Malcom Merlyn vs Nyssa Al Ghul/Sara

Combatants

Match Information (Rules)

• This battle takes place within Starling City, in the ruins of the glades. There are no civilians around during the battle, and the time of day is midnight.
• Merlyn is fighting them both at the same time.
• Combatants start 40 feet away from each other.
• Standard gear (Merlyn only has regular arrows)
• Random encounter
• Morals off
• Victory by death

Merlyn already proved that he can dispatch Nyssa like she's nothing. Even Oliver defeated her quite quickly in H2H combat, and we know the score between Oliver and Merlyn. At a distance the girls might have an advantage because Nyssa's archery was a match for Oliver's, but at the end of the day I don't see Merlyn losing since he can defeat Sara very quickly once she gets close then take his time with Nyssa.

@nickzambuto: Isn't Nyssa better in archery? She disarmed Ollie iirc.

Thread: I don't think he can take on Sara and Nyssa at the same time, he loses this.

Malcolm, handily

Yes, she's arguably better than Oliver in archery, but then again so was Merlyn. I just can't picture the team beating him when Malcolm took down Nyssa so effortlessly in episode 304.

So, in archery, Merlyn > Nyssa > Ollie? That's the way I see it.

The main scenario I had in mind was Sara throws in her Canary Cry device which, I think, could at least give Nyssa enough time to fire a few arrows.

@thehunter: @nickzambuto:

Would allowing Canary to utilize her canary cry devices possibly make things a tad bit more even?

I think Nyssa and Sarah can take it

I'm not so ready to say Nyssa outclassed Ollie in archery. He has the better feats, it's true that she took away his quiver and would have won had the duel continued, but it seemed like the entire duel was Ollie focusing on closing the distance, so if he was restricted to purely archery I feel like he could win. But either way, Merlyn is superior to them both.

The Canary Cry has the potential to sway things, but Merlyn is too smart to let that happen. His battle tactics are matched only by Oliver himself, and even then it's arguable. If he's facing two against one odds, he could slip away into the darkness and take them out quietly. He's sensed The Arrow while he was in stealth mode on two occasions, and disappeared on The Arrow at least once.

Yes. But at the end of the day, no matter what I don't see Merlyn losing. He is simply the more skilled warrior.

Malcolm.

Indeed, indeed.

Eh I will go with team 6/10, , Nyssa & Sara are familiar with each other and does fight in sync, Sara could probably keep him occupied while Nyssa takes shots form a distance but if it somehow turns into a close quarters fight Merlyn could probably solo them both.

What better feats? If Character A has good feats, and featless character B beat him, that would make character B have the better feat in that particular field. It didn't seem like that to me, he simply had to close the distance when Nyssa disarmed him as he had no other choice, he only had one arrow when he was disarmed after all.

It should at least hold off Malcolm for a while, which is enough for Nyssa to hit him with a few arrows, not to mention the device also becomes an explosion after a few seconds. His battle tactics are great, doesn't mean it'd work on people who are at least only a cut below him though. Especially when they have numbers on him.

Okay, while he does that, Sara and Nyssa would just stand still and be perfect targets for Merlyn, coz that just makes so much sense. Sara also sensed the Arrow before then dodged his arrows while she was watching Laurel. Sara also disappeared on Ollie though.

I'm not even talking about Nyssa yet.

Isn't the device a part of Sara's standard gear anyway?

Merlyn

Indeed. I initially removed it from the battle do to believing it would give an almost easy victory over the Dark Archer. But perhaps Malcom's cunning and skill will enable him to defend himself against it.

Malcolm.

Malcolm Merlyn. He defeated a bloodlusted Nyssa when it was him, her, and Ollie fighting (though technically that was a 3-way and not 2-on-1). Still, Sara was below all 3 of them and other than Ra's himself, no one from the League has shown more skill than Merlyn. Nyssa might be above Ollie in archery, but the same could be said for Malcolm.

