Magik vs. Scarlet Witch.

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SneakerBOOM

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#1  Edited By SneakerBOOM
Scarlet Witch
Scarlet Witch
Magik
Magik
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jeanroygrant

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#2  Edited By jeanroygrant

Bump

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THUNDERBOLT30

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#3  Edited By THUNDERBOLT30

@SneakerBOOM: Any details on the fight? Location? Morals? Starting distance?

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BuckshotWasHere

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#4  Edited By BuckshotWasHere  Moderator

Magik ports her to hell and takes her magic...apparently.

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jeanroygrant

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#5  Edited By jeanroygrant

Magik

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sandiego008

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#6  Edited By sandiego008

I can't vote on this until I know more details on the fight ... as each of them could win in their own right depending on circumstances. In my made up circumstances SW wins.

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EternalGrandMaster

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This is a good one. I would say it's 50/50. I think scarlet Witch would be able to cancel out Magik's teleporting disc...But Magik herself would still be able to port around her and a cut from the Soul Sword won't be nice for The Scarlet Witch...I'm have to vote Magik simply because her Soul sword owns anything Magical and she's the ruler of Limbo..It would be a good match, Only a Life Force empowered Wanada would be able to defeat her.

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tomdickharry1984

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#8  Edited By tomdickharry1984

Scarlet Witch! Why? "No more Magick!" Poof she gone, the end!

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LordOfAllHumans

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#9  Edited By LordOfAllHumans

@tomdickharry1984 said:

Scarlet Witch! Why? "No more Magick!" Poof she gone, the end!

I wonder if the Soulsword could simply negate the effects of the spell, as they haven't placed any real limit on the level of magic it can screw up. Skill wise Magik should be well above Wanda in the sorcery department, is there anything keeping her from using the same spell Wanda used to get that level power and use it for herself? Magik is too devious and has more knowledge of the future and it's many possibilities than she cares to share. For all we know she did this before as her first effort to get rid of those elder gods, said no more elder gods, forgot about Gaea and the Earth disappeared, so she decided to go after Legion instead...don't mind me I just got off work lol

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MutieLover

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#10  Edited By MutieLover

@LordOfAllHumans:

1) The Soul Sword, is effective against offensive spells and destroying magic constructs. If she could nullify "no more mutants" by waving her sword around, it probably would have happened already.

2) Scarlet Witch is way more versed in magic...than Magik. All of Magik's magic is greatly reduced on the Earth Plane, to the point where she could barely contain Forge. Wanda has been trained

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Killemall

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#11  Edited By Killemall

@MutieLover said:

@LordOfAllHumans:

1) The Soul Sword, is effective against offensive spells and destroying magic constructs. If she could nullify "no more mutants" by waving her sword around, it probably would have happened already.

2) Scarlet Witch is way more versed in magic...than Magik. All of Magik's magic is greatly reduced on the Earth Plane, to the point where she could barely contain Forge. Wanda has been trained

I am with Lord here, i think Magik is more skilled and Scarlet Witch has more potential. Its like Legion vs Charles Xavier in a TP, one has more potential but the other has better experience. Besides morals are going to get in the way of Scarlet Witch too.

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blacharrt

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#12  Edited By blacharrt
@tomdickharry1984 said:

Scarlet Witch! Why? "No more Magick!" Poof she gone, the end!

This wouldn't work for several reasons, one of the main ones being is that Scarlet Witch is not the physical representation of magic in the marvel universe and doesn't wield that kind of power. Although with the life force she is pretty strong.  The other problem is that even if she could pull this feat off which she can't, Magik still has the soulsword, which negates magik both offensive and defensive, the spell wouldn't work on the sword, or magik as long as she is holding it. The soulsword is the physical representation of Magik's uncorrupted soul, so even if that spell did manage to negate the sword's affect which i highly doubt. It's still a sword, and Magik still has her mutant powers. She would still easily kill the scarlet witch by teleporting the sword into her body.  Or she could literally rip wanda apart by teleporting her body parts to various places.  Also Magik is the lord of her own realm, and that realm gives her power, so again it's doubtful scarlet witch is powerful to pull this off.
 
