians favour (as it bloody well should be) but i'm getting the impression people are giving the Krytponians too much credit, quite possibly based on how people feel about their comic book counterparts. Again, massive disclaimer - i havent actually seen the film :-\

#104 Edited by P0rtal (872 posts) - - Show Bio

The Avengers take this without any problem. Superman couldn't even lift a tiny little section of an oil rig without almost dying when it collapsed on him. WEAKEST, SLOWEST, DUMBEST version of Superman to ever exist...EVER. He stands ZERO chance against a team like the Avengers. There is a reason he didn't go try to repair the city at the end of the movie, its because the Mayor came out and told him " Listen , you fool. You destroyed the entire city and it is clear you are not fast enough or strong enough to dodge any falling debris. I saw video of you getting knocked out cold from a small section of metal off that oil rig falling on you...imagine what might happen if you tried to go into that rubble of any of our citys buildings and it fell on you. You'd be dead. So, the only way you can help is to just leave and never return, you did a terrible job protecting everyone. Thousands are dead because of you, you were too stupid to take the fight elsewhere over water or somewhere AWAY from the center of the city. We'd have to build you a super special mech suit for your own protection, just to make sure no small pieces of metal fall and crush you to death...so either way you will cost the city more money just to repair it."

thats kinda how i see things

#105 Posted by Walzo (4355 posts) - - Show Bio

@perezite said:

@walzo said:

@perezite:


Man of Steel was a meh movie because of it's lack of character development besides the main three, bad directing and horrid pacing issues. It had nice moments, but none that made me have goosebumps.

Question: are you a Marvel fanboy?

Nope. I liked Green Lantern more than most people did, loved the Batman films. I do read more Marvel but that's just because I'm more interested in their characters than I am with most DC books, but I also am aware when Marvel f*cks up and DC does something right. I do feel as though this movie is worthy of a sequel and is okay for a opening to the JLA movie.

#106 Posted by King Saturn (224033 posts) - - Show Bio

@perezite said:

@king_saturn said:

I don't think The Avengers could beat Superman... considering how durable Superman was he would probably run through all of them.

That being said, I still think film for film... The Avengers was better than Man of Steel.

Question: what did the Avengers have on MoS, besides the hope that this is where the Marvel Cinematic Universe starts to get good?

1. Avengers had better pace to the film than Man of Steel did

2. MoS focus on some characters in the film was lackluster

#107 Edited by isaac_clarke (5448 posts) - - Show Bio

@lunacyde said:

I am sorry but first of all the only Avengers who matter at all are Hulk and Thor. If we look at the effect of their strikes on each other it is pretty clear Thor and Hulk cannot provide as much force in their blows as Kal-El. Secondly Kal has a significant speed advantage over both. Someone quoted Thor reacting to the Destroyer's beam was a speed feat...that beam was slow setting up I could have reacted to it. Thor and Hulk will land a few blows but honestly Kal can get in 5 for every one they can. Them there is Kal's durability which honestly allowed him to trade blows that destroyed half of metropolis without slowing down.

Hero slug-fests aren't always entirely accurate - realistically a fight between the Hulk and Thor in that movie would look like this:

With whomsoever striking first sending their opponent flying. Sort of like how the fight between them started with that bullrush on foot by Thor. Another worthy note was the Mjolnir strike that floored the Hulk, the same strike earlier in the film obliterated the trees in that forest into splinters (and that's with that shield cutting a good deal of that energy to boot). Then you have Thor's enhanced lightning strikes which honestly were pretty damn impressive in his film.

He swung the beam clear out of the way - that has nothing to do with charge up time. It's like saying you can play professional baseball because you know what direction the ball is coming in. Either way considering it's speed depicted earlier in the film that is one hell of a reaction feat and he did it pretty effortlessly.

@deranged_midgetsaid:

I would have to entirely take back my statement regarding the lightning attacks used against the Chitauri. I originally assumed that he was using the conductor to potentially build up power to launch back through Mjolnir but that's debatable as it was shown to absorb straight through his hammer and straight back out. The building merely acted as the lightning rod. Not stating or down-playing against Thor, merely pointing out my original mistake.

Well to paint it in a different light remember when Thor more or less squats off that hill to over-power Iron Man's propulsion (which is being amped up nearly 5x) slamming them both back into the ground hard enough to still smash through those trees below? Showings like that give the impression he could have sent the damn thing flying with any effort - instead of into the two chitauri to crush them. It's also worth noting the facial expressions of a Thor after being stabbed by Loki isn't probably the best indicator of effort on his part. Just pretend the car was a golf ball.

Good point to raise for that second bit; I didn't take it as you attempting to downplay anything so nothing to worry there. Either way that charged attack isn't likely to see use here.

@perezite said:

@walzo said:

@perezite:


Man of Steel was a meh movie because of it's lack of character development besides the main three, bad directing and horrid pacing issues. It had nice moments, but none that made me have goosebumps.

Question: are you a Marvel fanboy?

This same logic would make most of the critics complaining about those very same things Marvel-Fanboys.

