#1 Posted by Power NeXus (9899 posts) - - Show Bio

Dooku is perfectly prepared to kill Master Windu. Windu prefers that Dooku live, but will resort to lethal mesures if necessary. The fight takes place in the Jedi Temple, but no other Jedi are around.
Who is the more skilled force-user and lightsaber duelist?

#2 Posted by Push (1552 posts) - - Show Bio

There both very good, but i'd give the edge to Mace with his Vaapid.  He did defeat the Emperor, too, who>Dooku obviously, and yeah, I know alot of people will say "the emperor feigned/let himself be in that position, but until it's actually shown/proven, then it's just opinion.

#3 Posted by Static Shock (47329 posts) - - Show Bio
Push said:
"I know alot of people will say "the emperor feigned/let himself be in that position, but until it's actually shown/proven, then it's just opinion."
I hate when people say that. They ride that statement as if it's truth, but there's nothing in the movie that proves this. Mace would have killed him if Anakin didn't interfere. Before his arrival, he was already winning.
#4 Posted by claws (5061 posts) - - Show Bio

i think mace would win

#5 Posted by Triumphant (2316 posts) - - Show Bio

Mace

#6 Posted by Dane (10596 posts) - - Show Bio

Mace Windu's a bad motherf@#!er

#7 Posted by Braise (1284 posts) - - Show Bio

Dooku engaged Mace, and was being outmaneuvered by Mace until he called his Magnaguards on him, according to the summaries I've read of Star Wars: Obsession. They're pretty even.

Oh, what the heck, I'll go with Mace.

#8 Posted by Vrakmul (23473 posts) - - Show Bio

The only three people who have ever matched Windu in sword fighting are Yoda, Anakin, and Grievous, and Grievous has four light sabers, can attack 68 times per second.  Darth Tyrannus most certainly cannot.  

#9 Posted by SwaggaB0y (5262 posts) - - Show Bio

Dooku

#10 Posted by jloneblackheart (5507 posts) - - Show Bio

Mace Windu

Moderator
#11 Posted by SUNMAN (7228 posts) - - Show Bio

Mace Windu, he is the best with a lightsaber ever, and his force powers are top notch. He is up there with Yoda and Dark Sidius, and He is better than them with a lightsaber

#12 Posted by John Valentine (16307 posts) - - Show Bio

Mace.

#13 Posted by Jameosaurus (18 posts) - - Show Bio

Mace takes it as easily as he took down the Emperor.

#14 Posted by Push (1552 posts) - - Show Bio
Dreadnaught said:
"The only three people who have ever matched Windu in sword fighting are Yoda, Anakin, and Grievous, and Grievous has four light sabers, can attack 68 times per second.  Darth Tyrannus most certainly cannot.   "

Well, to be fair, it was actually Darth Tyranus who recruited and trained Grievous, and it's been established that Dooku & Sidious are Grievous superiors, so Dooku>Grievous easily, cause Dooku is actually Grievies's master and taught him all he knows, so Dooku would own Grievous, cause Dooku is far superior in the Force than grievous ever will be, no matter hower far he gets with his skill,  as would Windu, in the end :-)
#15 Posted by NakedSushi (2 posts) - - Show Bio

Actually Dreadnaught thats not entirely true. Yoda himself made this comment of Count Dooku.

Furthermore only two Jedi have ever bested Windu. Guess who they are, yep ...Yoda and Dooku. Also Anakin is good mind you, one of the best, but he's no match for Yoda, Sidious, or Tyranus. Dooku wasn't trying to kill Anakin ever and he could have quite easily. The first reason is simple his powers are far greater. He could simply have choked him. Keep in mind that he was no Sith master only an apprentice. Lastly, Dooku was more than a match for Sidious as well. This is a fact that Sidious understood well as he had no intention of ever challenging Dooku outright. It might prove bad for his health. Dooku beat Windu, Windu beat Sidious, Sidious servived Yoda.

The Sad part is that Dooku believed himself to be the chosen one. I would argue that he is simply an older mirror image of Anakin himself. They both strove to be the best and achieved it. And both end up corrupted because of their desire for power and the ability to use it as they see fit. 


Lastly, the Force is alway's in balance. And everyone has a counter part.  checkout my website if you guys like to know more about Naked Sushi
http://www.theartofsushi.info
 
#16 Posted by Wonder_Teen (5 posts) - - Show Bio

Mace

#17 Posted by Emerald_General_Jai (2306 posts) - - Show Bio

Mace, what was done to the Master can be done to the Apprentice.

#18 Posted by Mortein (2826 posts) - - Show Bio
Emerald_General_Jai said:
"Mace, what was done to the Master can be done to the Apprentice. "
I was always wondering, what if Sidius has lost purposely so that Anakin must save him.
#19 Posted by High Revolutionary (3166 posts) - - Show Bio

Lets not forget that Windu took out Palpatine rather quickly in EPIII, but Yoda failed.  If both are at their peak, Windu destroys Dooku in a few short strokes. 