@Killemall: In Age of X, and the X-men Legacy that followed, it's been shown that pretty much Charles can not overpower legion telepathically. Also in their history, that's been shown to be the case, his personalities are just simply too much for Charles to deal with.  I have no doubt that Charles could influence legion but that's about it.  I think if you wiped out the other personalities, and just left the telepathic ones Charles might be able to own legion.
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#13  Edited By Saren

@blacharrt: Actually, Charles did temporarily overpower Moira on the astral plane shortly after her birth. He lost because she messed with his concentration by assuming Moira's face. Although Legion was unconscious at the time, so there's that....

I believe Legion has the raw power to match Charles, but will lose because he has none of the finesse or experience that Charles does.

I also think it's ridiculous to assume that Magik will be untouched by a no-more-mutants-esque spell simply because her soulsword can negate magic......who says the soulsword's limits are open-ended? No limits have been demonstrated to this date, that does not mean no limits could exist.

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LordOfAllHumans

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#14  Edited By LordOfAllHumans

@MutieLover said:

@LordOfAllHumans:

1) The Soul Sword, is effective against offensive spells and destroying magic constructs. If she could nullify "no more mutants" by waving her sword around, it probably would have happened already.

2) Scarlet Witch is way more versed in magic...than Magik. All of Magik's magic is greatly reduced on the Earth Plane, to the point where she could barely contain Forge. Wanda has been trained

So 'No more Magik", is not an offensive spell? It is directed at Magik, but your wrong anyway, it is effective against magic period and it has broken spells placed on people when she wanted it to, so theoretically she should be able to undo, no more mutants, (not by simply waving the sword around, but similar to the way Hope was doing it, one by one) if magic is what is still keeping the powers gone, but then Marvel would have made a "messiah" for nothing,

This is so wrong it's crazy. It doesn't matter how reduced her magic is on Earth, she is far more skilled and trained in the use of magic. Wandas original training only allowed her to use the mental training involved in magic to focus her hexes, she was not using "real magic", until the 90's. Not mention it was pretty clear that Magiks "greatly reduced" magic was a product of her denying her dark soul, as when she accepted it she could use her magic like any other magic user, of course she is more powerful in Limbo because she is a HellLord and that is just part of the deal. Early in New Mutants Magik was always casting spells, one spell was particularly powerful and was only known by a few magicians, they began to limit her much later, as she was too powerful to be on that team. That explains Forge, because PIS/CIS aside she could have just run him through with the sword and been done with it, since it kills magic users. Wanda has been trained by a witch that turns out to be a figment of her imagination for an unknown amount of time, it's hard to say if she had any real training due to that.

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#15  Edited By chiq

Wanda at her best > Archenemy. The Soul Sword had trouble w/ Archenemy (He was powerful for sure beyond sky father level he destroyed a ton of hell lords including Surtur and Nightmare but still below Wanda) The Sword did end Archenemy but only after he was weakened. So there is no way Magik can take Wanda at her best. I think she can kill classic Wanda though...

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Dormammu tells Magik about Archenemy. He tells her they need to join forces.

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Magik can't believe Surtur was so easily destroyed.

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Sutur's Sword extinguished.

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D and Magik have to fight their way out Soul Sword can't kill it.

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SS can't kill archenemy again

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#16  Edited By chiq
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The Soul Sword only kills archenemy in Limbo after fighting of thousands of hell lords and being weakened.

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Saren

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#17  Edited By Saren

@chiq: Pretty sure that was Amanda Sefton and not Illyana.

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#18  Edited By chiq
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@CitizenBane: yup but it was illyana's Soul Sword. and Amanda is a weaker Magik. I was just saying the Soul Sword has Limits...i don't think it can take Wanda at her peak. Illyana tried it on the beyonder as well and it didn't do anything to him either.

