Magneto vs Cell

@Darrius:

Did you honestly just attack the man's knowledge of physics in your 5th point after writing what you wrote in your first point, in a post about comic book characters no less. Since you mentioned physics, let me help you, nothing is faster than light.
There is no such thing as "instant" teleportation. Here though, I don't want to focus on the teleportation, which is obviously impossible (but this is comics), but rather the "instant" part. Even if teleportation were possible it would still have a measurable speed. No two events are truly simultaneous, thus your assertion, that no one is faster than instant teleportation is wrong. It's more evidence on DBZ homerism. If I had to guess I would say you think it's the fastest thing going because you saw it in DBZ, therefore it must the fastest, biggest, strongest, or whatever "est" is best for the situation.

seriously man, basing your argument on your pure speculations and feelings won't help you. at least next time you want to counter a scientific argument you should make scientific argument as well. the only correct part n your statement is nothing is faster than light, that everybody know, but writers skip that fact to make their characters a liitle special, but generally it is always the case excpt when it comes to character's travel (they neglect that fact).

your argument is weak, teleportation in comics is instant, everybody knows that, don't tell me you think your the only one right and all the community of comic readers are wrong. :D and besides that, since you really want to challenge me in scientific debate, bring it on buddy, and yes, "instant" exist in science, didn't you here about quantum entanglement and superposition? it's a fact proven by experiences. you're denying scientific facts here.

People have metal in their body. It's trace amounts, but it's there. Whether Cell is 100% organic or not there is still metal in his body, and that metal is enough. Arguing that Cell is a giant battery and has a supercomputer controlling him is actually making the case for Magneto. Neither cell nor anybody else can control any EM field in the presence of Magneto. That is what Magneto does. It is really his only power. It just happens to be one of the fundamental forces in nature (in real life), and that makes it really, REALLY powerful.
But what I really to direct attention to here is Onilord's references to the power levels. What this thread has come down to is a few people saying that Cell, as a DBZ character, can generate enough power to destroy planets and others saying that it doesn't matter how much energy he can generate, he can not win this match-up. Fights with DBZ characters always end up like this. But the match-ups matter more than the power a character can generate. A truck can generate enough power to pull several tons, but I can disable it with by cutting one wire, or removing on wheel, or by putting sugar in the gas tank. The biggest, most powerful machines can be destroyed by a grain of sand in the wrong place.
Magneto can do A LOT with an amount of metal so small that it is barely more than nothing. If that wasn't enough, Magneto can do A LOT with anything than can be affected by an EM field, and that is almost anything. Here he has time to study how to attack his enemy and he is fighting in an adamantium city. Mags isn't losing this fight, if you can call it that.

first : bring me one feat in character no PIS, where Magneto can do what you're saying to someone outputing planetary level energy from all his body (energy that Mag can't control), do that then we can argue about it. but talking about speculative actions that the character never did is useless.

second : you're neglecting the intensity part, an X power is operative untill it faces an intensity beyond control then the X power fail to work. controlling particules needs a great amount of concentration (it's not like controling massive objects) and under an overwhelming energy pressure, there is no way someone can opperate his power specially when it comes to small particules. this is common logic and reognized facts, if it wasn't the case, then anyone who can control particules would be able to control matter in black holes, shatter stars, and command matter in entire galaxy, it makes no sense, that's why there is power levels and limits to everything.

@Paytience said:

@onilordasmodeus said:

@Darrius said:

People have metal in their body. It's trace amounts, but it's there. Whether Cell is 100% organic or not there is still metal in his body, and that metal is enough. Arguing that Cell is a giant battery and has a supercomputer controlling him is actually making the case for Magneto. Neither cell nor anybody else can control any EM field in the presence of Magneto. That is what Magneto does. It is really his only power. It just happens to be one of the fundamental forces in nature (in real life), and that makes it really, REALLY powerful.

But what I really to direct attention to here is Onilord's references to the power levels. What this thread has come down to is a few people saying that Cell, as a DBZ character, can generate enough power to destroy planets and others saying that it doesn't matter how much energy he can generate, he can not win this match-up. Fights with DBZ characters always end up like this. But the match-ups matter more than the power a character can generate. A truck can generate enough power to pull several tons, but I can disable it with by cutting one wire, or removing on wheel, or by putting sugar in the gas tank. The biggest, most powerful machines can be destroyed by a grain of sand in the wrong place.

Magneto can do A LOT with an amount of metal so small that it is barely more than nothing. If that wasn't enough, Magneto can do A LOT with anything than can be affected by an EM field, and that is almost anything. Here he has time to study how to attack his enemy and he is fighting in an adamantium city. Mags isn't losing this fight, if you can call it that.

I get that, but you can't say that Magneto can over power Cell's "perfect" control just because "that's what Magneto does."

And to be clear, NO, I'm not saying Cell wins because he can destroy planets, and I actually take offense to that (a little) becuase you are trying to equate my argument to a fanboy-ish type thought process.

The fact of the matter is that though Magneto can effect all EM fields, Cell's ki (which Paytience equated to an EM field) is under Cell's complete control. Magento may be able to affect some of it once Cell releases control of it, but while it's in him, while Cell is generating it, it's under his complete control.

A "real world" example would be gravitational fields; while they are very different from EM fields, like EM fields, everything generates one. To over power the gravitiational pull of the Earth (or even an atom) what ever wants to separate itself has to create a huge about of power, MUCH stronger than the initial gravity well. When I say Cell generates more power than the Earth, I mean that. That power is concentrated in him...in each and every one of his cells. He is essentially a dense cell of energy. To separate that energy from Cell would take some more power full than the Earth (and by extention Magneto)...or magic.

Oh yeah, about the Yakon example put up a couple pages back, Yakon wasn't draining Goku's ki, he was sucking up the light generated by Goku's SSJ transformation.

Cell doesn't have perfect control over the EM fields or bioelectricity in his body, he hasn't shown it, therefore doesn't have it. Also, I NEVER equated Ki to EM Fields, YOU did. I specifically stated the difference. Hence, Cell can control and defend Ki, but has no defense against Magneto's Em manipulation. Magneto however doesn't have to deal with Cell's Ki generation period. (I explain this in my post right before this one, for like, the 98723896982357 time in this thread) It's specifically because of what you stated about Yakon above, and that is the point I was trying to make...by eating the light of Goku's aura, he was draining Goku's own energy. Thus, Magneto doesn't need to affect Ki, he just needs to siphon the light from Cell's aura and the Ki goes with it.

No. You were the person in the thread who said the Magneto could control ki...eqauting it to an EM field which Mags can control. I was only following suit.

Cell has shown (and pretty much explained) his ability to control his power "perfectly" when he was fighting Trunks. In that fight he was able to make himself stronger and also when he made himself faster because of his control. Does Cell have a limit to he strength and speed? Yes. But the fact is he can augment them to a great degree, as well as his durability, and other stats and abilities.

My point about the Yakon sucking the light thing was that the light was a by-product of the energy Goku was out putting. The light wasn't his ki persay, it was just that...light. Yes Goku used energy to create the light, but the energy he was generating/outputting that Yakon was taking was light, not ki. The only real time ki was being syphoned in DBZ was through Babidi's magic in order to ressurect Buu.

Magneto was able to use the Earth's EM field to absorb Phoenix's power because of Jean and the fact that she was Phoenix's weakness. Does Phoenix (or Jean) have complete control of the cells in her body? Was she generating her own power? No, but Cell can, and has demonstrated so in his ability to regen body parts at will.

Cell can tell his cells to what to do and has complete control of them and the power they generate...really that is my whole point.

I just want to mention two things:

That guy from X-men who can teleport, I forgot his name now, but his teleport really not literally instantly because he travel through some pocket dimension, just so fast it seem instantly. It was in cartoon so I don't say it for sure. But in dbz, it is stated to be instant.

About the forcefield, Cell is stronger than Piccolo in the Buu saga, and Piccolo could break Badibi's "forcefield". And Badibi survived Vegeta's sacrifice with that forcefield.

@Magethor said:

Magneto = 17

Cell = 47

Not sure = 5

What are these numbers?

@onilordasmodeus said:

@Paytience said:

@onilordasmodeus said:

@Darrius said:

People have metal in their body. It's trace amounts, but it's there. Whether Cell is 100% organic or not there is still metal in his body, and that metal is enough. Arguing that Cell is a giant battery and has a supercomputer controlling him is actually making the case for Magneto. Neither cell nor anybody else can control any EM field in the presence of Magneto. That is what Magneto does. It is really his only power. It just happens to be one of the fundamental forces in nature (in real life), and that makes it really, REALLY powerful.

But what I really to direct attention to here is Onilord's references to the power levels. What this thread has come down to is a few people saying that Cell, as a DBZ character, can generate enough power to destroy planets and others saying that it doesn't matter how much energy he can generate, he can not win this match-up. Fights with DBZ characters always end up like this. But the match-ups matter more than the power a character can generate. A truck can generate enough power to pull several tons, but I can disable it with by cutting one wire, or removing on wheel, or by putting sugar in the gas tank. The biggest, most powerful machines can be destroyed by a grain of sand in the wrong place.

Magneto can do A LOT with an amount of metal so small that it is barely more than nothing. If that wasn't enough, Magneto can do A LOT with anything than can be affected by an EM field, and that is almost anything. Here he has time to study how to attack his enemy and he is fighting in an adamantium city. Mags isn't losing this fight, if you can call it that.

I get that, but you can't say that Magneto can over power Cell's "perfect" control just because "that's what Magneto does."

And to be clear, NO, I'm not saying Cell wins because he can destroy planets, and I actually take offense to that (a little) becuase you are trying to equate my argument to a fanboy-ish type thought process.

The fact of the matter is that though Magneto can effect all EM fields, Cell's ki (which Paytience equated to an EM field) is under Cell's complete control. Magento may be able to affect some of it once Cell releases control of it, but while it's in him, while Cell is generating it, it's under his complete control.

A "real world" example would be gravitational fields; while they are very different from EM fields, like EM fields, everything generates one. To over power the gravitiational pull of the Earth (or even an atom) what ever wants to separate itself has to create a huge about of power, MUCH stronger than the initial gravity well. When I say Cell generates more power than the Earth, I mean that. That power is concentrated in him...in each and every one of his cells. He is essentially a dense cell of energy. To separate that energy from Cell would take some more power full than the Earth (and by extention Magneto)...or magic.

Oh yeah, about the Yakon example put up a couple pages back, Yakon wasn't draining Goku's ki, he was sucking up the light generated by Goku's SSJ transformation.

Cell doesn't have perfect control over the EM fields or bioelectricity in his body, he hasn't shown it, therefore doesn't have it. Also, I NEVER equated Ki to EM Fields, YOU did. I specifically stated the difference. Hence, Cell can control and defend Ki, but has no defense against Magneto's Em manipulation. Magneto however doesn't have to deal with Cell's Ki generation period. (I explain this in my post right before this one, for like, the 98723896982357 time in this thread) It's specifically because of what you stated about Yakon above, and that is the point I was trying to make...by eating the light of Goku's aura, he was draining Goku's own energy. Thus, Magneto doesn't need to affect Ki, he just needs to siphon the light from Cell's aura and the Ki goes with it.

No. You were the person in the thread who said the Magneto could control ki...eqauting it to an EM field which Mags can control. I was only following suit.

Cell has shown (and pretty much explained) his ability to control his power "perfectly" when he was fighting Trunks. In that fight he was able to make himself stronger and also when he made himself faster because of his control. Does Cell have a limit to he strength and speed? Yes. But the fact is he can augment them to a great degree, as well as his durability, and other stats and abilities.

My point about the Yakon sucking the light thing was that the light was a by-product of the energy Goku was out putting. The light wasn't his ki persay, it was just that...light. Yes Goku used energy to create the light, but the energy he was generating/outputting that Yakon was taking was light, not ki. The only real time ki was being syphoned in DBZ was through Babidi's magic in order to ressurect Buu.

Magneto was able to use the Earth's EM field to absorb Phoenix's power because of Jean and the fact that she was Phoenix's weakness. Does Phoenix (or Jean) have complete control of the cells in her body? Was she generating her own power? No, but Cell can, and has demonstrated so in his ability to regen body parts at will.