#108 Edited by Lunacyde (18671 posts) - - Show Bio

Hulk falls from Hellicarrier and is knocked out and reverts back to Banner upon impact. Meanwhile Kal falls from a similar height, destroys a freaking mountain with the impact and gets up without much trouble. This is when he is still learning his abilities to boot.

#109 Posted by Djangophile (275 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Hulk almost stopping that giant worm ship with one hand is much more impressive than Kal El almost getting killed by the section of that Oil Rig that was falling on him. I think hand to hand, Thor and hulk would have been able to hold that up without a problem. The comic versions definitely could. Man of Steel Superman was not a genius at anything. Tony Stark by himself would find a way to win quick. Just my view. Man of Steel Cavils Superman was an embarrasment. Dean Cains superman would own him intellectually and physically.

#110 Edited by tmannion0901 (13 posts) - - Show Bio

avengers, thor alone can take on superman

#111 Edited by Walzo (4355 posts) - - Show Bio

avengers, thor alone can take on superman

No, he can't. He's not faster or stronger than Supes.

I think Hulk almost stopping that giant worm ship with one hand is much more impressive than Kal El almost getting killed by the section of that Oil Rig that was falling on him. I think hand to hand, Thor and hulk would have been able to hold that up without a problem. The comic versions definitely could. Man of Steel Superman was not a genius at anything. Tony Stark by himself would find a way to win quick. Just my view. Man of Steel Cavils Superman was an embarrasment. Dean Cains superman would own him intellectually and physically.

A) Hulk falling from the helicarrier is no where near as impressive as Clark going through a mountain and getting right back up.

B) No, they can't. Neither have shown any sort of real combat speed, neither as are fast as Kal and aren't as durable as him either.

C) Tony would be blitzed in half in seconds.

#112 Posted by tmannion0901 (13 posts) - - Show Bio

still going with avengers all I ever hear is superman can speed blitz this and speed blitz that and if that's the case realistically than who can beat him. im sorry avengers all the way

#113 Edited by batnorris (679 posts) - - Show Bio

Unless clark is bloodlusted he isn't winning anything here. Both thor and hulk can give hime some trouble. Ironmaan can also devise a plan to take him down. Cap black widow and hawkeye get blitzed here. Loki can also help with some illusions. All in all avengers take him down due to numbers. Sorry if I made some grammar mistakes my phone is being slow and I don't feel like fixing it :-D

#114 Posted by Lunacyde (18671 posts) - - Show Bio

@batnorris: what is iron man going to be able to devise to bring him down? He couldn't even devise a way to beat Akdritch killian. People are overestimating the Avengers. Based on what happens in the movies they aren't that impressive

#115 Posted by X_insignia1 (1385 posts) - - Show Bio

The oil rig was before Jor-El told clark to push his limits, which he later began to exceed in the movie, I took that with a grain of salt because the feats in that movie alone piss over it. For example, flying through the world machine that was exerting intense gravitation forces, while he was being weakened at that.

#116 Posted by Fifthchild (599 posts) - - Show Bio

The oil rig was before Jor-El told clark to push his limits, which he later began to exceed in the movie, I took that with a grain of salt because the feats in that movie alone piss over it. For example, flying through the world machine that was exerting intense gravitation forces, while he was being weakened at that.

@lunacyde said:

Hulk falls from Hellicarrier and is knocked out and reverts back to Banner upon impact. Meanwhile Kal falls from a similar height, destroys a freaking mountain with the impact and gets up without much trouble. This is when he is still learning his abilities to boot.

Theres no indication that Hulk was KOed by that fall. Especially given that from the giant crater you can see he landed on his ass. Hulk just often seems to be written as transforming to Banner a la the old TV series - after he is done Hulking about he falls asleep and Banner wakes up in his place. The exact same thing happened in the first movie when Banner woke up in the middle of the jungle.

#117 Edited by thanosii (1256 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor still had enough speed to blitz that ice monster and abomination tanked a RPG and helicopter fire just fine. if you talking falling banner created a crater falling and he wasn't even hulked out

#118 Posted by crabtree (1619 posts) - - Show Bio

Hulk solos

#119 Posted by entropy_aegis (15249 posts) - - Show Bio
#120 Posted by Lunacyde (18671 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis: I realize that...my thumbs are too damn big for this iPhone keyboard lol

#121 Edited by Lunacyde (18671 posts) - - Show Bio

@fifthchild: Given the old guys testimony it seems as if he was still Hulk but unconscious immediately after impact.

#122 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@isaac_clarke:

Well to paint it in a different light remember when Thor more or less squats off that hill to over-power Iron Man's propulsion (which is being amped up nearly 5x) slamming them both back into the ground hard enough to still smash through those trees below? Showings like that give the impression he could have sent the damn thing flying with any effort - instead of into the two chitauri to crush them. It's also worth noting the facial expressions of a Thor after being stabbed by Loki isn't probably the best indicator of effort on his part. Just pretend the car was a golf ball.

