#51 Posted by GreenScar1990 (530 posts) - - Show Bio

Hulk or Thor alone would be more than an even match for Superman alone. Why is it that every time a powerhouse hero movie comes out, everyone has to overestimate their power level?

#52 Edited by ShootingNova (15534 posts) - - Show Bio

So this is movie versions?

#53 Posted by HBKTimHBK (5240 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm not sure where everyone's getting this idea that Phoenix didn't want to kill Logan because Jean was in control...but w/e.

I think team can do it.

#54 Posted by thanosii (1206 posts) - - Show Bio

Here's the fact nothing touched jean unless she wanted alkali dam is roughly the size of a medium large gravity dam which holds back on average 28million tons of water she did that with one hand. She alo effortlessly contained optic beams that could tear through a mountain. Then add reaction time fast enough to stop bullets in mid air while facing the other direction

A few buildings doesn't seem so impressive now does it.

Now add molecular manipulation enough to disintegrate steel and telepathy enough to defeat a class 5 Xavier and she couldn't be identified on celebro which in the hands of prof could solo the world. Kryptonians have nothing on Phoenix even movie version

#55 Posted by WaveMotionCannon (5152 posts) - - Show Bio

Team by a hair.

#56 Edited by thanosii (1206 posts) - - Show Bio

Edit the weight of water is 177mil tons in a large dam,the weight of a skyscraper is 100000tons....

Therefore jean exerted enough force to solo New Jersey more powerful than even the terra forming machine

#57 Posted by WaveMotionCannon (5152 posts) - - Show Bio
#58 Posted by theONEtaichou (1506 posts) - - Show Bio

@thanosii said:

Here's the fact nothing touched jean unless she wanted alkali dam is roughly the size of a medium large gravity dam which holds back on average 28million tons of water she did that with one hand. She alo effortlessly contained optic beams that could tear through a mountain. Then add reaction time fast enough to stop bullets in mid air while facing the other direction

A few buildings doesn't seem so impressive now does it.

Now add molecular manipulation enough to disintegrate steel and telepathy enough to defeat a class 5 Xavier and she couldn't be identified on celebro which in the hands of prof could solo the world. Kryptonians have nothing on Phoenix even movie version

I'm sorry but...

Jean did not hold the ENTIRETY of the water in the dam, just the water coming towards them, and even the she didn't hold it, she directed the water around them. And considering the majority of the water flowed around them and in other places, it's clear Jean did not hold back 28 million tons of water with any hand.

You can clearly see it here...

As for optic blasts that could tear through a mountain... umm no friend. Nowhere did Cyclops tear through a mountain or come close ergo...

as for defeating Xavier... meh! Not forgetting how nerfed X was , how the hell did Mystique sneak onto the school and both X and Jean couldn't sense her? IMO Supes lasers her as fights Thor/Hulk

good day

Team by a hair.

kryptonian hair perhaps?

good day

#59 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@thanosii: @theonetaichou: Actually Cyke Beam proven capable of tearing thru a Nuke Plant with ease. As per the movie Wolverine when Deadpool had his power.

So yeah, that is a pretty powerful blast for Phoenix to just hold back.

#60 Edited by thanosii (1206 posts) - - Show Bio

Jean redirected it so even if a quarter was redirected its still in millions of tons, she did this while levitating a jet and mind raping its crew. After that she created a cocoon that sustained her under its full wait until she awoke. She created an electromagnetic wave that was felt in New York while in alkali lake (Canada). She disintegrated dozens of tanks, a jet, cars and the entire national guard.

In comparison supes had to dodge bullets, got koed by Zod goons and the chick was koed by a missile which also dropped the big guy. Zods broken neck proves they ain't invulnerable so Jeans matter manipulations will dispatch the krypton.

In fact Jean could solo all the kryptonians. She showed amazing awareness to blitz stopping bullets mid air while facing the opposite direction

#61 Posted by Lvenger (18307 posts) - - Show Bio

Magneto is gonna be a bit useless here I have to say. No good durability feats to speak of. But then again Thor and Hulk could give Superman a fight (I didn't see much speed blitzing from Superman, only Faora) and with Phoenix in tow, the team could take it.

