Mace Windu & Count Dooku VS Darth Vader & Exar Kun

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LuckyStrike

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#1  Edited By LuckyStrike

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Rules

  • ROTS Mace Windu & TCW Dooku VS ROTJ Darth Vader & Exar Kun in Tales of The Jedi : The Sith War 5 (Basically all in prime)
  • All fight with their standard equipment
  • Fight takes place on the Death Star
  • Morals on

Stipulations

Round 1 Mace attacks Exar and Dooku attacks Vader first

Round 2 Vise Versa

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MasterKungFu

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team 1 slightly

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deactivated-5e8a1f5fafc4e

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Could go either way, really. Vader in my opinion is the MVP, while Kun can at least hold off either opponent (or in this case, Mace), for a very long time due to approaching level of skill, monstrous physical strength, and initially perplexing approach to dueling. If either of them attacked Kun with the Force they would then need to contend with a gauntlet counter-attack, which I see as more formidable than either Mace's TK or Dooku's lightning, and Vader's telekinesis is devastating for obvious reasons, so even a Force-bout would end in Team 2's favour. Siding with them for a slight majority, or just a stalemate.

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Jacthripper

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Too close to call

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WollfMyth209

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Team 1 is more skilled while Team 2 is more powerful. However, Dooku is more powerful than Exar Kun and is comparable to Darth Vader in terms of TK and his Lightning would stagger Vader which could provide him the momentary advantage.
It really all depends if Kun can dispatch Mace Windu quickly with the Force. I honestly don't see that happening since Mace's TK is superior to Exar Kun's marginally plus Exar is more of a warrior himself, so his best option on Mace are his blasts. If Mace battles Kun, I think Windu should win 7/10 through sheer skill, speed and superior TK.

Meanwhile, Dooku VS Vader would indeed be an interesting battle and I gave my opinions on it before. Basically, Dooku is more skilled than Vader, he's faster than Vader, he has comparable TK and lightning that would stagger Vader and might somewhat neutralize Vader's TK advantage, though not fully. So overall I think Dooku can win 6/10 against Vader if he utulizes his speed and skill to find openings in Vader's defenses and stagger him via Lightning to get the momentary advantage.

However, that's an individual battle. If Vader switches to facing Windu after a few moments of battling Dooku, and then Exar holds Dooku off long enough, I think Vader can dispatch Windu quickly enough for him to aid Exar against Dooku.

So it all really depends on who faces who, but since the OP says Mace faces Exar and Dooku faces Vader at first, I think Team 1 can win around 6-7/10, really close battle though.

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Lucano

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#7  Edited By Lucano

Team 1 due to superior saber skill and physicals. Mace is more than capable of taking Exar down while Dooku holds Vader back only to gank him after Mace takes down Exar.

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LuckyStrike

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@lucano said:

Team 1 due to superior saber skill and physics. Mace is more than capable of taking Exar down while Dooku holds Vader back only to gank him after Mace takes down Exar.

What does this mean?

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noah_ouellette

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Vader bacame marginally weaker after his dip in the lava pond so he no longer is capable of duelling the best duelists of the era, exar kun is very possibly the weakest contestant, so team one takes this

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Erkan12

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Vader became marginally weaker after his dip in the lava pond so he no longer is capable of duelling the best duelists of the era, Exar kun is very possibly the weakest contestant, so team one takes this

Agreed.

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Sy8000

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Sorry, I don't have any raisins.

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LuckyStrike

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#12  Edited By LuckyStrike

@noah_ouellette said:

Vader became marginally weaker after his dip in the lava pond so he no longer is capable of dueling the best duelists of the era, Exar Kun is very possibly the weakest contestant, so team one takes this

He became weaker initially, but after re-tooling his skill set and honing those skills for 23 years he reached his peak by ROTJ. As the Return of the Jedi Movie Novel states "he was powerful than ever he ever was". Vader is like Beethoven gone deaf, he's not what he could have been but he became better with the power he was left with.

