Magic vs Power

who will win the battle of magic vs power?all morals off,  battle takes place in a deserted city with the same conditions in the photo below. both teams start off at different ends of the city, 2km apart. 
rules
no prep, 
for team magic, no flying higher than the buildings, no teleporting opponents out of the battlefield, no sleep spells. 
 
battle is 1 on 1 match, team lineup order is(team magic:1st enchantress, 2nd  morgaine le fey, 3rd circe, 4th dr strange and 5th loki ) and (team power: 1st the thing, 2nd colossus,3rd grundy, 4th Abomination, 5th  juggernaut, 6th doomsday, 7th hulk and 8th superman).
 
battle starts with the 1st member on each team- enchantress vs the thing. if enchantress or the thing is defeated, the next team member steps up to the arena, no rest for the winner. both players start off again at the starting location of their team. this will continue until either team is wiped out. win by KO or death. where will be gauntlet stop at? who will be the remaining survivors for the winning team?

Dope!
Crazy!
Blast!
Alright!
Sweet!
SShowtime!
SSSpite!!!

Magic stomps here. They have too many advantages.

@Chibio said:

Dope! Crazy! Blast! Alright! Sweet! SShowtime! SSSpite!!!

I see the correlation between the words there, lol.

IDK Circe, but if she is even close to Strange's league, she stomps as much as others.

IDK Circe, but if she is even close to Strange's league, she stomps as much as others.

is that classic strange? team magic

@czarny_samael666 said:

IDK Circe, but if she is even close to Strange's league, she stomps as much as others.

Circe, the powerful sorceress, Goddess, and nemesis of Wonder Woman.

That is the quick summary I got when I looked on her page.

is that classic strange? team magic

@chiq said:

is that classic strange? team magic

he has access to all his powers

If it's classic Strange, team power loses instantly and completely. 
Not classic Strange, team power loses very quickly and completely. 
Either way, magic owns this fight.

Magic wins quite convincingly. Too great a range of powers here. Realistically there isn't a way the "power" team with little more than brute strength can even hurt them. All any of them have to do is become intangible.

@czarny_samael666 said:

IDK Circe, but if she is even close to Strange's league, she stomps as much as others.

@HBKTimHBK said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

IDK Circe, but if she is even close to Strange's league, she stomps as much as others.

Circe, the powerful sorceress, Goddess, and nemesis of Wonder Woman.

That is the quick summary I got when I looked on her page.

@tron_bonne said:

@kcaz said:

@chiq said:

is that classic strange? team magic

he has access to all his powers

If that's the case, then he is way above Circe

Depends on depiction. In War of the God's it took a spell of the combined power of Dr Fate, Phantom Stranger, Spectre, and Zatanna (there were others around but I can't recall who) focused through Geo-Force and Wonder Woman to break Circe's spell. She has been shown to be one of the largest threats in DCU on a few occasions but obviously has also jobbed to WW more than once.

If this is Classic Strange then he alone stomps. Easy too.

Team Strange ftw.

depowering the juggernaut in the op was good thinking otherwise team two would of had it.

Team Magic... too versatile, too fast, too smart, and too powerful.

added in some new members for team power to give them a bit more of a fighting chance

Are you serious ? Team power wins with ridiculous ease.

@Boobster said:

Are you serious ? Team power wins with ridiculous ease.

it at least has a fighting chance now that he's doubled the team size 6 hrs ago (for the most part the most heavy, heavy hitter were the additions).

Why the fookalicious isn't Loki on team magic? He's more powerful than Strange.

I still dont see what they are going to do to Juggy if BFR is not allowed

@Killemall said:

I still dont see what they are going to do to Juggy if BFR is not allowed

Did you not notice Juggernaught is depowered in the OP.

It says depowered?? i though it says without forcefield, that doesnt make a difference because he still has cyttorak power and can increase his strength .. forcefield are just meant to protect him from feeling pain.

Why the fookalicious isn't Loki on team magic? He's more powerful than Strange.

@kcaz said:

@chiq said:

is that classic strange? team magic

he has access to all his powers

OMG why this was already a win for the magic users but making this the most poweful version of Strange...is just over kill...