Cell can tell his cells to what to do and has complete control of them and the power they generate...really that is my whole point.

I never ONCE said that Magneto could control Ki. Go find a quote where I said that...I didn't. YOU equated what they did to generating EM Fields. I said that magneto can shut cell down from generating ki by manipulating the bio-electricity in his body, disrutping the EM Field that bind his atoms togther, or siphoning the light from his aura. Cell can control his power fine...Magneto can TAKE THAT POWER AWAY FROM HIM. Yes Yakon was sucking the light...and in doing so was DRAINING THE ENERGY FROM Goku; showing that direct control of Ki is not necessary to siphon ki energy from them. (I'm not even getting into the fact that we haven't shown the energy in their auras or attacks to actually be Ki, just the product of it...as a matter of fact, life force, spirit energy, and attack power are described separately in DBZ...Goku's aura was acutally described as light energy...but I digress) Eating the light from Goku reverted him back to his base form. Goku was able to generate enough energy to blow yakon up...Cell cannot generate enough to overload Magneto, who can immediately redirect it, and has harnessed multiple planets and the sun before. Also, Cell has never ONCE displayed cellular control...saying that he has is wrong. His regen is an ability from piccolo (in the Manga btw, he doesn't have cellular regen...there's an organ in his head that he can regen from, just like Piccolo) thus it isn't cellular. It was later retconned to be cellular for the Anime, however, CELL CANNOT "CONTROL" IT AT THAT LEVEL. Cellular regen is not cellular control. Wolverine can regen from almost anything, does that mean he has cellular control? Hulk can as well...does he have cellular control? No. As far as augmenting his body...so can Magneto...and thus far, he hasn't a shown a limit to it.

You are putting words in my mouth in order to circumnavigate the real debate, which there isn't one. Magneto has shown himself able to do all the things I've pointed out. Cell has never once displayed Cellular "control" nor planet busting attacks. For that matter, Cell has never displayed spontaneous regen. Everytime he regenerates he takes the attack, and THEN regenerates. He has never regenerated as he was fighting.

@Paytience said:

1. Wally West outran a teleporter. So, um...wrong. Welcome to the comic world. Magneto has cut nightcrawler off from dematerializing before...and even after he dematerialized was able to track him along lines of the EM field and use his powers quick enough to set a trap for whn he reappeared. That, no matter what you say, is both reacting and acting faster than "instant" movement. Cell, on the other hand, was repeatedly tagged by Goku, and blown apart once when faced with IT. It shows that not only is Magneto's mutant reflex faster than Cell's physical movement, but that his tracking is FAR better as well. It's on panel...it is therefore not debatable.

2. First, you have to prove that Cell can throw a planet busting attack first, not just generate enough energy to bust; and then you have to prove that he can do it quickly without powering up. (I'll get to why in a second) The Galactus shot was reflexive, not a thought out warning, and the Phoenix...actually Magneto has shielded against Phoenix full out before, and that scan was to show that Magneto could bottle neck and siphon large amounts of energy. Speaking of which...

3. Magneto thus far has shown no limitations as far as the types of energy he can control or manipulate. He hasn't met one yet that he can't...EVERYTHING with an atom in the universe, which btw...is everything, is governed or held together by the EMF. Also, the point is, Magneto doesn't need to control Ki to siphon him. Yakon SHOWED that. Yakon was eating LIGHT. It specifically states it. In doing so, Goku's ki was being drained. Thus, by siphoning LIGHT from a Z fighters aura, the KI GOES WITH IT. You can't debate that either...it's on panel. This is the reason Cell can't powerup...if he tries, the fight is over. Magneto doesn't have to absorb the energy, so it won;t overwhelm him, he can simply pull it away and redirect it as he does with Phoenix; and even if he does absorb, Magneto has used the EM Field from multiple planets before without even slowing down. Thus far, we haven't seen an upper limit to his ability to amp himself using his powers.

4. Once again, you don't get it. Cell's body is a genetic makeup of individual cells...these all communicate and interact with each other using bioelectricity. Bioelectricity is inherently Electromagnetic. He is NOT MADE UP OF KI. He generates it, just like every other Z fighter. Cell eat's and digests bioenergy...it's why he went city to city sucking up people. He is literally fueled by bioelectricity, and considering his genetic makeup, it makes sense. (Speaking of which, a genetic experiment vs a genius geneticist?) Furthermore, cells are comprised of molecules which are made up of Atoms which are bound together by EM Fields. Magneto can and has manipulate on a sub atomic level...cell cannot. And yes, he does have the android's metal parts in him...he cannot digest nonorganic matter. CANON. Magneto shuts his body down before the fights even start...he's done it to entire teams before.

5. Actually, you're wrong. Z fighters "sense their opponents movements through subtle vibrations in the air". This was explained DURING the Yakon fight, during the Buu fight, and during DRAGON BALL when Roshi was teaching Goku and Krillin. Z fighters use Ki sense to find opponents, but a very powerful fighter who is faster then them can overwhelm their tracking. At that point, the only way to track visually or with Ki sense is to be inherently stronger or faster than your opponent, which is why GOHAN was the only one able to follow Goku and Cell during their fight. His abilities dwarfed theirs. You see this effect in real fighting...Anderson Silva sees and tracks faster than you do for example, ALL ATHLETES DO as they are used to operating at a higher level. The speed of vibrations and currents in the air are directly relative to the speed of the object affecting them. If you're opponent is moving ftl...this effect is felt through the air. Barry Allen does it, as explained on panel, and so do the Z fighters, once again, as explained on panel. If the Z fighters used "Ki Sense" to track during a fight they would never be able to combat the Androids who DON'T GENERATE KI.

Thanks for playing though...but if you wanna laugh at someone's dbz knowledge, do it when you're talking to someone who hasn't spent 20 years following DBZ in 3 languages. Peace.

1. hah, no. i knew you'll bring that. Wally outrun the 2 cosmic beings, because their reaction time to activate teleportation was slower than Wally who was powerd by 2 planetary races kinetic force. so no, you're example fail. i bet you don't know better than me about Flash, specilally Wally West, so welcome to comicvine.

are you reading what you wrote or not, you're telling me that Magneto manipulated EM fields, tracked nightcrawler's disturbance in the field, set a trap and all of that in one instant? you're telling me that someone can work for moment in an instant? a moment in an instant? what nonsense are you trying to buy me here? what's bigger a moment or an instant? unless Magneto can litterally stop time, or opperate outside of time or wrap time it's impossible. cut the nonsense. that's too much wanking, hah, Mag with such riduculous instant reaction get tagged and punched by slow characters all the time. so naah, you're sooo wrong.

2. i'll say it one time : Cell is officially a Solar System Buster, and of course he can blow planets like nothing, or are you telling me that Frieza who's weaker than him can do it and Cell can't? it will be really laughable like hell.

and DBZ fighters had manytimes counter attacked by energy blasts after their enemy had thrown energy blast to their direction, and of course their energy blasts are faster than light, Piccolo's feat is the best example for that. and the best example of counter attacking is when Gohan after he was facing an energy blast that was only few meters from him, he charged and blasted his Kamehameha to counter it. so yeah Cell can throw his Kamehameha with FTL reflex.

Magneto's shield isn't holding planetary power, Galactus was warning him, and Pheonix was in weak state, or are you telling me now that Galactus is more powerful than Phoenix? or that Magneto can tank universal or several galaxy level? seriously? say yes and i'm out of here. i won't debate such fanboyism if you say yes.

3. oh boy, ok then, bring me that feat where Magneto can absorb light. then we can discuss this.

and since you're bringing this instance of Yakon, what happened after that? wasn't Yakon blown up? he was, because he can't handle energy of such level, energy beyond planetary level. so naah, you're point is moot.

4. first : bring me one feat in character no PIS, where Magneto can do what you're saying to someone outputing planetary level energy from all his body (energy that Mag can't handle), do that then we can argue about it. but talking about speculative actions that the character never did is useless.

second : you're neglecting the intensity part, an X power is operative untill it faces an intensity beyond control then the X power fail to work. controlling particules needs a great amount of concentration (it's not like controling massive objects) and under an overwhelming energy pressure, there is no way someone can opperate his power specially when it comes to small particules. this is common logic and recognized facts, if it wasn't the case, then anyone who can control particules would be able to control matter in black holes, shatter stars, and command matter in entire galaxy, it makes no sense, that's why there is power levels and limits to everything. for example, stars are all about EM, Magneto can't shatter stars beause he can't handle such energy pressure.

5. fair enough, this i agree, i thought you were talking about air currents as the only way they have. but it doesn't change the fact that Magneto operate his powers using his thoughts, and speed of thoughts is nowhere close to DBZ speed.

Magento can't survive planet destruction Cell just wins by obliterating the planet

@All_Mighty_Beyonder said:

@Paytience said:

1. Wally West outran a teleporter. So, um...wrong. Welcome to the comic world. Magneto has cut nightcrawler off from dematerializing before...and even after he dematerialized was able to track him along lines of the EM field and use his powers quick enough to set a trap for whn he reappeared. That, no matter what you say, is both reacting and acting faster than "instant" movement. Cell, on the other hand, was repeatedly tagged by Goku, and blown apart once when faced with IT. It shows that not only is Magneto's mutant reflex faster than Cell's physical movement, but that his tracking is FAR better as well. It's on panel...it is therefore not debatable.

2. First, you have to prove that Cell can throw a planet busting attack first, not just generate enough energy to bust; and then you have to prove that he can do it quickly without powering up. (I'll get to why in a second) The Galactus shot was reflexive, not a thought out warning, and the Phoenix...actually Magneto has shielded against Phoenix full out before, and that scan was to show that Magneto could bottle neck and siphon large amounts of energy. Speaking of which...

3. Magneto thus far has shown no limitations as far as the types of energy he can control or manipulate. He hasn't met one yet that he can't...EVERYTHING with an atom in the universe, which btw...is everything, is governed or held together by the EMF. Also, the point is, Magneto doesn't need to control Ki to siphon him. Yakon SHOWED that. Yakon was eating LIGHT. It specifically states it. In doing so, Goku's ki was being drained. Thus, by siphoning LIGHT from a Z fighters aura, the KI GOES WITH IT. You can't debate that either...it's on panel. This is the reason Cell can't powerup...if he tries, the fight is over. Magneto doesn't have to absorb the energy, so it won;t overwhelm him, he can simply pull it away and redirect it as he does with Phoenix; and even if he does absorb, Magneto has used the EM Field from multiple planets before without even slowing down. Thus far, we haven't seen an upper limit to his ability to amp himself using his powers.

4. Once again, you don't get it. Cell's body is a genetic makeup of individual cells...these all communicate and interact with each other using bioelectricity. Bioelectricity is inherently Electromagnetic. He is NOT MADE UP OF KI. He generates it, just like every other Z fighter. Cell eat's and digests bioenergy...it's why he went city to city sucking up people. He is literally fueled by bioelectricity, and considering his genetic makeup, it makes sense. (Speaking of which, a genetic experiment vs a genius geneticist?) Furthermore, cells are comprised of molecules which are made up of Atoms which are bound together by EM Fields. Magneto can and has manipulate on a sub atomic level...cell cannot. And yes, he does have the android's metal parts in him...he cannot digest nonorganic matter. CANON. Magneto shuts his body down before the fights even start...he's done it to entire teams before.

5. Actually, you're wrong. Z fighters "sense their opponents movements through subtle vibrations in the air". This was explained DURING the Yakon fight, during the Buu fight, and during DRAGON BALL when Roshi was teaching Goku and Krillin. Z fighters use Ki sense to find opponents, but a very powerful fighter who is faster then them can overwhelm their tracking. At that point, the only way to track visually or with Ki sense is to be inherently stronger or faster than your opponent, which is why GOHAN was the only one able to follow Goku and Cell during their fight. His abilities dwarfed theirs. You see this effect in real fighting...Anderson Silva sees and tracks faster than you do for example, ALL ATHLETES DO as they are used to operating at a higher level. The speed of vibrations and currents in the air are directly relative to the speed of the object affecting them. If you're opponent is moving ftl...this effect is felt through the air. Barry Allen does it, as explained on panel, and so do the Z fighters, once again, as explained on panel. If the Z fighters used "Ki Sense" to track during a fight they would never be able to combat the Androids who DON'T GENERATE KI.