Ghere are plenty of attributes that confirm it:

  • Doesn't suffer from confidence induced stupidity
  • Plenty of feats demonstrating vastly increased power with Telekinesis
  • The weight of his prosthesis amplifying his striking power
  • His lightsaber style being modified to inco-operate different forms, becoming a hybridized style based on the back of Djem So
  • Actually uses tactics in duels

Consistent application of speed and hampered agility are the only areas this Vader is worse in, I use the word consistent, as Vader could use judicious applications of force speed in short bursts, which were described as being faster than thought.

If you would like to debate why, Vader can't beat Dooku or Mace, I'd be happy to get involved, and you're right about Kun being the weakest Duelist of the bunch, which is why i teamed him up with the MVP.

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hatemalingsia

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Team 1.

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Penderor

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#14  Edited By Penderor

Team 1. I always considered Dooku slightly better than Vader.

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Erkan12

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@luckystrike:

There is no dueling feat suggests that Vader exceeded Anakin's dueling abilities after his injury, he stalemate with Old Ben Kenobi, then he defeated ESB Luke which is not worty of note, and lastly he lost to RotJ Luke.

Lucas already said that Vader was a crippled half droid half man and Vader wasn't in his prime.

Loading Video...

That also would make no sense if Vader surpassed Anakin's dueling abilities, since RotJ Luke shouldn't be that good duelist in the first place, clearly the reason Luke able to beat Vader in RotJ because of Vader's incompetent dueling abilities (in comparison with Dooku-Maul-Anakin prime Obi-Wan etc.) , Luke couldn't beat top level duelists from PT era.

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deactivated-5bfd5d714c687

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Team 2.

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Lucano

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@luckystrike: I meant physical Stats. Sorry I'm on my phone and I have been distracted these last few days.

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106me

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Team 1... But I just REALLY wanna say Team 2.

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Erkan12

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#19  Edited By Erkan12

which were described as being faster than thought.

As for this feat, Vader gets shot and wounded when this feat happened, that was clearly a hyperbole right before Vader get shot.

The stormtroopers behind him jumped back, startled by his display of power, but Vader didn't hesitate. He strode forward into the circular room. Here, Vader sensed, lay the source of the disturbance.

The Dark Lord stepped into the room, scanning it. There was something here... The faint click of metallic weapons reached his ears.

Faster than thought, Vader drew and ignited his light-saber. In the same moment, small openings appeared in the walls and ceiling, and hidden blasters fired. Energy beams rained down on the Dark Lord and his soldiers. Stormtroopers cried out as blaster bolts shattered their white armor. At least a dozen bolts streaked toward Vader himself. Moving faster than the eye could follow, Vader's lightsaber blocked them all.

Except for one.

The last blaster shot slipped past his saber and glanced off the Dark Lord's armored shoulder. Circuits snapped and sizzled. Looking down, Vader saw that the energy beam had sliced a thin hole in his armor and reached his skin. A tiny stream of blood trickled down his armor and dripped onto the stone floor. The Dark Lord let out a low growl and covered the wound with his gloved hand. The wound itself was only a scratch, but he relied on his armor's power to keep him alive. Now that it had been punctured, he would have to have it repaired. More blasters fired. "Retreat," Vader ordered, backing out of the building. Only then did he realize that all his men were dead.

Source : Galaxy of Fear - Clones

Mace is simply too fast for Vader to handle. While Vader get trouble with featless Jedi sometimes, Mace is fast enough to teleport himself behind of Quinlan Vos and even Asajj Ventress.

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Source : Jedi - Mace Windu

Teleports himself behind of Vos ;

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Source : Star Wars Republic 83

Moves faster than blaster fire, and creates a fake body image, and teleports himself behind of bounty hunter Vianna D'pow.

No Caption Provided

Source : Star Wars Tales 13

Chona Bene, a featless Jedi from PT era, teleports himself behind of Darth Vader ;

No Caption Provided

Source : Star Wars Purge The Tyrants Fist 02 (2013)

Sha Koon also gains a similar advantage and cuts Vader ;

No Caption Provided

Source : Purge - Seconds to Die (2009)

Kai Hudorra (another featless Jedi) states Vader is slow.

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Hudorra : You're slow Vader...