@Killemall said:

It says depowered?? i though it says without forcefield, that doesnt make a difference because he still has cyttorak power and can increase his strength .. forcefield are just meant to protect him from feeling pain.

no that was the depowered I meant. It does mean there are plenty of ways he can be harmed by team magic.and what good is just strength against a team who every member can just become intangible and therefore not hit. Not to mention that all of them can draw on his same source of power for a force field (immovable object unstoppable force)

@Killemall said:

I still dont see what they are going to do to Juggy if BFR is not allowed

Did you not notice Juggernaught is depowered in the OP.

@kcaz said:

@beatboks1 said:

@Killemall said:

I still dont see what they are going to do to Juggy if BFR is not allowed

Did you not notice Juggernaught is depowered in the OP.

from what i know, the force field protects him from physical attacks like punches and since team 1 are using magic attacks, it doesn't makes much difference.

No it protects him from all typed of attacks. It also absorbs all inertia (sort of like Flash speed steal). It makes a huge difference. It's part of what makes him unstoppable. Even if it did only protect from physical attacks magic as just as capable of making them. You've never seen magic create a physical attack???

@kcaz said:

@beatboks1 said:

@Killemall said:

I still dont see what they are going to do to Juggy if BFR is not allowed

Did you not notice Juggernaught is depowered in the OP.

from what i know, the force field protects him from physical attacks like punches and since team 1 are using magic attacks, it doesn't makes much difference.

No it protects him from all typed of attacks. It also absorbs all inertia (sort of like Flash speed steal). It makes a huge difference. It's part of what makes him unstoppable. Even if it did only protect from physical attacks magic as just as capable of making them. You've never seen magic create a physical attack???

Magic stomps

@beatboks1 said:

@Killemall said:

It says depowered?? i though it says without forcefield, that doesnt make a difference because he still has cyttorak power and can increase his strength .. forcefield are just meant to protect him from feeling pain.

no that was the depowered I meant. It does mean there are plenty of ways he can be harmed by team magic.and what good is just strength against a team who every member can just become intangible and therefore not hit. Not to mention that all of them can draw on his same source of power for a force field (immovable object unstoppable force)

how does that explain how team is even going to defeat juggy??? Strength is good because they CANT do anything to him, therefore its stalemate at best.

@kcaz said:

@beatboks1 said:

@Killemall said:

I still dont see what they are going to do to Juggy if BFR is not allowed

Did you not notice Juggernaught is depowered in the OP.

from what i know, the force field protects him from physical attacks like punches and since team 1 are using magic attacks, it doesn't makes much difference.

this is actually true, all the forcefeild does is protect him from pain, however without forcefield juggy can still withstand and HEAL from any attack instantly. i still dont see how team is gonna put juggy down

Physical attacks aren't limited to just dumping rocks.Every attack you just mentioned of Circe has a physical attack. She has made herself the physical equal of WW and fought her on that level. Dr Fate for example has made the very Earth become an army against his foe. The sands each formed a physical being with immense strength and physical power. Nabu used his magic to Make his host Kent Nelson the physical equal of Superman in strength and invulnerability. Strange and other Marvel mystics have called on the power of Cyttorak and could create the very force field that Juggy had as a striking force against him.

I still dont see what they are going to do to Juggy if BFR is not allowed

@Killemall said:

@beatboks1 said:

@Killemall said:

It says depowered?? i though it says without forcefield, that doesnt make a difference because he still has cyttorak power and can increase his strength .. forcefield are just meant to protect him from feeling pain.

no that was the depowered I meant. It does mean there are plenty of ways he can be harmed by team magic.and what good is just strength against a team who every member can just become intangible and therefore not hit. Not to mention that all of them can draw on his same source of power for a force field (immovable object unstoppable force)

how does that explain how team is even going to defeat juggy??? Strength is good because they CANT do anything to him, therefore its stalemate at best.

Without the FF they could simply mystically remove the helmet. Any of them is than capable of TP and subdue him. That's how they can defeat him.

