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#1 Edited by EternalWrath (115 posts) - - Show Bio

The fight takes place at the Valley of the End. Begin 23ft. away.
Classic Madara with his weapons.  
The Second has his weapons.
No Morals. 
Random encounter. 
Standard winning rules. 

 
 
 

  

#2 Posted by SpeedForceSpider (902 posts) - - Show Bio

Madara stomps.

#3 Posted by EternalWrath (115 posts) - - Show Bio

I highly doubt that. 

#4 Posted by SpeedForceSpider (902 posts) - - Show Bio

I would love to hear your argument. Because the Second is nowhere near the First.

#5 Posted by CerberusPrime3k (950 posts) - - Show Bio

We really don't know much about him besides, being the creator of the edo tensei, king of water jutsu's and hes the first hokage's lil bro

Madara stomps......

#6 Posted by PlasticBag (1222 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree current Madara not only defeated all the Kages and easily blocked Naruto in Biju Mode. The second isn't nearly on his level. Also Madara has rinnegan too so yea lol.

#7 Edited by EternalWrath (115 posts) - - Show Bio

Madara won't stomp the 2nd.

#8 Posted by PlasticBag (1222 posts) - - Show Bio

@EternalWrath: What are you getting all upset about?

#9 Posted by SpeedForceSpider (902 posts) - - Show Bio

@PlasticBag said:

I agree current Madara not only defeated all the Kages and easily blocked Naruto in Biju Mode. The second isn't nearly on his level. Also Madara has rinnegan too so yea lol.

I agree 100%.

@EternalWrath said:

Madara won't stomp the 2nd.

Give us a sound argument that isn't based on your opinion.

#10 Posted by EternalWrath (115 posts) - - Show Bio

First Hokage > Second Hokage  
First Hokage > Madara Uchiha. 
 
Second Hokage = Madara Uchiha.

#11 Posted by EternalWrath (115 posts) - - Show Bio
@PlasticBag: I'm not upset. I just think it is a stalemate. 
#12 Posted by CerberusPrime3k (950 posts) - - Show Bio

@EternalWrath said:

@PlasticBag: I'm not upset. I just think it is a stalemate.

Doubt it Madara has the rinnengan and perfect susanoo and 1st's wood style which he used superbly 2nd has no answer against any of that

#13 Posted by PlasticBag (1222 posts) - - Show Bio

Yea Madara pretty much stalemated the First when they fought that was before he had perfect susanoo and rinnegan. Also First is stronger than the Second so with all the new abilities he has how will second beat him?

#14 Posted by EternalWrath (115 posts) - - Show Bio
@CerberusPrime3k: Oh yeah, I should of taken that into consideration. 
 
@PlasticBag: I guess not. 
 
This is Classic Madara now. I change my mind. 
#15 Posted by PlasticBag (1222 posts) - - Show Bio

Okay hmm i'm not sure then who the winner would be. I am still leaning toward Madara winning because not much is none about the Second and how strong of a ninja he was. It'd be great to see him come back during the war to see how strong he really is.

#16 Edited by CerberusPrime3k (950 posts) - - Show Bio

@EternalWrath: Now He has an EMS and Susanoo with a numerous amount of Uchiha techniques.

He still has the edge here

#17 Posted by SpeedForceSpider (902 posts) - - Show Bio

@EternalWrath said:

First Hokage > Second Hokage First Hokage > Madara Uchiha. Second Hokage = Madara Uchiha.

First Hokage >= Madara > Second Hokage

The 1st barely could beat him and since the 1st is above his brother logically so should Madara.

#18 Posted by jeanroygrant (20191 posts) - - Show Bio

No one can really say. I don't know why people are saying Madara. They haven't even seen what the Second Hokage can do. Maybe he is stronger than Madara, seeing how he is the creator of the Edo Tensei.

#19 Posted by EternalWrath (115 posts) - - Show Bio
@CerberusPrime3k@PlasticBag:  I can agree with that. 
 
@SpeedForceSpider: You have a point.
#20 Posted by SpeedForceSpider (902 posts) - - Show Bio

@EternalWrath: Glad we can agree on a point.