Thanks for playing though...but if you wanna laugh at someone's dbz knowledge, do it when you're talking to someone who hasn't spent 20 years following DBZ in 3 languages. Peace.

1. hah, no. i knew you'll bring that. Wally outrun the 2 cosmic beings, because their reaction time to activate teleportation was slower than Wally who was powerd by 2 planetary races kinetic force. so no, you're example fail. i bet you don't know better than me about Flash, specilally Wally West, so welcome to comicvine.

are you reading what you wrote or not, you're telling me that Magneto manipulated EM fields, tracked nightcrawler's disturbance in the field, set a trap and all of that in one instant? you're telling me that someone can work for moment in an instant? a moment in an instant? what nonsense are you trying to buy me here? what's bigger a moment or an instant? unless Magneto can litterally stop time, or opperate outside of time or wrap time it's impossible. cut the nonsense. that's too much wanking, hah, Mag with such riduculous instant reaction get tagged and punched by slow characters all the time. so naah, you're sooo wrong.

2. i'll say it one time : Cell is officially a Solar System Buster, and of course he can blow planets like nothing, or are you telling me that Frieza who's weaker than him can do it and Cell can't? it will be really laughable like hell.

and DBZ fighters had manytimes counter attacked by energy blasts after their enemy had thrown energy blast to their direction, and of course their energy blasts are faster than light, Piccolo's feat is the best example for that. and the best example of counter attacking is when Gohan after he was facing an energy blast that was only few meters from him, he charged and blasted his Kamehameha to counter it. so yeah Cell can throw his Kamehameha with FTL reflex.

Magneto's shield isn't holding planetary power, Galactus was warning him, and Pheonix was in weak state, or are you telling me now that Galactus is more powerful than Phoenix? or that Magneto can tank universal or several galaxy level? seriously? say yes and i'm out of here. i won't debate such fanboyism if you say yes.

3. oh boy, ok then, bring me that feat where Magneto can absorb light. then we can discuss this.

and since you're bringing this instance of Yakon, what happened after that? wasn't Yakon blown up? he was, because he can't handle energy of such level, energy beyond planetary level. so naah, you're point is moot.

4. first : bring me one feat in character no PIS, where Magneto can do what you're saying to someone outputing planetary level energy from all his body (energy that Mag can't handle), do that then we can argue about it. but talking about speculative actions that the character never did is useless.

second : you're neglecting the intensity part, an X power is operative untill it faces an intensity beyond control then the X power fail to work. controlling particules needs a great amount of concentration (it's not like controling massive objects) and under an overwhelming energy pressure, there is no way someone can opperate his power specially when it comes to small particules. this is common logic and recognized facts, if it wasn't the case, then anyone who can control particules would be able to control matter in black holes, shatter stars, and command matter in entire galaxy, it makes no sense, that's why there is power levels and limits to everything. for example, stars are all about EM, Magneto can't shatter stars beause he can't handle such energy pressure.

5. fair enough, this i agree, i thought you were talking about air currents as the only way they have. but it doesn't change the fact that Magneto operate his powers using his thoughts, and speed of thoughts is nowhere close to DBZ speed.

1. That's exactly what I'm saying. It SAYS IT IN THE SCAN. So, you're quite frankly, wrong.

And I quote:

"Sense disruptions along magnetic lines of force...and sense your destination almost before you do"

Yeah.

2. No, Cell is not officially a solar system buster; generating the energy t bust and actually busting are two entirely different things. He might have the energy, but focusing it into an attack are two ENTIRELY different things. Magneto's shield doesn't have to "hold" it in the first place...Cell can't use it.

3. Magneto doesn't have to control light, (He can...light is part of the EM Spectrum) he just has to be able to pull it away, which he can. Magneto can can bend and warp light around him to turn invisible, and has on panel feats of redirecting light. He also has on an panel feat siphoning energy from phoenix which cannot be simply pis because he has done it MULTIPLE times. Yakon blew up because he couldn't handle it...Magneto has absorbed planetary energy many times...as recently as AvX he was pulling energy from "every planet within reach" including the sun. And once again, the Pheonix has a power output that dwarfs anything in DBZ. Also...cell isn't even marginally as powerful as Goku was during the Buu saga in the first place. Jen Grey Phoenix destroyed a sun...Magneto drained her to a limit she didn't think she had. Example stands.

4. You're speculating on a ot of things cell can do...no the least of which is planet busting.

5. Magneto's synaptic action is 14000x more than human actually...and his power is Electromagnetic in nature. Furthermore, he can amp his natural abilities with his powers, and has been shown projecting his astral form along a lightspeed photon, tracking light speed objects, and he regular processes countless sensory signals along the EM Field moving billions of times faster than light (evidenced by the speed at which he feels them) The only way he can process stimuli moving faster than light is by having faster than light thought processing. Just like the Flash has superspeed processing to run faster than light, so that he can manage stimuli coming faster than him ftl, magneto HAS to have ftl processing to manage the stimuli coming at him ftl. Two sides...same coin. Therefore...no, DBZ is not faster then Magneto thinks.

@Paytience:

You're right.

I re-read your inital post and you refered to the light of the arua specifically, so, my bad. You never equated ki to EM; we are and have been talking about the same thing. Still though, that really only corestponds to the SSJ form and the energy beams. The only time Cell produced a visible "light arua" was when he glowed purple, and it seemed he really only did that for show (iirc). Every other time he's powered up it was more akin to a regular aura; no real light, just the "invisible" arua surrounding him.

Cell's regen, though he got it from Piccolo, is different from Piccolo's. As you said, Piccolo has an organ to do that with, Cell just has his cells. From anyone of his cells is able to regen, and from just one cell he can ressurect himself. Him being able to do such at will is why I say as much, he's regen isn't automatic, he purposefully does it.

My bad for putting words in your mouth, but that doesn't change the fact that he can, and has, regen-ed mid fight. Given time, oportunity, and ki, Cell can regen all day long. The damage being done, THEN him bouncing back proves nothing, other than he's able to do it when he chooses. Not spontaneous regen, but voluntary control of his celluar regeneration.

Just to add, you saying Cell can't blow up a planet right there kind of derails the debate. Everyone knows Cell can bust a planet (King Kai's planet not withstanding) regardless if he's destroyed Earth, or some random other planet (that Toriyama never intended him to go to in the first place). It's even been proven that his claim to destroy a solar system was true, in one of the recently translated guide books, but it's whatever.

LOL @ Cell not being a planet buster.

@onilordasmodeus said:

@Paytience:

You're right.

I re-read your inital post and you refered to the light of the arua specifically, so, my bad. You never equated ki to EM; we are and have been talking about the same thing. Still though, that really only corestponds to the SSJ form and the energy beams. The only time Cell produced a visible "light arua" was when he glowed purple, and it seemed he really only did that for show (iirc). Every other time he's powered up it was more akin to a regular aura; no real light, just the "invisible" arua surrounding him.

Cell's regen, though he got it from Piccolo, is different from Piccolo's. As you said, Piccolo has an organ to do that with, Cell just has his cells. From anyone of his cells is able to regen, and from just one cell he can ressurect himself. Him being able to do such at will is why I say as much, he's regen isn't automatic, he purposefully does it.

My bad for putting words in your mouth, but that doesn't change the fact that he can, and has, regen-ed mid fight. Given time, oportunity, and ki, Cell can regen all day long. The damage being done, THEN him bouncing back proves nothing, other than he's able to do it when he chooses. Not spontaneous regen, but voluntary control of his celluar regeneration.

Just to add, you saying Cell can't blow up a planet right there kind of derails the debate. Everyone knows Cell can bust a planet (King Kai's planet not withstanding) regardless if he's destroyed Earth, or some random other planet (that Toriyama never intended him to go to in the first place). It's even been proven that his claim to destroy a solar system was true, in one of the recently translated guide books, but it's whatever.

The aura wasn't for show, per toriyama. It was cells version of the super sayan aura...just a different color of light. I'm saying that when Cell was retconned to have cellular regen, which like I said, isn't in the comics, he wasn't given individual cellular control. He can decide when he regens, but he can't pick which indivisual cells do it, or directly control the energy around each indicivual cell. Magneto CAN, which means that's Magneto's fine control>cell's power out put.

Non spontaneous regen, controlled regen, means that Cell likely can't do it well the attack is being pressed, unless he's been shown to do it; as that is a feat of control.

Saying that cell doesn't have an attack to blow up the planet doesn't derail the debate. He has the energy to do so, fine...but he was never shown to focus that energy into a single attack that vaporized a planet. The Kam would have t penetrate and explode...it wouldn't vaporize it. He could have the power to destroy a planet, but might only be able to focus all that energy in portions, etc. See what I mean? I'm saying that he might have the power to destroy a planet or a soalr system even, but the manner in which he utilizes it is debatable. He might not be able to focus it all at once because he hasn't done so, and saying he has is speculation. If he can't focus it all at once...then he doesn't have a busting attack that he can throw at Magneto's shield. It's really that simple.

@Paytience:

OK. It wasn't for show...still...he only did it once and it was because he wanted to.

You are reaching. When Cell focuses, he regens; and he does it to/for specific body parts.

You can parse word however you want, Cell can destroy a planet.

@czarny_samael666: The Shield won't save Magneto from getting dominated by Cell

lets be honest here Magneto tanking attacks from phoenix and galactus (even if they weren't serious) count as much an when Wolverine stabbed him

If Magneto were using his forcefield, Cell can just use tk to crush Magneto from the inside.

@mypasswordis1234 said:

I just want to mention two things:

That guy from X-men who can teleport, I forgot his name now, but his teleport really not literally instantly because he travel through some pocket dimension, just so fast it seem instantly. It was in cartoon so I don't say it for sure. But in dbz, it is stated to be instant.

About the forcefield, Cell is stronger than Piccolo in the Buu saga, and Piccolo could break Badibi's "forcefield". And Badibi survived Vegeta's sacrifice with that forcefield.

@Magethor said:

Magneto = 17

Cell = 47

Not sure = 5

What are these numbers?

thank you, so Nightcrawler's real power insn't instant, he teleport via dimensional travel (like hyperspace or someting).

and those numbers are numbers of votes, we can see that even when DBZ is much hated the majority agree that Cell obliterate Magneto.

@Paytience:

@Paytience said:

1. hah, no. i knew you'll bring that. Wally outrun the 2 cosmic beings, because their reaction time to activate teleportation was slower than Wally who was powerd by 2 planetary races kinetic force. so no, you're example fail. i bet you don't know better than me about Flash, specilally Wally West, so welcome to comicvine.

are you reading what you wrote or not, you're telling me that Magneto manipulated EM fields, tracked nightcrawler's disturbance in the field, set a trap and all of that in one instant? you're telling me that someone can work for moment in an instant? a moment in an instant? what nonsense are you trying to buy me here? what's bigger a moment or an instant? unless Magneto can litterally stop time, or opperate outside of time or wrap time it's impossible. cut the nonsense. that's too much wanking, hah, Mag with such riduculous instant reaction get tagged and punched by slow characters all the time. so naah, you're sooo wrong.

2. i'll say it one time : Cell is officially a Solar System Buster, and of course he can blow planets like nothing, or are you telling me that Frieza who's weaker than him can do it and Cell can't? it will be really laughable like hell.

and DBZ fighters had manytimes counter attacked by energy blasts after their enemy had thrown energy blast to their direction, and of course their energy blasts are faster than light, Piccolo's feat is the best example for that. and the best example of counter attacking is when Gohan after he was facing an energy blast that was only few meters from him, he charged and blasted his Kamehameha to counter it. so yeah Cell can throw his Kamehameha with FTL reflex.

Magneto's shield isn't holding planetary power, Galactus was warning him, and Pheonix was in weak state, or are you telling me now that Galactus is more powerful than Phoenix? or that Magneto can tank universal or several galaxy level? seriously? say yes and i'm out of here. i won't debate such fanboyism if you say yes.

3. oh boy, ok then, bring me that feat where Magneto can absorb light. then we can discuss this.

and since you're bringing this instance of Yakon, what happened after that? wasn't Yakon blown up? he was, because he can't handle energy of such level, energy beyond planetary level. so naah, you're point is moot.