See, now that scene may be open to interpretation. He may have been powered up the entire fight or he may have wasted all that excess energy with the singular blast, which sent Thor flying and no other blasts landed in the later parts of the fight replicated that power. It could be viewed in either light to be honest.

When did we bring Loki into the equation? Just curious. Being stabbed is hardly a sign of effort and I don't see how that really could play into the discussion. I feel as if Thor clearly showed in both films that he held back against Loki and tried to reason with him on multiple occasions. This was most evident in the original film when Thor basically incapacitated Loki with a single blast of lightning when he became annoyed.

Theres no indication that Hulk was KOed by that fall. Especially given that from the giant crater you can see he landed on his ass. Hulk just often seems to be written as transforming to Banner a la the old TV series - after he is done Hulking about he falls asleep and Banner wakes up in his place. The exact same thing happened in the first movie when Banner woke up in the middle of the jungle.

Regardless of whether he was instantaneously knocked out or not, the fall obviously weakened Hulk enough to warrant a transformation back into Banner. As Luna stated and I don't know how much it's to be credited, but the Janitor seemed to have stated that Hulk simply fell through the ceiling and didn't seem to move perhaps due to being weakened, which could support my statement.

Moderator
#123 Edited by OblivionKnight (3356 posts) - - Show Bio

@p0rtal said:

The Avengers take this without any problem. Superman couldn't even lift a tiny little section of an oil rig without almost dying when it collapsed on him. WEAKEST, SLOWEST, DUMBEST version of Superman to ever exist...EVER. He stands ZERO chance against a team like the Avengers. There is a reason he didn't go try to repair the city at the end of the movie, its because the Mayor came out and told him " Listen , you fool. You destroyed the entire city and it is clear you are not fast enough or strong enough to dodge any falling debris. I saw video of you getting knocked out cold from a small section of metal off that oil rig falling on you...imagine what might happen if you tried to go into that rubble of any of our citys buildings and it fell on you. You'd be dead. So, the only way you can help is to just leave and never return, you did a terrible job protecting everyone. Thousands are dead because of you, you were too stupid to take the fight elsewhere over water or somewhere AWAY from the center of the city. We'd have to build you a super special mech suit for your own protection, just to make sure no small pieces of metal fall and crush you to death...so either way you will cost the city more money just to repair it."

thats kinda how i see things

You do know the oil rig was coming apart, right? If Superman exerted TOO much force upon that small section he was pushing against, it's very possible it would've broken and smashed into the helicopter.

It's possible this is incorrect, as Superman has lifted even larger objects without them snapping in half, but whether he's aware that he emits an aura that stops this from happening is unlikely.

And, IIRC, he was simply laying in the water, more akin to daydreaming than anything. If he was knocked out, it would've been due to the explosion most likely.

As others have said, he was also able to crash into a mountain and shrug it off like he tripped. He also survived re-entry into Earth.

#124 Edited by buttersdaman000 (9619 posts) - - Show Bio

I really don't see how the avengers could come out on top. First of all, remove the fodder and you have Superman vs Iron Man, Thor, and Hulk. If these were comic versions, the battle would more than likely end with a loss for Superman. But, these are movie versions and no one on the Avenger team displayed anything close to what Kyrptonians were casually doing in Man of Steel.

For example, remember when the fighter jet fired at Thor and Hulk on the Hellicarrier? Thor dived out of the way to avoid being whereas Hulk was able to take the damage. So we can assume, with reasonable proof, that Thor is not as durable as the Kryptonians that casually at jet fire and missiles. Then you have Hulk, who from the looks of it, reverted back to Banner after falling from the sky....same thing happened to Superman and he shrugged it off. As for Iron Man, it should be obvious that Superman could rip through his armour seeing how Thor was about to do the same.

Which leads to strength. Everyone arguing against Superman is using the oil rig feat, which mustve been at least 75-100 tons, to lowball him even though its abvious his powers are not yet fully developed. Yes, that is a low feat if you compare it to the other Kyrptonians but against the Marvel team? No. What superior strength did either of those three show in their films? Correct me if i'm wrong but I don't remember any of them even having lifting feats....well, besides Iron Man failing to hold up his house in IM3. The best that I can remember for Hulk is the punch that stopped the giant air snake thing in avengers. For Thor, we have nothing besides knocking enemies far off screen which is something even Iron Man was doing. I think even if Superman only had the oil rig going for him he would be just as strong or even stronger than Hulk. But, like I said before that is a low end feat in this movie where we have trains being tossed, satellites being ripped from space, building being destroyed from impact and much more.

Now speed and flight. This should obviously go to Superman, but again I see people arguing against it. Concerning flight, only Iron Man can hold a candle to Superman. But the latter still showed far superior speed and control. Thor never showed mobility or flight speed above Iron Man and Hulk can't even fly. So Superman easily takes the win in flight. As for speed, have certain people been watching alternate versions of the Marvel movies?? The best speed feat I can remember is when Thor deflected the Destroyers beams and even that isn't impressive compared to kryptonians who were movie like blurs.