@kcaz said:

@Killemall said:

I still dont see what they are going to do to Juggy if BFR is not allowed

well circe could always turn him into something else like she always does to others or revive several dead characters to her side of the field, or steal juggy's abilities and make it her own, or turn juggy to stone by bringing medusa to the field, or alter his mind.

juggy's body is prevented from matter manipulation from the cyttorak energy.

@beatboks1 said:

@Killemall said:

@beatboks1 said:

@Killemall said:

It says depowered?? i though it says without forcefield, that doesnt make a difference because he still has cyttorak power and can increase his strength .. forcefield are just meant to protect him from feeling pain.

no that was the depowered I meant. It does mean there are plenty of ways he can be harmed by team magic.and what good is just strength against a team who every member can just become intangible and therefore not hit. Not to mention that all of them can draw on his same source of power for a force field (immovable object unstoppable force)

how does that explain how team is even going to defeat juggy??? Strength is good because they CANT do anything to him, therefore its stalemate at best.

Without the FF they could simply mystically remove the helmet. Any of them is than capable of TP and subdue him. That's how they can defeat him.

Later X-men comics he was generating his helmet back with ease, so i dont think that would work. besides when as anyone MYSTICALLY removed his helmet, after all he's protected by a very powerful entity who has way more magic power anyone here.

@Killemall said:

@kcaz said:

@Killemall said:

I still dont see what they are going to do to Juggy if BFR is not allowed

well circe could always turn him into something else like she always does to others or revive several dead characters to her side of the field, or steal juggy's abilities and make it her own, or turn juggy to stone by bringing medusa to the field, or alter his mind.

juggy's body is prevented from matter manipulation from the cyttorak energy.

@beatboks1 said:

@Killemall said:

@beatboks1 said:

@Killemall said:

It says depowered?? i though it says without forcefield, that doesnt make a difference because he still has cyttorak power and can increase his strength .. forcefield are just meant to protect him from feeling pain.

no that was the depowered I meant. It does mean there are plenty of ways he can be harmed by team magic.and what good is just strength against a team who every member can just become intangible and therefore not hit. Not to mention that all of them can draw on his same source of power for a force field (immovable object unstoppable force)

how does that explain how team is even going to defeat juggy??? Strength is good because they CANT do anything to him, therefore its stalemate at best.

Without the FF they could simply mystically remove the helmet. Any of them is than capable of TP and subdue him. That's how they can defeat him.

Later X-men comics he was generating his helmet back with ease, so i dont think that would work. besides when as anyone MYSTICALLY removed his helmet, after all he's protected by a very powerful entity who has way more magic power anyone here.

Which any of the Marvel mystics can call upon for power to equal !!

Physical attacks aren't limited to just dumping rocks.Every attack you just mentioned of Circe has a physical attack. She has made herself the physical equal of WW and fought her on that level. Dr Fate for example has made the very Earth become an army against his foe. The sands each formed a physical being with immense strength and physical power. Nabu used his magic to Make his host Kent Nelson the physical equal of Superman in strength and invulnerability. Strange and other Marvel mystics have called on the power of Cyttorak and could create the very force field that Juggy had as a striking force against him.

@beatboks1 said:

@Killemall said:

Later X-men comics he was generating his helmet back with ease, so i dont think that would work. besides when as anyone MYSTICALLY removed his helmet, after all he's protected by a very powerful entity who has way more magic power anyone here.

Which any of the Marvel mystics can call upon for power to equal !!

This is not true, when has anyone shown the ability to call upon the power of cyttorak? any issue or scans??

@Killemall said:

@beatboks1 said:

@Killemall said:

Later X-men comics he was generating his helmet back with ease, so i dont think that would work. besides when as anyone MYSTICALLY removed his helmet, after all he's protected by a very powerful entity who has way more magic power anyone here.

Which any of the Marvel mystics can call upon for power to equal !!

This is not true, when has anyone shown the ability to call upon the power of cyttorak? any issue or scans??

Dormammu. Zom. But those are above pussies in the magic team.

@Boobster said:

@Killemall said:

@beatboks1 said:

@Killemall said:

Later X-men comics he was generating his helmet back with ease, so i dont think that would work. besides when as anyone MYSTICALLY removed his helmet, after all he's protected by a very powerful entity who has way more magic power anyone here.