#62 Posted by theONEtaichou (1506 posts) - - Show Bio

@thanosii: @theonetaichou: Actually Cyke Beam proven capable of tearing thru a Nuke Plant with ease. As per the movie Wolverine when Deadpool had his power.

So yeah, that is a pretty powerful blast for Phoenix to just hold back.

But that is different... while the same character tore through a school (nice) =/= Deadpool level power, even if Deadpool now has the same power. Not forgetting that Deadpool could be augmented especially considering the enhancements they gave him. Unfortunately he also didn't tear through the nuke plant (with no ease as well)... twas a containment building iirc.

ergo friend..

good day

#63 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2 said:

@thanosii: @theonetaichou: Actually Cyke Beam proven capable of tearing thru a Nuke Plant with ease. As per the movie Wolverine when Deadpool had his power.

So yeah, that is a pretty powerful blast for Phoenix to just hold back.

But that is different... while the same character tore through a school (nice) =/= Deadpool level power, even if Deadpool now has the same power. Not forgetting that Deadpool could be augmented especially considering the enhancements they gave him. Unfortunately he also didn't tear through the nuke plant (with no ease as well)... twas a containment building iirc.

ergo friend..

good day

You could try to pull that card. However it was flat out stated to be implanted with the captured mutants powers, nothing Augmented ever mention. That alone screams equal in power.

#64 Posted by thanosii (1206 posts) - - Show Bio

Supes gets caked no chance

#65 Edited by PreCrisisFlea (68 posts) - - Show Bio

MOS Superman kills the other 4, but not clear at this point whether he his a version of Superman like Reeve's, that can destroy Phoenix and can not be disintegrated by Phoenix, or like Byrneman's, that would work hard to beat the rest of the team and could be beaten by Phoenix

#66 Edited by ShiZZmAhh (509 posts) - - Show Bio

Hulk or Thor alone would be more than an even match for Superman alone. Why is it that every time a powerhouse hero movie comes out, everyone has to overestimate their power level?

Lol, no they wouldn't. They would get utterly demolished. Neither Hulk nor Thor had combat speed or durability feats on par with MoS Superman. Did you see the movie?

#67 Posted by theONEtaichou (1506 posts) - - Show Bio

@theonetaichou said:

@cadencev2 said:

@thanosii: @theonetaichou: Actually Cyke Beam proven capable of tearing thru a Nuke Plant with ease. As per the movie Wolverine when Deadpool had his power.

So yeah, that is a pretty powerful blast for Phoenix to just hold back.

But that is different... while the same character tore through a school (nice) =/= Deadpool level power, even if Deadpool now has the same power. Not forgetting that Deadpool could be augmented especially considering the enhancements they gave him. Unfortunately he also didn't tear through the nuke plant (with no ease as well)... twas a containment building iirc.

ergo friend..

good day

You could try to pull that card. However it was flat out stated to be implanted with the captured mutants powers, nothing Augmented ever mention. That alone screams equal in power.

Hence I said he could be augmented... after all those captured powers had to be put in him. I also think the ease of the way Sabretooth beat Wraith vs Wade when both brothers were getting pummeled speaks to my point. Wade was using the same tactic... but its neither here nor there friend!

as for Cyke... he tore through a school building, Wade through a containment building... not a nuke plant either way...

good day mate

#68 Posted by thanosii (1206 posts) - - Show Bio

@theonetaichou: cykes tore through a school , a train station, a bridge and split dam water in half. Jean contained it with no problem. Zods eye beams couldn't even burn through a wall before supes easily broke his neck.

Here is the truth supes was koed by an oil rig explosion ( giant turbines grinding couldn't ko tony), faora by a missile (abomination took one to the face and smiled), Zod was koed by a ship crashing he until after supes kiss. So going by all that the kryptonians did show amazing durability and with enough force can be koed. Hulk, Thor can replicate that force. Pheonix simply outclasses all the kryptonians together...

