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#1 Edited by jashro44 (16462 posts) - - Show Bio

Luther Strode

VS

X-23

Rules

  • Morals are off
  • Random encounter
  • Win by Death/Incapacitation

Location

  • Begin 10 feet apart
  • fight takes place here:

Who wins and why?

#2 Edited by tparks (2351 posts) - - Show Bio

Luther Strode wins. I would argue he can take even more punishment then X-23 and has a healing factor on par with hers. He is also much stronger and faster (this includes travel speed, reaction time, and fighting speed). He also has precog abilities during fights. Luther Strode has beaten much tougher opponents then her in The Librarian, The Collector, and Jack the Ripper.

#3 Posted by dondave (26954 posts) - - Show Bio

Strode

#4 Edited by God_Spawn (35985 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Kinney is just too physically inept to beat him. She has him in skill and her damage soak is quite nuts, but she's gonna get overwhelmed eventually.

Moderator
#5 Posted by Wolverine08 (26824 posts) - - Show Bio
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#6 Posted by Pierpat (2024 posts) - - Show Bio

@tparks said:

Luther Strode wins. I would argue he can take even more punishment then X-23 and has a healing factor on par with hers. He is also much stronger and faster (this includes travel speed, reaction time, and fighting speed). He also has precog abilities during fights. Luther Strode has beaten much tougher opponents then her in The Librarian, The Collector, and Jack the Ripper.

QFT

#7 Posted by laflux (11100 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Kinney is just too physically inept to beat him. She has him in skill and her damage soak is quite nuts, but she's gonna get overwhelmed eventually.

I think the responses here have been satisfactory thus far. I don't like to resort to ABC logic, but in terms of overall effectiveness, X-23 < Bone Claw Wolverine (I know Kinney has adamantuim claws), but Logan's claws will cut through Luther just as easily. There was a battle thread done for this made by Gregg IIRC, and the general consensus was that Luther could hang with Wolverine under such conditions. So he should be able to pick up the win.

#8 Posted by The_Red_Viper (4075 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux said:

@god_spawn said:

I think Kinney is just too physically inept to beat him. She has him in skill and her damage soak is quite nuts, but she's gonna get overwhelmed eventually.

I think the responses here have been satisfactory thus far. I don't like to resort to ABC logic, but in terms of overall effectiveness, X-23 < Bone Claw Wolverine (I know Kinney has adamantuim claws), but Logan's claws will cut through Luther just as easily. There was a battle thread done for this made by Gregg IIRC, and the general consensus was that Luther could hang with Wolverine under such conditions. So he should be able to pick up the win.

X--23 has actually beaten Wolverine at least once, and the dude wasn't holding back.

#9 Posted by jashro44 (16462 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux said:

@god_spawn said:

I think Kinney is just too physically inept to beat him. She has him in skill and her damage soak is quite nuts, but she's gonna get overwhelmed eventually.

I think the responses here have been satisfactory thus far. I don't like to resort to ABC logic, but in terms of overall effectiveness, X-23 < Bone Claw Wolverine (I know Kinney has adamantuim claws), but Logan's claws will cut through Luther just as easily. There was a battle thread done for this made by Gregg IIRC, and the general consensus was that Luther could hang with Wolverine under such conditions. So he should be able to pick up the win.

Yea but Luther has the ability to grab Logans bone claws with his tendons. X-23 doesn't really need leverage to cut free if Luther tries that so I figured this would be different.

#10 Posted by Wolverine08 (26824 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux said:

@god_spawn said:

I think Kinney is just too physically inept to beat him. She has him in skill and her damage soak is quite nuts, but she's gonna get overwhelmed eventually.

I think the responses here have been satisfactory thus far. I don't like to resort to ABC logic, but in terms of overall effectiveness, X-23 < Bone Claw Wolverine (I know Kinney has adamantuim claws), but Logan's claws will cut through Luther just as easily. There was a battle thread done for this made by Gregg IIRC, and the general consensus was that Luther could hang with Wolverine under such conditions. So he should be able to pick up the win.

X--23 has actually beaten Wolverine at least once, and the dude wasn't holding back.

PIS really. It's generally accepted that X-23 has done nothing to justify beating Wolverine.

Online
#11 Posted by The_Red_Viper (4075 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_red_viper said:

@laflux said:

@god_spawn said:

I think Kinney is just too physically inept to beat him. She has him in skill and her damage soak is quite nuts, but she's gonna get overwhelmed eventually.

I think the responses here have been satisfactory thus far. I don't like to resort to ABC logic, but in terms of overall effectiveness, X-23 < Bone Claw Wolverine (I know Kinney has adamantuim claws), but Logan's claws will cut through Luther just as easily. There was a battle thread done for this made by Gregg IIRC, and the general consensus was that Luther could hang with Wolverine under such conditions. So he should be able to pick up the win.

X--23 has actually beaten Wolverine at least once, and the dude wasn't holding back.