@thehunter: Nyssa and Sara are more than just a cut below Malcolm. Nyssa is all but nothing to him, he proved that when he lazily countered her sneak attack while meditating, and in the three-way battle where he fired three arrows simultaneously and tagged Nyssa with each of them precisely enough to pin her to the wall without actually injuring her. And then Sara is below even Nyssa.

The sonic device is really their only saving grace, and I don't see it making THAT much of a difference when it's only been used effectively against fodder and their opponent is so many leagues above them both. The fight begins at a distance, Malcolm and Nyssa will start firing at each other. From this range neither can hit the other, and presumably Sara will quietly make her way in to close the distance. However Malcolm will sense her coming, as he's been able to sense Oliver coming, and will dispatch her quickly. He might even grab her to use as a shield, at which point she'll bust out the sonic device, but since Malcolm barely even feels pain anymore and knows techniques to fake his death and then recover from an impaled heart, I can see him resisting it and destroying it with an arrow or his bow. Once Sara is defeated, he'll destroy Nyssa fairly quickly.

I mean consider this: Malcolm already took on and defeated a super team-up, Oliver and Diggle. So why can't he defeat an inferior team of Nyssa and Sara?

@nickzambuto: While? You're going overboard now. Nyssa spoke to him first > Malcolm stands up and faces Nyssa > Nyssa fires an arrow > Malcolm dodges > Nyssa takes out her katana > Malcolm dodged her attacks and put her on the ground for awhile > Malcolm uses a smoke bomb > He runs away > Oliver tagged him with an arrow as he didn't wanna kill him and used some sort of a tracer thing.

TL;DR Malcolm didn't prove that Nyssa was nothing to him, not at all.

The three way battle? Nyssa was using a sword, do you even know how efficient she is with a sword? Do you also think Ollie would've beaten Off-MIrakuru Slade with a katana?

Sure, I'm willing to agree that Malcolm is superior to Nyssa in archery and to overall stats average as well, but to say she's nothing to him is nothing but an exaggerated statement. I deem Sara to be at least as skilled as Oliver, that's how they were portrayed to be at least.

I don't understand your scenario at all? So Malcolm will have time to sense her coming and will dispatch her while Nyssa's firing off arrows at him? Do you think Malcolm can beat Sara faster than an arrow coming at him? smh. Sara stalemated attacks from Ravager with two swords, those are backed with superhuman strength. She should be able to take him on in CQC, this should give Nyssa enough time to fire arrows at him, unless you think he can also dance and dodge literally everything Nyssa throws at him. The sonic device would wreck Merlyn's ear, it's not about pain tolerance, it's about the sharpness of his senses, hearing particularly. The closer it is to Merlyn, the more damage it'll do to his brain. It can cause an explosion too, let's see Merlyn tanking an explosion.

How the heck did you get to the conclusion that Oliver and Diggle together are superior to Nyssa and Sara? Oliver and Nyssa are at the same level. Sara would wreck the heck out of Diggle, no difficulty. Do you also think Diggle is superior to Sara? Their performance against the Ravager should clear up the massive difference between the two. And he didn't beat Diggle and Ollie together, he threw a knife at Diggle, then escaped, Ollie finds him later then they fought. Then he beat Ollie in combat with Ollie doing a cheap shot. He never took on both of them at the same time, at least I don't remember him doing so.

Merlyn

nyssa defeated malcolm in the new ep.

granted i think he was unarmed but its still impressive enough for me to think the two girls would overwhelm him in pure H2H

That was so inconsistent though. Malcolm already treated Nyssa like a complete joke in ep 204, and Ollie has beaten her within seconds on two occasions, this episode being one of them, which just adds to the inconsistency because in the opening of the episode Malcolm beat Oliver AND Thea simultaneously.

explanation i came up with was nyssa had the right mindset and motivation. she was sure this time he murdered her lover.

He beat them in a swordfight and Oliver is an archer, while Thea is not nearly as good as Nyssa, also Malcolm said himself that they numbers were his advantage, because they were not well enough coordinated. And Malcolm only managed to beat her down once, because she let her emotions get the best of her, and he run away afterwards, she fought Oliver and Malcolm simultaneously that episode. Nyssa was clearly always meant to have comparable skill to Oliver or Malcolm.