And that's why the op took out mind rape cos then this would be a stomp, this battle is only fair without Pheonix

#69 Posted by JediXMan (29560 posts) - - Show Bio

Without telepathy, Superman blitzes.

#70 Posted by thanosii (1206 posts) - - Show Bio

@jedixman: not even Jean display partial omniscience in her environment she was able to stop individually hundreds of bullets while facing the other way, she she sensed cyke in the bridge before she even saw him. There is no way to blitze someone who knows what you going to do before you do it. Supes is disintegrated before he even moves, after all he never displayed enhanced thought process just reflex, Jean shud not be in this battle

#71 Edited by WHAT_DiiCK (54 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman is overrated even in movies at least marvel tries to make it a little balanced but DC makes superman a indestructible walking alien mini God who get beaten up but no scars I don't even think he bled in man of steel... All I'm saying is that super won't stomp as long marvel has A Demi God with a hammer of multiversal proportions a, ravaging monster who's strength is possibly limitless, a Magnetokinetic who will tear apart any mental thing superman throws at him and a DAM COSMIC ENTITY #Ihatesuperman

#72 Edited by ComicStooge (11994 posts) - - Show Bio
@thanosii said:

@jedixman: not even Jean display partial omniscience in her environment she was able to stop individually hundreds of bullets while facing the other way, she she sensed cyke in the bridge before she even saw him. There is no way to blitze someone who knows what you going to do before you do it. Supes is disintegrated before he even moves, after all he never displayed enhanced thought process just reflex, Jean shud not be in this battle

He'd have to have enhanced speed processes, otherwise he wouldn't be able to navigate in flight.

Online
#73 Posted by Bezza (3373 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't think superman can beat all of this lot. He had his hands full with the kryptonians and he only fought them one at a time. Yes he showed some good power feats in MOS, but Hulk and Thor together are a very powerful combination, We've seen Thor in his own movie tear apart the frost giants and that enormous beastie. Phoenix is the "dark horse" in this encounter, she would give superman major problems in combination with the others. Even Magento should not be underestimated, anyone who can move a 800,000 ton steel bridge or lift a 30,000 ton submarine out of the water is clearly very powerful indeed!

#74 Posted by thanosii (1206 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicstooge: not even jet fighters fly at mach speeds and navigate well with normal senses Jean stopping bullets Mid air is a better reaction feat...

I'm not taking anything away from supes I think he can take on the avengers but Jean is just out of his league

#75 Posted by MonsterStomp (15824 posts) - - Show Bio

Jean didn't show any control over phoenix. I don't see why she was holding back with Wolverine when she had known Charles longer and didn't hesitate with him. That's a major plot hole imo. Superman can one shot her with heat vision.

With that said I think Superman wins in a good fight.

#76 Edited by thanosii (1206 posts) - - Show Bio

@monsterstomp: no he can't in xmen movies cykes eye beams had heat eg when he destroyed the school. Pheonix contained them in fact Pheonix had the ability to suppress powers as seen when she prevented nightcrawler from teleporting and cyclops to the extent his eyes looked normal. Supes has no way to even challenge Pheonix. Remember Zod beat supes down with a steel beam. Thor can replicate that with his hammer or hulk with another metal beam. Supes can't win this in any fashion since Pheonix is morals off

#77 Edited by MonsterStomp (15824 posts) - - Show Bio

@thanosii: Cyclops was locking eyes with her and she was prepared to control it, she couldn't replicate that feat if Superman is a fair distance away and blasts her. Zod beat Superman down with a steel beam, yet Zod and Faora fought at speed that surpass Thor and Hulks combat speed. Superman has morals off as per OP and I don't see him hesitating for a blitz.

#78 Edited by thanosii (1206 posts) - - Show Bio

@monsterstomp: in xmen united she blocked it unprepared with her hand so since cykes beams demonstrated more power supes won't be a problem. Blitze won't work cos she demonstrated better reaction feats. And why is mindrape off when speed blitze allowed?

