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#1 Posted by shroudofsorrow (3161 posts) - - Show Bio

Malcolm Merlyn from Arrow goes through a gauntlet of SHIELD characters from the Marvel Cinematic Universe. First time through he gets no rest or breaks, second time through he gets thirty minutes to recuperate in-between every fight.

The rounds are:

1. The group of SHIELD agents Mortal Thor fought while trying to get his hammer back. This includes the big one.

2. Hawkeye (No Bow)

3. Agent Ward

4. Agent Melinda May

5. Shoot-Out with Black Widow

6. Black Widow (She has no gadgets)

7. Shoot-Out with Hawkeye

8. Black Widow (Full Arsenal)

All fights take place here:

How far does Merlyn get?

#2 Posted by IRS (455 posts) - - Show Bio

I've only finished season 1 of Arrow, but assuming he gets standard gear he can probably make it to round 5 or 6, maaaaaaybe 7.

#3 Posted by ULTRAstarkiller (6130 posts) - - Show Bio

Dies at round 7

#4 Posted by oceanmaster21 (7918 posts) - - Show Bio

he clears

#5 Edited by shroudofsorrow (3161 posts) - - Show Bio

Anyone else?

#6 Edited by Fallschirmjager (16875 posts) - - Show Bio

he will stop at 7. Arrow is more grounded than the MCU. Hawkeye was no look shooting the Chi'tauri flying machines. Great for vs boards and fun factor but it out classes the archery in arrow.

Frankly, I think Hawkeye should be above BW. Because I'd still favor Malcolm over BW.

Malcolm would kick his ass in H2H though.

#7 Posted by Wolverine08 (41335 posts) - - Show Bio

he will stop at 7. Arrow is more grounded than the MCU. Hawkeye was no look shooting the Chi'tauri flying machines. Great for vs boards and fun factor but it out classes the archery in arrow.

Frankly, I think Hawkeye should be above BW. Because I'd still favor Malcolm over BW.

Malcolm would kick his ass in H2H though.

#8 Posted by godzilla44 (3048 posts) - - Show Bio

Clears

#9 Posted by BoringPerson (1691 posts) - - Show Bio

He should clear as long as none of the Marvel team get sniper rifles. Hawkeye might have ridiculous archer feats, but Merlin catches arrows.

#10 Posted by reaverlation (15666 posts) - - Show Bio

Clears

#11 Posted by godzilla44 (3048 posts) - - Show Bio

He should clear as long as none of the Marvel team get sniper rifles. Hawkeye might have ridiculous archer feats, but Merlin catches arrows.

or he can just dodge them

#12 Edited by Fallschirmjager (16875 posts) - - Show Bio

He should clear as long as none of the Marvel team get sniper rifles. Hawkeye might have ridiculous archer feats, but Merlin catches arrows.

Did you forget trick arrows? Loki did that too and he exploded. Something which would kill or seriously injure Merlyn.

I love Merlyn, but Hawkeye is a better archer. I could maybe see a stalemate, since Hawkeye lacks reaction feats (off the top of my head) but Merlyn is gonna get hit.

#13 Posted by Frozen (12930 posts) - - Show Bio
#14 Posted by Fallschirmjager (16875 posts) - - Show Bio
#15 Edited by godzilla44 (3048 posts) - - Show Bio

@fallschirmjager said:

@boringperson said:

He should clear as long as none of the Marvel team get sniper rifles. Hawkeye might have ridiculous archer feats, but Merlin catches arrows.

Did you forget trick arrows? Loki did that too and he exploded. Something which would kill or seriously injure Merlyn.

I love Merlyn, but Hawkeye is a better archer. I could maybe see a stalemate, since Hawkeye lacks reaction feats (off the top of my head) but Merlyn is gonna get hit.

he could always just dodge them :) also it wasn't in character for to use them against normal humans (the black widow fight)

#16 Edited by Farkam (4885 posts) - - Show Bio

Stops at 7.

