Magik vs Ghost Rider

Round 1: Johhny Blaze vs Magik in New York city (No Zarathos)

Round 2: Zarathos vs Magik in Limbo

Round 3: Zarathos and Noble Kale vs Magik with 1/5 Phoenix force in limbo

No summoning other spirits of vengeance

Magik can not teleport them to limbo in round 1

Magik wins

Zarathos

Magik beats Hell lords for a living though. She overpowers them.

@chiq: ..... So does Zarathos

@chiq: Out of curiosity which hell lords she has fought before.

Dormammu (In Limbo) Belasco (In Limbo) Mephisto (in his realm).

edit- I know Dromy isn't technically a Hell Lord. He does hang around them though.

Do you mean in the same comic where Cyclops hurt him and written by the same person who already made Dormy lost to the New Avengers, as well be totally OOC? Yeah, such a feat.....

Yeah and in current Inferno Magik is talking on all the X-men, some Avengers, some top mages and she beat Doctor Strange again. She displays this power level under different writers and time periods.

@chiq: I'm not questioning Magik's power, but Dormammu's own during said comic( Given his history with Bendis).

Besides finding laughable that you think doing all this shows a display of power close to Dormammu....Who actually conquered, killed and destoyed all the beings and things on Earth in a dark future during an issue of Amazing Spider-Man(This should include Magik as well).

@chiq: Sorry to bother, but can you tell me what book that scan is from please.. It looks interesting :)

@kokemabb200: X-Infernus.

and Limbo warped the entire Universe, and it's been called the gateway to the omniverse but I'm not saying Magik is a universal threat, I'm not even saying she's more powerful then Dormammu. She is a Hell lord who beat him, twice. Deal with it. Characters get beaten. It happened in Limbo where people like the Goblin Queen call her a god.

It does count as a feat since she has beaten other powerful opponents like Doctor Strange, Legion, Juggernaut, Mephisto, etc... This isn't firelord vs spiderman

@chiq: And Dormammu blowed up the substance of the manifestation of the very Multiverse..... So what? I'm not saying he's Multiversal.

''She is a Hell lord who beat him, twice. Deal with it.''

Sure, this only works if you're so blind to see the whole picture as said fight happened during the writing of someone who already proved to have a lower vision of the character.

I know characters get beaten, however, this doesn't make it reliable( I guess if Captain America beat Thor would be fine in your logic too). It also happened during the writing of Bendis and the same has a history of making any beings related to Strange becoming a lot weaker than usual.

None of this opponents are as powerful as Dormammu or already lost to him, so it doesn't.

Captain America beating Thor isn't the same as Magik in Limbo beating Dormammu.

@chiq: I know.

They're different characters :)

Anyway, I don't have a problem with Magik beating Dormammu and I agree she's very underrated, however, when said fight took place under Bendis then I have my doubts.

It's better we agree to disagree though.

Magik in all rounds.

Zarathos all Rounds. no competition really.

Yeah, true but you gotta admit Bendis really gimped a lot of characters and or made other characters more powerful than they were for the sake of the story (not that it helped). Magik is very powerful but had consistently been not quite as powerful as she was shown here. Beating Dr Strange in limbo when she has the soul sword where as he is a shell of his former self written by Bendis is fine... but Dormammu who unlike Strange really had no reason to be weaker? That's really off, but then again having Cyclops hurt him (even if only the tiniest amount)... it already jumped the track. So those "feats" alone aren't as much as you suggest.

That being said (back on topic) Magik can probably take this fight. :)

@devilsmaydie: Even more when Bendis wrote Robbins(The Hood) amped by the power of Dormammu ANDthe Dark Dimension struggling with the New Avengers.

It's pretty clear his point of view about Dormy.

@laylah: Son of Satan also took down Dormy possessing Kale of the Witches with little issue by himself. Not a Bendis comic, but Dormammu is pretty low level these days lol.