Either way supes atoms are scattered across the city in the speed of thought

#79 Posted by MonsterStomp (15824 posts) - - Show Bio

@thanosii: Mind rape is off because Jean would solo and the OP said! I can't remember much of X-Men 2. What is Cyclops best destructive feat? Because I think they're evenly matched in that regard. Superman toppled a proportion of a building and split a ship in half. Jean's "atomic decomposition" is overrated. It wouldn't be atomic if Wolverines skeleton was still intact when she was trying to kill him.

#80 Posted by thanosii (1206 posts) - - Show Bio

@monsterstomp: Adamntium is the hardest metal in the universe Foara was burnt by supes heat vision while x23 tanked cykes optic blast in X2 so Adamntium is more durable than krypton skin also if you looked closely Zod was burnt by re-entry from the satellite. So even if Pheonix didn't destroy Adamntium she can still atomize supes.

#81 Posted by MonsterStomp (15824 posts) - - Show Bio

@thanosii said:

@monsterstomp: Adamntium is the hardest metal in the universe Foara was burnt by supes heat vision while x23 tanked cykes optic blast in X2 so Adamntium is more durable than krypton skin also if you looked closely Zod was burnt by re-entry from the satellite. So even if Pheonix didn't destroy Adamntium she can still atomize supes.

Faora and Zod weren't burnt. Zod was on fire after him and Superman blew up a gas station and showed no physical discomfort. Faora was shot in the face but she wasn't KOed or showed physical injuries. Adamantium has atoms so she should have atomized Wolverines skeleton if her attack was indeed at atomic or even molecular level, which I doubt. the Teraforming machine was wrecking the city via gravity to the point where even the roads were gone and Superman was caught in the middle of it in a weakened state.

#82 Posted by thanosii (1206 posts) - - Show Bio

@monsterstomp: being on fire = burning and yes Zod was burnt after that seen the movie three times last was Friday night so I'm sure. Molecular strength is a result of how strong the bonds are eg water has a far lower boiling point than diamond. So unless supes is more durable than diamond then it's not even worth considering

#83 Edited by MonsterStomp (15824 posts) - - Show Bio
@thanosii said:

@monsterstomp: being on fire = burning and yes Zod was burnt after that seen the movie three times last was Friday night so I'm sure. Molecular strength is a result of how strong the bonds are eg water has a far lower boiling point than diamond. So unless supes is more durable than diamond then it's not even worth considering

I've seen the movie today.

Normally when things burn, a chemical reaction occurs to affect the material that is being burnt. Superman, Zod, Faora, didn't show signs that they were burnt. Superman in the oil rig was burning, but he wasn't blackened or blistered from it. Also x23 tanked an energy blast, Cyclops' beams aren't heat orientated. And again like I said, the Terraforming machine was disintegrating the city via gravitational manipulation at a more destructive scale than Phoenix was pushing, Superman was in between them in a weakened state. That feat on it's own can spar with Phoenix's feat of slowly disintegrating buildings. We don't even know what form of power she was using. Superman could blast her from a distance, she hasn't directly targeted someone, it was more of an areal attack.

#84 Edited by theONEtaichou (1506 posts) - - Show Bio

@thanosii said:

@theonetaichou: cykes tore through a school , a train station, a bridge and split dam water in half. Jean contained it with no problem. Zods eye beams couldn't even burn through a wall before supes easily broke his neck.

Here is the truth supes was koed by an oil rig explosion ( giant turbines grinding couldn't ko tony), faora by a missile (abomination took one to the face and smiled), Zod was koed by a ship crashing he until after supes kiss. So going by all that the kryptonians did show amazing durability and with enough force can be koed. Hulk, Thor can replicate that force. Pheonix simply outclasses all the kryptonians together...

And that's why the op took out mind rape cos then this would be a stomp, this battle is only fair without Pheonix

wait, are we combining all characters into one now (for Cyclop's feats)? Can we do that for Superman? Teen Cyke tore through a school (and not even the whole school I might add... just a side) and adult Cyke did the rest (minus the train station/bridge, please remind me when does he do that). And the school was unintentional and that was the biggest damage output I've seen by Cyclops from any of the movies. When adult brain-controlled Cyke tried to kill Mags/Mysteque and Jean pushed them out of the way, and Cyclops missed I might add, I didn't see a destroyed dam. Did you? Heck, his wife took him down and still no destroyed dam... he destabilized it (granted a fantastic feat). As for dam water... umm... it's water friend.