Yeah, but that doesn't change the fact that Merlyn has proven himself a better archer, a better martial artist, AND a better sword fighter than Oliver all on multiple occasions. In terms of close quarters combat, Nyssa was never on either of their levels. Oliver defeated her in seconds, and Merlyn took even less time.

You might say that Merlyn didn't actually defeat Nyssa in that encounter, just threw her away, but if the guy could just casually walk towards her unarmed and block all her strikes before slamming her into the floor without any difficulty, it should be pretty evident that he's more skilled than her. However in the new episode, Nyssa was suddenly able to keep Malcolm on his toes, which is alright, but then she defeated him. What? Where did that come from?

Ollie with a sword is unquantifiable atm. Ollie never beat down Nyssa easily in all of their three fights.

First fight: Ollie had to close the distance after he was beaten by her in an archery contest.

Second fight: Nyssa basically had a katana right on his throat and was about to kill him, Malcolm just intervened and says "I believe there's a misunderstanding the three of us have to clear up" or something along that line.

This third time was the only time she was beaten with not much difficulty.

Like someone has already said, she seemed to have simply had the right mindset this time.

With standard gear, Malcolm should still be able to beat her though.

@thehunter: @nickzambuto:

xD, I was just about to bump this because of the new episode + Nyssa defeating Merlyn. Granted she had all her gear and he was unarmed, but still (If you remember, an unarmed Malcom Merlyn beat the living crap out of Ollie back in season 1).

Merlyn

@dreadpool10: That was close range though, Nyssa has better means fighting in close range when she has weapons better than Oliver does.

I'm going with Merlyn.

Nyssa solos after last night :P

@stormdriven: Hahahhahahaha Yep....

@lukehero: Last night's episode pretty much blew up my perception of everyone.

@stormdriven: Things change. I think we just found out everyone of the top people outside of RAS are probably a lot closer than we thought.

@lukehero: Yeah. Because that Nyssa/Malcolm fight didn't last very long, and not how one would expect either. Malcolm couldn't escape those League ninjas, even though he should have stomped them. Oliver barely beat Nyssa, even though most people think he would handle her easily. And those League ninjas everyone thought danced around bullets effortlessly, were no better than street thugs.

It is funny how quick this match became one sided not only did Merlyn got solo'd by Nyssa but Kreisberg stated in a recent interview that Sara had a chance to take him out too. "Sara might have gotten him but there's no way Laurel can."

@stormdriven: And those League ninjas everyone thought danced around bullets effortlessly, were no better than street thugs.

The ninjas getting fodderized and shot up with bullets and arrows is what bothered me the most. I wanted to see the ninjas overwhelm them and then Ollie comes up with a more inventive way of taking them down. But, whatever...it is what it is.

@lukehero: They were a complete joke

Agreed. Even after last night, I'm still not 100% convinced Nyssa would beat Malcom in an outright fight. Again, several ninjas took him by surprise, she had her gear, and he was unarmed. Still, I won't deny that Nyssa is a lot closer to Malcom's level then people used to think.

You have my word when I say I'm not being a Merlyn fanboy, I'm just not entirely convinced.

@dreadpool10: You mean the ninjas that did absolutely nothing while Nyssa beat him in a short fight? All she had on him was a sword, nothing else. Her having a sword shouldn't even have mattered. That fight took no time at all, and Merlyn ended up KTFO

@stormdriven: I didn't say the ninjas did anything. By that, I mean right in the middle of his toying with Laurel, the ninjas dropped down out of nowhere and I'll eat a vial of vertigo mixed with mirakuru if that didn't take Merlyn by surprise. I'd say the sword mattered (Somewhat), seeing as he was primarily trying to defend himself against getting diced. Take away the sword and put them into a H2H only situation, do you believe Nyssa still would have won?

