#1 Posted by GoocherLee (365 posts) - - Show Bio

Sure, this fight sort of already happened, but let's discard this issue's writing for a moment and debate what really would've happened.

Given: Hulk is the maddest he's ever been [kind of like, now in WWHulk] and Drax the Destroyer is the starlin version [stupid] and he possesses the Power Infinity Gem.

Who would win in this slugfest? [Let's say it takes place on another world, cause Earth would be trashed were it to play out there.]

#2 Posted by the creator (8577 posts) - - Show Bio

If the Hulk is already massively angry, then his strength is at a point we cannot quantify but i do think that has to be a limit (if he hit something like an asteroid twice the size of the earth his body would disitegrate from the resulting kinectic energy transference).

Drax has a limit to how much enegy he can realistically access from the gem (it's full power reserve can only be acecessed in conjunction with the other gems and he has mental ability limits). So Drax does have massive impressive levels of strength but they are finite.

Whose are higher ?

I would say the Hulks are higher - both both would likely rise at similar rates.

Drax can fly but since he's as thick as a doorpost this may not occur to him to use to his advantage.

I think that Hulk might have the edge 'fighting skill' although since they would both be mad not much would go on apart from swinging.

This Drax can fire energy blasts which he likes to do ('pretty lights!') and these to would be enhanced by the gem.

Both are roughly the same on durability but the hulk does heal.

Both are pretty much the same on endurance normally but Drax accessing the gem might have a slight edge here.

Overall, at their top strength levels, whoever got the first couple of good blows in might end the winner.

I'll say the Hulk would win.

#3 Posted by Donnieman v5.1 (44323 posts) - - Show Bio

Post Deleted.

#4 Posted by GambitO (980 posts) - - Show Bio

definitively HULK WIN

#5 Posted by zee crusher (8997 posts) - - Show Bio

The power gems just makes you liek super strogn right cause champion he was already a fighter lol with or with otu the gem but i think drax would win hulk can get kncoked otu by juggernaut rememeber i do disregard the fights with superman but i think drax has it its said the physical force cant harm this version of his to a certain extent plus nvm drax wins.

#6 Posted by GambitO (980 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't end up believing that DRAX THE DESTROYER

be able to conquer a fighter as HULK with so much experience

it forces fury and winner in really hard battles

because I believe that when being two fighters something slow but with the force

as weapon

the victory is for the but experienced

so I give the victory to HULK

#7 Posted by zee crusher (8997 posts) - - Show Bio

Are you serious the hulk doesnt have any fighting skills and at his maddest he wotn rememeber anything so all hed do is try and hit drax hulk has about as much fighting skills as a new born at his maddes.

#8 Posted by Iori Yagami (98 posts) - - Show Bio

Interesting fight. Hulk at his maddest? I don't really know what that would be like, but he'd have to be pretty beastly to take on Drax with the Power Gem. I'm going with Hulk just because I think Drax is dumb.

#9 Posted by the creator (8577 posts) - - Show Bio

zee crusher says:

"Are you serious the hulk doesnt have any fighting skills and at his maddest he wotn rememeber anything so all hed do is try and hit drax hulk has about as much fighting skills as a new born at his maddes."

And this version of drax does ??

The guy's got the intelligence of an average 4 year old.

How many fighting styles has he dipsplayed - hit it until it goes down.

That's the extent of it.

#10 Posted by zee crusher (8997 posts) - - Show Bio

The_Creator says:

"zee crusher says:
"Are you serious the hulk doesnt have any fighting skills and at his maddest he wotn rememeber anything so all hed do is try and hit drax hulk has about as much fighting skills as a new born at his maddes."
And this version of drax does ?? The guy's got the intelligence of an average 4 year old. How many fighting styles has he dipsplayed - hit it until it goes down. That's the extent of it. "

I never did say drax had fightign skills but the person up their was sayign hulk had fighting skills at his maddest????

#11 Posted by Iori Yagami (98 posts) - - Show Bio

Savage Hulk at his maddest doesn't need fighting skills. Anything he hits just evaporates. When you're that strong, what's the point of subtlety?

