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#1 Posted by Nefarious (21947 posts) - - Show Bio

 

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
Setting: Outer Space. 
 
Stipulations: 
 
Morals: In character. 
Elimination via any method of winning. 
Prep: Random encounter. 
Both are at regular levels. 
The Versions are in the images. 
 
Who wins this one?
#2 Posted by King Saturn (224776 posts) - - Show Bio
I would like to think Jaspers reality warping could do something to eventually affect Dark Pheonix but that is uncertain. 
#3 Posted by Nefarious (21947 posts) - - Show Bio
@King Saturn: How come it is uncertain?
#4 Posted by jeanroygrant (20191 posts) - - Show Bio

What? Mad Jim Jaspers curbstomps this hard!

#5 Posted by King Saturn (224776 posts) - - Show Bio
@Nefarious said:
@King Saturn: How come it is uncertain?
because the Phoenix Force is one of those Multiversal Forces of Marvel IIRC... 
#6 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@King Saturn said:

@Nefarious said:
@King Saturn: How come it is uncertain?
because the Phoenix Force is one of those Multiversal Forces of Marvel IIRC...

Agreed. Unless its Pre Retcon Beyonder (Which Jim is nowhere near) I dont see how he keeps his Life Force being Extinguish...

#7 Posted by Nefarious (21947 posts) - - Show Bio
@King Saturn: Oh.
#8 Posted by Lord_Moldemvort (144 posts) - - Show Bio

mad jim destroys her

#9 Posted by Sethlol (1296 posts) - - Show Bio

MJ moonwalks over her corpse.

#10 Posted by X_insignia1 (1394 posts) - - Show Bio

Mad Jim Jaspers destroys her

#11 Posted by jeanroygrant (20191 posts) - - Show Bio

MJJ. murderstomps.

#12 Posted by kingkronos (2501 posts) - - Show Bio

MJJ blinkstomps with absolute ease.

#13 Posted by Bo88gdan (4501 posts) - - Show Bio

Mad Jim Jaspers

#14 Posted by Morphtek (19 posts) - - Show Bio

Lol MJJ can't curbstopm Phoenix nor kill her. Phoenix is the embodyment of life, and if you wanna kill "life" you must erase the concept and the only capable of that is PR-Beyonder.

#15 Posted by rolldestroyer (3508 posts) - - Show Bio

@morphtek said:

Lol MJJ can't curbstopm Phoenix nor kill her. Phoenix is the embodyment of life, and if you wanna kill "life" you must erase the concept and the only capable of that is PR-Beyonder.

MJJ was about to destroy the omniverse, erasing a concept is nothing compared to that.

#16 Posted by AngryHulks (3001 posts) - - Show Bio

Mad Jim Jaspers, even if he can't permenently take Phoenix out of existence he can still trap her powerless, then he can have a tea break afterward, Englishman style.

#17 Posted by SSJLozza (1528 posts) - - Show Bio

MJJ, but it's close imo.

#18 Posted by Roddy010 (5374 posts) - - Show Bio

Phoenix due to telepathy. MJJ is powerful but he's no telepath.

#19 Edited by Killemall (18640 posts) - - Show Bio

Unless Phoenix BFRs him into the void, in show of pure power MJJ would win.

All he needs to is get her within in warp.

That being said, pretty sure TP doesnt work on him. He always had 2 and only 2 weakeness:

1. Fury (created by himself)

2. Powerless in absence of reality.

#20 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (4199 posts) - - Show Bio

Unless Phoenix BFRs him into the void, in show of pure power MJJ would win.

All he needs to is get her within in warp.

That being said, pretty sure TP doesnt work on him. He always had 2 and only 2 weakeness:

1. Fury (created by himself)

2. Powerless in absence of reality.

616 Jaspers did not create the Fury 238 Jaspers, the one that did create the Fury can be killed and was killed when his universe was destroyed. 616 Jaspers was one shotted by Captain Britain and was out of commission for months as a result and was destroyed by Blink in the end, while merged with the Fury. There is no show of power that 616 Jaspers has that I can remember that makes him planetary let alone powerful enough to fight with cosmic beings. His Jaspers warp that everybody loves to say warped everything and made him Eternity didn't even spread outside of Great Britain. All the hype surrounding 616 Japsers is based on 238 Jaspers. Neither of them proved to be a threat to the omniverse outside of hype, and the nature of that threat was not because they could simply end or warp the omniverse it was based on the way his warps left unchecked could spread to other realities, another baseless theory as the Jaspers that was the reason for this theory was destroyed before his power could even infect his entire universe let alone others. The way I remember it that Jaspers only warped his Earth and other worlds within his own universe.