#17 Edited by godzilla44 (3048 posts) - - Show Bio

@farkam said:

Stops at 7.

how Merylin can dodge the arrows hawkeye can't

#18 Posted by Fallschirmjager (16875 posts) - - Show Bio

@fallschirmjager said:

@boringperson said:

He should clear as long as none of the Marvel team get sniper rifles. Hawkeye might have ridiculous archer feats, but Merlin catches arrows.

Did you forget trick arrows? Loki did that too and he exploded. Something which would kill or seriously injure Merlyn.

I love Merlyn, but Hawkeye is a better archer. I could maybe see a stalemate, since Hawkeye lacks reaction feats (off the top of my head) but Merlyn is gonna get hit.

he could always just dodge them :) also it wasn't in character for to use them against normal humans (the black widow fight)

I wouldn't say that. They were fighting in EXTREME close quarters. An explosive arrow would have hurt himself at that range.

If they were in the same arena, Merlyn would wreck him.

Besides, he was mind controlled at the time, hardly qualifies as "in character"

#19 Posted by godzilla44 (3048 posts) - - Show Bio

@godzilla44 said:

@fallschirmjager said:

@boringperson said:

He should clear as long as none of the Marvel team get sniper rifles. Hawkeye might have ridiculous archer feats, but Merlin catches arrows.

Did you forget trick arrows? Loki did that too and he exploded. Something which would kill or seriously injure Merlyn.

I love Merlyn, but Hawkeye is a better archer. I could maybe see a stalemate, since Hawkeye lacks reaction feats (off the top of my head) but Merlyn is gonna get hit.

he could always just dodge them :) also it wasn't in character for to use them against normal humans (the black widow fight)

I wouldn't say that. They were fighting in EXTREME close quarters. An explosive arrow would have hurt himself at that range.

If they were in the same arena, Merlyn would wreck him.

Besides, he was mind controlled at the time, hardly qualifies as "in character"

Well the only time he used explosive arrows was when shot at loki and to explode the hellicarrier, even if he uses them Merlyn can just dodge them and Hawkeye can't

#20 Edited by dondave (36681 posts) - - Show Bio

Could clear

#21 Edited by RogueShadow (10373 posts) - - Show Bio

Clears. Not as accurate as Clint, but Clint can't arrow dodge as far as we know.

#22 Posted by RBT (4147 posts) - - Show Bio

Clears it.

#23 Posted by AllStarSuperman (21770 posts) - - Show Bio
Online
#24 Posted by godzilla44 (3048 posts) - - Show Bio

Clears. Not as accurate as Clint, but Clint can't arrow dodge as far as we know.

#25 Posted by amseaton (240 posts) - - Show Bio

he will stop at 7. Arrow is more grounded than the MCU. Hawkeye was no look shooting the Chi'tauri flying machines. Great for vs boards and fun factor but it out classes the archery in arrow.

Frankly, I think Hawkeye should be above BW. Because I'd still favor Malcolm over BW.

Malcolm would kick his ass in H2H though.

^This

#26 Posted by shroudofsorrow (3161 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump

#27 Posted by godzilla44 (3048 posts) - - Show Bio

@amseaton said:

@fallschirmjager said:

he will stop at 7. Arrow is more grounded than the MCU. Hawkeye was no look shooting the Chi'tauri flying machines. Great for vs boards and fun factor but it out classes the archery in arrow.

Frankly, I think Hawkeye should be above BW. Because I'd still favor Malcolm over BW.

Malcolm would kick his ass in H2H though.

^This

Merlyn still clears he can dodge arrows Hawkeye can't

#28 Edited by Sachmoo (849 posts) - - Show Bio

Well, he could actually stop at 3. With no restrictions, Ward and May have guns on hand pretty much all the time. They were no slouches in hand to hand combat either. W/gun, I might give it to Ward. If its straight H2h for 3 and 4, then Merlyn COULD still stop at 5. I mean, have we seen Black widow miss a shot either? He gets passed 6, but I can't make a case for him winning 7 though.