#12 Posted by GoocherLee (365 posts) - - Show Bio

It's my hypothetical bout, so I'm going to weigh in with my opinion, too.

Fighting "skills" won't really matter in a fight like this where both combatants are pretty freaking stupid to begin with. However, I think that Drax wins this based on the point that he possesses the Power infinity gem. Even if the weilder of the gem is as dumb as a box of rocks the unlimited power available to them puts them over the top.

Hulk gets madder, he hits harder, the gem supplies Drax with the power he needs to take the blows that Hulk is throwing and offers Drax with what he needs to put the green goliath down.

Its a plantoid-destroying bout, but in the end, Drax wins.

#13 Posted by zee crusher (8997 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree draxs body has already been said to be impervious to physical harm mostly to a certain extent hulk on the other hand no hes just durable drax would eventually knock him out with a hard enough hit.

#14 Posted by GoocherLee (365 posts) - - Show Bio

I didn't realize that they had fought more than once, but as the images below show, the "Savage" hulk and Power Gem Drax have tangled at least three times.

Merged Hulk vs. Drax. WARLOCK AND THE INFINITY WATCH #12-13.

1

2

3

4

5

6

7

8

9

Hulk battles Drax (w/ gem, IINM) to a standstill. SECRET DEFENDERS #24

1

2

3

4

5

And who could forget:

#15 Posted by GoocherLee (365 posts) - - Show Bio

Oh... one more... Infinity Crusade.

" />http://www.leaderslair.com/gammapeople/hulksmashes/ic2.jpg

#16 Posted by GoocherLee (365 posts) - - Show Bio

Nope, Drax Smash hulk.

:)

#17 Posted by Forever (4332 posts) - - Show Bio

GoocherLee says:

"I didn't realize that they had fought more than once, but as the images below show, the "Savage" hulk and Power Gem Drax have tangled at least three times. Merged Hulk vs. Drax. WARLOCK AND THE INFINITY WATCH #12-13. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 Hulk battles Drax (w/ gem, IINM) to a standstill. SECRET DEFENDERS #24 1 2 3 4 5 And who could forget: "

And does that change your opinion in this battle?

#18 Posted by Forever (4332 posts) - - Show Bio

It's actually too close to call for me. I think it could go either way. I dont think Hulk hits an upper limit, at least not before the Power Gem does. If the Gem is infinite, then I think Hulk is too. You have to catch Hulk early, before he gets too mad, to lay him out.

#19 Posted by Satyrquaze (4542 posts) - - Show Bio

The_Creator says:

"If the Hulk is already massively angry, then his strength is at a point we cannot quantify but i do think that has to be a limit (if he hit something like an asteroid twice the size of the earth his body would disitegrate from the resulting kinectic energy transference). Drax has a limit to how much enegy he can realistically access from the gem (it's full power reserve can only be acecessed in conjunction with the other gems and he has mental ability limits). So Drax does have massive impressive levels of strength but they are finite. Whose are higher ? I would say the Hulks are higher - both both would likely rise at similar rates. Drax can fly but since he's as thick as a doorpost this may not occur to him to use to his advantage. I think that Hulk might have the edge 'fighting skill' although since they would both be mad not much would go on apart from swinging. This Drax can fire energy blasts which he likes to do ('pretty lights!') and these to would be enhanced by the gem. Both are roughly the same on durability but the hulk does heal. Both are pretty much the same on endurance normally but Drax accessing the gem might have a slight edge here. Overall, at their top strength levels, whoever got the first couple of good blows in might end the winner. I'll say the Hulk would win."

Actually, the whole basis of the Power Gem is that it gives it bearer unlimited power.