HOM wanda>then archenemy. (for me at least)

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blacharrt

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#19  Edited By blacharrt
@CitizenBane: If i recall Magik was one of the few mutants that wasn't touched by that spell "No More Mutants". But that had more to do with Magik (illyana's) connection to Limbo.  I don't think that was fully explain seeing as she was suppose to be dead at the time.  So it doesn't seem ridiculous at all. Secondly that wasn't the Scarlet Witch's power but the power of the Life force which was explained in the Children's Crusade with the Young Avengers.  So that would have been Scarlet Witch Amped by another entity far more powerful than her.
 
the Legion Moira persona was a smart part on Legion's subconscious's side it played to Charle's emotions, which in any battle would count as a win, and not as a pass for the other person due to being distracted.  It was still apart of Legion which would prove my point that beyond the conscious persona's that legion has, is subconscious would be another contender to the problems that Charles would have telepathically. But we agree that given the right circumstance Charle could pull off a win.
 
@chiq: This is Amanda Sefton as Magik whom is not as Strong and Illyana as Magik, but she could pull of the same feats.  Amanda happens to have Illyana's soulsword.
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#20  Edited By chiq

@blacharrt: yup. Amanda is the weaker magik. (Belasco called Amanda the pretender and banished her from Limbo) But that's still Illyana's Soul Sword that she is using. I just wanted to show the sword while being one of the most powerful magical artifacts in Marvel, still has limits.

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#21  Edited By Saren

@blacharrt: Magik not being affected by NMM had nothing to do with her connection to Limbo or anything of the sort. It was just the luck of the draw, the same reason Cyclops and Wolverine still have their powers. Legion was also supposed to be dead at the time, he was unaffected by NMM. Again, luck of the draw.

Not saying it doesn't count as a win, but it doesn't represent proof that Legion is above Xavier when it comes to telepathy. In a straight fight with zero distractions, Legion's telepathy would not defeat Xavier's. That was my point.

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LordOfAllHumans

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#22  Edited By LordOfAllHumans

@chiq said:

Wanda at her best > Archenemy. The Soul Sword had trouble w/ Archenemy (He was powerful for sure beyond sky father level he destroyed a ton of hell lords including Surtur and Nightmare but still below Wanda) The Sword did end Archenemy but only after he was weakened. So there is no way Magik can take Wanda at her best. I think she can kill classic Wanda though...

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Dormammu tells Magik about Archenemy. He tells her they need to join forces.

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Magik can't believe Surtur was so easily destroyed.

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Sutur's Sword extinguished.

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D and Magik have to fight their way out Soul Sword can't kill it.

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SS can't kill archenemy again

in all fairness Amanda and nobody else should really be able to access the full power of the sword. Amanda as Magik had no qualms about using magic and didn't worry about the costs the way Illyana did and it didn't allow her to tap any more power than was available to her before, it really only bestowed regency and tied her to Limbo, unlike Illyana who was unconsciously creating a witch that kidnapped and tried to eat her friends and was powerful enough to negate Illyanas magic in Limbo. Amanda is also a practitioner of the winding way, which randomly causes your powers to fluctuate and even with the sword she wasn't the head of it, her mother was with several others head of Amanda as Margali was way more powerful than daughter even before she killed every magician ahead of her on that path.

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#23  Edited By chiq

@LordOfAllHumans said:

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@chiq said:

Wanda at her best > Archenemy. The Soul Sword had trouble w/ Archenemy (He was powerful for sure beyond sky father level he destroyed a ton of hell lords including Surtur and Nightmare but still below Wanda) The Sword did end Archenemy but only after he was weakened. So there is no way Magik can take Wanda at her best. I think she can kill classic Wanda though...

Dormammu tells Magik about Archenemy. He tells her they need to join forces.

Magik can't believe Surtur was so easily destroyed.

Sutur's Sword extinguished.

D and Magik have to fight their way out Soul Sword can't kill it.

SS can't kill archenemy again

in all fairness Amanda and nobody else should really be able to access the full power of the sword. Amanda as Magik had no qualms about using magic and didn't worry about the costs the way Illyana did and it didn't allow her to tap any more power than was available to her before, it really only bestowed regency and tied her to Limbo, unlike Illyana who was unconsciously creating a witch that kidnapped and tried to eat her friends and was powerful enough to negate Illyanas magic in Limbo. Amanda is also a practitioner of the winding way, which randomly causes your powers to fluctuate and even with the sword she wasn't the head of it, her mother was with several others head of Amanda as Margali was way more powerful than daughter even before she killed every magician ahead of her on that path.