#21 Posted by EternalWrath (115 posts) - - Show Bio
@SpeedForceSpider: Me, too. The Second Hokage needs more showings. Its too bad he is dead. 
#22 Posted by SpeedForceSpider (902 posts) - - Show Bio

@EternalWrath said:

@SpeedForceSpider: Me, too. The Second Hokage needs more showings. Its too bad he is dead.

I agree. It would have been cool to see him get resurrected again.

#23 Posted by EternalWrath (115 posts) - - Show Bio
@SpeedForceSpider: Indeed, but who would he fight this time? 
#24 Posted by SpeedForceSpider (902 posts) - - Show Bio

@EternalWrath: Maybe Sasuke and his team. Everybody else is struggling which Madara.

#25 Posted by EternalWrath (115 posts) - - Show Bio
@SpeedForceSpider: Not bad. So, who do you think can beat Current Madara besides the First?
#26 Posted by ALMIGHTY (601 posts) - - Show Bio

@EternalWrath: If this is "classic madara" why do you have a pic of "edo" madara ???

Anyway... Classic Madara has the edge and probably would win 7/10 times...

Edo Madara would stomp 9/10 times...

#27 Posted by SpeedForceSpider (902 posts) - - Show Bio

@EternalWrath: I doubt anyone can. Unless some plot device plays in effect.

#28 Posted by EternalWrath (115 posts) - - Show Bio
@ALMIGHTY: I like the picture, that is why. 
 
 
@SpeedForceSpider: Yeah or some form of PIS comes into play. Naruto has some PIS.
#29 Posted by SpeedForceSpider (902 posts) - - Show Bio

@EternalWrath: I agree Naruto has got some ridiculous powers. He used to be equal to Sasuke now he is way above him. I bet Sasuke is gonna get a Plot device power-up. I wouldn't be surprised if his Sharingan evolves into Rinningan.

#30 Edited by EternalWrath (115 posts) - - Show Bio
@SpeedForceSpider: Yeah, Naruto got a HUGE  power up. It is amazing. Sasuke would probably get a new form of Susanoo or something. I agree, I wouldn't surprised if he popped a Rinnegan out of his a$$. lol 
#31 Posted by ohgodwhy (96 posts) - - Show Bio

Classic Madara should win this one. It was always said that when the Senju fought the Uchiha, Hashirama would always fight against Madara because he was his equal in strength. Why did Tobirama never fight against Madara? And if Hashirama was so much stronger than Madara then why was he never able to kill him?

As well as this Tobirama got taken out by 20 elite ninjas. For some reason I don't think either Hashirama or Madara would fall so easily and if either was near Naruto's level right now (Which Edo Madara seems to be at), 20 ninjas would be nothing.

It could be close but there Madara should win this one in most scenarios. Especially if he has his Uchiha fan which absorbs and reflects all jutsus.

#32 Posted by IncredibleBongoBands (69 posts) - - Show Bio

Hmm im pretty undecided about pre-edo Madara vs 2nd hokage

but Edo Madara, with all his OP upgrades, would run Tobirama over

#33 Edited by Jayimfamous (64 posts) - - Show Bio

Izuna was equal to madara and he also awoke the mangekyo sharigan a little after madara... Tobirama beat izuna which was a equal to madara so how does madara win... Madara only became stronger when taking his brother eyes and that still probably put put him on equal footing with tobirama... The first was on another level and also madara had no defense for the flying thunder god technique before he had these upgrades. But tobirama is n hashirama were stronger than the uchiha brothers at the time. No one was able to match the kages prowess at the time. Tobirama FTW here

#34 Edited by PrinceAragorn1 (17877 posts) - - Show Bio

Going with madara. He was about equal to hashirama, the strongest shinobi at the time.

#35 Edited by prince_wright (2 posts) - - Show Bio

@eternalwrath: @eternalwrath: @eternalwrath: okay I'm gonna try to be non biased as best as possible cause I'm a Madara fan

I'm up to date on the manga, so I've seen first hand the two going at it.

Let's start by weighing out powers of tobirama, there is no doubt he is powerful even madara said it was comparable to him in their time however he was not stronger why I say this is because of something else Madara said and what I generally know.