#20 Posted by the creator (8577 posts) - - Show Bio

Satyrquaze says:

"The_Creator says:
"If the Hulk is already massively angry, then his strength is at a point we cannot quantify but i do think that has to be a limit (if he hit something like an asteroid twice the size of the earth his body would disitegrate from the resulting kinectic energy transference). Drax has a limit to how much enegy he can realistically access from the gem (it's full power reserve can only be acecessed in conjunction with the other gems and he has mental ability limits). So Drax does have massive impressive levels of strength but they are finite. Whose are higher ? I would say the Hulks are higher - both both would likely rise at similar rates. Drax can fly but since he's as thick as a doorpost this may not occur to him to use to his advantage. I think that Hulk might have the edge 'fighting skill' although since they would both be mad not much would go on apart from swinging. This Drax can fire energy blasts which he likes to do ('pretty lights!') and these to would be enhanced by the gem. Both are roughly the same on durability but the hulk does heal. Both are pretty much the same on endurance normally but Drax accessing the gem might have a slight edge here. Overall, at their top strength levels, whoever got the first couple of good blows in might end the winner. I'll say the Hulk would win."
Actually, the whole basis of the Power Gem is that it gives it bearer *unlimited* power. "

That might be true but if you refer to the Infinity many mini series events (+ others), the power gem or any of them only gets to operate at full steam when used in conjunction with the other gems. All together their full potential is unlocked. That's why having the Mind gem enhances your abilities but does not allow the user to be all powerful where the mind is concerned, or the Time gem - the holder cannot travel right the way through the time stream but they can do smaller quirky things like slow time down relative to them or appear to move faster, slow a single person down etc. You get the drift.

The same is applicable to the power gem - it does boost power output. Note these words - power output.

So it would boost strength, endurance, energy blasts - but not durability - that's not an output. It would not let someone take more blows.

The amout of energy withdarwn can be massive but there is a limit and this limit is also controlled by the user.

An intelligent user, who has experience in manipulating energies would likely find the gem easier to use and be able to draw on the full potential faster.

But then look at Drax. He appeared to be subconciously drawing on the gem when he became angry (sounds a lot like the hulk doesn't it). Now Drax did not suddenly rise from lifting a 100 tonnes to lifting a 1000 tonnes in a few seconds - as he got angry or was phsically challenged by events, he would draw on more power to overcome events. I think Warlock may have commented on this fact.

So if Drax was fighting a fully mad Hulk but he himself was going in to the battle cold it would be interesting to see if he accessed the gems power quick enough to survive. I think he probably could when faced with imminent destruction.

#21 Posted by zee crusher (8997 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah i think so as well drax xould win hulk isnt that defensive neither is drax but one can take hits better then the other.

#22 Posted by Satyrquaze (4542 posts) - - Show Bio

The_Creator says:

"Satyrquaze says:
"The_Creator says:
"If the Hulk is already massively angry, then his strength is at a point we cannot quantify but i do think that has to be a limit (if he hit something like an asteroid twice the size of the earth his body would disitegrate from the resulting kinectic energy transference). Drax has a limit to how much enegy he can realistically access from the gem (it's full power reserve can only be acecessed in conjunction with the other gems and he has mental ability limits). So Drax does have massive impressive levels of strength but they are finite. Whose are higher ? I would say the Hulks are higher - both both would likely rise at similar rates. Drax can fly but since he's as thick as a doorpost this may not occur to him to use to his advantage. I think that Hulk might have the edge 'fighting skill' although since they would both be mad not much would go on apart from swinging. This Drax can fire energy blasts which he likes to do ('pretty lights!') and these to would be enhanced by the gem. Both are roughly the same on durability but the hulk does heal. Both are pretty much the same on endurance normally but Drax accessing the gem might have a slight edge here. Overall, at their top strength levels, whoever got the first couple of good blows in might end the winner. I'll say the Hulk would win."
Actually, the whole basis of the Power Gem is that it gives it bearer *unlimited* power. "
That might be true but if you refer to the Infinity many mini series events (+ others), the power gem or any of them only gets to operate at full steam when used in conjunction with the other gems. All together their full potential is unlocked. That's why having the Mind gem enhances your abilities but does not allow the user to be all powerful where the mind is concerned, or the Time gem - the holder cannot travel right the way through the time stream but they can do smaller quirky things like slow time down relative to them or appear to move faster, slow a single person down etc. You get the drift. The same is applicable to the power gem - it does boost power output. Note these words - power output. So it would boost strength, endurance, energy blasts - but not durability - that's not an output. It would not let someone take more blows. The amout of energy withdarwn can be massive but there is a limit and this limit is also controlled by the user. An intelligent user, who has experience in manipulating energies would likely find the gem easier to use and be able to draw on the full potential faster. But then look at Drax. He appeared to be subconciously drawing on the gem when he became angry (sounds a lot like the hulk doesn't it). Now Drax did not suddenly rise from lifting a 100 tonnes to lifting a 1000 tonnes in a few seconds - as he got angry or was phsically challenged by events, he would draw on more power to overcome events. I think Warlock may have commented on this fact. So if Drax was fighting a fully mad Hulk but he himself was going in to the battle cold it would be interesting to see if he accessed the gems power quick enough to survive. I think he probably could when faced with imminent destruction. "