No mate here is the truth: Supes withstood the oil rig, if you noticed, while holding the top part, the bottom part, of which he was standing on, was bending and finally broke. It wasn't Clark but the standings that couldn't take the weight. Also that's is the lowest feat in the movie... literally! And he was still coming into his powers, flight anyone? After Jor-El told him to test his limits he became a different person, just trying to fly and crashing into a mountain and getting up like a boss is miles ahead of the oil-rig (and anything from Ang Lee's Hulk, TIH, Avengers Hulk (who nearly got put down by Chitauri surrounding laser fire - he wasn't jumping around like a spring chicken then unlike before). But the worst is that the feats get better, World Engine, his Zod fight...

Also Abom took an RPG, unless soldiers carry missiles and regularly fire them from their shoulders. Faora took the missile and was physically unharmed, seen later when the larger Kryptonian carries her, and she was dazed by the destruction of her helmet and the sensory overload just like Zod (which just happened a few minutes ago for crying out loud). The speed, the power, the fighting prowess demonstrated by Faora alone is beyond anything by Hulk (who barely beat Abom, whose best strikes against Abom couldn't even destroy the rooftop they were fighting on) or Thor(ice earthquake, couldn't put down Loki, nor Hulk nor Ironman). As for end fight with Zod... no one here opposing Superman could last against MOS.

Phoenix outclasses everyone here ONLY if everyone fights her using tp... one punch from Faora in a blitz (like she did to the soldiers) would end her, same with Superman.

As for assuming that Superman is vulnerable to tp/mind rape where do you get that? Where in MOS do they show tp vulnerability? These are movie versions, the real Phonix (comics) wouldn't be taken down by being stabbed by wolverine, unlike the movies. One HV laser = dead phoenix! The END!

mate, good day

#85 Posted by thanosii (1206 posts) - - Show Bio

@theonetaichou: here the facts supes got beat down by a steel beam,

foara WAS KOED BY THE MISSILE, which didn't level a block so its less than a scud in potency

All cyke feats are in continuity regardless of his age

Nothing touched Pheonix unless she permitted it she displayed precog awareness or partial omniscience, she can't be blitzed

Supes didn't display resistance to any matter manipulation hence unless u can prove otherwise she atomizes him...

I think if you can't agree to her being above him despite the facts then let's agree to disagree

#86 Posted by MonsterStomp (15824 posts) - - Show Bio

@thanosii:

1. Superman wasn't knocked out by a steel beam and that beam was moving much faster than Thor could swing at. You're lowballing combat speed here.

2. Faora had her mask broken and was dealing with the foreign atmosphere when the missile caught her.

3. Give me some of Phoenix reaction feats, she never fought anyone as fast as Superman.

4. Phoenix didn't display matter manipulation, she was just tearing buildings a part and you still haven't given proof that it is at atomic level.

#87 Posted by Iampower (87 posts) - - Show Bio

If there are no morals, then team pretty much stomps him.

Jean Grey as the phoenix can just look at him and he will disintegrate.

Wolverine only got to kill her because she was holding back. Otherwise she could have just used her telekinesis to push him back or do whatever she wanted to him via telepathy. But Jean wanted to die.

Now anyways, add the rest of the team, yea man of steel doesn't stand a chance.

#88 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@iampower said:

If there are no morals, then team pretty much stomps him.

Jean Grey as the phoenix can just look at him and he will disintegrate.

Wolverine only got to kill her because she was holding back. Otherwise she could have just used her telekinesis to push him back or do whatever she wanted to him via telepathy. But Jean wanted to die.

Now anyways, add the rest of the team, yea man of steel doesn't stand a chance.

Yet most people chose to ignore this to lowball Phoenix in any way they can.