Well yes I agree i read somewere that the Soul Sword is the most powerful in the hands of the original ( since it's Illyana's soul after all) No one is saying that Amanda is more powerful the Illyana. Amanda couldn't even get into Limbo when Illyana sealed it. Amanda used the name Magik cause it brought a lot of fear and respect in the splinter realms. She is Dick Grayson wearing the Bat suit.

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#24  Edited By LordOfAllHumans

@chiq said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@chiq said:

Wanda at her best > Archenemy. The Soul Sword had trouble w/ Archenemy (He was powerful for sure beyond sky father level he destroyed a ton of hell lords including Surtur and Nightmare but still below Wanda) The Sword did end Archenemy but only after he was weakened. So there is no way Magik can take Wanda at her best. I think she can kill classic Wanda though...

No Caption Provided

Dormammu tells Magik about Archenemy. He tells her they need to join forces.

No Caption Provided

Magik can't believe Surtur was so easily destroyed.

No Caption Provided

Sutur's Sword extinguished.

No Caption Provided

D and Magik have to fight their way out Soul Sword can't kill it.

No Caption Provided

SS can't kill archenemy again

in all fairness Amanda and nobody else should really be able to access the full power of the sword. Amanda as Magik had no qualms about using magic and didn't worry about the costs the way Illyana did and it didn't allow her to tap any more power than was available to her before, it really only bestowed regency and tied her to Limbo, unlike Illyana who was unconsciously creating a witch that kidnapped and tried to eat her friends and was powerful enough to negate Illyanas magic in Limbo. Amanda is also a practitioner of the winding way, which randomly causes your powers to fluctuate and even with the sword she wasn't the head of it, her mother was with several others head of Amanda as Margali was way more powerful than daughter even before she killed every magician ahead of her on that path.

Well yes I agree i read somewere that the Soul Sword is the most powerful in the hands of the original ( since it's Illyana's soul after all) No one is saying that Amanda is more powerful the Illyana. Amanda couldn't even get into Limbo when Illyana sealed it.

I know your not saying Amanda is more powerful, I'm saying that her not being able to do something with an artifact is not proof that it can't be done by somebody that has unrestricted access to it.

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chiq

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#25  Edited By chiq

@LordOfAllHumans: well, if you put it that way...I obviously can't say that I have seen Illyana stab hom wanda with the sword and fail to kill her.

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#26  Edited By blacharrt
@CitizenBane: For the most part we agree on Charles.  As for magic, there is no clear reason as to why she actually came back, it had something to do with her strong ties with limbo that she was resurrected.  Belasco stated he could sense magik (illyana) after HOM, but could not find her.  In Inferno, she was hiding from Belasco, and helped the New x-men only to get her soulgems back. So it's really unclear where exactly she was this whole time and if she was infact dead.
 

@chiq

: It's untrue that Amanda was not boosted due to her wielding the soulsword, the Soulsword besides being part of Illyana's soul is also the physical representation of the rulers of Limbo.  Which automatically blesses the ruler with the Eldritch Armor that both magik's have been seen to sport, this also gives the ruler of Limbo not only added strength but access to magical resistence among other abilities. Another ability the ruler of limbo gets is the ability to use the Soulsword as means of teleportation using limbo as a nexus point.
 
Wanda is above Archenemy? that is highly unlikely, Wanda with the Life Force power affected one realm. It took Several Realm to defeat Archenemy, and that was after it was drastically weakened.  Wanda's reality warp also didn't seem to affect space either, so it's questionable if it actually affected the entirety of the Marvel Universe and not just Earth, with the life force maybe yes (she's that powerful), but regular Wanda is not that powerful.  The Soulsword was able to completely and Literally rip the magic out of Heka-Nut who was on Par with the Sorcerer Supreme Ashake. which had stripped him of his magical power, and that was with one stab in the Mystic Arcana series. Wanda no matter how powerful she was, without the life force would have the same result. She would have to completely rely on her mutant power at that point, which Magik could completely teleport back at her.
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venomoushatred1001

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@Buckshot said:

Magik ports her to hell and takes her magic...apparently.