#29 Posted by godzilla44 (3048 posts) - - Show Bio

@sachmoo said:

Well, he could actually stop at 3. With no restrictions, Ward and May have guns on hand pretty much all the time. They were no slouches in hand to hand combat either. W/gun, I might give it to Ward. If its straight H2h for 3 and 4, then Merlyn COULD still stop at 5. I mean, have we seen Black widow miss a shot either? He gets passed 6, but I can't make a case for him winning 7 though.

He can use stealth very well and can never be noticed by anybody in this gauntlet and he can easily dodge hawkeye's arrows while hawkeye can't dodge Merlyn's

#30 Posted by darkseid1006 (2498 posts) - - Show Bio

Clears possibly stops at Final Widow

#31 Posted by shroudofsorrow (3161 posts) - - Show Bio

@sachmoo: Oliver is a good marksman too but Merlyn still beat him in a shoot-out. He is also just a better marksman in general I feel. Widow hasn't done anything with her firearms to suggest she is superior to Merlyn as a shooter.

As for Ward and May if they are to have guns then Merlyn gets his bow. And again, he's more than good enough of a marksman to keep up with them in a shoot-out. H2H he beats both handily.

#32 Edited by godzilla44 (3048 posts) - - Show Bio
#33 Posted by shroudofsorrow (3161 posts) - - Show Bio

@godzilla44: To be fair he'd probably be fatigued by that point and Black Widow with her full arsenal had quite a bit of versatility.

#34 Edited by darkseid1006 (2498 posts) - - Show Bio

@godzilla44: I don't think he would I just not in the mood for debating so I stayed on the safe side

#35 Edited by godzilla44 (3048 posts) - - Show Bio
#36 Edited by godzilla44 (3048 posts) - - Show Bio
#37 Edited by Sachmoo (849 posts) - - Show Bio

@sachmoo said:

Well, he could actually stop at 3. With no restrictions, Ward and May have guns on hand pretty much all the time. They were no slouches in hand to hand combat either. W/gun, I might give it to Ward. If its straight H2h for 3 and 4, then Merlyn COULD still stop at 5. I mean, have we seen Black widow miss a shot either? He gets passed 6, but I can't make a case for him winning 7 though.

He can use stealth very well and can never be noticed by anybody in this gauntlet and he can easily dodge hawkeye's arrows while hawkeye can't dodge Merlyn's

The same could be said for everybody on this list as far as stealth. But look at the location, its fairly well lit, so hiding isn't going to get you TOO far in this scenario. As far as doging the arrows, on the Arrow show we have seen them be dodged, caught, and deflected a number of times. Widow kinda dodged an arrow in Avengers.

@sachmoo: Oliver is a good marksman too but Merlyn still beat him in a shoot-out. He is also just a better marksman in general I feel. Widow hasn't done anything with her firearms to suggest she is superior to Merlyn as a shooter.

As for Ward and May if they are to have guns then Merlyn gets his bow. And again, he's more than good enough of a marksman to keep up with them in a shoot-out. H2H he beats both handily.

I get what your saying. But everyone on this list are still just normal humans, and all have shown good marksmanship. So in my eyes, When you have 2 skilled marksmen, both are normal humans, they are in a well lit arena, one has a gun and the other a bow, I'm going gun 90% of the time. Has Merlyn ever Dodged bullets?

#38 Edited by godzilla44 (3048 posts) - - Show Bio

@sachmoo said:
@godzilla44 said:

@sachmoo said:

Well, he could actually stop at 3. With no restrictions, Ward and May have guns on hand pretty much all the time. They were no slouches in hand to hand combat either. W/gun, I might give it to Ward. If its straight H2h for 3 and 4, then Merlyn COULD still stop at 5. I mean, have we seen Black widow miss a shot either? He gets passed 6, but I can't make a case for him winning 7 though.