That's because it's the Power gem that backs the other Gems with unlimited power. Thanos says as much during the 'Thanos Quest'.

#23 Posted by the creator (8577 posts) - - Show Bio

Think back over all the Infinity Watch comics when Drax had the power gem - what did you see.

Did you see him win every hand to hand fight with one punch ?

Surely he should have been able to with the power gem - since you're saying it grants him unlimited strength. He should have simply ramped his strength to unheard of levels and obliterated anything in front of him.

No, we see him have to fight and continue fighting - why, because he does not access the power reserve on a concious level - not like others did/do. He draws on it's power in relation to the challenge faced - so he up's his power level as things get tougher.

Now, Drax is as thick as a brick. Would he be able to assess the Hulk and gauge his strength level - realising the danger he faced. Probably not as he's as trusting as a kitten sometimes.

So he may likely approach the hulk at him normal strength level - may be a bit higher if a bit aprehensive and subconciously drawing on some power.

If the Hulk hits him when enraged to this level - would it turn Drax in to a pancake in one punch ?

#24 Posted by Phantom Woodsman (45 posts) - - Show Bio

The_Creator says:

"Think back over all the Infinity Watch comics when Drax had the power gem - what did you see. Did you see him win every hand to hand fight with one punch ? Surely he should have been able to with the power gem - since you're saying it grants him unlimited strength. He should have simply ramped his strength to unheard of levels and obliterated anything in front of him. No, we see him have to fight and continue fighting - why, because he does not access the power reserve on a concious level - not like others did/do. He draws on it's power in relation to the challenge faced - so he up's his power level as things get tougher. Now, Drax is as thick as a brick. Would he be able to assess the Hulk and gauge his strength level - realising the danger he faced. Probably not as he's as trusting as a kitten sometimes. So he may likely approach the hulk at him normal strength level - may be a bit higher if a bit aprehensive and subconciously drawing on some power. If the Hulk hits him when enraged to this level - would it turn Drax in to a pancake in one punch ? "

I think that is valid, but when Thanos is doing all of this fighting there is a concious element to his accessing the power of the gems. Indeed his vanity encourages him to confront a great many heros one on one, but when he almost loses the gauntlet in "Infinity Gauntlet" he makes a concious decision to transcend into a state of being must larger than his body or any of his opponents. So why couldn't that same concious decision making be applied to Drax? Isn't it simple enough for Drax to want to overpower Hulk? Wouldn't that be enough to empower him with the gem's cosmic power? I think so. In the end, I don't believe any manner of force generated by the hulk could "pancake" the bearer of the power gem. The gem's power comes from a basic, cosmic level it is the physical manifestation of power. Hulk's power stems from himself, and while hulk can become as strong as he can imagine the depth of an infinity gem is technically unimaginable, finite vs infinite (hence the name infinity gems.)

I think Drax wins.

#25 Posted by GoocherLee (365 posts) - - Show Bio

Well said, I agree.

It was the whole reason I gave Drax the power gem in this battle thread.

Without it, "Stupid" Drax goes down quickly to the rampaging Hulk.

But with it... there's no stopping him, even if you're Hulk, and you're the maddest you've ever been.

The power gem, regardless of the weilder, trumps anything else in the "no holds barred" type match-ups.

Just as the mind gem trumps the universe's greatest telepath in the "mental" match-ups, etc etc.