Which any of the Marvel mystics can call upon for power to equal !!

This is not true, when has anyone shown the ability to call upon the power of cyttorak? any issue or scans??

Dormammu. Zom. But those are above pussies in the magic team.

Dormammu and Zom ?? not the question was has anyone shown to call upon the ability of cyttorak? i dont think you are saying Dormammu or Zom have ?? have they? why would they even need big C's powers in the first place.

@Killemall said:

@Boobster said:

@Killemall said:

@beatboks1 said:

@Killemall said:

Later X-men comics he was generating his helmet back with ease, so i dont think that would work. besides when as anyone MYSTICALLY removed his helmet, after all he's protected by a very powerful entity who has way more magic power anyone here.

Which any of the Marvel mystics can call upon for power to equal !!

This is not true, when has anyone shown the ability to call upon the power of cyttorak? any issue or scans??

Dormammu. Zom. But those are above pussies in the magic team.

Dormammu and Zom ?? not the question was has anyone shown to call upon the ability of cyttorak? i dont think you are saying Dormammu or Zom have ?? have they? why would they even need big C's powers in the first place.

Both Strange and Morgaine Le fey have called on the bands of Cyttorak or invoked his power several times. With that they could bind Juggy (especially if both cast the spell). Even if it's only for a while until they take the rest. Then with every one of them invoking that power. Or if in casting such a spell they invoke not just Cyttorak but also Hoggoth, Oshtur, Seraphim, Cthon , Gaia; Ikonn, Dormammu , Satannish and all the DCU lords of magic. It's not like there is only one of them. They simply cast a spell so that they can't be touched by the powers (intangibility) then spend as long as they like building a spell that crushes all calling on as many deities as required. Not to mention that classic Strange has beaten those who've called on Cyttorak. As for the Pussies how is it classic strange has matched both, and having done so can therefore match what they can put out.

@beatboks1 said:

Both Strange and Morgaine Le fey have called on the bands of Cyttorak or invoked his power several times. With that they could bind Juggy (especially if both cast the spell). Even if it's only for a while until they take the rest. Then with every one of them invoking that power. Or if in casting such a spell they invoke not just Cyttorak but also Hoggoth, Oshtur, Seraphim, Cthon , Gaia; Ikonn, Dormammu , Satannish and all the DCU lords of magic. It's not like there is only one of them. They simply cast a spell so that they can't be touched by the powers (intangibility) then spend as long as they like building a spell that crushes all calling on as many deities as required. Not to mention that classic Strange has beaten those who've called on Cyttorak. As for the Pussies how is it classic strange has matched both, and having done so can therefore match what they can put out.

First i am unaware of this, any issue number or scans.

i am assuming it is true still i dont get your points:

• 

  Juggy's cyttorak avatar so beating juggy with cyttorak's power sounds very iffy to me.
• Classic strange has beaten very powerful being BUT WITH PREP which he doesnt have in this case.
• Still juggy cant be defeated :)

The image above is from his fight with D'Spayre who's uber powerful as well, much more powerful than any one here.

@beatboks1 said:

@Killemall said:

@Boobster said:

@Killemall said:

@beatboks1 said:

@Killemall said:

Later X-men comics he was generating his helmet back with ease, so i dont think that would work. besides when as anyone MYSTICALLY removed his helmet, after all he's protected by a very powerful entity who has way more magic power anyone here.

Which any of the Marvel mystics can call upon for power to equal !!

This is not true, when has anyone shown the ability to call upon the power of cyttorak? any issue or scans??

Dormammu. Zom. But those are above pussies in the magic team.

Dormammu and Zom ?? not the question was has anyone shown to call upon the ability of cyttorak? i dont think you are saying Dormammu or Zom have ?? have they? why would they even need big C's powers in the first place.

