Mace Windu vs Darth Plageuis

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LuckyStrike

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#1  Edited By LuckyStrike

Mace discovers the Sith's plan to control the senate and with his beloved republic in danger of ruin, he feels the darkness inside him grow exponentially. With this amp he confronts Plageuis in Palpatine's office.

in short, he gets the same amp he did against Sidious, with the ability to syphon his opponents dark power and even sense his shatterpoint.

Can Mace finish this?

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hatemalingsia

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Mace Windu.

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deactivated-5e8a1f5fafc4e

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Plagueis ragdolls him

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juiceboks

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#4  Edited By juiceboks  Moderator

Plagueis 10/10.

@hatemalingsia said:

Mace Windu.

How? The only advantage Mace MIGHT have here is lightsaber skill..he's inferior in everything else especially Force Power by a rather large margin.

EDIT: Didn't see the amp..still loses but he puts up a better fight I guess.

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ShootingNova

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Plagueis ragdolls him

Which he doesn't do in a morals-on setting.

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DarthManhunter

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Plagueis, in a good fight.

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LuckyStrike

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@shootingnova: I don't care Windu dies

No tears ILS, I know you don't like Windu but raisins need to be provided for your strong favour of Hego in this match.

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deactivated-5e8a1f5fafc4e

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I know you don't like Windu but raisins need to be provided

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KingAres109

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Plagueis has morals??

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LuckyStrike

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ShootingNova

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GeorgeWBush

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#13  Edited By GeorgeWBush

Morals only restricts his violent use of applications of telekinesis, not the fact he can still send him flying with a force push or block his attacks defensively.

Evenly restricted Plagueis is still considerably faster, more powerful, physically stronger, and more durable.

Plagueis still kills him

The OP didn't designate morals on, did he?

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ShootingNova

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#14  Edited By ShootingNova

@burnface: No, morals prevents him from simply opting to ragdoll an opponent. He never displayed (or attempted to display) anything of the sorts against Venamis (in fact, the one time he employed telekinesis was to snap a tree branch).

How is Plagueis considerably faster than the iteration of Mace who fought Palpatine? And yes, I know that the stipulations are outrageous and impossible, but I don't debate with or about the OP's stipulations anymore.

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deactivated-5bfd5d714c687

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I can see it going either way but I'm leaning towards mace. Plagueis is not near Mace's skill in terms of the saber. With the amp I think Mace could take this.

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DarthManhunter

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#16  Edited By DarthManhunter

I dont believe he is faster than Mace at least not considerably, although I dont know all of Maces speed feats, but what I do remember is lots of them being applied with his lightsaber/reactions.

I believe Plagueis is superior in force usage/application, He does have some pretty cool showings in his self titled book which I just completed (awesome btw). When his kills Tenebrous, vs. The Assassins, Vs. Venamis. I still believe this would be a decent match with or without Mace's amp. With Plagueis coming out on top for a majority 7-8/10

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Xaijinn

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Unlimited power!! (mace dies)

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LuckyStrike

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#18  Edited By LuckyStrike

I think it's hard for even the agenda driven debaters to argue that Plagueis is the superior duelist in this situation. I'm not going to shame anyone too heavily but when you create a blog with the intention of calling out fanboys : http://www.comicvine.com/profile/i_like_swords/lists/top-5-star-wars-characters-with-the-worst-fanbase/55001/, labeling Mace Windu's fanbase the No.1 offenders with no explanation, it could damage your credibility in future discussions involving him.

@i_like_swords Your responses do exactly that, and even your reason for a Plagueis victory is transparent. When I created this thread I did it so the disparity between speed is closed, and so far that's the only major advantage Hego has in terms of a straight up duel. I'm not going to disregard his strength feats, being able to punch through humanoid flesh and bone is impressive, but I feel as if Mace has already matched those feats on Dantoine smashing through droid armies with his bare fists.

I know you don't think Hego is on Maces level of skill, simply because there is nothing to suggest he is. He's only been in a few fights, only 1 being against an opposing force sensitive, Venamis being featless before the engagement was still Plaguis' lightsaber superior "forcing" Hego to change tactics to defeat him in their fight. Pun intended... The only accolade he's received in this area is Tenebrous claiming him to be a master of lightsaber combat, while this does carry some weight considering who it's from it's still a vague designation as Plagueis lived in an era of Master Duelists. Darth Plaguies' fighting style isn't confirmed in any sources, but evidence strongly implies that it's Niman. The lack of focus of the style might put him at a disadvantage when defending against the randomized and unpredictable strikes of Vapaad, and when you factor in Windu's superior skill level, more impressive accolades, the massive amp he gets and shatterpoint, then in a duel you have a clear victor.