#125 Posted by Cybrilious4 (1766 posts) - - Show Bio

I think the mods should just lock this, nobody made a clear case why the Avengers could possibly hurt Kal.

#126 Edited by FlashKnight (451 posts) - - Show Bio

Supes in MOS was awesome, but even he couldn't take down the Avengers by himself. Thor would be too much for him.

#127 Edited by dsg651 (15 posts) - - Show Bio

Let's just call it Thor & Hulk vs. Superman because the other Avengers might as well not exist for all they'll effect they'll have.

Superman was shown to shrug off every single attack, blows that destroyed skyscrapers, surviving re-entry into the Earth's atmosphere, flying through mountain tops, standing in the gravity thingy (that must be like the weight of a planet on his shoulders) he just shrugged it off. Absolutely nothing Hulk or Thor does, save a lightning blast, can hurt him. But Thor needs time to charge up a lightning, and Superman won't stand around waiting for him to do that.

Never mind heat vision which will kill them all instantly.

#128 Posted by Fifthchild (599 posts) - - Show Bio

@lunacyde said:

@fifthchild: Given the old guys testimony it seems as if he was still Hulk but unconscious immediately after impact.

The old guys testimony indicates nothing of the sort. If anything in fact it indicates the exact opposite given its not like he fell down to the Earth's surface alongside Banner and would have had a chance to see whether he was awake. And yet he saw Hulk fall out of the sky and was able to definitively state that he was awake. Unless he had Kryptonian supervision and super-reflexes himself that kind of indicates he was awake after he hit the ground.

#129 Edited by TheAcidSkull (18032 posts) - - Show Bio

@deranged_midget: i agree that Supes wins, but hulk doesn't banner down when he is hurt, quite the opposite.

#130 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@theacidskull: In the comics, I'd agree to that point. In the film, there's not really much of a different or logical explanation. I never said he was "hurt", more along the lines of weakened from the fall, drained and therefore, reverted back to Banner. This has been shown in the comics though to an extent.

Moderator
#131 Posted by TheAcidSkull (18032 posts) - - Show Bio

@theacidskull: In the comics, I'd agree to that point. In the film, there's not really much of a different or logical explanation. I never said he was "hurt", more along the lines of weakened from the fall, drained and therefore, reverted back to Banner. This has been shown in the comics though to an extent.

well hulk has withstood worse than a fall, and i don't think this is why he reverted, it could have been because the transformation was Basically a bit forced due to loki's staff, and where it was out of it's reach hulk just became banner since he had nothing or no one to fight.

and in the comics it only happens ONCE every 10000000 times, only because of the plot devise, and it makes no sense, because pain increases hulks anger.

#132 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

well hulk has withstood worse than a fall, and i don't think this is why he reverted, it could have been because the transformation was Basically a bit forced due to loki's staff, and where it was out of it's reach hulk just became banner since he had nothing or no one to fight.

and in the comics it only happens ONCE every 10000000 times, only because of the plot devise, and it makes no sense, because pain increases hulks anger.

Again, I completely agree in terms of the comic books but it's definitely not a fair comparison to the film incarnation because as with almost all film incarnations for super heroes, they are still drastically weaker than their comic book counterparts.

In the films, he's never really withstood much of anything greater than that fall from the area around the Helicarrier (Troposphere to Stratosphere?). You could argue Thor's singular Mjolnir blow but that only temporarily staggered him.

Moderator
#133 Edited by HBKTimHBK (5242 posts) - - Show Bio

@p0rtal said:

The Avengers take this without any problem. Superman couldn't even lift a tiny little section of an oil rig without almost dying when it collapsed on him. WEAKEST, SLOWEST, DUMBEST version of Superman to ever exist...EVER. He stands ZERO chance against a team like the Avengers. There is a reason he didn't go try to repair the city at the end of the movie, its because the Mayor came out and told him " Listen , you fool. You destroyed the entire city and it is clear you are not fast enough or strong enough to dodge any falling debris. I saw video of you getting knocked out cold from a small section of metal off that oil rig falling on you...imagine what might happen if you tried to go into that rubble of any of our citys buildings and it fell on you. You'd be dead. So, the only way you can help is to just leave and never return, you did a terrible job protecting everyone. Thousands are dead because of you, you were too stupid to take the fight elsewhere over water or somewhere AWAY from the center of the city. We'd have to build you a super special mech suit for your own protection, just to make sure no small pieces of metal fall and crush you to death...so either way you will cost the city more money just to repair it."

thats kinda how i see things

...Huh?

#134 Edited by NeonGameWave (7712 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman should win.

Off Topic: I watched the movie and it was pretty enjoyable.

#135 Edited by TheAcidSkull (18032 posts) - - Show Bio

@theacidskull said:

well hulk has withstood worse than a fall, and i don't think this is why he reverted, it could have been because the transformation was Basically a bit forced due to loki's staff, and where it was out of it's reach hulk just became banner since he had nothing or no one to fight.

and in the comics it only happens ONCE every 10000000 times, only because of the plot devise, and it makes no sense, because pain increases hulks anger.