#21 Edited by SC (13299 posts) - - Show Bio

@killemall said:

Unless Phoenix BFRs him into the void, in show of pure power MJJ would win.

All he needs to is get her within in warp.

That being said, pretty sure TP doesnt work on him. He always had 2 and only 2 weakeness:

1. Fury (created by himself)

2. Powerless in absence of reality.

616 Jaspers did not create the Fury 238 Jaspers, the one that did create the Fury can be killed and was killed when his universe was destroyed. 616 Jaspers was one shotted by Captain Britain and was out of commission for months as a result and was destroyed by Blink in the end, while merged with the Fury. There is no show of power that 616 Jaspers has that I can remember that makes him planetary let alone powerful enough to fight with cosmic beings. His Jaspers warp that everybody loves to say warped everything and made him Eternity didn't even spread outside of Great Britain. All the hype surrounding 616 Japsers is based on 238 Jaspers. Neither of them proved to be a threat to the omniverse outside of hype, and the nature of that threat was not because they could simply end or warp the omniverse it was based on the way his warps left unchecked could spread to other realities, another baseless theory as the Jaspers that was the reason for this theory was destroyed before his power could even infect his entire universe let alone others. The way I remember it that Jaspers only warped his Earth and other worlds within his own universe.

Jaspers/Fury was not destroyed by Blink, they survived, and it was the nature of Fury was conflicting with the nature of Jaspers imagination/creativity (and ability to utilize powers. In essence, when they were merged their potential increased in a scary way but they also became each others crux and as a result became less effective. Hence some choppy showings, proceeded moments earlier where Jaspers would lose control or be shocked at some new realization at being half Fury.

Moderator
#22 Edited by LordOfAllHumans (4199 posts) - - Show Bio

@sc said:

@lordofallhumans said:

@killemall said:

Unless Phoenix BFRs him into the void, in show of pure power MJJ would win.

All he needs to is get her within in warp.

That being said, pretty sure TP doesnt work on him. He always had 2 and only 2 weakeness:

1. Fury (created by himself)

2. Powerless in absence of reality.

616 Jaspers did not create the Fury 238 Jaspers, the one that did create the Fury can be killed and was killed when his universe was destroyed. 616 Jaspers was one shotted by Captain Britain and was out of commission for months as a result and was destroyed by Blink in the end, while merged with the Fury. There is no show of power that 616 Jaspers has that I can remember that makes him planetary let alone powerful enough to fight with cosmic beings. His Jaspers warp that everybody loves to say warped everything and made him Eternity didn't even spread outside of Great Britain. All the hype surrounding 616 Japsers is based on 238 Jaspers. Neither of them proved to be a threat to the omniverse outside of hype, and the nature of that threat was not because they could simply end or warp the omniverse it was based on the way his warps left unchecked could spread to other realities, another baseless theory as the Jaspers that was the reason for this theory was destroyed before his power could even infect his entire universe let alone others. The way I remember it that Jaspers only warped his Earth and other worlds within his own universe.

Jaspers/Fury was not destroyed by Blink, they survived, and it was the nature of Fury was conflicting with the nature of Jaspers imagination/creativity (and ability to utilize powers. In essence, when they were merged their potential increased in a scary way but they also became each others crux and as a result became less effective. Hence some choppy showings, proceeded moments earlier where Jaspers would lose control or be shocked at some new realization at being half Fury.

When did he/they come back? Has he reappeared since Die by the Sword?

In essence, merged, he should be way more powerful than when he is not merged. If Blink can exploit the weakness due to the merge I don't see why Dark Phoenix can't. 616 Jaspers would be the one merged with Fury currently.

#23 Edited by New_World_Order (13516 posts) - - Show Bio

MJJ.

#24 Posted by Sethlol (1296 posts) - - Show Bio

MJJ.

#25 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (4199 posts) - - Show Bio

Dark Phoenix, until proof is provided showing he is immune to telepathy. Currently even merged with the Fury he has been taken out by far less. Pre-merge (616) he is not the omniversal powerhouse people paint him as, not even planetary. 238 would have a better chance but he can be destroyed by obliterating the space he is occupying.