He can use stealth very well and can never be noticed by anybody in this gauntlet and he can easily dodge hawkeye's arrows while hawkeye can't dodge Merlyn's

The same could be said for everybody on this list as far as stealth. But look at the location, its fairly well lit, so hiding isn't going to get you TOO far in this scenario. As far as doging the arrows, on the Arrow show we have seen them be dodged, caught, and deflected a number of times. Widow kinda dodged an arrow in Avengers.

Not really Merlyn showed the best stealth out of everybody here. When did Widow dodge an arrow? I know he can dodge arrow and catch them how is this helping you argument?

#39 Edited by Sachmoo (849 posts) - - Show Bio

@sachmoo said:
@godzilla44 said:

@sachmoo said:

Well, he could actually stop at 3. With no restrictions, Ward and May have guns on hand pretty much all the time. They were no slouches in hand to hand combat either. W/gun, I might give it to Ward. If its straight H2h for 3 and 4, then Merlyn COULD still stop at 5. I mean, have we seen Black widow miss a shot either? He gets passed 6, but I can't make a case for him winning 7 though.

He can use stealth very well and can never be noticed by anybody in this gauntlet and he can easily dodge hawkeye's arrows while hawkeye can't dodge Merlyn's

The same could be said for everybody on this list as far as stealth. But look at the location, its fairly well lit, so hiding isn't going to get you TOO far in this scenario. As far as doging the arrows, on the Arrow show we have seen them be dodged, caught, and deflected a number of times. Widow kinda dodged an arrow in Avengers.

Not really Merlyn showed the best stealth out of everybody here. When did Widow dodge an arrow? I know he can dodge arrow and catch them how is this helping you argument?

If I'm correct about the rules, Unless stated otherwise, All combatants start off in plain view of each other correct? So that means, in order for things to play out the way YOU see it, Malcolm would have to dodge gunfire long enough to try and hide and take out the opposition in a WELL lit area? That's a bad gameplan man. Just saying.

And like i said, Widow KINDA doged an Arrow on avengers in the fight with Hawkeye. Not the first one where he had no chance to hit her, but when he shot one at her feet. Not much of a feat, but its mentionable. I wouldnt say she actually dodged it, more like anticipated it and acted first. That could certainly be used here. An i wasn't saying just Malcom did those things, numerous people have dodged, caught and deflected arrows. Most of which were just human. Who is to say Widow or Hawkeye can't do it? Look at the Arrow fight between Oliver and Nyssa. Be honest, did any of that dodging look Spectacular or too difficult?

#40 Posted by godzilla44 (3048 posts) - - Show Bio

@sachmoo said:

The same could be said for everybody on this list as far as stealth. But look at the location, its fairly well lit, so hiding isn't going to get you TOO far in this scenario. As far as doging the arrows, on the Arrow show we have seen them be dodged, caught, and deflected a number of times. Widow kinda dodged an arrow in Avengers.

@shroudofsorrow said:

@sachmoo: Oliver is a good marksman too but Merlyn still beat him in a shoot-out. He is also just a better marksman in general I feel. Widow hasn't done anything with her firearms to suggest she is superior to Merlyn as a shooter.

As for Ward and May if they are to have guns then Merlyn gets his bow. And again, he's more than good enough of a marksman to keep up with them in a shoot-out. H2H he beats both handily.

I get what your saying. But everyone on this list are still just normal humans, and all have shown good marksmanship. So in my eyes, When you have 2 skilled marksmen, both are normal humans, they are in a well lit arena, one has a gun and the other a bow, I'm going gun 90% of the time. Has Merlyn ever Dodged bullets?

Well he's never dodged bullets but he's taken out 3 SWAT men and Diggle was using a gun and Diggle is a ex-military and is very good with a gun.