Again, I completely agree in terms of the comic books but it's definitely not a fair comparison to the film incarnation because as with almost all film incarnations for super heroes, they are still drastically weaker than their comic book counterparts.

In the films, he's never really withstood much of anything greater than that fall from the area around the Helicarrier (Troposphere to Stratosphere?). You could argue Thor's singular Mjolnir blow but that only temporarily staggered him.

i still think that hulk reverted back to banner after he was out of lokis control

#136 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

i still think that hulk reverted back to banner after he was out of lokis control

I can't say that I agree. Everyone who was in the vicinity of the sceptre seemed to be influenced negatively, not just Hulk. As to why he lost control, could just be for dramatic effect and to showcase a battle between Thor and Hulk.

Moderator
#137 Posted by TheAcidSkull (18032 posts) - - Show Bio

@theacidskull said:

i still think that hulk reverted back to banner after he was out of lokis control

I can't say that I agree. Everyone who was in the vicinity of the sceptre seemed to be influenced negatively, not just Hulk. As to why he lost control, could just be for dramatic effect and to showcase a battle between Thor and Hulk.

hulk was chasing black widow to basically eat her lol, :P, kinda shows that shows that he was affected by it, also hinting that the transformation was forced.

#138 Edited by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

hulk was chasing black widow to basically eat her lol, :P, kinda shows that shows that he was affected by it, also hinting that the transformation was forced.

I wouldn't say eat here, but kill her. He was relatively the same in TIH with the exception of Betty.

Both Cap and Tony were ready to get their slug fest on but I feel Bruce was more effected because he has to try so hard to maintain his composure as to not lose full control of Hulk.

Moderator
#139 Edited by Cybrilious4 (1766 posts) - - Show Bio
#140 Edited by Vaeternus (9410 posts) - - Show Bio

@allstarsuperman: yep by a huge, huge margin...

At the end of the day if supes pushes himself he murks avengers cb or movie versions..

Btw the oilrig is a poor case due to the fact that he didnt have his full potential ie the gravity machine feat required far more power then a dumb oil rig, clark was also in the point in life confused, lost and had no idea how powerful he is. Even jor el told him this in the fos.

#141 Edited by zr0c00l (856 posts) - - Show Bio

@djangophile: when he did that he wasnt even close to full strength. This was all explained in the movie by jor el telling him he needed to pish his limits because he basically didnt have one and could do practically anything he could imagine. Further proof that he wasnt at full power then was him not being able to fly.....there was a development process, did you watch the movie? By the end of the film hes far beyond anything the avengers could dream of.

#142 Edited by Bezza (3522 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah people harking on about that Oil Rig thing must have had their eyes closed for the rest of the movie! How about flying up through a giant energy beam that was ripping up the planet and taking it out at the source? Ripping up a ship with heat vision, being thrown through about 10 blocks and just getting up without a scratch! Sending Zod literally blocks and blocks through buildings. I don't think any top tier Marvel character has combined power and speed in a fight like this before.... The main thing however that swings it for me is that this is a new superman without the normal high ground morals, who kills. That spells big trouble for Hulk and Thor!

#143 Edited by Buckshot (18915 posts) - - Show Bio

Is there any reason to believe that Superman could avoid Thor's lightning? Or that it wouldnt effect them? From what i've seen/heard the Kryptonians were fast and used their speed properly in combat but they weren't that fast given that humans could aparently target/fire on them and Avengers Hulk was shown to be pretty explosive and had some decent speed in catching Mjolnir and the ejecting pilot.

I've no doubt superspeed would be in the Kryptonians favour (as it bloody well should be) but i'm getting the impression people are giving the Krytponians too much credit, quite possibly based on how people feel about their comic book counterparts. Again, massive disclaimer - i havent actually seen the film :-\

To help you out with the Kryptonian speed thing, they were getting shot at because they basically stood there and took it. When planes are firing on them in Smallville, Superman and Faora get out of the way and the big Kryptonian tries to tank it. Later when they're getting shot at as they fight, it's because they're choosing not to move (or are engaged with each other). Faora does it more than anyone else, standing around and getting shot because it simply doesn't matter. When a rocket gets launched at her she watches it coming and holds up her hand in front of it. Them getting tagged isn't because they lack speed, it's because they don't care. To compare with Hulk, the biggest, presumably slowest Kryptonian also attacked a jet and, while we don't know if the pilot tried to eject, we know that the pilot ended up as a red smear in the sky. That Kryptonian also caught Superman as he tried to fly away a couple times. the speed of these characters was far beyond anything humans could actually track when they went fast (again, take a look at Faora blitzing soldiers when you see the movie), and the way Hulk and Thor have both been fought by slightly enhanced humans doesn't make me think their speed would be an issue at all.

I keep seeing comments about the oil rig, which makes no sense. It didn't collapse because he wasn't strong enough. He was clearly straining (though, as others have said, this is before he started really applying himself) but they also show that the other part of the oil rig that he was standing on was bending beneath him. He stayed in place but the ground supporting him (and in turn supporting the weight of the rest of the rig), wasn't strong enough.

