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#51 Posted by chiq (2022 posts) - - Show Bio

@zeroplus said:

As far as i know MMH and Plastic man don't have blood, so i guess they stomp Magneto and Storm

Isn't MMH blood actually more rich in iron then normal humans? ( not saying he can't beat mags cause he can) and Plastic Man can be frozen so maybe Storm can Flash freeze him. Storm can't kill Plas but she might be able to immobilize him. Mags or Storm can't stop most JLA line ups for sure though.

#52 Posted by DarkRaiden (8222 posts) - - Show Bio

@chiq said:

@darkraiden said:

@chiq: You're mistakenly going for ABC logic when it doesn't apply. Cool Magik can get inside of Legion's head. Cool, she can tank a building busting attack, can regen, and can beat down Mephisto's hordes with a sword that specifically allows her to do that. Cool, she has feats here and feats there, but literally none of that protects her from getting a lightning bolt that paralyzes her and then one that shorts out her brain/synapses. Storm can do this in far less than a second. None of that protects her from blood rip. She simply has no answer.

Nate Grey hasn't shown anything impressive to me. His shield was broken by Hulk and TP and TK don't work well against Storm and Mags.

First of all Magik can teleport others and herself while paralyzed. She teleported away while she was being held by Jean's TK and TP. She also teleported herself and her team even when she was fuzed and trapped in stone by S'ym. She can heal from attacks while Magento and Storm can't. She has a much much bigger chance of surviving a hit then Erik or Storm since she has been hit by beings with more power then either of them.

Magik can teleport Storms head off in less then a second too. She can depower them as well and freeze them in place. She can turn them to dust or rip them apart and make them explode. Magik has a much bigger chance of evading Storm and Magneto then vice versa. She can teleport out of their range in a millisecond on top of having much greater durability plus healing factor. She is more mobile,she has better defenses and durability, she has greater range and a much more versatile powerset on top of more raw power. Magik doesnt need to see her targets to teleport them, she just has to think it. She can teleport Magento's and Storm's head off from Limbo or the outside the galaxy. She can go anywhere in space and time so that means her range is basically unlimited. She can dump them in the sun with a thought while being safely on the moon. She has teleported them out of harms way (blitzes and blasts) and she out reacted whole teams of x-men. Teleporting x-men out of trouble is what she does.

Nate and Magik have more options of surviving attacks from Storm or Magneto. Storm and Magneto have no chance surviving their heads teleported off or turned to dust by Nate's TK instantly. It's like saying Storm and Magneto beat Hela, Doc Strange, or a being on par with the most powerful heralds by manipulating their blood or hitting them with lighting. Magik can survive w/o having a soul. A little blood loss won't put her down especially since she can regen from getting ripped or shredded apart.

Magik and Nate deal with threats much bigger then Storm and Magneto all of who can easily replicate whatever Storm and Magneto do. Their rouges are insanely powered. Magik can warp reality and Nate is just a big powerhouse.

It's not abc logic since Magik and Nate face opponents and arch enemies who can do the same exact thing and do even more... much more. It's not like comparing a brick vs a speedster. Anything That Magneto and Storm can do their opponents can as well. They not only can they manipulate blood or use lightning, they can just turn other beings into toads and trap your soul. Dormammu tried to kill her with everything he had and failed. If Dormammu can't kill her, a Magik fighting to the best of her abilities won't be going down to Storm or Mags. Mags and Storm by themselves couldn't even put down her demon underlings during Inferno.

Forget it, if you honestly think Magneto and Storm out power and beat Nate and Magik be my guest. I'm done with this thread.

But she won't just be paralyzed, her brain will be shut down. And that will be immediately as Storm can do that with her lightning. Again, she's never teleported the limbs off of people, just 1 large tentacle from some weird abomination thing.

Prove she can teleport with that much precision and maybe you have an argument for a stalemate.

And only way Magik teleports out of their range is if she leaves the time/dimension they're in and then she's lost the fight via BFR'ing herself because she was scared/felt she could lose. And still nothing gives her lightning+ reflexes. Regen? So did Hulk and Storm shut down his brain/killed him as well.

Storm and Magneto have faced Onslaught, Apocalypse, Phoenix, Legion, etc. so they've also faced powerhouses that can do everything Magik can do.