Both Strange and Morgaine Le fey have called on the bands of Cyttorak or invoked his power several times. With that they could bind Juggy (especially if both cast the spell). Even if it's only for a while until they take the rest. Then with every one of them invoking that power. Or if in casting such a spell they invoke not just Cyttorak but also Hoggoth, Oshtur, Seraphim, Cthon , Gaia; Ikonn, Dormammu , Satannish and all the DCU lords of magic. It's not like there is only one of them. They simply cast a spell so that they can't be touched by the powers (intangibility) then spend as long as they like building a spell that crushes all calling on as many deities as required. Not to mention that classic Strange has beaten those who've called on Cyttorak. As for the Pussies how is it classic strange has matched both, and having done so can therefore match what they can put out.

Classic Strange couldn't beat the Hulk without BFR, nor he could beat the Juggernaut. He is a joke and is nothing without a plot armor or other deities empowering him.

Strange never matched both. Not sure about the flamehead, but Zom was beating the shit out of mister wada wada until LT showed up. Even when Strange had Ancient One's powers.

@Killemall: Magic is crap, they invoke each other's powers because it is stylish and in magic way. Usually, the lesser one invokes the superior. IMO, anyway.

Don't argue with beatboks1, he honestly believes in all the crap from respect threads about those merlyns. How are they going to hurt Juggernaut, I don't know, he was flayed to a skeleton by the user who is above those in teams, Strange has never had any success against him either. And it's not like Juggernaut can't heal.

That's what i have been arguing, its take a lot more to hurt juggernaut

@Boobster:

I. I assume your referring to the WWH vs Dr Strange Issue I've heard so much about on threads. I can't speak to that because I haven't read much Dr Strange in the last 20 years. But "Classic" strange (the one I read in my childhood to early 30's) easily contained and held savage hulk many times in Defenders.

2. he is plot and deities, that's what the charcater is about. Prep makes no difference to one who can control time.

3. I made no reference to Zom or Dormammu in that post. I specifically said Strange has defeated those who have called on Cyttork's power before and he has, Baron Mordo and several others (including Dormammu). His battle with Dormammu so weakened him it almost destroyed the dark dimensions and Strange had to save them as I recall. That's the whole reason Dormammu left Earth alone out of duty to Strange IIRC.

4. The whole idea of invoking others was a concept developed to make the mystics usable in team books. When you look at peak feats of Strange, Fate, Circe, Spectre (with major reality warping etc) they are obviously too powerful to be part of a team fight. But since they have to attain the power in team battle there can be more distractions to prevent them forming the spells to access. In a solo since they usually fight other mystics that attain power the same way the ebb and flow of such battle allows thme to access while tehir enemy is building their spell. It's actually a plot device to allow them to interact more.

5. I've never visited a Dr Strange respect thread to believe. For that matter the only respect threads for mystical characters i have visited are for Dr fate and Alan Scot, because I created them and put all the feats in them. Since everyone constantly says Strange is more powerful( my personal opinion is equal)and Fate could and was (through magic) as physically powerful as Superman there is no reason why Strange can't also. Not to mention Circe also has been.

Of course he can heal he doesn't have to be killed for the win, without the shield he can be physically harmed all it takes is enough to KO him for a second to move on. Though I honestly just noticed it's only one mystic and power at a time like gauntlet not an actual team battle. that makes quite a difference.

@Killemall:

I have no idea where my old Strange and Defenders issues are without a long search so I don't at the moment have the issue number or scan. I know the Dormammu fight was somewhere in the mid 100's of the Strange tales title. I was between 8 to 11 from memory so 1967 to 1970. I could look but I'm not even sure if they're in the boxes i have at my current house (many of which are in the attic and even that would be a challenge) or those at my parents place.

Circe could and has matched the Spectre , a LT level being and LT could affect Juggy just like Eternity has. Of course I didn't read through the entire OP so my whole stance is out of context.

@beatboks1 said:

@Boobster:

I. I assume your referring to the WWH vs Dr Strange Issue I've heard so much about on threads. I can't speak to that because I haven't read much Dr Strange in the last 20 years. But "Classic" strange (the one I read in my childhood to early 30's) easily contained and held savage hulk many times in Defenders.

2. he is plot and deities, that's what the charcater is about. Prep makes no difference to one who can control time.