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#28  Edited By Redberry

Scarlet Witch wins. She already owns a powered-up Magik. Black Widow also beats the snot out of Magik while in Hell. I think Scarlet Witch can handle Magik just fine.

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#29  Edited By spekqj

@Redberry: I think the fight between Magik and Scarlet Witch has to do more with the connection between Scarlet Witch and Phoenix Force than with their pure powers and abilities. It seems like Scarlet Witch has something that can repel or hurt PF effectively. And the one with Black Widow, we all know that is a good example of PIS that Marvel pulls out to glorify members of the Avengers from the movie. Also, at the end of the fight, Magik said that she was just teasing her.

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#30  Edited By boob

 Holding off a God, and two great warriors. 
 Holding off a God, and two great warriors. 

 Though no where near Wanda's power, Empath was still defeated.
 Though no where near Wanda's power, Empath was still defeated.

 She was not in Limbo, and it still took him out.
 She was not in Limbo, and it still took him out.

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And yet Charles was able to get into Wanda's mind and make her return reality.       
And yet Charles was able to get into Wanda's mind and make her return reality.       
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homhorror

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Scarlet Witch

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copete

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Magik!

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LaryKing

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Magik Cuberstomp

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Hyperlight

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im pretty sure magik is a more practiced magician but Wanda has more overall potential and power due to the source of it all

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ivan_jimenez86

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Scarlet Witch possess more raw powers than Magik, but Illyna would win in the end. Her soul sword would automatically cancels Wanda's magical attacks, and she could teleport her sword through a portal right into the back or through Wanda's heart for the killing blow.

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guled120

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#36  Edited By guled120

Wanda ftw. She is even more powerful than Franklin. Magik pisses Wanda off by teleporting her to Limbo and saying all this things about how she is the most powerful one in her realm, and then Wanda gets mad after she is thrown around and becomes ....BOOOM... HOM Wanda, then Magik runs for her life after Limbo is distroyed with a matter of seconds.

Xoxo~::/A.K.A./God~?~Serena?!!!!!!!!.......???????

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copete

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Magik kills her

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dami24434

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#38 dami24434  Online

Magik stomps overrated wanda.

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AbelHsu

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mr-luxcipher

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Magik.

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ichaotic

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Wanda, without trying.

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deactivated-5d28a8d99844a

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Wanda one shots her like she did in the past even when Magik was amped with the Phoenix force, even Spiderman and Black Widow gave her a run for her money

Wanda is a better sorceress, and has more experience adding her powers to alter reality.

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Soratoumiga

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Wanda stomps, even amped, Magik was bodied by Wanda.

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LordOfAllHumans

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@soratoumiga: I'm not saying who wins but that was PIS especially since Wanda's powers stopped having any effect on them the more Phoenix they got.

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Supermanthor

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Wanda stomps, even amped, Magik was bodied by Wanda.

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Soratoumiga

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@lordofallhumans: It wasn't PIS, it was consistent throughout the storyline, she was able to harm the Phoenix Five, and was the only one capable of doing that, even when some of them lost their portion of the Phoenix Force. She was the main reason they defeated the full Phoenix Force Cyclops in the end, it was stated right on-panel that her magic was the only thing harming him.

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deactivated-5d59ee082aecf

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Yea if a PF magik lost then I'll say wanda

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LordOfAllHumans

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@soratoumiga: it wasn't consistent at all and barely worked on Namor without knocking her out while he was still conscious. The main reason the Phoenix was defeated was the reason it usually is, Jean told him to let it go.

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Soratoumiga

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#50  Edited By Soratoumiga

@lordofallhumans: It worked on both Namor and Magik, and when Hope fought Cyclops with more than 1/5 of Phoenix Force, she copied Wanda's powers and literally one-shot him. In the end, Dark Phoenix Cyclops was pretty even with Hope and Wanda in the battle, until Jean said that to him, so he got distracted and then stomped. I mean, even the storyline itself explains how her magic can hurt the hosts of the Phoenix Force (which even makes sense, since she, previous to AvX was able to expell Phoenix Force from its hosts), and was consistent through the storyline.