Nate's TK literally can't work on Storm, she's straight up stopped TK from working, and Magneto's caused a planetwide EMP that messed up all psychic powers before.

Dormammu uses only magic, Storm uses natural lightning that is buffed in strength. They're two different beasts. Strange and Scarlet Witch and others that have beaten Dormammu can still lose to Storm and Magneto because paralysis and shutting down the brain and blood ripping is more effective than just powerful magic in some cases. Mostly due to magic users having defense against magic but not against those types of attacks. Any of them could beat Nate and Magik.

#53 Edited by chiq (2022 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkraiden: I posted scans of in my previous post. Belasco (Magik's mentor) a weaker version of Magik is tanking electricity bolts and attacks similar to a blood rip. I also posted a scan showing that Magik knows everything he knows and is even more powerful.

Magik can teleport w/ great precision: She can teleport right on top of moving objects

She teleports the e-team in perfect battle formation surrounding UNIT (This is her first port into the area) In the other scan she teleports the E-team right on top of multiple moving enemies while extracting feeling civilians at the same time. (Again a first time port)

She also travels from the past right into her bed room. She can turn invisible and intangible and astral. She can blow up even opponents who are supposed to be immune to magic. She gets stabbed and simply heals. She can cast Illusions and make opponents fight each other.

She teleports a demon right on top of a flying opponent. She teleports Scott and co after the bullet was fired a continent away. by the time Scott says no.. he is back in home base. She isn't even in the area. She dumps some goons in a volcano.

She casually evades Mjolnir from close range and casually teleports or tanks Thor's AOE attack. She just there smirking right behind him. She puts up sheilds that teleport multiple lasers aimed right at her not just one but mulitiple shots. She can even redirect those attacks back. She teleports out of Deadpool's bullets at close to point blank range.

She can litter the battlefield with portals and drop an army of demons on them.

Magneto can't evade a blitzing Angel so Magik teleports him back to home base. She does this while not being on the battle field. She is in the Danger room levitating while welding a giant piece of metal to the machine.She evades attacks way more then Storm or Magneto.

She can open small portals and portals as big as cities possibly bigger. She can suck the earth into Limbo. She can see everything that happens on earth from Limbo. She teleports Warlock right behind IM. She can actually attack from a different dimension.

Limbo's magic can turn mimic the Silver Surfer's power cosmic or turn a Phoenix Avatar into a puppet. It can warp the universe. She recreates the x-mansion with a single thought. She can transmute stuff even on earth.She can turn into a being of pure magical energy. She is immune to the transmode virus/ she can counter non magical attacks. Nova Prime and the nova force couldn't counter the same virus. She depowers whole armies. She can use constructs similar to Green lanterns.

She controls and makes the rules of everything in Limbo at her best. She can manipulate time.

You are trying to discredit her when she teleported Magus limbs off. I have no idea why....You also keep saying BFR when there is no BFR rule. She is one of those characters that can attack from a different dimension.

I really don't have Nate scans. I'll try to get back to you on that. You are seriously telling me that Nate can destroy a continent in his sleep with his TK but he can't affect Storm?...ok....

Hold up im looking for said scans.

#54 Posted by DarkRaiden (8222 posts) - - Show Bio

@chiq: So...what I got from that was that she still doesn't have a counter to having her brain shut down and she's still never shown teleporting something as precise or small as an arm or a head off of a person.

#55 Edited by NorrinBoltagonPrime21 (6456 posts) - - Show Bio

No, not even close.

#56 Posted by CheeseSticks (2588 posts) - - Show Bio

Mags and Storm can't beat the X-Men because of Phoenix, Shaman X-Man and Magik

But, they can beat the JL without Supes and WW. The only problem is Flash. MMH can be kill easily because he has more iron than humans in his blood. Plastic Man can get his brain shut off by Mags in a fraction of second. The rest of the JL can be beaten by Storm and Mags. Flash can't knock Mags helmet because he can't go through his shield. Unless he is more powerful than the Phoenix?

#57 Posted by chiq (2022 posts) - - Show Bio

@chiq: So...what I got from that was that she still doesn't have a counter to having her brain shut down and she's still never shown teleporting something as precise or small as an arm or a head off of a person.