#26 Posted by Morphtek (19 posts) - - Show Bio

@morphtek said:

Lol MJJ can't curbstopm Phoenix nor kill her. Phoenix is the embodyment of life, and if you wanna kill "life" you must erase the concept and the only capable of that is PR-Beyonder.

MJJ was about to destroy the omniverse, erasing a concept is nothing compared to that.

Nope destrying an omniverse has nothing to do with destroying a concept, as i said, the only capable of doing that was the Beyonder, not even PR-Moleculeman could do it.

#27 Posted by rolldestroyer (3508 posts) - - Show Bio

@morphtek said:

@rolldestroyer said:

@morphtek said:

Lol MJJ can't curbstopm Phoenix nor kill her. Phoenix is the embodyment of life, and if you wanna kill "life" you must erase the concept and the only capable of that is PR-Beyonder.

MJJ was about to destroy the omniverse, erasing a concept is nothing compared to that.

Nope destrying an omniverse has nothing to do with destroying a concept, as i said, the only capable of doing that was the Beyonder, not even PR-Moleculeman could do it.

the omniverse is the totality of everything that exists. marvel, dc, image even our world is within the omniverse. of course in marvel when the word omniverse is mentioned it doesn't actually mean it, since it isn't possible, but it does mean that MJJ was going to destroy everything in marvel including all concepts, since concepts are just a small part of the omniverse.

also the ultimate nullifier can erase concepts, and among other powerful deities and artifacts.

#28 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (4199 posts) - - Show Bio

@morphtek said:

@rolldestroyer said:

@morphtek said:

Lol MJJ can't curbstopm Phoenix nor kill her. Phoenix is the embodyment of life, and if you wanna kill "life" you must erase the concept and the only capable of that is PR-Beyonder.

MJJ was about to destroy the omniverse, erasing a concept is nothing compared to that.

Nope destrying an omniverse has nothing to do with destroying a concept, as i said, the only capable of doing that was the Beyonder, not even PR-Moleculeman could do it.

the omniverse is the totality of everything that exists. marvel, dc, image even our world is within the omniverse. of course in marvel when the word omniverse is mentioned it doesn't actually mean it, since it isn't possible, but it does mean that MJJ was going to destroy everything in marvel including all concepts, since concepts are just a small part of the omniverse.

also the ultimate nullifier can erase concepts, and among other powerful deities and artifacts.

When was he about to destroy the omniverse?

#29 Posted by rolldestroyer (3508 posts) - - Show Bio
#30 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (4199 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordofallhumans:

it was mentioned by merlyn himself.

Merlyn said he was a threat to the omniverse, this was because his warps if left unchecked will spread and Merlyn feared that if left unchecked the warp would spread and potentially cover the omniverse. In short, although poweful, MJJ cannot just decide to warp and destroy the omniverse it's a theoreticl result based on the gradual spread of his warp. 616 Jaspers only created a warp large enough to warp Great Britain, far from an actual universal threat let alone an omniversal one.

#31 Posted by rolldestroyer (3508 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordofallhumans:

it was mentioned by merlyn himself.

Merlyn said he was a threat to the omniverse, this was because his warps if left unchecked will spread and Merlyn feared that if left unchecked the warp would spread and potentially cover the omniverse. In short, although poweful, MJJ cannot just decide to warp and destroy the omniverse it's a theoreticl result based on the gradual spread of his warp. 616 Jaspers only created a warp large enough to warp Great Britain, far from an actual universal threat let alone an omniversal one.

what? MJJ of earth 238 was a universal threat if not more, the 616 was much more powerful which was mentioned in the mighty world of marvel volume 2 #9

#32 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (4199 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordofallhumans said:

@lordofallhumans:

it was mentioned by merlyn himself.