4. first : bring me one feat in character no PIS, where Magneto can do what you're saying to someone outputing planetary level energy from all his body (energy that Mag can't handle), do that then we can argue about it. but talking about speculative actions that the character never did is useless.

second : you're neglecting the intensity part, an X power is operative untill it faces an intensity beyond control then the X power fail to work. controlling particules needs a great amount of concentration (it's not like controling massive objects) and under an overwhelming energy pressure, there is no way someone can opperate his power specially when it comes to small particules. this is common logic and recognized facts, if it wasn't the case, then anyone who can control particules would be able to control matter in black holes, shatter stars, and command matter in entire galaxy, it makes no sense, that's why there is power levels and limits to everything. for example, stars are all about EM, Magneto can't shatter stars beause he can't handle such energy pressure.

5. fair enough, this i agree, i thought you were talking about air currents as the only way they have. but it doesn't change the fact that Magneto operate his powers using his thoughts, and speed of thoughts is nowhere close to DBZ speed.

1. That's exactly what I'm saying. It SAYS IT IN THE SCAN. So, you're quite frankly, wrong.

And I quote:

"Sense disruptions along magnetic lines of force...and sense your destination almost before you do"

Yeah.

2. No, Cell is not officially a solar system buster; generating the energy t bust and actually busting are two entirely different things. He might have the energy, but focusing it into an attack are two ENTIRELY different things. Magneto's shield doesn't have to "hold" it in the first place...Cell can't use it.

3. Magneto doesn't have to control light, (He can...light is part of the EM Spectrum) he just has to be able to pull it away, which he can. Magneto can can bend and warp light around him to turn invisible, and has on panel feats of redirecting light. He also has on an panel feat siphoning energy from phoenix which cannot be simply pis because he has done it MULTIPLE times. Yakon blew up because he couldn't handle it...Magneto has absorbed planetary energy many times...as recently as AvX he was pulling energy from "every planet within reach" including the sun. And once again, the Pheonix has a power output that dwarfs anything in DBZ. Also...cell isn't even marginally as powerful as Goku was during the Buu saga in the first place. Jen Grey Phoenix destroyed a sun...Magneto drained her to a limit she didn't think she had. Example stands.

4. You're speculating on a ot of things cell can do...no the least of which is planet busting.

5. Magneto's synaptic action is 14000x more than human actually...and his power is Electromagnetic in nature. Furthermore, he can amp his natural abilities with his powers, and has been shown projecting his astral form along a lightspeed photon, tracking light speed objects, and he regular processes countless sensory signals along the EM Field moving billions of times faster than light (evidenced by the speed at which he feels them) The only way he can process stimuli moving faster than light is by having faster than light thought processing. Just like the Flash has superspeed processing to run faster than light, so that he can manage stimuli coming faster than him ftl, magneto HAS to have ftl processing to manage the stimuli coming at him ftl. Two sides...same coin. Therefore...no, DBZ is not faster then Magneto thinks.

1. well, as i thought, it's not instant, Nightcrawler's teleportation isn't instant, it take a certain amount of time. nothing in scan show an instant feat, you can see clearly that he moved the metallic objects from place to an other, that's an absolute proof that it's not instant. therefore what you said is wrong. and as i said before, Magneto can't opperate faster than thoughts, that's why he will be blitzed by faster than thoughts characters like Cell, Magneto was beaten and tagged by slower characters.

2. are you refuting official canon publications now? your word is nothing compared to Toryama's word. Cell said he can destroy the solar system (as Beyonder said he can destroy the multiverse and no one refute that) and the writer confirm that in official handbooks, so he can. get over it. and why are we talking about that? Cell with only planetbust attack will obliterate Magneto. and you have no proof of anything quantified that Magneto's shield can resist planet level blast.

3. it's nonsense if Magneto can handle Pheonix that is close to universal level, and at the same time can't hundle Galactus who's weaker than Phoenix. something is wrong. ok point me that issue now. where Magneto did what you say to Phoenix, i'm sure you're taking things out of context. point me what issue is it, i'll check it myself.

and Magneto turning himself invisible isn't helping him, Cell can still find him. you said it yourself, don't play smart with me here.

4. who's speculating here? who is making delusion feats without any canon evidence, i told you to bring me feats where Magneto do what you said : controling EM energy of living body of someone outputting planet level energy pressure. you didn't bring a thing. so you're the one speculating.

5. you're again speculating and speculating, sensing fast things doesn't mean he can move as fast as them. you have to back your words with evidences. where did Magneto ever make an attack or move FTL?

@All_Mighty_Beyonder said:

@mypasswordis1234 said:

I just want to mention two things:

That guy from X-men who can teleport, I forgot his name now, but his teleport really not literally instantly because he travel through some pocket dimension, just so fast it seem instantly. It was in cartoon so I don't say it for sure. But in dbz, it is stated to be instant.

About the forcefield, Cell is stronger than Piccolo in the Buu saga, and Piccolo could break Badibi's "forcefield". And Badibi survived Vegeta's sacrifice with that forcefield.

@Magethor said:

Magneto = 17

Cell = 47

Not sure = 6

What are these numbers?

thank you, so Nightcrawler's real power insn't instant, he teleport via dimensional travel (like hyperspace or someting).

and those numbers are numbers of votes, we can see that even when DBZ is much hated the majority agree that Cell obliterate Magneto.

Ok, I just couldn't believe for first he counted 150 post, lol.

I added a number to "Not sure". Cell surely superior to Magneto in speed, power, durability, and as @AnimeVice: made a very good point, Cell could explode him certainly from inside as he know every technique of Freeza. But I read that Magneto can control electrons too, and while I believe Cell could crush his forcefield, I don't think he could do it faster than though(the OP said Magneto start with forcefield on)... But if Magneto really can do things like that then he is the most overpowered character with physical body. He can beat anybody who has physical body. Classic Dr. Strange, Zoom, Lobo, he could defeat them too at once if the forcefield on.

Even if Magneto ripped him apart Cell will regen stronger! As for your question about DBZ strength thats tough, because I think you would have to look at how much force is needed to destroy a mountain or put someone through several! Maybe check some blast states from TNT blastings on mountains or something! As for the Quakes, I'd say check to see what types of bombs would create a seizmic event, because alot of fights in DBZ tend to cause quakes from the force of their blows!

Cell.

Agreed!

Can someone fix this link Please, my brouser isn't supported! This is What Magneto has to face: Skip to 11:37 to see a speed Magneto has never really faced in battle! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcyUU0S7ZPo

@mypasswordis1234 said:

I just want to mention two things:

That guy from X-men who can teleport, I forgot his name now, but his teleport really not literally instantly because he travel through some pocket dimension, just so fast it seem instantly. It was in cartoon so I don't say it for sure. But in dbz, it is stated to be instant.

About the forcefield, Cell is stronger than Piccolo in the Buu saga, and Piccolo could break Badibi's "forcefield". And Badibi survived Vegeta's sacrifice with that forcefield.

@Magethor said:

Magneto = 17

Cell = 47

Not sure = 5

What are these numbers?

Unique users who voted by opinion.

@All_Mighty_Beyonder said:

@mypasswordis1234 said:

I just want to mention two things:

That guy from X-men who can teleport, I forgot his name now, but his teleport really not literally instantly because he travel through some pocket dimension, just so fast it seem instantly. It was in cartoon so I don't say it for sure. But in dbz, it is stated to be instant.

About the forcefield, Cell is stronger than Piccolo in the Buu saga, and Piccolo could break Badibi's "forcefield". And Badibi survived Vegeta's sacrifice with that forcefield.

@Magethor said:

Magneto = 17

Cell = 47

Not sure = 5

What are these numbers?

thank you, so Nightcrawler's real power insn't instant, he teleport via dimensional travel (like hyperspace or someting).

and those numbers are numbers of votes, we can see that even when DBZ is much hated the majority agree that Cell obliterate Magneto.

@Paytience:

@Paytience said:

1. hah, no. i knew you'll bring that. Wally outrun the 2 cosmic beings, because their reaction time to activate teleportation was slower than Wally who was powerd by 2 planetary races kinetic force. so no, you're example fail. i bet you don't know better than me about Flash, specilally Wally West, so welcome to comicvine.

are you reading what you wrote or not, you're telling me that Magneto manipulated EM fields, tracked nightcrawler's disturbance in the field, set a trap and all of that in one instant? you're telling me that someone can work for moment in an instant? a moment in an instant? what nonsense are you trying to buy me here? what's bigger a moment or an instant? unless Magneto can litterally stop time, or opperate outside of time or wrap time it's impossible. cut the nonsense. that's too much wanking, hah, Mag with such riduculous instant reaction get tagged and punched by slow characters all the time. so naah, you're sooo wrong.

2. i'll say it one time : Cell is officially a Solar System Buster, and of course he can blow planets like nothing, or are you telling me that Frieza who's weaker than him can do it and Cell can't? it will be really laughable like hell.

and DBZ fighters had manytimes counter attacked by energy blasts after their enemy had thrown energy blast to their direction, and of course their energy blasts are faster than light, Piccolo's feat is the best example for that. and the best example of counter attacking is when Gohan after he was facing an energy blast that was only few meters from him, he charged and blasted his Kamehameha to counter it. so yeah Cell can throw his Kamehameha with FTL reflex.

Magneto's shield isn't holding planetary power, Galactus was warning him, and Pheonix was in weak state, or are you telling me now that Galactus is more powerful than Phoenix? or that Magneto can tank universal or several galaxy level? seriously? say yes and i'm out of here. i won't debate such fanboyism if you say yes.

3. oh boy, ok then, bring me that feat where Magneto can absorb light. then we can discuss this.

and since you're bringing this instance of Yakon, what happened after that? wasn't Yakon blown up? he was, because he can't handle energy of such level, energy beyond planetary level. so naah, you're point is moot.

4. first : bring me one feat in character no PIS, where Magneto can do what you're saying to someone outputing planetary level energy from all his body (energy that Mag can't handle), do that then we can argue about it. but talking about speculative actions that the character never did is useless.

second : you're neglecting the intensity part, an X power is operative untill it faces an intensity beyond control then the X power fail to work. controlling particules needs a great amount of concentration (it's not like controling massive objects) and under an overwhelming energy pressure, there is no way someone can opperate his power specially when it comes to small particules. this is common logic and recognized facts, if it wasn't the case, then anyone who can control particules would be able to control matter in black holes, shatter stars, and command matter in entire galaxy, it makes no sense, that's why there is power levels and limits to everything. for example, stars are all about EM, Magneto can't shatter stars beause he can't handle such energy pressure.

5. fair enough, this i agree, i thought you were talking about air currents as the only way they have. but it doesn't change the fact that Magneto operate his powers using his thoughts, and speed of thoughts is nowhere close to DBZ speed.

1. That's exactly what I'm saying. It SAYS IT IN THE SCAN. So, you're quite frankly, wrong.

And I quote:

"Sense disruptions along magnetic lines of force...and sense your destination almost before you do"

Yeah.

2. No, Cell is not officially a solar system buster; generating the energy t bust and actually busting are two entirely different things. He might have the energy, but focusing it into an attack are two ENTIRELY different things. Magneto's shield doesn't have to "hold" it in the first place...Cell can't use it.

3. Magneto doesn't have to control light, (He can...light is part of the EM Spectrum) he just has to be able to pull it away, which he can. Magneto can can bend and warp light around him to turn invisible, and has on panel feats of redirecting light. He also has on an panel feat siphoning energy from phoenix which cannot be simply pis because he has done it MULTIPLE times. Yakon blew up because he couldn't handle it...Magneto has absorbed planetary energy many times...as recently as AvX he was pulling energy from "every planet within reach" including the sun. And once again, the Pheonix has a power output that dwarfs anything in DBZ. Also...cell isn't even marginally as powerful as Goku was during the Buu saga in the first place. Jen Grey Phoenix destroyed a sun...Magneto drained her to a limit she didn't think she had. Example stands.