Moderator
#144 Posted by isaac_clarke (5448 posts) - - Show Bio

@buttersdaman000 said:

For example, remember when the fighter jet fired at Thor and Hulk on the Hellicarrier? Thor dived out of the way to avoid being whereas Hulk was able to take the damage. So we can assume, with reasonable proof, that Thor is not as durable as the Kryptonians that casually at jet fire and missiles. Then you have Hulk, who from the looks of it, reverted back to Banner after falling from the sky....same thing happened to Superman and he shrugged it off. As for Iron Man, it should be obvious that Superman could rip through his armour seeing how Thor was about to do the same.

Iron Man was tanking missile explosions and fighter jet fire in his first movie; Thor was crushing through his superior armor with his fingers. Thor in Avengers took that break-up from his fight with the Hulk to go chase after Loki. Thor in his own movie was tanking blasts of energy that were vaporizing frost-giants. You could argue his dodge roll in Avengers was to avoid getting caught in that fire intended for the Hulk as a lapse in durability, but given his showings in the film he already a lot more durable than Iron Man was.

Remember the scene with the old-man? 'You were awake when you fell' - he didn't turn back into Banner till supposedly he de-raged or Loki lost that influence over him. The Hulk was fine after the fall.

Which leads to strength. Everyone arguing against Superman is using the oil rig feat, which mustve been at least 75-100 tons, to lowball him even though its abvious his powers are not yet fully developed. Yes, that is a low feat if you compare it to the other Kyrptonians but against the Marvel team? No. What superior strength did either of those three show in their films? Correct me if i'm wrong but I don't remember any of them even having lifting feats....well, besides Iron Man failing to hold up his house in IM3. The best that I can remember for Hulk is the punch that stopped the giant air snake thing in avengers. For Thor, we have nothing besides knocking enemies far off screen which is something even Iron Man was doing. I think even if Superman only had the oil rig going for him he would be just as strong or even stronger than Hulk. But, like I said before that is a low end feat in this movie where we have trains being tossed, satellites being ripped from space, building being destroyed from impact and much more.

Now speed and flight. This should obviously go to Superman, but again I see people arguing against it. Concerning flight, only Iron Man can hold a candle to Superman. But the latter still showed far superior speed and control. Thor never showed mobility or flight speed above Iron Man and Hulk can't even fly. So Superman easily takes the win in flight. As for speed, have certain people been watching alternate versions of the Marvel movies?? The best speed feat I can remember is when Thor deflected the Destroyers beams and even that isn't impressive compared to kryptonians who were movie like blurs.

Iron Man wasn't trying to hold up his house in IM3, his heavy lifting suit was easily holding up that (crane?) during the fight scene. Outside that there were no worthwhile lifting feats in IM3. The Hulk punch itself had the floating space-whale go completely vertical to dwarf the buildings around them in size, that's just one of his fists and the whole punch through multiple buildings bit was done in IH; but you right the Marvel heroes don't have many lifting feats - just striking power feats which I don't think Superman has anything really work with that were nearly as impressive as Thor's solo swing against the Frost Giants.

His hammer was making a number of sonic booms just to reach him at the end of his movie and when his friends were about to be killed:

In the span of a couple of feet for the monster to move, Thor's flinging himself from the center of his battlefield to his friends. Saying he doesn't have any flight speed feats worth mentioning is a bit forgetful of his solo-movie. The Destroyer bit is referenced because Thor doesn't need to be a blur, he just has to be able to hit the Blur with arguably he could - easily. It's not like the Kryptonians are depicted on foot moving any-faster than the Destroyer beam did.

@lunacyde said:

Hulk falls from Hellicarrier and is knocked out and reverts back to Banner upon impact. Meanwhile Kal falls from a similar height, destroys a freaking mountain with the impact and gets up without much trouble. This is when he is still learning his abilities to boot.

Not what happened: Hulk was confirmed as awake when he fell by the old man who actually saw the event. I know people are excited about MOS - but let's not start going on the DC wins bandwagon insisting on low-ends that don't exist.

@allstarsuperman: yep by a huge, huge margin...

At the end of the day if supes pushes himself he murks avengers cb or movie versions..

Btw the oilrig is a poor case due to the fact that he didnt have his full potential ie the gravity machine feat required far more power then a dumb oil rig, clark was also in the point in life confused, lost and had no idea how powerful he is. Even jor el told him this in the fos.

Totally. Not like comic Thor was shattering worlds in his fight Gorr one on one or anything. Something I'm sure you're aware of given all those comics you read. That's ignoring Captain Universe or Hyperion on the current roster of Avengers.

It's debatable but it was implied that Loki's influence caused Banner to lose control / have an enraged Hulk (since out of everyone being affected by it he was compelled to pick the sceptre up - sort of hinting to it's focus on him) - that was really Loki's plan from the get-go. But yes it was also so Thor and the Hulk could fight.