Merlyn said he was a threat to the omniverse, this was because his warps if left unchecked will spread and Merlyn feared that if left unchecked the warp would spread and potentially cover the omniverse. In short, although poweful, MJJ cannot just decide to warp and destroy the omniverse it's a theoreticl result based on the gradual spread of his warp. 616 Jaspers only created a warp large enough to warp Great Britain, far from an actual universal threat let alone an omniversal one.

what? MJJ of earth 238 was a universal threat if not more, the 616 was much more powerful which was mentioned in the mighty world of marvel volume 2 #9

Irrelevant. MJJ 238 was only a potential threat, his unverse was destroyed before there was any proof that he was a larger threat than he actually was, his power only covered Earth and some other planets in his universe. The entire universe being destroyed was overkill and due to Mandragon ignoring the protests of others, it was overkilled because the "more powerful" MJJ showed that you can stop a MJJ without destroying a universe (the neither version acutally warped). You also ignored the actual reason Merlyn makes this comment, and it's not based him acutally having power on an omniversal level only the potential to cause reality to break down on that level if left unchecked.

616 whether more powerful or not does not even have feats to rival the range of 238s power. If the only things you are going on is Merlyn saying he was a threat and that one version is more powerful than another, then remember that the Otherworlders also saw Phoenix/Rachel as such a threat and that Jean is more powerful than Rachel.

Fact, 616 MJJ although called a threat to the omniversal threat, he never acutally became one.

#33 Posted by rolldestroyer (3508 posts) - - Show Bio

@rolldestroyer said:

@lordofallhumans said:

@lordofallhumans:

it was mentioned by merlyn himself.

Merlyn said he was a threat to the omniverse, this was because his warps if left unchecked will spread and Merlyn feared that if left unchecked the warp would spread and potentially cover the omniverse. In short, although poweful, MJJ cannot just decide to warp and destroy the omniverse it's a theoreticl result based on the gradual spread of his warp. 616 Jaspers only created a warp large enough to warp Great Britain, far from an actual universal threat let alone an omniversal one.

what? MJJ of earth 238 was a universal threat if not more, the 616 was much more powerful which was mentioned in the mighty world of marvel volume 2 #9

Irrelevant. MJJ 238 was only a potential threat, his unverse was destroyed before there was any proof that he was a larger threat than he actually was, his power only covered Earth and some other planets in his universe. The entire universe being destroyed was overkill and due to Mandragon ignoring the protests of others, it was overkilled because the "more powerful" MJJ showed that you can stop a MJJ without destroying a universe (the neither version acutally warped). You also ignored the actual reason Merlyn makes this comment, and it's not based him acutally having power on an omniversal level only the potential to cause reality to break down on that level if left unchecked.

616 whether more powerful or not does not even have feats to rival the range of 238s power. If the only things you are going on is Merlyn saying he was a threat and that one version is more powerful than another, then remember that the Otherworlders also saw Phoenix/Rachel as such a threat and that Jean is more powerful than Rachel.

Fact, 616 MJJ although called a threat to the omniversal threat, he never acutally became one.

i know, in fact both MJJ versions were potential threats since neither of them displayed their full power.

and MJJ having the potential power to cause the omniverse to break down means he has omniversal power level.

it's stated on panel that 616 version is more powerful than the 238.

yes he didn't destroy the omniverse but the fact that he had the potential makes him one.

#34 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (4199 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordofallhumans said:

@rolldestroyer said:

@lordofallhumans said:

@lordofallhumans:

it was mentioned by merlyn himself.

Merlyn said he was a threat to the omniverse, this was because his warps if left unchecked will spread and Merlyn feared that if left unchecked the warp would spread and potentially cover the omniverse. In short, although poweful, MJJ cannot just decide to warp and destroy the omniverse it's a theoreticl result based on the gradual spread of his warp. 616 Jaspers only created a warp large enough to warp Great Britain, far from an actual universal threat let alone an omniversal one.

what? MJJ of earth 238 was a universal threat if not more, the 616 was much more powerful which was mentioned in the mighty world of marvel volume 2 #9

Irrelevant. MJJ 238 was only a potential threat, his unverse was destroyed before there was any proof that he was a larger threat than he actually was, his power only covered Earth and some other planets in his universe. The entire universe being destroyed was overkill and due to Mandragon ignoring the protests of others, it was overkilled because the "more powerful" MJJ showed that you can stop a MJJ without destroying a universe (the neither version acutally warped). You also ignored the actual reason Merlyn makes this comment, and it's not based him acutally having power on an omniversal level only the potential to cause reality to break down on that level if left unchecked.

616 whether more powerful or not does not even have feats to rival the range of 238s power. If the only things you are going on is Merlyn saying he was a threat and that one version is more powerful than another, then remember that the Otherworlders also saw Phoenix/Rachel as such a threat and that Jean is more powerful than Rachel.