Source : Dark Times - A Spark Remains (2013)

A non-force sensitive Bounty Hunter gains a similar advantage from Vader's lack of agility and mobility and cuts him ;

No Caption Provided

Source : Star Wars - Tales 04

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deactivated-5dace575ce059

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Mhhh Ill have to come back and think about it, there are some interesting points imo that can be explained.

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LuckyStrike

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#21  Edited By LuckyStrike

@erkan12 Your attempts @lowballing Vader are lulzy at best, as you're ejaculating scans where he's 22 years out of his prime, and the video you posted was also a big piece of nothing.

I can see English might not be your first language, so i'll give you the benefit of the doubt at the lack of comprehensive skills.

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Jedisupermaster

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Team 1 wins. Exar Kun is a weak link here.

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icecold14

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Team 2 Vader being MVP

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ShootingNova

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50/50.

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Erkan12

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I can see English might not be your first language, so i'll give you the benefit of the doubt at the lack of comprehensive skills.

Oh sorry my mistake, I thought this was English.

No Caption Provided

''YOU'RE SLOW VADER.''

Your attempts @lowballing Vader are lulzy at best, as you're ejaculating scans where he's 22 years out of his prime, and the video you posted was also a big piece of nothing.

I am not lowballing anyone here, I just presented simple facts and you are ignoring it because of your Vader fanboyism. Vader is powerful, but denying his lack of speed is ''lulzy at best''...

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Pharoh_Atem

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Oh, wow, some fodder Jedi says something, that must mean it must be true!! But let's ignore sources that imply Vader is faster than Obi-Wan, and equal with Luke, because one fodder Jedi said otherwise!

Much WOW indeed.

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Oh, wow, some fodder Jedi says something, that must mean it must be true!! But let's ignore sources that imply Vader is faster than Obi-Wan, and equal with Luke, because one fodder Jedi said otherwise!

Much WOW indeed.

Kai Hudorra > Your sources bro. Facts are facts. Vader is slow.

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@dccomicsrule2011 said:

Oh, wow, some fodder Jedi says something, that must mean it must be true!! But let's ignore sources that imply Vader is faster than Obi-Wan, and equal with Luke, because one fodder Jedi said otherwise!

Much WOW indeed.

Kai Hudorra > Your sources bro. Facts are facts. Vader is slow.

I must now go back and rethink my entire opinion on the Star Wars mythos....thanks to Erkan, I've finally seen the light!!!

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Rexorr

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I would think Team 2 takes it here.... Though I havent seen Exar Kun feats... Anyone please?

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TheVivas

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#30  Edited By TheVivas

Team 2.

And lol at the poor lowballing attempts being made by some people.

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GeorgeWBush

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I am unsure who'd win between Kun and Windu, it could go either way.

Vader would best either one, leaning team two 6/10 and no more

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Erkan12

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#33  Edited By Erkan12

@dccomicsrule2011 said:

But let's ignore sources that imply Vader is faster than Obi-Wan,

As far as I know, Vader isn't even faster than Old Ben Kenobi.

You're mine, old man, Vader thought.

But just as he was ready to deliver the final strike, Obi-Wan managed a fast series of attacks, and Vader had to move quickly to avoid the strikes. Even as old and weak as Obi-Wan was, his technique was accomplished enough that a foolish move on Vader's part could still be fatal. A group of stormtroopers standing in the dock became aware of them. Vader felt rather than saw them notice the strange duel, and sensed the troopers heading toward them. He did not wish them to interfere, but even to warn them off would take concentration that he could not afford at the moment. Should his attention falter, Obi-Wan could kill him in the blink of an eye.

Source : Star Wars - Death Star

This source states that Vader and Ben have equal speeds.

Executing a move of incredible swiftness for one so old, Kenobi lunged at the massive shape. Vader blocked the stab with equal speed, riposting with a counterslash that Kenobi barely parried. Another parry and Kenobi countered again, using this opportunity to move around the towering Dark Lord. They continued to trade blows, with the old man now backing toward the hangar. Once, his saber and Vader's locked, the interaction of the two energy fields producing a violent sparking and flashing. A low buzzing sound rose from the straining power units as each saber sought to override the other.