#20 Edited by NakedSushi (2 posts) - - Show Bio

Remember that Windu is in his Prime. He can see and use shatter points, he's the temples Lightsaber master, and Vapaad can nullify most of the darkside effects. He would eventually defeat Sidious. He needed Anakin's help. Just imagine if it was Dooku instead of Anakin saving the Chancellor. Dooku was to far a powerful an ally to keep around, he would eventially betray him. Anakin's at least controlable.

Betrayal is the ultimate fear of all Sith, as such thier decisions are rulled by it. 

Yoda is the Jedi's Grand Master and he's ancient.  By the way he was winning, he had disarmed Sidious and was within a fraction of a second of killing him and he knew it. All Sidious had to do was to outlast him while reinforcements arrived. As SUCH IT WAS A DRAW.

The real fight would be Windu vs. Dooku- Dooku has beaten him before without the darkside as an ally. This would be one of those ugly drawn out fights like Anakin vs Obi Wan. It be awesome to see. The same could be said for the other fights as well. The longer the fight lasts, the more likely Windu would prevail.

Another awesome fight would be Dooku vs Sidious. Dooku calls him his master but he never really means it. He never bows to Sidious, he considers himself to be his equal, if not greater than him. Remember that later Sidious will lose again to Darth Vader apprentice. So he's more than beatable.


Lastly, it could be argued that Windu was in fact not the orders greatest lightsaber duelist his old apprentice was. Master Depa Bilaba was a better fighter than him and Windu even says so.




#21 Posted by Kurrent (14067 posts) - - Show Bio

Mace

#22 Posted by Legend.Killah (143 posts) - - Show Bio

Mace Windu would head-butt him and then cut him in half

#23 Posted by Winduizcool (775 posts) - - Show Bio

Mace Windu. He has Vaapad, Juyo, Shatterpoint, and Force crush. Not to mention the best Jedi Duelist of the Old Republic.

#24 Posted by Morpheus_ (29873 posts) - - Show Bio



















Ultimate Nick Fury's long, lost brother takes this.
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#25 Posted by G-w-D (547 posts) - - Show Bio
@NakedSushi said:
"Actually Dreadnaught thats not entirely true. Yoda himself made this comment of Count Dooku.
Furthermore only two Jedi have ever bested Windu. Guess who they are, yep ...Yoda and Dooku. Also Anakin is good mind you, one of the best, but he's no match for Yoda, Sidious, or Tyranus. Dooku wasn't trying to kill Anakin ever and he could have quite easily. The first reason is simple his powers are far greater. He could simply have choked him. Keep in mind that he was no Sith master only an apprentice. Lastly, Dooku was more than a match for Sidious as well. This is a fact that Sidious understood well as he had no intention of ever challenging Dooku outright. It might prove bad for his health. Dooku beat Windu, Windu beat Sidious, Sidious servived Yoda.

The Sad part is that Dooku believed himself to be the chosen one. I would argue that he is simply an older mirror image of Anakin himself. They both strove to be the best and achieved it. And both end up corrupted because of their desire for power and the ability to use it as they see fit. 


Lastly, the Force is alway's in balance. And everyone has a counter part.  checkout my website if you guys like to know more about Naked Sushi
http://www.theartofsushi.info
 
"

This isn't a Dooku vs Anakin thread so i won't get into it, thats complete speculation on lyour part the Novelisation for ROTS has Dooku thinking how much Anakin is a threat to be feared  
#26 Posted by Winduizcool (775 posts) - - Show Bio

I just have two questions. When exactly did Dooku beat Windu and how?

#27 Posted by LordCosmicKing (2629 posts) - - Show Bio

sammy for the win here

#28 Posted by MadComics (270 posts) - - Show Bio

Someone answer this question: If Mace never did attack Sidious and sidious did the Order 66 thing, would Mace have survived the Order 66? 
 
And Mace Windu would win. :)
#29 Posted by Edamame (28080 posts) - - Show Bio
@MadComics said:
" Someone answer this question: If Mace never did attack Sidious and sidious did the Order 66 thing, would Mace have survived the Order 66?
Probably. He would have been battling with Yoda and Obi-Wan Kenobi at his side. After all he was the most powerful and skilled Jedi right behind Yoda. 
#30 Posted by Fetts (4449 posts) - - Show Bio
Mace Windu.
#31 Posted by departed402 (549 posts) - - Show Bio
#32 Posted by Edamame (28080 posts) - - Show Bio
#33 Posted by CaptainMarvelThunder (1028 posts) - - Show Bio

@vrakmul: Dooku is more of a threat than Grievious. Does Grievous even have any real victories in the movie (and isn't he known for being underhanded most of the time to obtain victories).