Plagueis does have superior power and a deeper knowledge of the force, it would come in to play but won't win him a majority as the deciding factor for most SW battles is usually in lightsaber dueling.

Mace Windu 6/10

@shootingnova said:

How is Plagueis considerably faster than the iteration of Mace who fought Palpatine? And yes, I know that the stipulations are outrageous and impossible, but I don't debate with or about the OP's stipulations anymore.

I provided a realistic scenario that makes this fight fair. I don't care if you don't like it as I haven't given anything Mace hasn't shown.

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deactivated-5e8a1f5fafc4e

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And this thread is now bookmarked. Fantastic.

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Jacthripper

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Plagueis wins, but it's not a stomp

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DarthManhunter

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Here we go again..

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LuckyStrike

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#22  Edited By LuckyStrike
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DarthManhunter

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"AGENDA" lmao yes people who comment on Star Wars threads on a comics website have a clear agenda. No, people like to debate and discuss Star Wars man. Its really that simple. Maybe you should look in the mirror.

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@darthmanhunter: I wouldn't even address anything he says at this point. Just let him do his thing lol.

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LuckyStrike

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@darthmanhunter: I wouldn't even address anything he says at this point. Just let him do his thing lol.

Please enlighten me, what is my 'thing' ?

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Mije_101

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Mace with the amp he had during ROTS?

Plagueis loses.

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DarthManhunter

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TheVivas

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Plagueis

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spartankobe

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Mace stomps

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Caseiden

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#30  Edited By Caseiden

I believe Mace is determined to destroy Plagueis at all costs here.

They fight a long duel. I think 10 minutes. Mace Windu overpowering Plagueis, he is better skilled, we can see he is better and he is going to brutally kill Plagueis. Plagueis uses the Force like a brutal, mindless animal he is, but Mace ends up taking the damage. He screams like animal in great pain, he suffers so much, but he continues to duel and Plagueis tries to use Force again. He gives some damage to Mace but he close the distance again. This time Plagueis has no time for the Force. Mace cuts both hands of Plaguies off. He screams so much it his hurtful to listen to his screaming, and angered Mace covered in blood screams even higher to let go of his pain and battle rage, he puts Plagueis on a floor and Plagueis begins to cry for mercy. Bloodlusted Mace, heavy breathing, he stomps his head in most brutal death 8/10. 2/10 Plagueis Force gets luck.

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HellSpawn32

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Mace Windu wins. Im sorry but you guys are underestimating mace windu's force ability. I'm not at all saying he is better than his opponent with it. But it is good enough to close the Gap between them. If this gets close(which it will) mace stomps hard in a light saber duel. Mace is probably the most skilled light saber duelist EVER

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Caseiden

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@hellspawn32: You talk to me? I already explained how Mace will murder Plagueis very hard

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NinjaWarrior268

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#33  Edited By NinjaWarrior268

As Sidious' older but inferior mentor, I think Mace would win most if not 75% of the time

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kbroskywalker

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bump

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Necromancer76

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Plagueis. Mace was amped to high hell and Sidious tried to lose in their fight. If Plagueis goes all out, he'd beat Mace with the Force pretty quickly.

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deactivated-5a98875cd0f94

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Baseline Mace gets his lightsaber shoved into his face.

Amped Mace could win, but I still think Plagueis would take it. In a close bout.

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kbroskywalker

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#38  Edited By kbroskywalker

Lets try this again...

BUMP!

Mace takes this. There's no reason to think Mace's inner darkness boost was a one-time thing. Especially when earlier in the novel, we see that Mace has retained the inner darkness he received from the war:

Obi-Wan's heart clenched. This was not the Mace Windu he knew and admired; it was as though the darkness in the Force was so much thicker here on Coruscant that it had breathed poison into Mace's spirit, and perhaps was even breeding suspicion and dissension among the members of the Jedi Council.

The greatest danger from the darkness outside came when Jedi fed it with the darkness within.