Source : A New Hope Novelization

@dccomicsrule2011 said:

and equal with Luke,

If you meant ESB Luke, it is possible. RotJ Luke was clearly faster than Vader, and that is the sole reason why Luke bested him, otherwise I don't see how RotJ Luke could beat Vader, Vader was clearly more skilled and physically stronger.

For the first time, the thought entered Vader's consciousness that his son might best him. He was astounded by the strength Luke had acquired since their last duel, in the Cloud City - not to mention the boy's timing, which was honed to a thought's-breadth. This was an unexpected circumstance. Unexpected and unwelcome. Vader felt humiliation crawling in on the tail of his first reaction, which was surprise, and his second, which was fear. And then the edge of the humiliation curled up, to reveal bald anger. And now he wanted revenge.

(...)

He rushed to his father with a frenzy he'd never known. Nor had Vader. The gladiators battled fiercely, sparks flying from the clash of their radiant weapons, but it was soon evident that the advantage was all Luke's. And he was pressing it. They locked swords, body to body. When Luke pushed Vader back to break the clinch, the Dark Lord hit his head on an overhangingbeam in the cramped space. He stumbled backward even farther, out of the low-hanging area. Luke pursued him relentlessly. Blow upon blow, Luke forced Vader to retreat - back, onto the bridge that crossed the vast, seemingly bottomless shaft to the power core. Each stroke of Luke's saber pummeled Vader, like accusations, like screams, like shards of hate. The Dark Lord was driven to his knees. He raised his blade to block yet another onslaught - and Luke slashed Vader's right hand off at the wrist.

Source : Return of the Jedi Novelization

And this source clearly says that ''Vader wasn't fast enough.''

As Skywalker threw himself at the towering black figure, Vader raised his lightsaber to defend himself. But he wasn't fast enough. Skywalker's blade cut through the Sith Lord's prosthetic right arm, and it fell to the floor, still clutching the red-bladed lightsaber.

Source : Rise and Fall of Darth Vader

@dccomicsrule2011 said:

Oh, wow, some fodder Jedi says something,

Well, at least that's a source as well as Lucas's previous statements.

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LamLam

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Team 1. Kun has no way to beat Mace or Dooku for a majority without external aid, so he dies the quickest. And Vader has no chance against both of them at the same time.

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LuckyStrike

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#35  Edited By LuckyStrike

@erkan12 said:

I am not lowballing anyone here, I just presented simple facts and you are ignoring it because of your Vader fanboyism. Vader is powerful, but denying his lack of speed is ''lulzy at best''...

If it makes you feel at home, I'll make battle with Vader being at this stage in his sith career. Feel free to lowball and consider it a wank space for you to Jizz out scans like an ejaculating steed. I wish to discuss the capabilities of Vader in his prime.

Vader is my favorite character, what you gonna do?

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Aressword

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Could go either way, really. Vader in my opinion is the MVP, while Kun can at least hold off either opponent (or in this case, Mace), for a very long time due to approaching level of skill, monstrous physical strength, and initially perplexing approach to dueling. If either of them attacked Kun with the Force they would then need to contend with a gauntlet counter-attack, which I see as more formidable than either Mace's TK or Dooku's lightning, and Vader's telekinesis is devastating for obvious reasons, so even a Force-bout would end in Team 2's favour. Siding with them for a slight majority, or just a stalemate.

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sXe619

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#38  Edited By sXe619

Team One if this is movie versions of Vader and Dooku, Team Two if this is EU versions of everyone.

@luckystrike said:

Pls provide raisins

Alright, here you go:

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DarthAznable

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Dear lord the SW fans.

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NixNightbird

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NONE of those comic pages are valid or canon. They're Legends sources.

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sirfizzwhizz

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@nixnightbird: they are valid as everyone is discussing Legends feats.

On topic, team 1 in a close fight. I find Kun the weakest link.

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echostarlord117

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Team One only because of Kun. Vader is more than capable of manhandling Mace or Dooku, but not both.