#34 Posted by i_like_swords (13960 posts) - - Show Bio

Flip a coin - they're even. Only the slightest of edges could go to Dooku due to the fact he has beaten Mace Windu before in a sparring match, and because he's better with Force powers. However, you can assume that Mace would have won some of those sparring matches himself since they were considered equals, and stuff like lightning won't be of much consequence because Mace can absorb it with his lightsaber. Like I said - it's a dead split.

#35 Edited by dccomicsrule2011 (24107 posts) - - Show Bio

Dooku takes the majority.

While they're equal in dueling prowess, I say Dooku is more powerful in the Force via feats and has been hailed as one of the most powerful Force sensitives ever.

Online
#36 Posted by XiiX (8023 posts) - - Show Bio

Not sure. Rooting for Count Dooku though.

#37 Posted by PapiNacho (2377 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Dooku is more skilled, but Windu should have the advantage here, due to vaapad and shatterpoints.

#38 Posted by dondave (36503 posts) - - Show Bio

Dooku

#39 Posted by Bane_of_sith (2796 posts) - - Show Bio

I'd think they each could take 5/10,,,dooku might have an advantage in force power but since windu invented his own fighting style it may be harder to predict so either way it's a close fight,,I'd say they're very evenly matched

#40 Posted by ShootingNova (16238 posts) - - Show Bio

This is not a dead even split. Dooku is perfectly even with Windu in skill, is faster, and much more powerful. Vaapad and Shatterpoint are non-factors which only benefit him against fodder; Mace was unable to prevent himself from losing to Kar Vastor.

#41 Posted by CaptainMarvelThunder (1028 posts) - - Show Bio

They seem to be pretty even to me. Fights between most of the main Jedi in the movies could go either way in my opinion. Personally I lean toward Dooku winning (but it really isn't much).

#42 Posted by Skaddix (3114 posts) - - Show Bio

@shootingnova: True enough for the most part although Kar one through superior raw power in the force not unlike how Anakin ran over Dooku with a display of raw power and aggression.

#43 Posted by silentbat (222 posts) - - Show Bio

Dooku by an extremely slight margin. 5.5/10

Mace's Vaapad would be mute, as Dooku was very cold and calm in his use of the dark side. Also his Shatterpoint ability was cloudy and vague.

Physical

I think they are on par, especially if Mace relies on Vaapad, which he should because it is his best form and he would need his best against Dooku. However, Vaapad was an extremely taxing form of lightsaber combat, while Makashi was extremely energy efficient. If Mace were to fall back on one of the other forms I think Dooku would have even more of an advantage on him. But Dooku is much older than Mace and though he does well with force augmentation he is still breaching ninty years of age.

Force

Again, they are on par. Dooku has Force Lightning, powerful TK and Force Cloak (to hide his signature from Vaapad's dark-side channeling).

Mace has got pretty good TK as well. He's got shatterpoint, but that's inconsistent and vague.

Dueling

I say the slight egde goes to Dooku here. Mace's Vaapad, while fast and ferocious, would be nothing new to Dooku. However, neither would Dooku's Makashi. The main difference between the two is that Makashi is more precise and energy efficient, while Vaapad was taxing and broad. Dooku could has shown skill against unorthodox attacks as he would spar with Grevious constantly. I don't think anything Mace could muster would surprise him as much as one of Grevious' crazy strikes.

#44 Posted by ShootingNova (16238 posts) - - Show Bio

Dooku for 6-7/10. Faster, roughly as skilful, noticeably more powerful. Mace's capacity to rival Dooku in raw skill and non-speed physical traits is sufficient for him to present a challenge to Dooku every time and afford him the win several times.

#45 Posted by silentbat (222 posts) - - Show Bio

Just a question. Where is there direct reference of Dooku' power over Windu's (in regards to Force abilities, that is).

#46 Edited by jantjepeter (126 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump

#47 Posted by jantjepeter (126 posts) - - Show Bio

@shootingnova: @silentbat:

Mace Windu wins .

I think we should rely ourselves on the real cannon which are the tv movies and series .

''The highest level of Star Wars canon consists of the six released Star Wars theatrical feature films, along with the Star Wars animated film and television series The Clone Wars. The upcoming feature film Star Wars Episode VII (along with Episode VIII and Episode IX) along with the upcoming television series Star Wars Rebels are also considered to be of the highest canon.''

'' The Star Wars Expanded Universe, on the other hand, is often reordered in levels of canonicity and time placement to make way for changes in the higher levels of canon.[1] ''

I have 3 proofing points that Windu > Dooku .

1 ) Anakin cuts of Dooku's arms in the beginning of Rots means Dooku couldn't overpower Anakin, because Dooku would NEVER let anyone cut off his arms , we can assume Dooku did all he could there .