#41 Posted by godzilla44 (3048 posts) - - Show Bio

@sachmoo said:

@godzilla44 said:

@sachmoo said:
@godzilla44 said:

@sachmoo said:

Well, he could actually stop at 3. With no restrictions, Ward and May have guns on hand pretty much all the time. They were no slouches in hand to hand combat either. W/gun, I might give it to Ward. If its straight H2h for 3 and 4, then Merlyn COULD still stop at 5. I mean, have we seen Black widow miss a shot either? He gets passed 6, but I can't make a case for him winning 7 though.

He can use stealth very well and can never be noticed by anybody in this gauntlet and he can easily dodge hawkeye's arrows while hawkeye can't dodge Merlyn's

The same could be said for everybody on this list as far as stealth. But look at the location, its fairly well lit, so hiding isn't going to get you TOO far in this scenario. As far as doging the arrows, on the Arrow show we have seen them be dodged, caught, and deflected a number of times. Widow kinda dodged an arrow in Avengers.

Not really Merlyn showed the best stealth out of everybody here. When did Widow dodge an arrow? I know he can dodge arrow and catch them how is this helping you argument?

If I'm correct about the rules, Unless stated otherwise, All combatants start off in plain view of each other correct? So that means, in order for things to play out the way YOU see it, Malcolm would have to dodge gunfire long enough to try and hide and take out the opposition in a WELL lit area? That's a bad gameplan man. Just saying.

And like i said, Widow KINDA doged an Arrow on avengers in the fight with Hawkeye. Not the first one where he had no chance to hit her, but when he shot one at her feet. Not much of a feat, but its mentionable. I wouldnt say she actually dodged it, more like anticipated it and acted first. That could certainly be used here. An i wasn't saying just Malcom did those things, numerous people have dodged, caught and deflected arrows. Most of which were just human. Who is to say Widow or Hawkeye can't do it? Look at the Arrow fight between Oliver and Nyssa. Be honest, did any of that dodging look Spectacular or too difficult?

Well who's to say they can't? We really can't say they can until they show something on that level. Merlyn should be able to get to cover before they shoot him just like he did with Diggle and there is lot's of dark shadows their where he can hide and just snipe them out.

#42 Edited by Dratini1331 (7028 posts) - - Show Bio

Malcolm clears. First law of life, Thou shalt not question John Barrowman

#43 Posted by godzilla44 (3048 posts) - - Show Bio

Malcolm clears. First law of life, Thou shalt not question John Barrowman

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

This all the way xD

#44 Posted by Sachmoo (849 posts) - - Show Bio

@godzilla44:
Well who's to say they can't? We really can't say they can until they show something on that level. Merlyn should be able to get to cover before they shoot him just like he did with Diggle and there is lot's of dark shadows their where he can hide and just snipe them out.

I told you, Widow anticipated an Arrow and evaded it. That could certainly play a factor here. And that video was cool, but also not necessarily applicable here UNLESS he gave us starting positions. The arena here is NOT a small confined space where Merilyn can run behind a corner in a second. Merilyn knew they were coming and waited in that room for them to come, cause he knew it played i his favor. He was familiar with the space and could get behind short corners to engage them in H2H.

Like i said, scenario 3, 4 and 5 would require him to evade bullets. I'm going to go people who showed good enough marksmenship with a gun over a guy with a bow, in THIS particular scenario 9-10. That's just my opinion. Maybe if he gave Merilyn the high ground, or if they each started behind pillars then maybe it would help him. But in plainsight Gun>Bow.

#45 Posted by godzilla44 (3048 posts) - - Show Bio

@sachmoo said:

@godzilla44:

Well who's to say they can't? We really can't say they can until they show something on that level. Merlyn should be able to get to cover before they shoot him just like he did with Diggle and there is lot's of dark shadows their where he can hide and just snipe them out.

I told you, Widow anticipated an Arrow and evaded it. That could certainly play a factor here. And that video was cool, but also not necessarily applicable here UNLESS he gave us starting positions. The arena here is NOT a small confined space where Merilyn can run behind a corner in a second. Merilyn knew they were coming and waited in that room for them to come, cause he knew it played i his favor. He was familiar with the space and could get behind short corners to engage them in H2H.