Izuna died because he got careless and was running down on stamina, Madara said tobirama capitalizes on the moment his oppents think they have the upper hand I believe this is why izuna lost as well as the fact that he lacks something that madara has. Which seperates the levels on which Madara and tobirama are at, this can be proven when Tobirama tried the same trick on Madara from "behind" at point blank range and failed miserably.

Madara has the extra sense of sensitive awareness of his surroundings, something tobirama doesn't know how to get around unlike hashirama which was the tiebreaker during their fight.

You people should understand that Uchiha and Senju usually have rivals in the opposing clans which are more or less on the same level so all out fighting was senseless as it led to many draws what it all came down to it their fights was very effective battle tactics as well as who has more advantages than the other. Thats what settles it.

Hashirama had a bit of chakra advantage over Madara plus a means to break his sense of awareness to use this last bit of chakra. Without this advantage the would stay at a tie or both kill each other simultaneously.

Unlike Madara, Izuna didn't have this advantage which doesn't really put him under Madara in terms of skill and strength but seperates his win or loss against his rival tobirama

Now if you ask what seperates Hashirama from his brother I would say advantages as well and maybe a few skills.

So in those days putting Madara against Tobirama would be a bit unfair

He would lose since Madara has a little bit more power over him and a lot of advantages

Strength doesn't determine a battle tactics and strategies do, advantages too

#36 Edited by prince_wright (2 posts) - - Show Bio

@jayimfamous: you have to consider a few things before you can say that.

Hashirama was stronger than Madara, occasionally Madara rivaled him because of advantages and tactics which is what really decides a fight, this is seen when Madara and Hashirama sparred when they were young and Hashirama knocked Madara to the floor with his strength only then Madara knocked him down with a stone he threw sometime earlier and also seen when in their elder days Hashiram pretty much tiding the battle in his favor with his strength only while Madara burrow the kyubi's to even up the playing field and if one was to be victorious they would have to pull something else out their ass, which is what Hashirama did and won

Samething with Tobirama and Izuna

It came down to advantages n how you use those advantages, if Tobirama was all that strong over Izuna who was "so helpless against flying thunder god" why didn't the wars end long before, if that was the case Izuna would have been dead long before an Madara would have to face hashiram and Tobirama and would have also lost long ago and with the two strongest senjus on the battlefield and no uchiha strong enough to challenge them it would have been over.

Thunder God didn't decide the battle with those two it was actually and advantage on tobiramas side.

Firstly, he waited until Izuna was well into battle and pretty much used up a lot of chakra, and like Madara said he capitalized on the moment people let their guard down, which is exactly what Izuna did, if he had the same advantage as his brother where he was highly sensitive to his surrounding he would have felt Tobirama coming like Madara did and dodged but he didn't have that advantage and got fatally wounded.

Learn this from someone who has been in real life battles kid its not strength that wins battles its advantages strategies and tactics.

If you were to compare hashirama's full strength against Madara's full strength it would be more or less the same however if hashirama throws in his advantage of sage mode he goes up by a half

Madara needed to even that up so he went out for the kyubi and came back

Hashirama had to come up with another advantage to break the tie

That's what seperates the leagues between them and theeir brothers.

Now look at more proof,

When Hashirama came back and went head to head with Upgraded Madara you would realize they were still pretty much fighting at evens the tables tilted in Madara's directions cause Hashirama didn't have the advantage of knowing more about his rinnigan techniques he had to learn as he fought and was holding his own that's impressive. But note Madara wasn't using Hashirama's wood style against him at least not to my knowledge most likely due to pride, anyway Madara almost lost because dispute having all the added modifications Hashirama ended up with the advantage of having more hands to help him trap Madara and if Madara didn't pull something/advantage again out of his ass fast he would have been sealed and gone. This advantage was being revived which granted him a hella lot more strength, this advantage overwhelmed Hashirama soo much despite his advantage he lost in about ten seconds

And when Tobirama tried his luck he lost in the time he took for sasuke to have a flashback/three seconds maximum

And tobirama had the advantage of the element of surprise thunder god and an opening like no other. This advantage would have worked on anyone and everyone that doesn't have an advantage to counter this the same one he had from way back, the one only hashirama could get around but unfortunately after Madara's immediate power boost and what not along with hashirama not given that opportunity tobirama got he lost

#37 Edited by Teerack (6625 posts) - - Show Bio

It's already been emphasized that the second is no match for him, and thoughts to the contrary are just fanboyism.