@isaac_clarke:

Well to paint it in a different light remember when Thor more or less squats off that hill to over-power Iron Man's propulsion (which is being amped up nearly 5x) slamming them both back into the ground hard enough to still smash through those trees below? Showings like that give the impression he could have sent the damn thing flying with any effort - instead of into the two chitauri to crush them. It's also worth noting the facial expressions of a Thor after being stabbed by Loki isn't probably the best indicator of effort on his part. Just pretend the car was a golf ball.

See, now that scene may be open to interpretation. He may have been powered up the entire fight or he may have wasted all that excess energy with the singular blast, which sent Thor flying and no other blasts landed in the later parts of the fight replicated that power. It could be viewed in either light to be honest.

When did we bring Loki into the equation? Just curious. Being stabbed is hardly a sign of effort and I don't see how that really could play into the discussion. I feel as if Thor clearly showed in both films that he held back against Loki and tried to reason with him on multiple occasions. This was most evident in the original film when Thor basically incapacitated Loki with a single blast of lightning when he became annoyed.

@fifthchild said:

Theres no indication that Hulk was KOed by that fall. Especially given that from the giant crater you can see he landed on his ass. Hulk just often seems to be written as transforming to Banner a la the old TV series - after he is done Hulking about he falls asleep and Banner wakes up in his place. The exact same thing happened in the first movie when Banner woke up in the middle of the jungle.

Regardless of whether he was instantaneously knocked out or not, the fall obviously weakened Hulk enough to warrant a transformation back into Banner. As Luna stated and I don't know how much it's to be credited, but the Janitor seemed to have stated that Hulk simply fell through the ceiling and didn't seem to move perhaps due to being weakened, which could support my statement.

The entire point of the power up was to give Iron Man a reason why he could go hand to hand with Thor for any brief amount of time. It's doubful that in a single shot from Iron Man's repulsors suddenly drained off a 475% boost. Either-way the strength displayed there is still insanely impressive, regardless of whether Iron Man was amped or not.

Loki was brought up to point out Thor was having difficulty standing at points after being stabbed through the gut - this swing was a lot later after that / repeating swinging / flying around since. It's clear Thor's performance is going to be somewhat impaired from it and likely going to make whatever he does with a singing motion rather painful for the character.

The latter bit about the Hulk being KOed was already debunked by the old-man that saw him fall. Him being weakened at all from the experience is pretty much a massive assumption on everyone's part here - Banner himself wasn't hurt and easily transforms back into the Hulk in NY instantly - more than likely Banner passed out like he did after each transformation depicted prior where he wakes up randomly elsewhere.

People are jumping the gun so much in this thread it's a bit silly.

#145 Posted by Buckshot (18915 posts) - - Show Bio

@isaac_clarke: So say Hulk was awake when he fell, does that necessarily mean he was awake when he landed? It's not the fall that kills you, it's the sudden stop.

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#146 Posted by isaac_clarke (5448 posts) - - Show Bio

@buckshot said:

@isaac_clarke: So say Hulk was awake when he fell, does that necessarily mean he was awake when he landed? It's not the fall that kills you, it's the sudden stop.

All we have is the old-man's account of what happened to work with; anything else is speculation. The old-man said he was awake he fell and apparently had some measure of control of where he landed - landing somewhere without a lot of people. From there waiting for the Hulk to revert back to Banner - if the Hulk was flat out KOed on impact or significantly injured by the impact the Old Man didn't seem to acknowledge either happening if it did.

#147 Edited by Vaeternus (9410 posts) - - Show Bio

@isaac_clarke oh yes, because you totally proof that you "read" DC comics...because Superman has never done crazy things like destroyed galaxies, held black holes, flying through the sun etc that's not even scratching the service of Superman's crazy feats. But that is also previous versions of Superman, when has Thor done anything remotely that impressive recently though?

Not sure how People are jumping the gun? Seems cut and dry to me honestly being as if you've watched both Avengers and MOS. Perhaps you didn't see MOS? Maybe if we were talking about the "Emo Singer" version of Superman, then I'd agree with you given how easily he was dooped by a mortal, but I'd still wager MOS version seriously would handle the Avengers given feats of what we've seen so far of both characters. Because taking on two kryptonians, flying through a planet busting gravity machine and fighting and defeating & killing Zod isn't remotely impressive...right?

Let's be honest here, most impressive thing Thor has done in Avenger was smack around Hulk and a few grunts from Loki's Army, he didn't even defeat Loki himself Hulk did that for him a creature who safe to say isn't as powerful as Thor at the end of the day right? Has proved he can't do anything without the Hammer and summon lightning blasts with it. Oh and he smashed a plane...

Hulk's feats, punched Thor around a few times, punched a giant robot worm, Jumped on a few planes, rooftops and leaped to catch Iron Man from smashing the ground.

Yeah...I'm sure MOS Supes can handle that given his feats listed.

#148 Posted by Buckshot (18915 posts) - - Show Bio

@buckshot said:

@isaac_clarke: So say Hulk was awake when he fell, does that necessarily mean he was awake when he landed? It's not the fall that kills you, it's the sudden stop.