Fact, 616 MJJ although called a threat to the omniversal threat, he never acutally became one.

i know, in fact both MJJ versions were potential threats since neither of them displayed their full power.

and MJJ having the potential power to cause the omniverse to break down means he has omniversal power level.

it's stated on panel that 616 version is more powerful than the 238.

yes he didn't destroy the omniverse but the fact that he had the potential makes him one.

If you know, then you should know that he has no access to that potential, it is a gradual process that can be stopped before he even become a universal threat, just like it was stopped before.

If his power did spread to the entire omniverse it would only destroy the order of the omniverse not the acutal omniverse, he would only make it chaotic because the boundaries that define the omniverse would no longer exist, this is not proof he can wipe out concepts, as we have never seen him having the slightest control over the concepts of time or thought. This however is not something he can just pull out his reality warping bag of tricks anyway.

#35 Edited by rolldestroyer (3508 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordofallhumans:

i never said he has access to it, i only said that he has the potential to do it.

as i stated before the omniverse is literally the totality of everything, meaning everything is inside the omniverse, if the omniverse is destroyed everything dies with it. also reality warping is a power that can control and manipulate concepts, changing the laws of physics is already changing concepts.

#36 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (4199 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordofallhumans:

i never said he has access to it, i only said that he has the potential to do it.

as i stated before the omniverse is literally the totality of everything, meaning everything is inside the omniverse, if the omniverse is destroyed everything dies with it. also reality warping is a power that can control and manipulate concepts, changing the laws of physics is already changing concepts.

You said he was about to destroy the omniverse and nothing could be further from the truth. Your definition of omniverse is not what Merlyn is talking about when he is decribing the so called Omniverse in Marvel, it only includes the countless universes and the other multiverses connected to Marvel and in Marvel the LT and Phoenix exist in dimensions outside of this in their true forms, this would suggest that he will not simply end beings like them because he destroyed something physical.

You are not talking about changing concepts you are talking about erasing them. You're speculating, so I will too. His powers are thought based and he is going up against a being that can turn thought into ash, he should never even get a chance to warp reality as he has no protection against telepathy.

#37 Edited by rolldestroyer (3508 posts) - - Show Bio

@rolldestroyer said:

@lordofallhumans:

i never said he has access to it, i only said that he has the potential to do it.

as i stated before the omniverse is literally the totality of everything, meaning everything is inside the omniverse, if the omniverse is destroyed everything dies with it. also reality warping is a power that can control and manipulate concepts, changing the laws of physics is already changing concepts.

You said he was about to destroy the omniverse and nothing could be further from the truth. Your definition of omniverse is not what Merlyn is talking about when he is decribing the so called Omniverse in Marvel, it only includes the countless universes and the other multiverses connected to Marvel and in Marvel the LT and Phoenix exist in dimensions outside of this in their true forms, this would suggest that he will not simply end beings like them because he destroyed something physical.

You are not talking about changing concepts you are talking about erasing them. You're speculating, so I will too. His powers are thought based and he is going up against a being that can turn thought into ash, he should never even get a chance to warp reality as he has no protection against telepathy.

yes i said he was about to destroy it, meaning he had the potential to....

LT and phoenix dont exist outside the omniverse, unless you have proof of this. and when you say they exist in a dimension you're actually saying that they exist inside the omniverse (since all dimensions whatsoever are inside the omniverse), you also have to realize that the omniverse isn't just physical, it's every possible universe, meaning spiritual, physical or any other universe is still inside the omniverse. now you also have to understand that im not saying MJJ is anywhere near LT in terms of power.

i dont know about telepathy, i really can't counter that, but i believe reality warping could be the answer to that.

#38 Edited by LordOfAllHumans (4199 posts) - - Show Bio

@rolldestroyer said:

@lordofallhumans said:

@rolldestroyer said:

@lordofallhumans:

i never said he has access to it, i only said that he has the potential to do it.

as i stated before the omniverse is literally the totality of everything, meaning everything is inside the omniverse, if the omniverse is destroyed everything dies with it. also reality warping is a power that can control and manipulate concepts, changing the laws of physics is already changing concepts.