#38 Edited by PrinceAragorn1 (17877 posts) - - Show Bio

Edo tensei ftw. Otherwise, I don't see tobirama beating him from his showings.

@teerack said:

It's already been emphasized that the second is no match for him, and thoughts to the contrary are just fanboyism.

that's madara with senju DNA. Not normal madara.

#39 Posted by Teerack (6625 posts) - - Show Bio

@princearagorn1: The first went toe to toe with him with the senju dna, and they made it really clear the first was a lot stronger then the rest of the hokages. The second couldn't even break free from Orochimaru resurrection control.

#40 Posted by dondave (37990 posts) - - Show Bio

Madara

Online
#41 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (17877 posts) - - Show Bio

@teerack said:

@princearagorn1: The first went toe to toe with him with the senju dna, and they made it really clear the first was a lot stronger then the rest of the hokages. The second couldn't even break free from Orochimaru resurrection control.

again. the reason he couldn't break free was senju dna lol.

senju dna. senju dna everywhere. lol.

#42 Posted by DeathHero61 (6629 posts) - - Show Bio

Madara was stomping the 5 kages of the current generation easily. Along with the entire shinobi alliance. How doesn't the 2nd get stomped?

Online
#43 Posted by Nyas (2771 posts) - - Show Bio

Sooo... why is this even a debate ? Madara was clear : Only Hashirama can match him in a fight.

Bonus scan :

#44 Posted by thegreat4u (350 posts) - - Show Bio

If its current madara then he stomps without breaking a sweat, even if madara didn't have all the power ups that he has now he would still win only the first hokage was able to beat madara.

#45 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (17877 posts) - - Show Bio

Madara was stomping the 5 kages of the current generation easily. Along with the entire shinobi alliance. How doesn't the 2nd get stomped?

that was edo madara with rinnegan and senju DNA. This is classic madara.

And neither has any feats lol.

#46 Posted by Farkam (4932 posts) - - Show Bio

@deathhero61 said:

Madara was stomping the 5 kages of the current generation easily. Along with the entire shinobi alliance. How doesn't the 2nd get stomped?

that was edo madara with rinnegan and senju DNA. This is classic madara.

And neither has any feats lol.

What do you mean?

#47 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (17877 posts) - - Show Bio

@farkam said:

@princearagorn1 said:

@deathhero61 said:

Madara was stomping the 5 kages of the current generation easily. Along with the entire shinobi alliance. How doesn't the 2nd get stomped?

that was edo madara with rinnegan and senju DNA. This is classic madara.

And neither has any feats lol.

What do you mean?

classic madara was shown one time, and that time he had the kyubi. Classic tobirama was showed one time, and he made sarutobi hokage. lol.

#48 Posted by Touken (25 posts) - - Show Bio

Madara wins. Tobirama has no answer to Perfect Susanoo.

#49 Posted by Farkam (4932 posts) - - Show Bio

@farkam said:

@princearagorn1 said:

@deathhero61 said:

Madara was stomping the 5 kages of the current generation easily. Along with the entire shinobi alliance. How doesn't the 2nd get stomped?

that was edo madara with rinnegan and senju DNA. This is classic madara.

And neither has any feats lol.

What do you mean?

classic madara was shown one time, and that time he had the kyubi. Classic tobirama was showed one time, and he made sarutobi hokage. lol.

Are you updated on the manga or no?

#50 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (17877 posts) - - Show Bio

@farkam said:

@princearagorn1 said:

@farkam said:

@princearagorn1 said:

@deathhero61 said:

Madara was stomping the 5 kages of the current generation easily. Along with the entire shinobi alliance. How doesn't the 2nd get stomped?

that was edo madara with rinnegan and senju DNA. This is classic madara.

And neither has any feats lol.

What do you mean?

classic madara was shown one time, and that time he had the kyubi. Classic tobirama was showed one time, and he made sarutobi hokage. lol.

Are you updated on the manga or no?

yes. But reincarnated madara has senju dna, and tobirama was only shown as edo, infinite chakra. Nothing to do with classic versions.