4. You're speculating on a ot of things cell can do...no the least of which is planet busting.

5. Magneto's synaptic action is 14000x more than human actually...and his power is Electromagnetic in nature. Furthermore, he can amp his natural abilities with his powers, and has been shown projecting his astral form along a lightspeed photon, tracking light speed objects, and he regular processes countless sensory signals along the EM Field moving billions of times faster than light (evidenced by the speed at which he feels them) The only way he can process stimuli moving faster than light is by having faster than light thought processing. Just like the Flash has superspeed processing to run faster than light, so that he can manage stimuli coming faster than him ftl, magneto HAS to have ftl processing to manage the stimuli coming at him ftl. Two sides...same coin. Therefore...no, DBZ is not faster then Magneto thinks.

1. well, as i thought, it's not instant, Nightcrawler's teleportation isn't instant, it take a certain amount of time. nothing in scan show an instant feat, you can see clearly that he moved the metallic objects from place to an other, that's an absolute proof that it's not instant. therefore what you said is wrong. and as i said before, Magneto can't opperate faster than thoughts, that's why he will be blitzed by faster than thoughts characters like Cell, Magneto was beaten and tagged by slower characters.

2. are you refuting official canon publications now? your word is nothing compared to Toryama's word. Cell said he can destroy the solar system (as Beyonder said he can destroy the multiverse and no one refute that) and the writer confirm that in official handbooks, so he can. get over it. and why are we talking about that? Cell with only planetbust attack will obliterate Magneto. and you have no proof of anything quantified that Magneto's shield can resist planet level blast.

3. it's nonsense if Magneto can handle Pheonix that is close to universal level, and at the same time can't hundle Galactus who's weaker than Phoenix. something is wrong. ok point me that issue now. where Magneto did what you say to Phoenix, i'm sure you're taking things out of context. point me what issue is it, i'll check it myself.

and Magneto turning himself invisible isn't helping him, Cell can still find him. you said it yourself, don't play smart with me here.

4. who's speculating here? who is making delusion feats without any canon evidence, i told you to bring me feats where Magneto do what you said : controling EM energy of living body of someone outputting planet level energy pressure. you didn't bring a thing. so you're the one speculating.

5. you're again speculating and speculating, sensing fast things doesn't mean he can move as fast as them. you have to back your words with evidences. where did Magneto ever make an attack or move FTL?

1. Dude are you f812989129861111 serious right now? Of course it takes time...EVERYTHING takes time. "Instant" isn't defined as not taking time; instant means it takes a very small amount of time. You can look that up. Nightcrawlers time in the brimstone dimension is so infitismal that he's never even PERCEIVED it before. You are trying to downplay a Magneto reaction feat by making nightcrawler's teleportation SLOWER. Do you have any idea how ridiculous that sounds? You're saying that Goku's version of teleportation is faster than Nightcrawler's, in which case, the onus is on YOU to prove it. Traveling via instant transmission still takes time. (And, for the record, IT is pocket dimension travel as well. Even if Goku is using Instant Movement, as he does in the Manga, and which the Kai's use, it still takes time. They dematerialize and travel in an energy form...like star trek) And STOP with the faster than thought...faster than a HUMAN thought. Magneto THINKS faster than any normal human, and that is CANON.

2. I'm not refuting Toriyama bright one. But Toriyama never established HOW cell destroys a planet, and that is absolutely important. Unless Cell displays a planet busting attack, HE DOESN'T HAVE ONE. That is what he'd have to throw at Magneto's shield for your argument to even have relevance. And it doesn't matter...Magneto bottlenecks him before he powers up to use it. Having the energy to blow up a planet, and actually having an attack that blows up a planet are entirely different things-MAJIN VEGETA RELEASED ALL HIS ENERGY AT ONCE WITHOUT DESTROYING THE PLANET.

3. The scan is in the thread. Deal with it.

Also, the Magneto turning invisible was presented as feat of CONTROLLING light, for the record. That's what was asked for...show Magneto controlling light. Wold you like to see him bending Dazzler's light? Because he's done that to...and Dazzlers light output combated a black hole.

And I said the Z FIGHTERS don't need to see. Cell. Is. NOT. Goku. He has the abilities and techniques of the Z fighters, but he doesn't have the same SKILL. There is a difference. There is no evidence whatsoever that Cell can track using air currents...that is a learned skill. Cell could track Goku using Ki sense and visual tracking because he is FASTER than Goku. It's why Gohan had no trouble following them visually...he's faster than both. When Cell was faced with a faster opponent, he was completely unable to follow him. No character in DBZ other than the Z fighters have been shown as able to track noticeably faster opponents...they use air currents. NOBODY ELSE HAS BEEN SHOWN WITH THIS ABILITY. Not Buu, not Yakon, not Frieza and not cell. It isn't a skill used by the super powerful, it's a SKILL obtained by the super SKILLED martial artists. EVEN SUPREME KAI COULDN'T DO IT.

4. Bring me a scan of cell manipulating EM Fields on a sub-atomic level. Energy pressure doesn't exist around magneto, it is really that simple.

5. Dude...wtf. You're reading comprehension skills are that of a toddler. It wasn't meant as a physical speed feat. I said from the BEGINNING that it's Magneto's mutant reflex that is faster than cell. The effect of his powers and the speed at which they operate are faster than cell. Magneto's powers work on thought. You said Cell moves faster than thought. The sensory feat and processing feat are to show that Magneto's mind THINKS AND PROCESSES vastly faster than a normal human. It's why every superspeeder has enhanced cognitive function; it's why Iron Man has enhanced cognitive functions...it's why MAGNETO has enhanced cognitive functions. So no, Cell cannot blitz faster than MAGNETO thinks, who constantly monitors, and with his powers, reacts to, BILLIONS of sensory stimuli moving vastly faster than light speed at once. And we KNOW that he perpetuates EM signals and fields with his powers ftl, because he can affect interstellar objects in real time, and draw on the EM energies of other planets.

@Warcry80 said:

Can someone fix this link Please, my brouser isn't supported! This is What Magneto has to face: Skip to 11:37 to see a speed Magneto has never really faced in battle! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcyUU0S7ZPo

Fixed =D

Also, people saying Cell TK's Magneto...seriously? That's you're argument? Telekensis. Against MAGNETO. Think that through real quick. A man who has reflected psionic attacks, and shut down psionic abilities?

This is man who fights of Xavier's psionic abilities, and your strategy against him is telekinesis? Good luck.

Thank You 1 Million times over!!!! You Rock!

One punch is all that is needed, Magneto has no way to permanently destroy Cell and believe me Magneto will get tired and that will be his end

That alone had to take some major strength by Cell!! That thing wasn't very small,and there is no telling how fast it was moving,and for him to stop it's path with only one hand says alot about Cell!

@Paytience said:

1. Dude are you f812989129861111 serious right now? Of course it takes time...EVERYTHING takes time. "Instant" isn't defined as not taking time; instant means it takes a very small amount of time. You can look that up. Nightcrawlers time in the brimstone dimension is so infitismal that he's never even PERCEIVED it before. You are trying to downplay a Magneto reaction feat by making nightcrawler's teleportation SLOWER. Do you have any idea how ridiculous that sounds? You're saying that Goku's version of teleportation is faster than Nightcrawler's, in which case, the onus is on YOU to prove it. Traveling via instant transmission still takes time. (And, for the record, IT is pocket dimension travel as well. Even if Goku is using Instant Movement, as he does in the Manga, and which the Kai's use, it still takes time. They dematerialize and travel in an energy form...like star trek) And STOP with the faster than thought...faster than a HUMAN thought. Magneto THINKS faster than any normal human, and that is CANON.

2. I'm not refuting Toriyama bright one. But Toriyama never established HOW cell destroys a planet, and that is absolutely important. Unless Cell displays a planet busting attack, HE DOESN'T HAVE ONE. That is what he'd have to throw at Magneto's shield for your argument to even have relevance. And it doesn't matter...Magneto bottlenecks him before he powers up to use it. Having the energy to blow up a planet, and actually having an attack that blows up a planet are entirely different things-MAJIN VEGETA RELEASED ALL HIS ENERGY AT ONCE WITHOUT DESTROYING THE PLANET.

3. The scan is in the thread. Deal with it.

Also, the Magneto turning invisible was presented as feat of CONTROLLING light, for the record. That's what was asked for...show Magneto controlling light. Wold you like to see him bending Dazzler's light? Because he's done that to...and Dazzlers light output combated a black hole.

And I said the Z FIGHTERS don't need to see. Cell. Is. NOT. Goku. He has the abilities and techniques of the Z fighters, but he doesn't have the same SKILL. There is a difference. There is no evidence whatsoever that Cell can track using air currents...that is a learned skill. Cell could track Goku using Ki sense and visual tracking because he is FASTER than Goku. It's why Gohan had no trouble following them visually...he's faster than both. When Cell was faced with a faster opponent, he was completely unable to follow him. No character in DBZ other than the Z fighters have been shown as able to track noticeably faster opponents...they use air currents. NOBODY ELSE HAS BEEN SHOWN WITH THIS ABILITY. Not Buu, not Yakon, not Frieza and not cell. It isn't a skill used by the super powerful, it's a SKILL obtained by the super SKILLED martial artists. EVEN SUPREME KAI COULDN'T DO IT.

4. Bring me a scan of cell manipulating EM Fields on a sub-atomic level. Energy pressure doesn't exist around magneto, it is really that simple.

5. Dude...wtf. You're reading comprehension skills are that of a toddler. It wasn't meant as a physical speed feat. I said from the BEGINNING that it's Magneto's mutant reflex that is faster than cell. The effect of his powers and the speed at which they operate are faster than cell. Magneto's powers work on thought. You said Cell moves faster than thought. The sensory feat and processing feat are to show that Magneto's mind THINKS AND PROCESSES vastly faster than a normal human. It's why every superspeeder has enhanced cognitive function; it's why Iron Man has enhanced cognitive functions...it's why MAGNETO has enhanced cognitive functions. So no, Cell cannot blitz faster than MAGNETO thinks, who constantly monitors, and with his powers, reacts to, BILLIONS of sensory stimuli moving vastly faster than light speed at once. And we KNOW that he perpetuates EM signals and fields with his powers ftl, because he can affect interstellar objects in real time, and draw on the EM energies of other planets.

alright, this stops here, i'm done with your gibberish , you keep repeating the same wrong speculations of yours without any feats backing it. i told you many times to bring proof of what you're saying but you keep ignoring that because you think every thing you speculate is true. also you're bringing wrong facts and maybe lying in purpose.

1. Nightcrawler's ability take an amount of time, but you brought nothing to quantify that moment, that proves nothing about Magneto's speed, for example, speed of human thought is about deciseconds, if Nightcrawler's teleportation take deciseconds it will look instant for human eyes and in the same time Magneto will be able to stop Nightcrawler so your statements prove nothing.

and by the way, Goku's INSTANT transmission is INSTANT, you're refering to the wrong translation where it's said that Goku's body turns to light particules to teleport at speed of light, which is wrong. go read the correct translations it states litterally that it's instant and there is no dimension or pocket dimension. hell even screwattack who was very biased admitted that INSTANT Transmission is INSTANT.

2.keep making wrong statements (lies if you really mean it), just keep doing it you're not helping your case the slightest. Cell said he has enough energy to blow not just earth but entire Solar System when he was about to fire his Kamehameha. and Toryama confirm that the Kamehameha Cell launched was enough to blow solar system. go check the official releases and stop making fallacies with straight face, you're just embarassing yourself ...sigh.

3. stop making fallacies, i'm starting to think you really lie in purpose just and do anything to make your favorite character victorious at any cost. sigh...

the fight where he bends Dazzler's attacks around him. That entire fight was an illusion produced by Jean Grey, it never actually happened. so stop making fallacies and lies.

waaw, and you keep making lies about DBZ and pretend you read it. cut it of. Cell has almost all DBZ fighters techniques and skills, that's why Dr Gero gathered all the data about their skills to program it in his Androids and Cell, Cell showed that he knows all DBZ fighters techniques and displayed them. your argument is soooo wrong that manga pop out to contradict it.

4. you said Magneto will break the EM force that link body particules of Cell who output planetary energy pressure from all his body, so bring me those scans as you claim, where Magneto did that to someone outputing planetary energy pressure from his body and have superdurability. you brought NOTHING, ZERO FEAT. so stop making speculation that has nothing to do with reality and canon feats. Magneto even tried that thing on many weak guys and failed like against Cannonball. so don't bring me this gibberish again.