All we have is the old-man's account of what happened to work with; anything else is speculation. The old-man said he was awake he fell and apparently had some measure of control of where he landed - landing somewhere without a lot of people. From there waiting for the Hulk to revert back to Banner - if the Hulk was flat out KOed on impact or significantly injured by the impact the Old Man didn't seem to acknowledge either happening if it did.

I know all we have is the account and all else is speculation, but you've presented that account as if it supports your position, when it actually doesn't. Some people seem to think the Hulk fell and was knocked out on impact and your response is "not what happened" even though the provided statement doesn't really contradict what is being suggested. If anything, it seems that Hulk being knocked out by the impact makes more sense, given that he was awake when he fell, yet Bruce seems to wake up exactly where he landed. Him being awake when he fell and awake when he landed, makes Bruce appearing in the crater a little less likely in my opinion.

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#149 Posted by isaac_clarke (5448 posts) - - Show Bio

@isaac_clarke oh yes, because you've totally displayed proof that you read DC comics...because Superman has never done crazy things like destroyed galaxies, held black holes, flying through the sun etc that's not even scratching the service of Superman's crazy feats. But that is also previous versions of Superman, when has Thor done anything remotely that impressive recently though?

People are jumping the gun? Right...perhaps you didn't see MOS, perhaps if we were talking about the "Emo Singer" version of Superman, then I'd agree with you given how easily he was dooped by a mortal with or without green K, but MOS version seriously would mop handle the Avengers given feats of what we've seen so far. Because taking on two kryptonians, flying through a planet busting gravity machine and fighting and defeating, killing Zod isn't remotely impressive...right?

Well considering you likely don't read many comics, if any at all - it's a good bet I've read more DC books than you have; either way that doesn't matter here. An assortment of feats current Superman has never done or has indication of being able to do is also not worth mentioning in any argument of T:GOT VS S:MOS. If asking for the feat I referenced: Thor: God of Thunder #9, if your asking for an assortment of feats you just mentioned - no Thor hasn't been busting galaxies or holding black holes - just dropping abstracts with hammer tosses or busting planets.

Considering half a dozen people are trying to argue the Hulk was KOed by a fall off-screen based off nothing or arguing Thor less durable than Iron Man - that's jumping the space-shark. I didn't say anything about MOS' Superman not having impressive showings in his film - though unless the machine itself is as large as a planet - the planet busting adjective loses a bit impressiveness when saying Superman flies through it. You could cut it down to 'Superman flies through a very big / destructive machine'.

#150 Edited by Vaeternus (9410 posts) - - Show Bio

@ Isaac_Clarke

You realize at the end of the day MOS had far better feats then anyone in Avengers right? Are you actually trying to argue this or defend the fact that it was apparent Hulk was KOed? Or maybe you didn't see MOS and are going by speculation? I highly doubt you've read more DC then me, probably Marvel if anything but the last person to say that I literally shut down his argument via a video on my YT proving him wrong and keep in mind that was months ago since then I have far more comics I'm following. One by Image but not concerning Super heroes. Still, I'd wager my selection of comics is more versatile then yours. I've read DC, Marvel, TMNT, Image and Malibu. You seem to just follow Marvel given your posts. Just saying. Of course if you want to prove me wrong in the slightest on the comic gig, feel free to post a photo or a video showing off your "comic collection" Also, keep in mind I don't own every comic I've read, only ones I wish to collect still as far as I can tell you seem to follow Marvel and Anime comics/movies. When you're quoting 20 people who disagree with you in the topic that's a nobrainer, kind of obvious.

I read a lot of comics, just not "every comic". I mean hell, even my comic shop guys don't even read "every" comic. I doubt anyone outside of editors or people that let's just say have the time read "every comic" with little else to do follow every story. My comment was a general statement, historically everyone knows Superman has displayed far more impressive feats then Thor has. Superman has defeated or dealt with people who can blink and make abstracts disappear like Mxy, Spectre to name a few off hand. And I'd wager a Black Hole would do more damage then an abstract being or as much given the power of one could destroy a galaxy...Besides, it's a known fact Marvel has more abstracts then DC(it doesn't mean they're automatically more powerful) especially when half the time Thor's daddy helps him or relying on his little hammer.

Superman does everything under his own power, no gimmicks to fly or daddy to rely on for power amps. He needs no weapon because he IS the weapon...Actually, a planet buster doesn't have to be the size of a planet(example The Planet Engine in MOS and SA Superman) aren't the "size of a planet" but can very well destroy one. Again, if you watched the film Zod states this it would destroy the entire planet as well as Dr. Hamilton. Yeah...I'm thinking you didn't even watch it because this is common sense. Yes, a destructive machine that again was going to destroy Earth little by little. Talk to me when Thor or Hulk do that please not to mention KILLING a Kryptonian...no less because that's so easy without Kryptonite. Everything they did in Avengers Supes can do on any given day outside of summoning magic.

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