#89 Posted by BWANASIMBA (350 posts) - - Show Bio

Without the possibility of mind rape the team can't touch Superman. Phoenix never disintegrated anyone or anything near Superman's league of durability, and none of the other team showed anything near Superman's power as well. All 5 could jump him at the same time and he'd still win.

#90 Posted by Malonius (883 posts) - - Show Bio

I wish the team would win but supes speed, strength, and durability outclassed all their feats by far...except Phoenix and the limits of her powers are way to vague to say anything conclusively.

#91 Edited by Iampower (87 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: well she did even stop nightcrawler from using his powers completely twice, so no one can just assume that she is low level and can't take on superman because she wasn't explored enough. But I do remember reading on the movie wiki that Phoenix has the same power of her comic book counter part it just wasn't explored to its fullest stupid writers. But you don't think she could just mess with his head or just throw him around while everyone else get there hit in?

#92 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@iampower said:

@cadencev2: well she did even stop nightcrawler from using his powers completely twice, so no one can just assume that she is low level and can't take on superman because she wasn't explored enough. But I do remember reading on the movie wiki that Phoenix has the same power of her comic book counter part it just wasn't explored to its fullest stupid writers. But you don't think she could just mess with his head or just throw him around while everyone else get there hit in?

Absolutely. I took away the Mind Rape for that purpose tho.

#93 Edited by Spydey (399 posts) - - Show Bio

Hulk could handle Supes alooone.

I don't think Thor could take Supes, though. He was kind of getting worked over by Hulk.

Not sure why I just broke the team up like that, but yea.

#94 Posted by RudeBomberBoy01 (1659 posts) - - Show Bio

@thanosii:

1. Superman wasn't knocked out by a steel beam and that beam was moving much faster than Thor could swing at. You're lowballing combat speed here.

2. Faora had her mask broken and was dealing with the foreign atmosphere when the missile caught her.

3. Give me some of Phoenix reaction feats, she never fought anyone as fast as Superman.

4. Phoenix didn't display matter manipulation, she was just tearing buildings a part and you still haven't given proof that it is at atomic level.

I disagree with your second point. Thor should be able to swing faster than that. C'mon man. He swung faster than the Destroy's lazer beam could hit him.

She reacted, stopped, and shielded herself against incoming bullets after they've been fired at a close range, while facing the other way. Last time I checked; Superman never displayed speeds faster than a bullet could move in his movie.

Her shields are powerful enough to hold back a dam and contain Cyclops' optic blast. They should be able to tank Kal's punches if he gets close.

And I see extreme bias in this thread. C'mon man, Superman is stronger than that. Why are people bringing up the oil rig scene and Faora getting knocked out by a missile after getting exposed to Earth's atmosphere?

#95 Posted by CatNorris5 (12 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor singles, every thread I've seen,thor beats superman

#96 Edited by StudentOfJorEl (121 posts) - - Show Bio

People lowbail the Man Of Steel Superman here.

1. Jean may have Molecular level but Superman survives a black hole in the movie (Phantom Zone) which is molecular enough.

2. He struggles to take on a World Engine that can terraform Planets into Kryptons (half of classic supes).

3. Because I've seen all of the marvel movies which don't destroy much and Superman in Man Of Steel being more destructive, Kal El of Man Of Steel beats the team but not easily.

#97 Posted by eternityx (2514 posts) - - Show Bio

The team with ease. Phoenix solos. Even the Hulk could solo.

Most of the damage from Superman's fight was from Zod beating the crap out of him. Also Superman never used his speed at all in MOS as far as I can remember.

#98 Posted by NeonGameWave (7695 posts) - - Show Bio

The Man of Steel dies horribly.

#99 Posted by Megatronus_Prime (57 posts) - - Show Bio
#100 Posted by Batman242 (4860 posts) - - Show Bio

The team with ease. Phoenix solos. Even the Hulk could solo.

Most of the damage from Superman's fight was from Zod beating the crap out of him. Also Superman never used his speed at all in MOS as far as I can remember.

Define using his speed.