You said he was about to destroy the omniverse and nothing could be further from the truth. Your definition of omniverse is not what Merlyn is talking about when he is decribing the so called Omniverse in Marvel, it only includes the countless universes and the other multiverses connected to Marvel and in Marvel the LT and Phoenix exist in dimensions outside of this in their true forms, this would suggest that he will not simply end beings like them because he destroyed something physical.

You are not talking about changing concepts you are talking about erasing them. You're speculating, so I will too. His powers are thought based and he is going up against a being that can turn thought into ash, he should never even get a chance to warp reality as he has no protection against telepathy.

yes i said he was about to destroy it, meaning he had the potential to....

LT and phoenix dont exist outside the omniverse, unless you have proof of this. and when you say they exist in a dimension you're actually saying that they exist inside the omniverse (since all dimensions whatsoever are inside the omniverse), you also have to realize that the omniverse isn't just physical, it's every possible universe, meaning spiritual, physical or any other universe is still inside the omniverse. now you also have to understand that im not saying MJJ is anywhere near LT in terms of power.

i dont know about telepathy, i really can't counter that, but i believe reality warping could be the answer to that.

We was not about to detroy it, he was hardly on the verge of even destroying the planet.

The dimensions they exist in are outside of all space, time and reality those are the things that make up the Omniverse in marvel which means they are outside of it. Merlyn and his otherworldly band of omniversal protectors only deal with the physical aspects of the omniverse, I have never read anything to suggest they are also talking about places like Deaths realm, The White Hot Room or the space that LT rules, simply put if they did mean even those realms more than just a group of super powered english police would get involved.

There is nothing to suggest Jaspers can warp such things because he needs reality and those realms are beyond the known reality in terms of location.

We know he has no credible feats involving telepathy so we can deduce until something shows him overcoming it then it should work on him just fine.

#39 Posted by rolldestroyer (3508 posts) - - Show Bio

@rolldestroyer said:

@lordofallhumans said:

@rolldestroyer said:

@lordofallhumans:

i never said he has access to it, i only said that he has the potential to do it.

as i stated before the omniverse is literally the totality of everything, meaning everything is inside the omniverse, if the omniverse is destroyed everything dies with it. also reality warping is a power that can control and manipulate concepts, changing the laws of physics is already changing concepts.

You said he was about to destroy the omniverse and nothing could be further from the truth. Your definition of omniverse is not what Merlyn is talking about when he is decribing the so called Omniverse in Marvel, it only includes the countless universes and the other multiverses connected to Marvel and in Marvel the LT and Phoenix exist in dimensions outside of this in their true forms, this would suggest that he will not simply end beings like them because he destroyed something physical.

You are not talking about changing concepts you are talking about erasing them. You're speculating, so I will too. His powers are thought based and he is going up against a being that can turn thought into ash, he should never even get a chance to warp reality as he has no protection against telepathy.

yes i said he was about to destroy it, meaning he had the potential to....

LT and phoenix dont exist outside the omniverse, unless you have proof of this. and when you say they exist in a dimension you're actually saying that they exist inside the omniverse (since all dimensions whatsoever are inside the omniverse), you also have to realize that the omniverse isn't just physical, it's every possible universe, meaning spiritual, physical or any other universe is still inside the omniverse. now you also have to understand that im not saying MJJ is anywhere near LT in terms of power.

i dont know about telepathy, i really can't counter that, but i believe reality warping could be the answer to that.

We was not about to detroy it, he was hardly on the verge of even destroying the planet.

The dimensions they exist in are outside of all space, time and reality those are the things that make up the Omniverse in marvel which means they are outside of it. Merlyn and his otherworldly band of omniversal protectors only deal with the physical aspects of the omniverse, I have never read anything to suggest they are also talking about places like Deaths realm, The White Hot Room or the space that LT rules, simply put if they did mean even those realms more than just a group of super powered english police would get involved.

There is nothing to suggest Jaspers can warp such things because he needs reality and those realms are beyond the known reality in terms of location.

We know he has no credible feats involving telepathy so we can deduce until something shows him overcoming it then it should work on him just fine.

MJJ's power grows with time, to the point where he could potentially destroy the omniverse.

yes they exist beyond space and time but it isn't mentioned that the omniverse is limited to time and space only (unless you have proof). i think our debate comes to what is marvel's definition of the omniverse? i dont know any definition marvel has given in the early 1980s do you? if not it's really pointless because the omniverse is a vague term when written in comic books.