Also did he ask Sidious, what if Anakin beats me ?

So clearly Dooku would do his best from the beginning as he was scared Anakin might win from him .

So Dooku does lose here from Anakin .

And we know the 2 end battles are clearly not on the same level .

If obi-wan could not take on the sith lord , but he could take on Anakin ( according to Yoda ), than that means Dooku was on Anakin's / Kenobi's level .

And Windu overpowered the Sith Lord in Rots ( mentioned by George Lucas ).

Windu > Dooku

2 )

Sidious equals Yoda in the end battle . ( Or atleast Sidious hold his own for a while )

Yoda clearly overpowered Dooku in Aotc ( Dooku did NOT hold his own for as long as Sidious )

Means Sidious > Dooku .

And Windu overpowered the Sith Lord in Rots ( mentioned by George Lucas ).

Windu > Dooku

3 )

Dooku lost from Anakin .

Sidious mentioned on the end of Rots, '' soon Anakin will become stronger than any of us'' against Yoda, means anakin is not yet as strong Sidious or Yoda .

Means Dooku is not as strong as Sidious because Dooku lost from Anakin .

And Windu overpowered the Sith Lord in Rots ( mentioned by George Lucas ).

May i remind again the following :

''The highest level of Star Wars canon consists of the six released Star Wars theatrical feature films, along with the Star Wars animated film and television series The Clone Wars. The upcoming feature film Star Wars Episode VII (along with Episode VIII and Episode IX) along with the upcoming television series Star Wars Rebels are also considered to be of the highest canon.''

'' The Star Wars Expanded Universe, on the other hand, is often reordered in levels of canonicity and time placement to make way for changes in the higher levels of canon.[1] ''

This means that George Lucas saying Windu overpowered Sidious is the new storyline, and the EU has to adjust to what he has said.

So Windu > Dooku

#48 Edited by SpartanKobe (517 posts) - - Show Bio

@shootingnova: @silentbat:

Mace Windu wins .

I think we should rely ourselves on the real cannon which are the tv movies and series .

''The highest level of Star Wars canon consists of the six released Star Wars theatrical feature films, along with the Star Wars animated film and television series The Clone Wars. The upcoming feature film Star Wars Episode VII (along with Episode VIII and Episode IX) along with the upcoming television series Star Wars Rebels are also considered to be of the highest canon.''

'' The Star Wars Expanded Universe, on the other hand, is often reordered in levels of canonicity and time placement to make way for changes in the higher levels of canon.[1] ''

I have 3 proofing points that Windu > Dooku .

1 ) Anakin cuts of Dooku's arms in the beginning of Rots means Dooku couldn't overpower Anakin, because Dooku would NEVER let anyone cut off his arms , we can assume Dooku did all he could there .

Also did he ask Sidious, what if Anakin beats me ?

So clearly Dooku would do his best from the beginning as he was scared Anakin might win from him .

So Dooku does lose here from Anakin .

And we know the 2 end battles are clearly not on the same level .

If obi-wan could not take on the sith lord , but he could take on Anakin ( according to Yoda ), than that means Dooku was on Anakin's / Kenobi's level .

And Windu overpowered the Sith Lord in Rots ( mentioned by George Lucas ).

Windu > Dooku

2 )

Sidious equals Yoda in the end battle . ( Or atleast Sidious hold his own for a while )

Yoda clearly overpowered Dooku in Aotc ( Dooku did NOT hold his own for as long as Sidious )

Means Sidious > Dooku .

And Windu overpowered the Sith Lord in Rots ( mentioned by George Lucas ).

Windu > Dooku

3 )

Dooku lost from Anakin .

Sidious mentioned on the end of Rots, '' soon Anakin will become stronger than any of us'' against Yoda, means anakin is not yet as strong Sidious or Yoda .

Means Dooku is not as strong as Sidious because Dooku lost from Anakin .

And Windu overpowered the Sith Lord in Rots ( mentioned by George Lucas ).

May i remind again the following :

''The highest level of Star Wars canon consists of the six released Star Wars theatrical feature films, along with the Star Wars animated film and television series The Clone Wars. The upcoming feature film Star Wars Episode VII (along with Episode VIII and Episode IX) along with the upcoming television series Star Wars Rebels are also considered to be of the highest canon.''

'' The Star Wars Expanded Universe, on the other hand, is often reordered in levels of canonicity and time placement to make way for changes in the higher levels of canon.[1] ''

This means that George Lucas saying Windu overpowered Sidious is the new storyline, and the EU has to adjust to what he has said.

So Windu > Dooku

Was there a reason for you to double post? lol

#49 Edited by jantjepeter (126 posts) - - Show Bio

Lol sorry i forgot to add your names so made new one and copy pasted and forgot to delete previous one .