@sirfizzwhizz: You're talking about Marvel Zombies, right? Well....He didn't technically took her down( Daimon even admitted doing nothing):

But I don't believe Daimon didn't had any part on it and it's not a big deal anyway( Topaz did the same thing before). Heck, Daimon is the best there is about this things too, however, losing and struggling against a bunch of street-level characters is only during Bendis.

This are his only low feats though, in fact, Dormammu was the only one able to survive the mystical bullet or not even feel it( Satana, Morgana, Jericho and Daimon himself weren't able to accomplish such feat) and turn all the beings on Earth into Mindless Ones.

@laylah: Is all that recent though? I have not heard much of Dormammu since The hood.

@sirfizzwhizz: Yes.

It was during one series based on the show ''Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.''

This is 616 then right?

@sirfizzwhizz: Here:

This is what the bullet did with Daimon and the others:

Gallery

But against Dormammu:

Gallery

I'm just going to show the beggining of the infection caused by Dormammu though( I can't post so many scans):

Yes.

It's basedon the show, but not in the same universe.

@laylah: Interesting.

Anyway I wonder how that bullet would have work on Zarathos, or even say Mephisto. While Santana, and Daimen are strong, they always seem less in feats overall raw power to the just mention. Yes Hellstrom is a Hell Lord (was a hell lord?) and had great abilities against other supernatural foes, but again non supernatural foes he is pretty high mid tier at best. Zarathos did this recently.

Gallery

Thats Strange, Thor, Sanatana, and Man thing with many others. So Im not sold on Magik competing with him for this thread.

@sirfizzwhizz: I don't know if Daimon is still a Hell-Lord, but I'm sure Satana continues to be one.

Well....This is the best feat Dormammu has over three years, so it's something good to him( Getting beat by a group of C-List heroes is quite bad).

@laylah: Interesting.

Anyway I wonder how that bullet would have work on Zarathos, or even say Mephisto. While Santana, and Daimen are strong, they always seem less in feats overall raw power to the just mention. Yes Hellstrom is a Hell Lord (was a hell lord?) and had great abilities against other supernatural foes, but again non supernatural foes he is pretty high mid tier at best. Zarathos did this recently.

Gallery

Thats Strange, Thor, Sanatana, and Man thing with many others. So Im not sold on Magik competing with him for this thread.

So meta

I agree. They really should have him centered around a huge event again sometime. Hell for one of the most powerful beings, he plays no role in Secrete Wars that involves the Marvel Multiverse.

Even Mephisto played roles in the Secrete Wars, and Infinity Gauntlet. sigh.

@sirfizzwhizz: Marvel stopped caring a lot about Dormammu after the 90s.

The only ones who ever gave him respect was Steve Ditko and Englehart....Mostly because Dormy is not part of their beloved mainstream characters.

He was famous during the 60s and 70s though, in fact, Dormammu was worshipped by the Beatniks.

@sirfizzwhizz: The cannonity of the Uncanny Avengers feat your mentioned is questionable though friend. While I suppose you could say majority of the Uncanny Avengers takes place in the canon universe, that was the mutant utopia created by the twins. That entire story is wiped out clean when Kang informs Thor and Earth heroes about the coming of Exitar, and instead of the heroes losing the said battle which is what gave birth to the said reality, heroes with the enchanted Axe of Thor manage to slay Exitar making it such that the reality into question never came to be.

It's weird and very complicated. I suppose that was the intend of Rick Remender to make the story not so linear.

@claymore1998: then it falls into the whole realm of King Thor, Secrete Wars, or House of M. It still happen even if the events were erased.

@sirfizzwhizz: The Reigning (King Thor's story) as well as House of M stories are seen as non canon though. They have their own separate reality names.

I am unsure what you mean by Secret Wars though.

@claymore1998: they are canon for feats. There is no reason not to use them as such. Even The Heroes Reborn Earth with the onslaught crap is canon feats.

The fact is people wanting to disregard that is more of a cop out technicality that makes no real sense to try and pull. These characters are 616, of that canon, and GR stomped them. It's not a What If title, Zombie Verse, or Ultimate Marvel universe. It's 616 event that did not happen with 616 characters.