Like i said, scenario 3, 4 and 5 would require him to evade bullets. I'm going to go people who showed good enough marksmenship with a gun over a guy with a bow, in THIS particular scenario 9-10. That's just my opinion. Maybe if he gave Merilyn the high ground, or if they each started behind pillars then maybe it would help him. But in plainsight Gun>Bow.

She didn't even anticipated it he clearly just miss her here watch it again

So we can't tell who wins until the op states the starting distance?

@shroudofsorrow: What's the starting distance

#46 Posted by Silverrings (1969 posts) - - Show Bio

Merlyn could probably beat everybody on the list in hand-to-hand except Black Widow, who seemed like the better, and more flashy, close-quarters-combatant to me. She beat lots of fodder, Hawkeye and avoided getting crushed by the Hulk, after all. Also, while Merlyn dodges arrows with ease he isn't a bullet-timer, and Black Widow has guns, so in a shoot out he should lose. They both have good stealth feats but i'd wager Black Widow is better at sneaking around unnoticed. Hawkeye was a drastically better archer, it's just silly, but in a fist fight Merlyn would probably beat him, as Hawkeye has very few close combat feats, and they weren't all that, while Merlyn has lots and they were all pretty impressive.

It's close in both cases, but i think, depending on who gets he drop on who and whatnot, Merlyn stops at Black Widow or Hawkeye. He'd waltz all over the fodder, though.

#47 Posted by shroudofsorrow (3161 posts) - - Show Bio

@silverrings said:

Merlyn could probably beat everybody on the list in hand-to-hand except Black Widow, who seemed like the better, and more flashy, close-quarters-combatant to me.

Dis-agree.

Beating Oliver 2/3 and curbstomping Diggle are more impressive than beating fodder and a featless Hawkeye. Merlyn beats her handily in a H2H fight. As to surviving the Hulk, she was able to outrun him long enough to escape. It's a good feat, but it does not make her superior to Merlyn. As to fighting styles, Widow's was actually MORE superfluous than Merlyn, involving a lot of unnecessary flips and the like that only served to drag the fight out.

Also, while Merlyn dodges arrows with ease he isn't a bullet-timer, and Black Widow has guns, so in a shoot out he should lose.

Possibly, but there is some cover to be had for both combatants.

but in a fist fight Merlyn would probably beat him, as Hawkeye has very few close combat feats, and they weren't all that, while Merlyn has lots and they were all pretty impressive.

Correction: Hawkeye has NO Hand-to-Hand feats at all. Literally nothing. Merlyn ROFLstomps 10/10. Diggle would beat him too. Honestly I'd wager that 90% of the combat-capable characters in Arrow would beat him H2H. Movie Hawkeye is bottom-tier as a melee fighter.

#48 Posted by Silverrings (1969 posts) - - Show Bio

No, i'm fine with what i said, thanks.

#49 Edited by shroudofsorrow (3161 posts) - - Show Bio

@silverrings: It's still incorrect. At least partially so. Natasha is not beating Merlyn, at least not in pure H2H. His feats are better by quite a fair margin. She might win the last round, but that's only because he'd be fatigued by that point and she also gets her arsenal.

#50 Edited by Sachmoo (849 posts) - - Show Bio

@godzilla44: It's clear as day, she is on the ground he bends back to grab an arrow to shoot, she anticipates it and starts her little poll swing. It's right there in the clip that you posted. Again, I'm not referring to the first shot. I'm talking about the second shot.

About the starting position, that's kind of the point. If it is an even playing field, I'm going guns. Unless he gave Merlyn a strategical advantage by giving him the high ground, or allowing him some sort of cover then he loses In my opinion. Now if you want him to change the OP to give him a strategic advantage, then that is a whole other case because rules state, that they are in plain sight of each other.