#40 Edited by LordOfAllHumans (4199 posts) - - Show Bio

@rolldestroyer said:

@lordofallhumans said:

@rolldestroyer said:

@lordofallhumans said:

@rolldestroyer said:

@lordofallhumans:

i never said he has access to it, i only said that he has the potential to do it.

as i stated before the omniverse is literally the totality of everything, meaning everything is inside the omniverse, if the omniverse is destroyed everything dies with it. also reality warping is a power that can control and manipulate concepts, changing the laws of physics is already changing concepts.

You said he was about to destroy the omniverse and nothing could be further from the truth. Your definition of omniverse is not what Merlyn is talking about when he is decribing the so called Omniverse in Marvel, it only includes the countless universes and the other multiverses connected to Marvel and in Marvel the LT and Phoenix exist in dimensions outside of this in their true forms, this would suggest that he will not simply end beings like them because he destroyed something physical.

You are not talking about changing concepts you are talking about erasing them. You're speculating, so I will too. His powers are thought based and he is going up against a being that can turn thought into ash, he should never even get a chance to warp reality as he has no protection against telepathy.

yes i said he was about to destroy it, meaning he had the potential to....

LT and phoenix dont exist outside the omniverse, unless you have proof of this. and when you say they exist in a dimension you're actually saying that they exist inside the omniverse (since all dimensions whatsoever are inside the omniverse), you also have to realize that the omniverse isn't just physical, it's every possible universe, meaning spiritual, physical or any other universe is still inside the omniverse. now you also have to understand that im not saying MJJ is anywhere near LT in terms of power.

i dont know about telepathy, i really can't counter that, but i believe reality warping could be the answer to that.

We was not about to detroy it, he was hardly on the verge of even destroying the planet.

The dimensions they exist in are outside of all space, time and reality those are the things that make up the Omniverse in marvel which means they are outside of it. Merlyn and his otherworldly band of omniversal protectors only deal with the physical aspects of the omniverse, I have never read anything to suggest they are also talking about places like Deaths realm, The White Hot Room or the space that LT rules, simply put if they did mean even those realms more than just a group of super powered english police would get involved.

There is nothing to suggest Jaspers can warp such things because he needs reality and those realms are beyond the known reality in terms of location.

We know he has no credible feats involving telepathy so we can deduce until something shows him overcoming it then it should work on him just fine.

MJJ's power grows with time, to the point where he could potentially destroy the omniverse.

yes they exist beyond space and time but it isn't mentioned that the omniverse is limited to time and space only (unless you have proof). i think our debate comes to what is marvel's definition of the omniverse? i dont know any definition marvel has given in the early 1980s do you? if not it's really pointless because the omniverse is a vague term when written in comic books.

I know how his powers work and in a battle nobody is gonna let that much time pass, which is why mentioning him and the omniverse does not mean much in these threads.

the omniverse is limited to reality, they exist outside of that too, if there is no reality the way it is physically defined then he can't warp it. To sugegest otherwise would basically being saying he can even erase TOAA, as he would exist within the Omniverse the way you are defining it.

They only seem to have used multiverse and omniverse interchangably IMO in an attempt to make threats against it sound that much bigger. Just like they upgraded from Earth, to galaxy to universe etc..., it's artistic licence unless you believe he can warp the "real omniverse" which would include you and I :)

#41 Edited by rolldestroyer (3508 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordofallhumans:

yeah, well im assuming he's at the peak of his power when it comes to his threads.

yes it was shown that without reality he loses his reality warping powers because well........there's no reality.

it depends in what year, in the last decade or so marvel started giving definitions for the omniverse as being much more than a multiverse, though back in the 80s it didn't so i assume they were used interchangeably.

#42 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (4199 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordofallhumans:

yeah, well im assuming he's at the peak of his power when it comes to his threads.

yes it was shown that without reality he loses his reality warping powers because well........there's no reality.

it depends in what year, in the last decade or so marvel started giving definitions for the omniverse as being much more than a multiverse, though back in the 80s it didn't so i assume they were used interchangeably.

his peak would be what we have been shown and 616 at the peak of his power before dying was only warping Great Britain, if we were to start a battle with him having his power over the omniverse there would be no need to include him in a battle. The nature of his power means he can only warp the omniverse because he has already secured the omniverse in his warp, if this battle happens outside of his omniverse then there he would still have to wait for his warp to spread even if he came to the battle with his entire omniverse under his control.