He had feared he might find matters had deteriorated when he returned to Coruscant and the Temple; not even in his darkest dreams had he thought it would get this bad.

ROTS(@lordofthelight)

In other words, Mace can replicate what he did to Sidious against Plagueis and form a supercounducting loop that allows him to replicate his speed/power.

Additionally, regardless of your take on Vapaad, Mace can factually compete with ROTS Sidious in an all out bout per word of god. I see little reason to think Plagueis could say the same given he's a "gravitic shift" away from even TPM Sidious.

At a minimum, it should prevent Plagueis from avoiding a duel via force use which leads to Mace, the dude bordering on Sids, Anakin, and Yoda's level, getting the win.

Feel free to disagree:

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Azronger

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Windu wins.

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sirfizzwhizz

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Mace wins the heavy majority.

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deactivated-59c0eef934dfe

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Plagueis, and it's not close.

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kbroskywalker

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Plagueis, and it's not close.

Because he's Yoda level?

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EmperorxHadesx420

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Lol

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LordOfTheLight

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Probably Plagueis. Mace is his rival in terms of sheer power, and his probable superior in lightsaber skill. But Plagueis has access to arcane techniques, and power which I don't believe Mace has a defense for. He wins a minority though.

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kbroskywalker

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Probably Plagueis. Mace is his rival in terms of sheer power, and his probable superior in lightsaber skill. But Plagueis has access to arcane techniques, and power which I don't believe Mace has a defense for. He wins a minority though.

Wouldn't Vapaad's loop hinder or negate his use of such techniques?

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LordOfTheLight

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@lordofthelight said:

Probably Plagueis. Mace is his rival in terms of sheer power, and his probable superior in lightsaber skill. But Plagueis has access to arcane techniques, and power which I don't believe Mace has a defense for. He wins a minority though.

Wouldn't Vapaad's loop hinder or negate his use of such techniques?

I don't see any evidence for it.

Actually, I am reconsidering it, if we can accept certain assumptions. I am not sure how much sorcery will affect Mace. You require two things for nullifying sorcery, one of them is just sheer willpower, which Mace has in abundance. But willpower goes only to some extent. It is useful for negating illusions, projections etc. Not effects of sorcery that are tangible, and manifest as various kinds of dark power. The other is force light. Now I am very well aware that Mace hasn't displayed force light, but on the other hand, Obi Wan has. And has used it to a tremendous effect too, repelling the power of a Banite nexus.

Here is the thing. If we are to assume that Mace too has knowledge of force light, that if we assume that his knowledge transcends that of Obi Wan's( which in my opinion is a reasonable assumption, given the holistic portrayal of Mace relative to Obi Wan), he can negate Plagueis's sorcery well enough( since his power in force light will obviously be greater than that of Obi Wan's, assuming he has it).

It is a big assumption though, but not an unreasonable one.

Another thing is, people give hype to Bane and other Sith Lords for obtaining holocrons, and knowledge about the dark side of the force from ancient texts, and maintaining an archive of such knowledge, but what about the Jedi in the PT era?

By this time, the Jedi Order's knowledge base would be the highest it ever was. The Jedi Order's library was the single biggest information bank in the entire galaxy, the Jedi vaults had troves and troves of holocrons ransacked across millennia from various Sith sites accumulated, the Jedi would have holocrons of their own ancient Masters( like Arca Jeth, Thon, Vodo Siosk Baas, Ood Bnar, Odan Urr) etc. not to mention, holocrons of Masters like Yoda himself. The collective knowledge of the entire order's 25 millennia of history would be available to the Jedi Masters in the PT era, particularly to masters like Mace and Obi Wan( the latter of whom has studied devastating techniques like force light before even being appointed to the Council). Which really leads me to believe that the knowledge available to Mace and what he would have studied would be sufficient enough to counter most arcane techniques.

This is another assumption, but as I said before, not an unreasonable one.

So currently I am on the fence about this. It is a toss up between what we know as fact, and what should be true, by basic common sense.

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noobsnowman

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#47 noobsnowman  Online

Plageuis ragdolls.

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LordOfTheLight

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Kek.

The times when Mace used to be some kind of fodder to Yoda or Sidious are long gone.

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noobsnowman

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#49  Edited By noobsnowman  Online

He still is, though.

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@kbroskywalker: ^

And yes, he is Yoda-tier. Not equal, but on the same level.