I have already shown you her teleporting a material way more durable then Storm or Magneto being sliced in half with her portals. It was a limb. I have also shown you Magik creating portals smaller then a human body. I have shown you a weaker character with the same exact powers tanking an attacks similar to lightning and blood ripping. I have shown you scans of her tanking physical, energy, magical and non magical attacks.

You don't even seem to want to address the fact that Magik can evade those attacks like she did Thor's AOE attack and all these other instances of her evading different kinds of attacks. Not to mention all these different options she has of taking them down.

OK then... Storm can beat all Hell lords w/ her lightning. They all have brains so Storm > then Hell Lords. Storm is greater then anyone w/ a brain. Magik can tele-dismember Magus but to you she can't do that to Storm or Mags. Storm is also immune to Nate's omega level TP and TK...

Magik is a Dormammu level threat while Nate is a Sentry level threat yet they pale in comparison to Magneto or Storm.

Anyway lets just agree to disagree. I am seriously done w/ this thread. have a good day.

#58 Posted by DarkRaiden (8222 posts) - - Show Bio

@chiq said:

@darkraiden said:

@chiq: So...what I got from that was that she still doesn't have a counter to having her brain shut down and she's still never shown teleporting something as precise or small as an arm or a head off of a person.

I have already shown you her teleporting a material way more durable then Storm or Magneto being sliced in half with her portals. It was a limb. I have also shown you Magik creating portals smaller then a human body. I have shown you a weaker character with the same exact powers tanking an attacks similar to lightning and blood ripping. I have shown you scans of her tanking physical, energy, magical and non magical attacks.

You don't even seem to want to address the fact that Magik can evade those attacks like she did Thor's AOE attack and all these other instances of her evading different kinds of attacks. Not to mention all these different options she has of taking them down.

OK then... Storm can beat all Hell lords w/ her lightning. They all have brains so Storm > then Hell Lords. Storm is greater then anyone w/ a brain. Magik can tele-dismember Magus but to you she can't do that to Storm or Mags. Storm is also immune to Nate's omega level TP and TK...

Magik is a Dormammu level threat while Nate is a Sentry level threat yet they pale in comparison to Magneto or Storm.

Anyway lets just agree to disagree. I am seriously done w/ this thread. have a good day.

Ok

1. Magneto's shields literally block teleporting.

2. Durability has nothing to do with it. She has to teleport a body part off of a small human being. The limb she teleported off took A. 1 entire second or so, B. was humungous. She's never done it to a human limb despite her brutality.

3. Weaker doesn't mean less durability, similarities aren't the same as the actual thing. Until Magik survives/counters being paralyzed AND having her brain shutdown in less than a second (she won't be able to teleport btw as she can't even think anymore and will be dead) and bloodripping, then she can't beat them.

4. It's not a tanking matter, it's precision. Hulk tanks tons of things stronger than Storm's lightning, but the precision of it, killed him. Literally.

5. Most Hell Lords don't have human brains.

6. Nate>Magik =>Magneto>Storm imo. But just because you're better/more powerful doesn't mean you win. they still can't beat Mags and/or Storm.

7. Thor's AoE has an undetermined amount of speed and is specifically made for a teleporter to avoid. Unless Magik has shown reflexes to dodge straight up natural lightning coming from nowhere, it's not happening with Storm's lightning.

8. Yes Storm and Mags are essentially immune to TP and Tk of nearly any level.

9. It's a simple thing, Magik's body is mostly human and Mags and Storm can oneshot anyone with even close to humanoid physiology or really a brain that runs on electric impulses and/or iron in their blood.

#59 Edited by chiq (2022 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkraiden said:

Ok

1. Magneto's shields literally block teleporting.

Maybe he has done it with Kurt, but Magik is a different animal and a much more powerful teleporter. Magneto can't stop her porting here. He also does not know where she will pop up...Even if she can't get past his shields(which have yet to be proven) she can teleport him and his shields into a blackhole or different time period.

2. Durability has nothing to do with it. She has to teleport a body part off of a small human being. The limb she teleported off took A. 1 entire second or so, B. was humungous. She's never done it to a human limb despite her brutality.

I seriously think you are lowballing the feat w/ Magus. All she has to do is close the portal the size of the target should not matter as long as you fit in the portal. Anyway here is another scan. She is is either cutting the armored opponent in half or he is being eaten alive by demons on the opposite end of the portal. Either way they are screwed when the portal has them.