#43 Posted by rolldestroyer (3508 posts) - - Show Bio
#44 Posted by JackKnight (2969 posts) - - Show Bio

Mad Jim Jaspers wrecks.

#45 Edited by rolldestroyer (3508 posts) - - Show Bio

@rolldestroyer said:

@lordofallhumans:

yeah, well im assuming he's at the peak of his power when it comes to his threads.

yes it was shown that without reality he loses his reality warping powers because well........there's no reality.

it depends in what year, in the last decade or so marvel started giving definitions for the omniverse as being much more than a multiverse, though back in the 80s it didn't so i assume they were used interchangeably.

his peak would be what we have been shown and 616 at the peak of his power before dying was only warping Great Britain, if we were to start a battle with him having his power over the omniverse there would be no need to include him in a battle. The nature of his power means he can only warp the omniverse because he has already secured the omniverse in his warp, if this battle happens outside of his omniverse then there he would still have to wait for his warp to spread even if he came to the battle with his entire omniverse under his control.

if the battle happened outside the omniverse then MJJ wouldn't even have powers.

#46 Edited by LordOfAllHumans (4199 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordofallhumans:

just to give you the evidence, here is marvel's definition of omniverse in 2005 (credit goes to @killemall)

All that shows is that he cannot possibly be a real threat to the omniverse because he is not a threat to you and I. This seems to prove that when Marvel was/is using Omniverse that they are using it wrong, and on panel evidence is proof that even when they say omniverse they usually only mean multiverse as we are only seeing all the universes in the main marvel continuity being affected.

#47 Posted by rolldestroyer (3508 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordofallhumans:

i agree, i was just giving you the definition marvel gave to the omniverse. and obviously no fictional character can affect the "real omniverse".

#48 Edited by LordOfAllHumans (4199 posts) - - Show Bio

@rolldestroyer said:
@lordofallhumans said:

@rolldestroyer said:

@lordofallhumans:

yeah, well im assuming he's at the peak of his power when it comes to his threads.

yes it was shown that without reality he loses his reality warping powers because well........there's no reality.

it depends in what year, in the last decade or so marvel started giving definitions for the omniverse as being much more than a multiverse, though back in the 80s it didn't so i assume they were used interchangeably.

his peak would be what we have been shown and 616 at the peak of his power before dying was only warping Great Britain, if we were to start a battle with him having his power over the omniverse there would be no need to include him in a battle. The nature of his power means he can only warp the omniverse because he has already secured the omniverse in his warp, if this battle happens outside of his omniverse then there he would still have to wait for his warp to spread even if he came to the battle with his entire omniverse under his control.

if the battle happened outside the omniverse then MJJ wouldn't even have powers.

but according to you there is no outside the omniverse, which is the logic you use to claim he can erase concepts. When I say 'his omniverse" I'm going by what Marvel means when they say it on panel (and they simply use the term wrong when creating "omniversal threats", since they are not really talking about the omniverse proper he would have power outside of marvel as long as he was transported to place where reality is.

@jackknight said:

Mad Jim Jaspers wrecks.

Not really, if Blink and some mutants can put him down while merged with the Fury, Dark Phoenix should have no trouble. He has absolutely nothing to counter her telepathy.

#49 Posted by rolldestroyer (3508 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordofallhumans:

yes, nothing exists outside the omniverse (of marvel), so when MJJ goes to the nothingness there isn't concepts he can manipulate, and thus he is powerless.

#50 Edited by LordOfAllHumans (4199 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordofallhumans:

yes, nothing exists outside the omniverse (of marvel), so when MJJ goes to the nothingness there isn't concepts he can manipulate, and thus he is powerless.

The real omniverse exists outside of the Marvel concept, so he can be taken outside of his "omniverse" and warp reality as long as he wasn't transported to a void realm where reality doesn't exist by our definition. Unspace, theplace he was taken to be killed by the Fury is a Marvel construct, but by the strictest definition of the omniverse could not possibly exist within the marvel omniverse (multiverse) because there is no reality, so it would not be mapped as such. I'm speaking as if he was transported out of marvel into lets say , DC, where there is plenty of reality not dependent on the Marvel "omniverse".