#26 Posted by the creator (8577 posts) - - Show Bio

Phantom Woodsman says:

"The_Creator says:
"Think back over all the Infinity Watch comics when Drax had the power gem - what did you see. Did you see him win every hand to hand fight with one punch ? Surely he should have been able to with the power gem - since you're saying it grants him unlimited strength. He should have simply ramped his strength to unheard of levels and obliterated anything in front of him. No, we see him have to fight and continue fighting - why, because he does not access the power reserve on a concious level - not like others did/do. He draws on it's power in relation to the challenge faced - so he up's his power level as things get tougher. Now, Drax is as thick as a brick. Would he be able to assess the Hulk and gauge his strength level - realising the danger he faced. Probably not as he's as trusting as a kitten sometimes. So he may likely approach the hulk at him normal strength level - may be a bit higher if a bit aprehensive and subconciously drawing on some power. If the Hulk hits him when enraged to this level - would it turn Drax in to a pancake in one punch ? "
I think that is valid, but when Thanos is doing all of this fighting there is a concious element to his accessing the power of the gems. Indeed his vanity encourages him to confront a great many heros one on one, but when he almost loses the gauntlet in "Infinity Gauntlet" he makes a concious decision to transcend into a state of being must larger than his body or any of his opponents. So why couldn't that same concious decision making be applied to Drax? Isn't it simple enough for Drax to want to overpower Hulk? Wouldn't that be enough to empower him with the gem's cosmic power? I think so. In the end, I don't believe any manner of force generated by the hulk could "pancake" the bearer of the power gem. The gem's power comes from a basic, cosmic level it is the physical manifestation of power. Hulk's power stems from himself, and while hulk can become as strong as he can imagine the depth of an infinity gem is technically unimaginable, finite vs infinite (hence the name infinity gems.) I think Drax wins."

The powergem does not enhance durability. Organic body armour (or toughness) is not a power output, otherwise it would it need to be called the durability gem. If the user used a force field (which has a power output) it would enhance the field strength. So the user can be pancaked but for Drax it is difficult to achieve this as it would take a cruise missile to the head to rock him.
Post Edited:2007-07-21 12:18:20

#27 Posted by the creator (8577 posts) - - Show Bio

GoocherLee says:

"Well said, I agree. It was the whole reason I gave Drax the power gem in this battle thread. Without it, "Stupid" Drax goes down quickly to the rampaging Hulk. But with it... there's no stopping him, even if you're Hulk, and you're the maddest you've ever been. The power gem, regardless of the weilder, trumps anything else in the "no holds barred" type match-ups. Just as the mind gem trumps the universe's greatest telepath in the "mental" match-ups, etc etc."

Without the power gem to provide the energy reserve to accomplish the high end power use, the other gems enhance their users, allowing them to use low cost powers (see prior postings).

Having the mindgem did not make moondragon an all powerful telepath. Her having the midgem did not mean that she could not be psionically beaten.

#28 Posted by GoocherLee (365 posts) - - Show Bio

I disagree.

Each gem in and of itself is the ultimate power in their respective categories.

True, the power gem amplified each of them when they are combined, but individually they

draw power from the infinite. Hence the name "Infinity Gems".

If you'll recall, Adam, while still in possession of the Infinity Gauntlet, placed

restrictions on Moondragon's ability to tap into the mind gem before bestowing it upon her.

Had he not done so, Moondragon would certainly have been the numero uno mind in the Marvel Universe.

Same goes for the other gems, albeit differently. Pip and Drax didn't have the mental capacity to access the full power of their respective gems[Space & Power]. And Gamora was a reluctant weilder from the begining, so she never attempted to harness the full power of the time gem. Similarly, Thanos never sought to use his reality gem to its fullest extent when he possessed it.

But in other, more capable/willing hands, possessing just one of the Infinity Gems would make that weilder the ultimate in that respective category [either mind, space, time, power, reality, or the soul].

#29 Posted by the creator (8577 posts) - - Show Bio

Good, I glad we can agree to disagree otherwise this site would be quite boring.

#30 Posted by TheSacredOneWithin (450 posts) - - Show Bio
#31 Posted by dondave (37385 posts) - - Show Bio

Drax