On the subject of her having her sword, take reference to that video above, titled Nyssa find Malcom Merlyn- The Magician. After dodging Nyssa's arrow at point blank, she pulled out a sword, and they fought for a few seconds, in which Malcom put her down as easily as fodder. In that instance, he was unarmed, Nyssa had her bow and her sword, and he took her down in seconds still. Like I said, he was taken aback in the latest episode with the sudden arrival of the league. Certainly that contributed somewhat to the outcome.

But anyway, in regards to this battle in particular, eh... I can't say in particular who would win. I ain't going to make that call (Don't wanna choose a winner in my own thread, lol).

@dreadpool10: So first you say the sword mattered, then bring up him throwing Nyssa in a previous encounter? Besides, she wasn't OHKTFO like he was. And you have no proof the League's arrival made him fight worse.

Personally, no, I don't think Nyssa could beat Malcolm in straight h2h. But she made it plainly obvious that he isn't going to fodderize her like you clearly seem to think.

Well then Stormy (Can I call ya Stormy? No? Darn), suppose it's a good thing people work moderately faced on youtube.

Dunno about you, but he looked pretty surprised when the ninjas surrounded him, and then Nyssa strolled out of nowhere. Now, mentioning the previous battle, where he flipped her like a fodder was key. Because in both situations, Merlyn was unarmed, and Nyssa was armed. Yet in the first, he was expecting her arrival, clearly confident he'd escape her, and boom, he won in seconds. In the second, he wasn't expecting Nyssa to show up out of nowhere, let alone being surrounded by the league (That may just come into play as well, seeing as in that situation, he couldn't JUST concentrate on Nyssa, he had to be alert about the rest of the ninjas, whom for all he knew could have intervened). And just watch how differently both of these situations turned out.

Now then, there are a few simple conclusions, up to you to choose which one you'd prefer, of course.

• Nyssa, bloodlusted, and already just below Malcom's skill, beat him.
• PIS (An easy way to explain, but alas, I ought not to use this.... yet)
• Merlyn was taken by surprised, unprepared when he was suddenly surrounded. And thus, Nyssa put him down. (This mixes well with the first theory. Nyssa is clearly just below Merlyn is skill, and now fully in belief that Malcom killed Sara, was concentrated on taking him down. Thus, almost bloodlusted. Using the element of surprise of course, the ninjas popped up. And due to Malcom being taken aback, as well as being fully unarmed, that factored into Nyssa defeating him.

I use to think he'd fodderize her, because based on the last two battles, he pretty much did. However, after last nights showing, I will say this. Nyssa is NOT fodder to Malcom Merlyn as I previously thought, she is indeed closer to him then many people think. So in direct contrast to your last statement, no, I do not clearly seem to think she is fodder to Merlyn. After last night, I still believe she is BELOW Merlyn, yes, but not fodder to him.

Still, I won't deny that Nyssa is a lot closer to Malcom's level then people used to think.

That's what I said. Before we continue any further, I have another question, a HIGHLY important question, more important then this whole battle.....

What the heck does OHKTFO mean?

@dreadpool10: Just so we are being realistic there is no way that Malcom is that much better if a fighter than Nyssa she has been training longer than him and her father is Ra. They just had to make him a better fighter to make him a better villain. Plus, Nyssa would put up a good fight. I also don't buy into Oliver being a better fighter than Nyssa she has also been training longer than him. But, he is the Green Arrow and it's his show. Then Oliver got training from Malcom to beat Ra but, Nyssa was training all of her life with Ra and Oliver got training from Nyssa's sister who was taught by her and Nyssa's dad Ra. But, Nyssa was a better fighter than her sister. In the grand scheme of things it doesn't make sense. There is no way Oliver is better than all of these people and they have all been training 2x-3x as long as him.

Team 10/10 now. Sara roughly Merlyn's equal.

Sara can split with Merlyn on her own. Adding Nyssa theoretically should make this a clear victory in the team's favor, however Merlyn has shown an aptitude for fighting multiple skilled opponents at once which should be considered.