5. sigh sigh sigh...again and again, i told you to prove your speculation but you keep repeating the same thing. you said "BILLIONS of sensory stimuli moving vastly faster than light speed at once. And he perpetuates EM signals and fields with his powers ftl" prove it. where did Magneto ever showed he has sensors faster than light? just prove it or stop lying.

and i know you was talking about his power not his body reflexes, it's you who's reading comprehension skills are that of a toddler, i told you that perceiving fast things doesn't mean he can move (his power) at the same perceiving speed. prove it. i'm not demanding mission impossible. just prove your words. or they will stay gibberish and wrong speculations. where did Magneto ever display matter/particule manipulation with FTL reaction?

.

as i said, i'm done with you. you keep repeating the same speculations with no canon feats or evidence to back it up. i won't respond to you untill you start debating seriously and bring evidence to what you say, or just stop adressing me with those void words and lies.

@Doctordark said:

One punch is all that is needed, Magneto has no way to permanently destroy Cell and believe me Magneto will get tired and that will be his end

@Warcry80 said:

That alone had to take some major strength by Cell!! That thing wasn't very small,and there is no telling how fast it was moving,and for him to stop it's path with only one hand says alot about Cell!

Akira must of meant for Cell to reach the Asteroid Belt and those Asteroids are moving in orbit around the sun at about 12 miles per second.

But if you count the Sun pulling the planets to the direction its traveling around the Galaxy, then the rate of speed is times that to 140 miles a second. Cell is still pretty strong to counter the effects of the gravity of the sun by slowing his rate of speed against the pull and stopping the asteroid at a near dead stop.

@All_Mighty_Beyonder said:

@Paytience said:

1. Dude are you f812989129861111 serious right now? Of course it takes time...EVERYTHING takes time. "Instant" isn't defined as not taking time; instant means it takes a very small amount of time. You can look that up. Nightcrawlers time in the brimstone dimension is so infitismal that he's never even PERCEIVED it before. You are trying to downplay a Magneto reaction feat by making nightcrawler's teleportation SLOWER. Do you have any idea how ridiculous that sounds? You're saying that Goku's version of teleportation is faster than Nightcrawler's, in which case, the onus is on YOU to prove it. Traveling via instant transmission still takes time. (And, for the record, IT is pocket dimension travel as well. Even if Goku is using Instant Movement, as he does in the Manga, and which the Kai's use, it still takes time. They dematerialize and travel in an energy form...like star trek) And STOP with the faster than thought...faster than a HUMAN thought. Magneto THINKS faster than any normal human, and that is CANON.

2. I'm not refuting Toriyama bright one. But Toriyama never established HOW cell destroys a planet, and that is absolutely important. Unless Cell displays a planet busting attack, HE DOESN'T HAVE ONE. That is what he'd have to throw at Magneto's shield for your argument to even have relevance. And it doesn't matter...Magneto bottlenecks him before he powers up to use it. Having the energy to blow up a planet, and actually having an attack that blows up a planet are entirely different things-MAJIN VEGETA RELEASED ALL HIS ENERGY AT ONCE WITHOUT DESTROYING THE PLANET.

3. The scan is in the thread. Deal with it.

Also, the Magneto turning invisible was presented as feat of CONTROLLING light, for the record. That's what was asked for...show Magneto controlling light. Wold you like to see him bending Dazzler's light? Because he's done that to...and Dazzlers light output combated a black hole.

And I said the Z FIGHTERS don't need to see. Cell. Is. NOT. Goku. He has the abilities and techniques of the Z fighters, but he doesn't have the same SKILL. There is a difference. There is no evidence whatsoever that Cell can track using air currents...that is a learned skill. Cell could track Goku using Ki sense and visual tracking because he is FASTER than Goku. It's why Gohan had no trouble following them visually...he's faster than both. When Cell was faced with a faster opponent, he was completely unable to follow him. No character in DBZ other than the Z fighters have been shown as able to track noticeably faster opponents...they use air currents. NOBODY ELSE HAS BEEN SHOWN WITH THIS ABILITY. Not Buu, not Yakon, not Frieza and not cell. It isn't a skill used by the super powerful, it's a SKILL obtained by the super SKILLED martial artists. EVEN SUPREME KAI COULDN'T DO IT.

4. Bring me a scan of cell manipulating EM Fields on a sub-atomic level. Energy pressure doesn't exist around magneto, it is really that simple.

5. Dude...wtf. You're reading comprehension skills are that of a toddler. It wasn't meant as a physical speed feat. I said from the BEGINNING that it's Magneto's mutant reflex that is faster than cell. The effect of his powers and the speed at which they operate are faster than cell. Magneto's powers work on thought. You said Cell moves faster than thought. The sensory feat and processing feat are to show that Magneto's mind THINKS AND PROCESSES vastly faster than a normal human. It's why every superspeeder has enhanced cognitive function; it's why Iron Man has enhanced cognitive functions...it's why MAGNETO has enhanced cognitive functions. So no, Cell cannot blitz faster than MAGNETO thinks, who constantly monitors, and with his powers, reacts to, BILLIONS of sensory stimuli moving vastly faster than light speed at once. And we KNOW that he perpetuates EM signals and fields with his powers ftl, because he can affect interstellar objects in real time, and draw on the EM energies of other planets.

alright, this stops here, i'm done with your gibberish , you keep repeating the same wrong speculations of yours without any feats backing it. i told you many times to bring proof of what you're saying but you keep ignoring that because you think every thing you speculate is true. also you're bringing wrong facts and maybe lying in purpose.

1. Nightcrawler's ability take an amount of time, but you brought nothing to quantify that moment, that proves nothing about Magneto's speed, for example, speed of human thought is about deciseconds, if Nightcrawler's teleportation take deciseconds it will look instant for human eyes and in the same time Magneto will be able to stop Nightcrawler so your statements prove nothing.

and by the way, Goku's INSTANT transmission is INSTANT, you're refering to the wrong translation where it's said that Goku's body turns to light particules to teleport at speed of light, which is wrong. go read the correct translations it states litterally that it's instant and there is no dimension or pocket dimension. hell even screwattack who was very biased admitted that INSTANT Transmission is INSTANT.

2.keep making wrong statements (lies if you really mean it), just keep doing it you're not helping your case the slightest. Cell said he has enough energy to blow not just earth but entire Solar System when he was about to fire his Kamehameha. and Toryama confirm that the Kamehameha Cell launched was enough to blow solar system. go check the official releases and stop making fallacies with straight face, you're just embarassing yourself ...sigh.

3. stop making fallacies, i'm starting to think you really lie in purpose just and do anything to make your favorite character victorious at any cost. sigh...

the fight where he bends Dazzler's attacks around him. That entire fight was an illusion produced by Jean Grey, it never actually happened. so stop making fallacies and lies.

waaw, and you keep making lies about DBZ and pretend you read it. cut it of. Cell has almost all DBZ fighters techniques and skills, that's why Dr Gero gathered all the data about their skills to program it in his Androids and Cell, Cell showed that he knows all DBZ fighters techniques and displayed them. your argument is soooo wrong that manga pop out to contradict it.

4. you said Magneto will break the EM force that link body particules of Cell who output planetary energy pressure from all his body, so bring me those scans as you claim, where Magneto did that to someone outputing planetary energy pressure from his body and have superdurability. you brought NOTHING, ZERO FEAT. so stop making speculation that has nothing to do with reality and canon feats. Magneto even tried that thing on many weak guys and failed like against Cannonball. so don't bring me this gibberish again.

5. sigh sigh sigh...again and again, i told you to prove your speculation but you keep repeating the same thing. you said "BILLIONS of sensory stimuli moving vastly faster than light speed at once. And he perpetuates EM signals and fields with his powers ftl" prove it. where did Magneto ever showed he has sensors faster than light? just prove it or stop lying.

and i know you was talking about his power not his body reflexes, it's you who's reading comprehension skills are that of a toddler, i told you that perceiving fast things doesn't mean he can move (his power) at the same perceiving speed. prove it. i'm not demanding mission impossible. just prove your words. or they will stay gibberish and wrong speculations. where did Magneto ever display matter/particule manipulation with FTL reaction?

.

as i said, i'm done with you. you keep repeating the same speculations with no canon feats or evidence to back it up. i won't respond to you untill you start debating seriously and bring evidence to what you say, or just stop adressing me with those void words and lies.

1. No I'm not the one who has to quantify Nightcrwaler's speed. I understand that IT is "instant". What you're not understanding is what "instant" is. It doesn't mean that something takes no time...it by definition is a very small amount of time. What Nightcrawler does is teleport which is defined as INSTANT travel. YOU are postulating that Goku's form of teleportation is faster than nightcrawlers. It could be a reasonable argument, however the burden of proof is on YOU to prove that, because by definition, they are the same thing.

And I wasn't referring to the speed of light thing at all. I was referring to the fact that what Goku does in the MANGA is called instant movement, or instant transportation. Which is the same technique that the Kais and baba use in DBZ. The term "instant transmission" is exclusively a funimation dub used to describe all nonspecific teleportation. By virtue of it being a funimation term, it is theirs to define, and is defined as hyperspatial travel. The instant movement however from the manga has two key differences: it doesn't require a ki signature, and it is a dematerialization into energy form for extremely fast travel, which of course is ftl; the kais traverse the universe with it. But it still. Takes. time. It is on you to prove that either one of these techniques are faster than the nightcrawler version of "instant travel". Also, I don't need to read a translation patnah; Watakushi wa nihongo go hanashimasu...I speak Japanese.

2. Cell can say whatever he wants. He still has to show it ON PANEL. FEATS decide matches in the arena. Also,link to when Toriyama said his Kamehameha can destroy the solar system. The exact translation in the Manga is "I have enough Ki to destroy the solar system." You're stating that he has a planet busting attack, which is on you to prove. You also have to prove that he can do it WITHOUT powering uo, which is the cusp of my whole argument that you are trying to ignore.

3. It isn't a lie or a fallacy; Magneto can control light. Its that simple...dazzler fight, touche. But it doesn't change facts. Magneto has controlled on multiple occasions and has siphoned Phoenix before. You can argue all you want, but Jean Grey is a solar system buster, and Magneto siphoned her. The Phoenix, even a fraction of it, is more than what Cell can generate energy wise.

It's not wrong. Cell was given powers and techniques, that doesn't mean he has the same SKILL at using them. Tracking with air currents is a SKILL, not a technique, ability or power. He wasn't given their training. There are instants in the manga where it SHOWS he can't track other than visually or with Ki. If he could detect movements with air currents the androids would of never been able to hide from him on the island when he was in close proximity, and 16 NEVER would of been able to sneak up on him. There are instances of him not being able to track with air currents and NONE of him doing so. Conclusion: he can't do it.

4. You're not getting it. Cell doesn't generate that energy WITHOUT POWERING UP. That is the cusp of the whole argument. Cell is a genetic amalgam fueled and held together by bioelectricity which is electromagnetic. Before cell ever powerups Magneto can cut him off from that bioelectricity and if he tries to powerup Magneto can siphon the light stopping the powerup. It has nothing to do with matching Cell's power as it's about BEATING cells power. And no, cell doesn't have planetary durability without Ki generation; if he did, he wouldn't of been threatened by the nuke type bomb that 16 was armed with.

5. You're saying that Cell can blitz faster than Magneto can think, because Cell by your estimation is faster than human thought. Magneto however, at base, THINKS faster than a normal human. "Neural Synaptic Sparking 1450% above normal". You have to prove Cell can power up and blitz faster than that. That is on you. Further more, Magneto has shown that when using his powers, his thought processes are even FASTER. If they weren't, then he would never be able to affect light speed objects. The man picks and chooses individual photons to use when creating holograms. He sensed a planet being destroyed in another galaxy in real time; the closest inhabited planet to earth in marvel is norrin radd's. To receive sensory stimuli from that far away that quickly, those stimuli had to of been moving billions of times faster than light. Processing extrasensory stimuli that fast requires ftl thinking. Furthermore, Magneto has drawn on the EM Fields of other planets, and affected interstellar objects from earth...doing so means that he can perpetuate propagation of EM Fields FFFAAAARRR beyond light speeds. He has done repeatedly. conclusion: Magneto's powers, and his ability to access them, are faster than light. Even if his reflexes aren't.

Cell never get's the chance to power up...thus, Cell loses this fight. Badly.