3. I made no reference to Zom or Dormammu in that post. I specifically said Strange has defeated those who have called on Cyttork's power before and he has, Baron Mordo and several others (including Dormammu). His battle with Dormammu so weakened him it almost destroyed the dark dimensions and Strange had to save them as I recall. That's the whole reason Dormammu left Earth alone out of duty to Strange IIRC.

4. The whole idea of invoking others was a concept developed to make the mystics usable in team books. When you look at peak feats of Strange, Fate, Circe, Spectre (with major reality warping etc) they are obviously too powerful to be part of a team fight. But since they have to attain the power in team battle there can be more distractions to prevent them forming the spells to access. In a solo since they usually fight other mystics that attain power the same way the ebb and flow of such battle allows thme to access while tehir enemy is building their spell. It's actually a plot device to allow them to interact more.

5. I've never visited a Dr Strange respect thread to believe. For that matter the only respect threads for mystical characters i have visited are for Dr fate and Alan Scot, because I created them and put all the feats in them. Since everyone constantly says Strange is more powerful( my personal opinion is equal)and Fate could and was (through magic) as physically powerful as Superman there is no reason why Strange can't also. Not to mention Circe also has been.

Of course he can heal he doesn't have to be killed for the win, without the shield he can be physically harmed all it takes is enough to KO him for a second to move on. Though I honestly just noticed it's only one mystic and power at a time like gauntlet not an actual team battle. that makes quite a difference.

@Killemall:

I have no idea where my old Strange and Defenders issues are without a long search so I don't at the moment have the issue number or scan. I know the Dormammu fight was somewhere in the mid 100's of the Strange tales title. I was between 8 to 11 from memory so 1967 to 1970. I could look but I'm not even sure if they're in the boxes i have at my current house (many of which are in the attic and even that would be a challenge) or those at my parents place.

Circe could and has matched the Spectre , a LT level being and LT could affect Juggy just like Eternity has. Of course I didn't read through the entire OP so my whole stance is out of context.

I'm not reffering to WWH.

He is nothing without them.

Yes, you did. "Matched both". Who both ? I named two.

Spectre is a loser and is nowhere near LT in power.

Strange can't solo, nor can the Dr. Fate.

@Boobster:

Cool, not sure what your referring to then, Like I said he was often able to contain Hulk in Defenders.

The point still stands, when your powers allow you to alter the flow of time of simply become intangible (against a purely physical opponent) you can do your "prep" in battle.

I checked back and your right. I have to apologize for that because honestly I don't know why I types it that way,it certainly wasn't what I was thinking at the time. I was thinking of Dormammu, but more of others just below that he'd faced. And yes it was with prep and plot because that's the nature of strange.

Spec' is DCU's closest thing to LT, the difference being there is no limiting factor on LT, the TOAA doesn't take his power down when he's not acting like a good little boy. At his peak showings he's easily between Eternity and close behind LT (which was what i meant if not implied). The time Circe bested him was without limits and he was aided by others (Fate, Phantom Stranger, Zatanna, Madame Xanadu and others)

I never mentioned anyone soloing (and I've double checked). I've also said I misread OP and missed the gauntlet approach.No Fate wouldn't solo, but at least he'd make an interesting mix on the magic side since he's in the same league physically as many of the opponents. Classic fate had super strength and invulnerability (his weakness being he still had to breath - which with the Helmet didn't matter). he had those powers and his mystical senses plus immortality even without his artifacts. He was even able to physically match Superboy in a team up when Dr Chaos (an E-1 opposite of Fate) made him his thrall (you remember the one who could tow a dozen or so planets on a chain) Plus his GA appearances as a magic user were more like an energy manipulator (using the energy in and around him absorbing the energy of things near near him) and he could mentally (and casually)push a planet into it's sun to destroy it. An energy blast from him could be felt in different universes at the same time.

@beatboks1: Spectre has been beaten up a lot. It now looks like "*insert character name* beat Spectre". Not credible feat anymore.

Intangible opponents, I'm pretty sure Doomsday doesn't give a damn whether his foe intangible or not, Martian was KTFO, so was the Radiant.

Team Magic.