4. It's not a tanking matter, it's precision. Hulk tanks tons of things stronger than Storm's lightning, but the precision of it, killed him. Literally.

Is this the Hulk instance you were referring to? If it is you failed to mention that Cable had to guide and help her. Cable isn't in this fight

6. Nate>Magik =>Magneto>Storm imo. But just because you're better/more powerful doesn't mean you win. they still can't beat Mags and/or Storm.

A fully powered Nate and Magik can beat Mags and Storm. You are seriously over hyping Magneto and Storm.

7. Thor's AoE has an undetermined amount of speed and is specifically made for a teleporter to avoid. Unless Magik has shown reflexes to dodge straight up natural lightning coming from nowhere, it's not happening with Storm's lightning.

Storm conjuring lightning- milliseconds pass as the current builds.

Magik teleporting- On this world or any other, I can be here in milliseconds.

Going by those descriptions, by the time the lightning bolt leaves Storm, Magik can be in another planet. In the next scan, if Scott can tag Storm, Magik can surely teleport her since she does not even need to aim ( I have yet to see Magik miss teleporting a target) and has out reacted Scott several times already. I have seen Storm miss some targets with her lightning. Targets far less mobile then Magik.

8. Yes Storm and Mags are essentially immune to TP and Tk of nearly any level.

They are just resistant. I know Storm has beaten Emma but she has been mind controlled before and has been held in place by TK

9. It's a simple thing, Magik's body is mostly human and Mags and Storm can oneshot anyone with even close to humanoid physiology or really a brain that runs on electric impulses and/or iron in their blood.

Magik isn't a regular human. That Hulk feat also needed Cable unless you are talking of another instance. Belasco was human but is now an immortal demon lord just like Magik. He had his insides liquified but he still survived. Magik can also do the same thing and blow up Magneto just like how Mags tore Apoc. Magik only died because she depowered herself and refused to give into her dark side.

I would like to add this:

Panther negated Storms powers using technology. In Limbo Magik controls everything. She can turn Limbo into a fire pit or a paradise or even turn it into an empty dimension. She can freeze and depower them with a thought.

Magnetos em spectrum and Storms weather control will not be of any use if she gets serious since she controls realty over there. Her control defies the laws of physics even for comicbook standards. (she absorbed all of Limbo inside her)

They might have a chance of beating her on earth, they have zero chance of beating her going all out in Limbo.

Both Magik and Nate can go back in time and kill them. They have more options for putting the other 2 down.

#60 Posted by DarkRaiden (8222 posts) - - Show Bio

@chiq:

1. Blocking teleporting is....blocking teleporting. Mags shields do it, Magik would have to prove that she can get past them and not the other way around considering....what she does is teleporting. Also I'm 99.9% sure his shields can't be teleported either or teleporters would just do that. Teleporting him into a blackhole probably wouldn't do much to him and he could wormhole himself back

2. Magus's limb was a giant target, it's not small like Storm and it's not moving as fast as Storm can. That scan of the guy REALLY depends on if she's cutting him in half or not. Demons can be dealt with by Storm, being cut in half would pose a bigger problem, though she'd still have to get it off before being shut down via lightning bolt.

4. She's done it a different time as well, without help, plus she's hit a girl with a lightning bolt and disrupted ALL of her electromagnetic impulses, which means...the thoughts wouldn't even reach her brain, which means no teleporting.

6. Nah, human physiology and bad matchups hurt them.

7. Except Magik would have to know Storm's gonna start with lightning and then somehow activate her teleport to the right location before the lightning hits. Storm's powers are....and I quote "on and off in a thought" and 'faster than conscious thought". Plus Magik has to say "teleport to here" in her mind while Storm just has to (not even consciously) think "Lightning". Storm's attack is hitting first. Also Magik would be BFR'ing herself. And thus losing the fight according to forum rules.

8. She's also cancelled TK, resisted TP that caught Rachel Summers, her just existing and not doing anything hurts Prof. X trying to get in her mind (he's....yeah I'd say he's >>Nate in TP), and she's made lightning fields to scramble TP. It really shouldn't affect her at all outside of PIS.

9. Yeah, she wins in Limbo, I know, but this is Storm and Mags vs. X-men teams and the normal location for X-men teams to fight is NOT limbo by any means.

#61 Posted by Evil Incarnate (4217 posts) - - Show Bio