@mypasswordis1234: Yeah, he can. He has fixed Collossus sub atomically, destroyed the techno organic virus in Cable the same way, and has shut down the mutant gene. Oh...also, this:

Magneto really is just that powerful. The biggest problem writers have with his character is that the powerset they gave him makes nigh unbeatable, so they constantly nerf him, or handicap him with plot. Well he hasn't really been retconned, he has been "depowered" by the writers more times than I can count. It's going on right now actually.

@Paytience said:

Hm, I see that he need to be close? And it takes some second to do?(not simply as fast as the thought) He has his limits then. Or maybe he did it slower because he cared about that girl. I don't know the context of that story, so I still say Magneto is one of the most overpowered character.

Though I forgot one thing. Cell's durability come from ki. The ki is flown through his body, and the ki doesn't have particles. The ki, therefore protect him from even just to being moved, his electrons too. Magneto can't control ki. So Cell has a protection. Though I don't know Magneto's limit, but it's arguable now who could break through the enemy's defend first.

@mypasswordis1234: Cell needs to GENERATE Ki before it protects him is the point. Magneto can stop him before he get's a chance to generate it. He doesn't have to interact with the Ki at all. Cell is built and fueled off of bioenergy, hence the reason he sucked up cities full of people. THAT is what Magneto can affect. He affects the very substance that holds cell together. There is no evidence whatsoever that ki protects subatomic EM bonding, and none whatsoever that cell can prevent the bio matter that he metabolizes from being cut off. See what I mean? Magneto never has to deal with Cell's Ki. as far as the ragne thing...Magnetos powers wrk as fast as thought...he thinks, it happens. However, because proteus was a new form of of energy for him, he had to get close enough to observe it and figure it out, so he played possum for a few panels. My whole argument is that without powering up, Cell cannot reasonably affect Magneto's forcefield, he isn't fast enough to blitz him when Magneto has beaten a teleporter to the punch and cell hasn't, and Cell can't power up because it's been shown that by affecting the light of their auras, you can affect their ki; drain one you drain the other. Magneto has bottle necked the Jean Gray phoenix before. Top that off with the fact that Cell is comprised of a type of energy and matter that Magneto is a master of, and it's pretty much a wrap. Not trying to beat a dead horse, but just thought I'd sum up what I've been saying this whole time for you so you don't have to backtrack through the whole thread.

For the record, Magneto has affected matter on a sub-atomic scale over a distance before.

If Cell were to start this fight at full power, I might change my opinion a bit, but I would still give mags the small majority.

Like I said in the beginning: styles make fights.

Magneto...

@Paytience: The op says they chat 10 min before the fight. And Cell can power up faster than thought to a level his durability high enough. But in that 10 min, he could power up to a decent level comfortable.

I don't know why do you use the bioenergy word. Did Cell used this word? Cuz while the life force/ki is a similar word, it isn't the same thing. Cell sucked up the ki as ki, and the body as food. There aren't anything special(in Cell) that Magneto can control better, still just the electrons.

Also the ki flown through body, not like Iron Man's armor. Why wouldn't it include on subatomic level? How could they be super durable if anything smaller part of them isn't durable?

I don't comment the forcefield and the blitz part, but I don't agree with those.

Previously on Magneto vs. Cell in Comicvine Battles forum....

@All_Mighty_Beyonder said:

@Paytience: you're post s so wrong and full of overestimation i don't know where to start.

1st : put in your mind, that no one is faster than instant teleportation, it makes no sense, unless you can warp time, whatever speed you reach you'll never surpass instant teleportation.

@All_Mighty_Beyonder said:

1. Nightcrawler's ability take an amount of time, .......

and by the way, Goku's INSTANT transmission is INSTANT, ......

@All_Mighty_Beyonder said:

@Darrius:

Since you mentioned physics, let me help you, nothing is faster than light......

There is no such thing as "instant" teleportation. Here though, I don't want to focus on the teleportation, which is obviously impossible (but this is comics), but rather the "instant" part. Even if teleportation were possible it would still have a measurable speed.No two events are truly simultaneous, thus your assertion, that no one is faster than instant teleportation is wrong. It's more evidence onDBZ homerism. If I had to guess I would say you think it's the fastest thing going because you saw it in DBZ, therefore it must the fastest, biggest, strongest, or whatever "est" is best for the situation.

seriously man, basing your argument on your pure speculations and feelings won't help you. at least next time you want to counter a scientific argument you should make scientific argument as well. the only correct part n your statement is nothing is faster than light, that everybody know, but writers skip that fact to make their characters a liitle special, but generally it is always the case excpt when it comes to character's travel (they neglect that fact).

your argument is weak, teleportation in comics is instant, everybody knows that, don't tell me you think your the only one right and all the community of comic readers are wrong. :D and besides that, since you really want to challenge me in scientific debate, bring it on buddy, and yes, "instant" exist in science, didn't you here about quantum entanglement and superposition? it's a fact proven by experiences. you're denying scientific facts here.

Simultaneous Events

Google "simultaneous events" and read the first 2 or 3 links. I'm not the one that's right, Einstein is the one that's right. What you call "instant teleportation" is not instant at all. The simultaneity of events is relative just like everything else. What one person perceives as two events, such as Event A (Goku disappearing) and Event B (Goku reappearing) happening at the same instant; another person watching the same two events from a different frame of reference can perceive that one Event A (Goku disappearing) clearly happens before the other Event B (Goku disappearing).

My point is all of this? Well I have two points. First as I and Paytience have been trying to tell you, all things have a measurable speed. Second, if Goku's instant transmission were truly instant, then he could be everywhere at once. There is no reason why he could not go to 2 trillion different locations at once since each transmission takes 0 time. Third, early on in this debate, you defined as an absolute law that no one could go from Point A to Point B faster than Goku. When that is your starting point you can only reach conclusions that favor people closest to Goku. Unless it is a provable and proven fact (and it not, in this very thread Paytience actually proved that teleports can be outrun), then it's bias.

------------------------------------------------------------------

@onilordasmodeus said:

@Darrius said:

People have metal in their body. It's trace amounts, but it's there. Whether Cell is 100% organic or not there is still metal in his body, and that metal is enough. Arguing that Cell is a giant battery and has a supercomputer controlling him is actually making the case for Magneto. Neither cell nor anybody else can control any EM field in the presence of Magneto. That is what Magneto does. It is really his only power. It just happens to be one of the fundamental forces in nature (in real life), and that makes it really, REALLY powerful.

But what I really to direct attention to here is Onilord's references to the power levels. What this thread has come down to is a few people saying that Cell, as a DBZ character, can generate enough power to destroy planets and others saying that it doesn't matter how much energy he can generate, he can not win this match-up. Fights with DBZ characters always end up like this. But the match-ups matter more than the power a character can generate. A truck can generate enough power to pull several tons, but I can disable it with by cutting one wire, or removing on wheel, or by putting sugar in the gas tank. The biggest, most powerful machines can be destroyed by a grain of sand in the wrong place.

Magneto can do A LOT with an amount of metal so small that it is barely more than nothing. If that wasn't enough, Magneto can do A LOT with anything than can be affected by an EM field, and that is almost anything. Here he has time to study how to attack his enemy and he is fighting in an adamantium city. Mags isn't losing this fight, if you can call it that.

I get that, but you can't say that Magneto can over power Cell's "perfect" control just because "that's what Magneto does."(emphasis added)

Yes I can say that. Because that is what Magneto does. Mind you, I'm not saying that Magneto can control Cell's body like a psychic would, and tell him how to walk, talk, and think. But I am saying that Magneto could control the metal and the EM fields in Cell's body, because Magneto can control any EM field. The fact that it's in Cell's body makes no difference.

@onilordasmodeus said:

And to be clear, NO, I'm not saying Cell wins because he can destroy planets, and I actually take offense to that (a little) becuase you are trying to equate my argument to a fanboy-ish type thought process.

I'm not trying to make enemies or cause offense, but you are saying that Cell wins because he can destroy planets; and that, indeed, is looking at it with ki-colored glasses. Again I am not trying to offend, and I apologize if it did, but its a fact.

This is your argument...

@onilordasmodeus said:

The fact of the matter is that though Magneto can effect all EM fields, Cell's ki (which Paytience equated to an EM field) is under Cell's complete control. Magento may be able to affect some of it once Cell releases control of it, but while it's in him, while Cell is generating it, it's under his complete control.

A "real world" example would be gravitational fields; while they are very different from EM fields, like EM fields, everything generates one. To over power the gravitiational pull of the Earth (or even an atom) what ever wants to separate itself has to create a huge about of power, MUCH stronger than the initial gravity well. When I say Cell generates more power than the Earth, I mean that. That power is concentrated in him...in each and every one of his cells. He is essentially a dense cell of energy. To separate that energy from Cell would take some more power full than the Earth (and by extention Magneto)...or magic.

lkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk

You are saying that Cell is IMMUNE to Magneto's ability specifically because he can generate enough energy to destroy a planet. By the way, destroying a planet is a feat that Cell never displayed, but had to be able to do in order to be a threat to the heroes in DBZ. By your logic, Cell could be holding a magnet as big as he is, and Magneto could not control that magnet because it is being held by Cell. You are making a standard power argument. You are saying that as far as Cell is concerned, magneto is a mosquito and not a vampire. Both drink your blood but mosquitoes don't take enough to kill. Your logic could apply to most any other fighter from DBZ in place of Cell, and I have seen others on this board make the same argument all the time. Paytience has been arguing against that logic in this case, quite effectively I might add, saying that Magneto is a big as Cell if not bigger. I agree with him but I have been debating more from the other direction.

I am saying that a body, Cell's body included, is a complex machine (I should have said "Cell's body especially") that generates energy; and that there is enough metal and EM fields in Cell for Magneto to stop the machine from working properly. Furthermore Magneto doesn't need to generate a lot of energy himself to do it.

WOW!!!! You rock, thank you so much for that!!!!!

@Darrius: Instant Transmission can still be instant without making Goku omnipresent. You're ignoring the other mechanics of it. It takes energy and a ki signal to teleport. Goku, while very powerful, does not have infinite energy, so he cannot do infinite jumps. It also takes him a moment to acquire a lock on his target. And last, there appears to be a small time delay between jumps, so while the actual "movement" may be instant, the events that lead up to that are not.

Furthermore, relativity doesn't necessarily apply to this anyway. Teleportation isn't real, so conceptually, it's impossible to test and. A much more simple explanation is that teleportation is simply impossible in the real world.

@Darrius:

A few of things...

1) No you can't say (basically) that Magneto's will (his power) is stronger than Cell's will (his control) just because "that is what he does." It doesn't fly and would be PIS if it did.

Cell comands a huge amount of power and is able to focus it all masterfully. Though Magneto has shown an ability to adapt and out think many opponents in order to use his influence in unforseen ways to beat them, Cell's savant-like abilites to adapt and read techniques (Goku's DNA), coupled with the fact that he is far beyond human intelegence (Piccolo's/Vegeta's DNA and other reasons), and his ability to regen at will makes him almost unkillable to Magneto.

2) Paytience's (initial) argument about draining Cell's power revolved around sapping the "light" produced by the act of Cell powering up. Cell has only produced a visible light once in the Anime, and that was when he chose to do it. Any other time Cell has powered up his aura was a "normal" DBZ aura, which doesn't produce light. That means he can't drain or manipulate any of Cell's energy unless under specific stipulations.

3) The scan Paytience provided where Mag "bottle-necked" Phoenix's power, while an impressive feat in itself, doesn't apply to Cell directly because unlike Phoenix, Cell's power comes from within him. Mag, according to the scan, essentially erected a bottle of EM energy around Jean using it to slow the power coming into her from the Phoenix force, and draw the power of of her "like a sponge." How much power did she have in her to begin with?

(This is where we are disconecting, and while Paytience is making a great case...IMO he's wrong.)

As I said before, Cell's energy comes from with in him, and compared to the Earth, Cell is the Sun. Cell has enough energy in him to destroy/overwhelm the Earth 50+ times over, and as such, the amount of power the Earth can pull is literally nothing to him. In order for Magneto to sapp Cell's power the way he did Phoenix, he'd need a bigger conduit since the Earth can't do it (or at least no fast enough). But not only that...Jean's body, Phoenix's host, was/is completely human, which Magneto knows in and out thus he can manipulate. Cell's genetic make-up is completely alien, and while we can speculate that Magneto can learn his genome with time, Cell's cells function completely different than a human cell.