@sirfizzwhizz: oh okay that's how we see things in battle forum? Thank you, sorry I am actually pretty new to battle forum so I was u sure how they saw things. While I can understand the argument of considering it non canon, if it is normally commonplace to consider them as a part of continuity in battle forum then there isn't much I can say in that regards, can I friend?

Well sorry to have bothered you then friend though hehe conversation like these is where you get to learn battle forum conventions that is normally pretty new to new users, specially considering things seem to be different in other forums. KMC for one normally does not consider these part story which was created knowing they will be wiped clean as a part of continuity. The reason people are ardent about a feat being cannon, as far as KMC is concerned is, if the said feat can be disregarded writers tends to get a lot more autonomy on what they can write. Furthermore, stories that are to be wiped clean are normally paid lot less heed by the editors.

But the convention in comic vine is different from what you mentioned so that's something new I learned. Thank you for that friend and as always, while short, it was a pleasure conversing with you ^_^

@claymore1998: it's not a rule on the battle forum, and if you feel that way, that is your opinion. The question of canon or notnis not set in stone, just my reasoning on it. Like Spider Man in One More Day. We do not think to disregard his feats prior to Mephisto changing time and events you know what I mean?

I'm just defending my reasons why it counts.

Zarathos

@sirfizzwhizz: oh okay sorry I misunderstood then. If that's your reasoning that's not bad but you have to consider there are arguments to the contrary. That is why I mentioned the cannonity of the said feat can be questioned.

That aside Magik should still be more powerful so that does not really affect the debate at hand.

@claymore1998: anyway let's discuss why you think Magic is more powerful.

@sirfizzwhizz: on earth Magik might not be more powerful than Ghost Rider but she has her soul sword, a sword made up of demonic energies that disrupts magic. A weapon of this nature has always been akin to Ghost Rider's kryptonite. Take for example Wolverine In Hell story arc where Hellverine nearly killed the Ghost Rider. Another similar example would be Shadowland where the said demonic monster defeated Ghost Rider rather casually.

That would give Magik a hefty advantage, at least in my opinion.

In limbo though it's rather straight forward. Going all the way back to Archenemy story arc Magik in limbo has been portrayed more powerful than guys like Surtur, Dormammu and Mephisto. Not to mention her Magik negation powers, her ability to absorb entire dimension of limbo into herself as a major boost to her powers etc would give her a huge advantage.

Ghost Rider is unfortunate enough here to fight someone whose standard weapon consists of his versatility. Ghost rider has been vulnerable to dark magic something Magik has in her arsenal.

That's my reasoning. What would you think of this though friend, is your opinion different from mine?

@claymore1998: ok, I will side with Magik. She sounds like the perfect counter to Ghost Rider actually.

Congrats lol

@sirfizzwhizz: Thank you, it's always fun when we can come to a consensus ^_^

Sorry for the late reply. The Soul Sword is Magik's trump card in this fight. It destroys all spells and magical beings.

@claymore1998: how do you like comicvine by the way? Inward on KMC for a bit, but really did not enjoy it as much. Tourneys were too hard to do as well.

@sirfizzwhizz: I like comic vine though I mostly post on off topic section and general discussion. A bit new to the battle forum, my first experience wasn't very great. Few people were pretty mean to me but these days people seem happy. Hehe also its been more than a week since anyone called me a troll or asked me to go read a comics first, a definite improvement hehe =)

@claymore1998: well when on battle forums it's best to for thick skin, or let it wash off. It's as competitive here as on KMC Battle Forums, only here there is more people working for a common goal of discussion most of the time. People with over 5000 post counts are here to debate rather insult.

Good luck on the battle forums.

@sirfizzwhizz: thank you though I have never actually debated on KMC, I would just lurk in the shadows read various debates. It's pretty fun that way =)

And thank you for the tips, I appreciate it =)

It's cool:) agree to disagree.