Unlike a human who is made up of cells, Cell is his cells; one cell is Cell; and Cell can regenerate himself at will. Add to that, when enough "damage" is done to enough of Cell's cells, he gets a Zenkai bump, they/he adapts. While Mag can try to attack Cell's cells in order to sap them, or kill them, the fact of the matter is that he would just be giving Cell more power (and knowledge) in the end throughout the fight and his regenerative boost.

I am saying that a body, Cell's body included, is a complex machine (I should have said "Cell's body especially") that generates energy; and that there is enough metal and EM fields in Cell for Magneto to stop the machine from working properly. Furthermore Magneto doesn't need to generate a lot of energy himself to do it.

While you can acurately equate Cell's body to a complex machine, you also have to take into account that it is machine with the inherent ability to adapt and change itself on the fly. As fast as Magneto can learn and disrupt this machine, the machine can learn, regen, and adapt in order to counter.

I also agree with other's in the thread that Cell's TK is enough to kill Magneto outright. Either he'd blow him up or crush him outside, or inside, of his shield.

Magneto definitely has the ability to beat Cell. But he isn't beating Cell.

Epic Mismatch.

#No_Further_Questions

/thread

Omniscience.

@Laurcus said:

@Darrius: Instant Transmission can still be instant without making Goku omnipresent. You're ignoring the other mechanics of it. It takes energy and a ki signal to teleport. Goku, while very powerful, does not have infinite energy, so he cannot do infinite jumps. It also takes him a moment to acquire a lock on his target. And last, there appears to be a small time delay between jumps, so while the actual "movement" may be instant, the events that lead up to that are not.

Furthermore, relativity doesn't necessarily apply to this anyway. Teleportation isn't real, so conceptually, it's impossible to test and. A much more simple explanation is that teleportation is simply impossible in the real world.

Beyonder was using the word "instant" to take 0 time, not a really, really small amount of time, but a perfect zero amount of time. If he can do that then, yes, he can be multi-present or even omni-present. And yes that would effectively be infinite energy, because while we may say that the jump costs energy, there is no time for the energy to be consumed. He could theoretically use infinite jumps because the energy for the jump would still be there. Even if his "wind up" takes time, if he saw 50 targets he could go to all fifty targets, after one wind up, in time 0, because it takes no time.

@onilordasmodeus said:

@Darrius:

A few of things...

1) No you can't say (basically) that Magneto's will (his power) is stronger than Cell's will (his control) just because "that is what he does." It doesn't fly and would be PIS if it did.

Cell comands a huge amount of power and is able to focus it all masterfully. Though Magneto has shown an ability to adapt and out think many opponents in order to use his influence in unforseen ways to beat them, Cell's savant-like abilites to adapt and read techniques (Goku's DNA), coupled with the fact that he is far beyond human intelegence (Piccolo's/Vegeta's DNA and other reasons), and his ability to regen at will makes him almost unkillable to Magneto.

2) Paytience's (initial) argument about draining Cell's power revolved around sapping the "light" produced by the act of Cell powering up. Cell has only produced a visible light once in the Anime, and that was when he chose to do it. Any other time Cell has powered up his aura was a "normal" DBZ aura, which doesn't produce light. That means he can't drain or manipulate any of Cell's energy unless under specific stipulations.

3) The scan Paytience provided where Mag "bottle-necked" Phoenix's power, while an impressive feat in itself, doesn't apply to Cell directly because unlike Phoenix, Cell's power comes from within him. Mag, according to the scan, essentially erected a bottle of EM energy around Jean using it to slow the power coming into her from the Phoenix force, and draw the power of of her "like a sponge." How much power did she have in her to begin with?

(This is where we are disconecting, and while Paytience is making a great case...IMO he's wrong.)

As I said before, Cell's energy comes from with in him, and compared to the Earth, Cell is the Sun. Cell has enough energy in him to destroy/overwhelm the Earth 50+ times over, and as such, the amount of power the Earth can pull is literally nothing to him. In order for Magneto to sapp Cell's power the way he did Phoenix, he'd need a bigger conduit since the Earth can't do it (or at least no fast enough). But not only that...Jean's body, Phoenix's host, was/is completely human, which Magneto knows in and out thus he can manipulate. Cell's genetic make-up is completely alien, and while we can speculate that Magneto can learn his genome with time, Cell's cells function completely different than a human cell.

Unlike a human who is made up of cells, Cell is his cells; one cell is Cell; and Cell can regenerate himself at will. Add to that, when enough "damage" is done to enough of Cell's cells, he gets a Zenkai bump, they/he adapts. While Mag can try to attack Cell's cells in order to sap them, or kill them, the fact of the matter is that he would just be giving Cell more power (and knowledge) in the end throughout the fight and his regenerative boost.

I am saying that a body, Cell's body included, is a complex machine (I should have said "Cell's body especially") that generates energy; and that there is enough metal and EM fields in Cell for Magneto to stop the machine from working properly. Furthermore Magneto doesn't need to generate a lot of energy himself to do it.

While you can acurately equate Cell's body to a complex machine, you also have to take into account that it is machine with the inherent ability to adapt and change itself on the fly. As fast as Magneto can learn and disrupt this machine, the machine can learn, regen, and adapt in order to counter.

I also agree with other's in the thread that Cell's TK is enough to kill Magneto outright. Either he'd blow him up or crush him outside, or inside, of his shield.

1. No...you're not getting it. Cell has control over Ki...Magneto has manipulation over all of Cell's bodies higher functions. CELL CANNOT FIGHT THAT AND HAS NEVER SHOWN THE ABILITY TO. When he regenerated from the cell in the anime, he didn't even know the ability was there. It happened autonomously. It doesn't matter how much control or power cell has with Ki, because his basic cellular structure is still just that: cellular structure. He is a genetic amalgam of cells.. Cells are held together by an extra cellular matrix which binds the cells together and allows them to communicate with each other using bioelectricity. Magneto never has to confront Cell's Ki, point blank, period. Yes Cell has an alien physiology, but it's biology 101, and Gero was still EARTH based. To negate this fact, you would have to prove that gero found some other way to bind cells together. Until you do, the fact doesn't change that Magneto can disrupt the VERY COHESION of Cells body and the communication between cells, preventing him from functioning in his normal capacity. (Let's not even get into the whole, Magneto has shut down selected genomes before.

Yet and still, to answer someone elses question, I get the term "bioenergy" from the fact that well Cell may absorb Ki from people, he takes all their bio matter. Cell himself defines it as "bio-extraction". This means that well he absorbs Ki, he metabolizes animal biology; the only reason to do this is because animals have a higher concentration bioelectric energy than anything else. Whereas the androids use energy capacitors and infinite reactors, cell is essentially a bioengine.

If it was just ki that he was absorbing, he wouldn't need the biological mass.

2. They glow whenever exerting themselves...the light doesn't change color unless it's a certain amount of ki however. The effect when they're flying, for example, is a glowing aura of white light. But it's moot anyway. The aura's are an overflow of Ki; no glow means they have perfect control over the amount of power they are wielding at that point; Goku and Gohan at SSJ, for example, after they trained. However, when they power up, they have to glow. My whole point to that argument, is that Cell isn't powerful or fast enough at base to negate Magneto's shield, so he would HAVE to power up; however, Magneto can prevent him from doing so, and keep him at base level.

3. Jean and the Phoenix are one...the Phoenix force resides in her. That is pretty much fact. However, as has been shown before, after extreme exertion, the phoenix must recharge itself. (or tap into the souls of unborn life...but as far as I know, that's a wpotc thing) It has recharged before by you know, eating a sun. However, DBZ characters also have to recharge after exertion. What you are exerting is that Cell has more power generation than a multiuniversal force. (we know he was severely drained after the fight with Goku...he was losing power, but Goku was draining faster. If he wasn't, Goku wouldn't of insisted on giving him a senzu bean)

Yes, he formed earths em field into a "bottle" to draw it out. It doesn't matter how much power Cell generates, only a certain amount can pass through at a time; hence, cell can't overwhelm "the conduit". And even if that were the case, as I've stated before in this thread, Magneto has drawn on the EM field of other planets before in no time flat.

4.Getting back to the Cell is cells thing...once again, it doesn't matter. Magneto can't figure out cell's genome in time? The man is a genius geneticist, on par with Sinister and Apoc. Unlike them however, he get's a first hand subatomic "view" of your antire physiology. Add to the fact that he's given time in this fight. Disregarding the whole "watched the cell games" thing...they spend 5 minutes talking. He absolutely has time to figure out Cell's physiology, because nothing is different about him except for the way they are arranged. The man figured out the energy that a complete energy being was made of midcombat...said being was made out of an energy that doesn't even exist in the EM Spectrum, and had complete control over it...Magneto ripped him apart. Cells are Cells, they are made up of molecules, which are comprised of atoms bound together by em fields. That is the makeup of all matter in universe. It doesn't matter how his body is put together ultimately, because the pieces he is put together with are the same. Magneto can unbind the atoms that the cells are made of. He does this all at once. When Magneto wills someone gone, they are gone from the atom up. No electrons, no molecules, no cells, no regen, no zenkai. If cell can't power up, he's gone with a fraction of a thought.

Also, the idea that TK is gonna work against Magneto is a bit ludicrous. The man shuts down psionics and has fought of Jean grey and Xavier simultaneously while distracted. One of his greatest opponents is arguably, the greatest TK in comics; Jean Grey can use her TK to rearrange atoms. Nothing Cell has done with TK puts him anywhere near the level of psionics that Magneto fights on the regular.

@onilordasmodeus said:

@Darrius:

A few of things...

1) No you can't say (basically) that Magneto's will (his power) is stronger than Cell's will (his control) just because "that is what he does." It doesn't fly and would be PIS if it did.

Cell comands a huge amount of power and is able to focus it all masterfully. Though Magneto has shown an ability to adapt and out think many opponents in order to use his influence in unforseen ways to beat them, Cell's savant-like abilites to adapt and read techniques (Goku's DNA), coupled with the fact that he is far beyond human intelegence (Piccolo's/Vegeta's DNA and other reasons), and his ability to regen at will makes him almost unkillable to Magneto.

No,.... PIS would be to say that the metal and EM fields inside of Cell are the only EM fields and is the only metal in the entirety of fiction that Magneto can not control.

@onilordasmodeus said:

@Darrius:

As I said before, Cell's energy comes from with in him, and compared to the Earth, Cell is the Sun.

That means he needs to eat. You don't get something from nothing, so Cell either absorbs energy from the outside, or he eats things and uses what he eats for energy...hmm...I wonder if there's any metal in that? With all the people Cell has eaten there is going to be more that enough metal in his body for Mags to use kill every single cell. He's probably got enough metal in his body to make....a staple...or a paper clip...God forbid, if one of the people he ate had a key in their pocket.

@onilordasmodeus said:

@Darrius:

Unlike a human who is made up of cells, Cell is his cells; one cell is Cell; and Cell can regenerate himself at will.

That assumes that those Cell's are working properly.

@onilordasmodeus said:

@Darrius:

While you can acurately equate Cell's body to a complex machine, you also have to take into account that it is machine with the inherent ability to adapt and change itself on the fly. As fast as Magneto can learn and disrupt this machine, the machine can learn, regen, and adapt in order to counter.

Again that assumes that those cells are working properly, AND you over-estimate their adaptability. You can't adapt matter to not be affected by an EM field.

Cell wins

@god_spawn@jedixman Dragon Ball vs comics thread that hasn't been locked yet.

INB4 Lock.

@rogueshadow

Mags via blood control. He'll just sense and tear up every cell Cell has.

@106me: Cell has regenerated from a single cell.

Can use multiform so Magneto will start getting a dazed right out of the bat.

Gallery

^ can use solar flare and blind Magento and one shot him with a ki blast or something like that.

@empressofdread: I understand what you're saying, but Magneto has paralyzed people, controlled them, ripped them apart, etc. by controlling their blood. He'll just tear Cell apart cell by cell.

Besides, Cell isn't getting through Mags' autoshields.