PIS really. It's generally accepted that X-23 has done nothing to justify beating Wolverine.

I disagree. I think they're at the very least equals.

#12 Posted by Wolverine08 (26824 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08 said:

@the_red_viper said:

@laflux said:

@god_spawn said:

I think Kinney is just too physically inept to beat him. She has him in skill and her damage soak is quite nuts, but she's gonna get overwhelmed eventually.

I think the responses here have been satisfactory thus far. I don't like to resort to ABC logic, but in terms of overall effectiveness, X-23 < Bone Claw Wolverine (I know Kinney has adamantuim claws), but Logan's claws will cut through Luther just as easily. There was a battle thread done for this made by Gregg IIRC, and the general consensus was that Luther could hang with Wolverine under such conditions. So he should be able to pick up the win.

X--23 has actually beaten Wolverine at least once, and the dude wasn't holding back.

PIS really. It's generally accepted that X-23 has done nothing to justify beating Wolverine.

I disagree. I think they're at the very least equals.

Really? She doesn't have skill feats that compare to Logan's, inferior durability, inferior strength, inferior training, isn't faster (People assume that because she's lighter.), etc. The only real place in which Laura beats out Logan is healing factor effectiveness. And even then, Logan is still very close to her in that aspect. She isn't even an equal to Daken, let alone Wolverine. She'll get to that point someday, but she isn't there as of right now.

Online
#13 Posted by The_Red_Viper (4075 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08: She stalemated Daken once actually. Strength wise, Wolv definitely exceeds her, and probably on the department of superhuman senses as well. But X-23 has done some amazing things like take out invisible soldiers and stuff. On the durability/pain threshold department, I don't think either of them feels much pain at all >< seriously though they both have rediculous pain thresholds. Like, X-23 had a shark nibble at her like a chew-toy and then rip her legs off and she barely even noticed. Skill wise, X-23 should be at least as good as Logan if not more. It's been established that she's a lot more calculated than him and is a combat genius. like, she thought of 27 different ways to kill a man is seconds. She was a killer even since she was a little girl. Logan is indeed older than her but I still believe she exceeds him, even if only by a small margin, in terms of skill. In terms of speed, I dunno, Logan might be faster but I really don't know.

#14 Posted by jashro44 (16462 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux said:

@god_spawn said:

I think Kinney is just too physically inept to beat him. She has him in skill and her damage soak is quite nuts, but she's gonna get overwhelmed eventually.

I think the responses here have been satisfactory thus far. I don't like to resort to ABC logic, but in terms of overall effectiveness, X-23 < Bone Claw Wolverine (I know Kinney has adamantuim claws), but Logan's claws will cut through Luther just as easily. There was a battle thread done for this made by Gregg IIRC, and the general consensus was that Luther could hang with Wolverine under such conditions. So he should be able to pick up the win.

X--23 has actually beaten Wolverine at least once, and the dude wasn't holding back.

Wolverine was holding back if we are thinking of the same fight (the fight she bled him out and threw dirt in his wounds). He cut loose a bit in the end but it was too late at that point.

#15 Edited by Wolverine08 (26824 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_red_viper: Daken has given Logan better fights than Laura has (Despite him ultimately being inferior.) I think Logan's pain tolerance is just higher virtue of that he's been in the game longer than Laura and has had more time to get used to pain. Laura is indeed somewhat more cunning and tactical than Logan, but tactical genius does not equate to combat skill. Lex Luthor is a tactical genius of the highest degree yet if we put him in a fist fight against Batman he'd get slapped around. Likewise, Laura's just hasn't had as much extensive martial training as and ultimately doesn't have enough feats to match Logan's plethora of skill feats. Even if we out Laura on Logan's caliber skill wise due to her tactical thinking, Forge (a genius) has stated that Wolverine's mind is complex enough to complete a gold medal winning Olympic routine while beating four chess computers in his head. Laura beats out Logan in some aspects (Healing factor and tactical thinking), but she's still ultimately no a dead end equal to him yet. I firmly believe she'll get to that point eventually, but she still has a ways to go.

But I don't want to derail @jashro44's thread and turn it into a Wolverine vs X-23 thread.

Online
#16 Edited by jashro44 (16462 posts) - - Show Bio
#17 Posted by The_Red_Viper (4075 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_red_viper: Daken has given Logan better fights than Laura has (Despite him ultimately being inferior.) I think Logan's pain tolerance is just higher virtue of that he's been in the game longer than Laura and has had more time to get used to pain. Laura is indeed somewhat more cunning and tactical than Logan, but tactical genius does not equate to combat skill. Lex Luthor is a tactical genius of the highest degree yet if we put him in a fist fight against Batman he'd get slapped around. Likewise, Laura's just hasn't had as much extensive martial training as and ultimately doesn't have enough feats to match Logan's plethora of skill feats. Even if we out Laura on Logan's caliber skill wise due to her tactical thinking, Forge (a genius) has stated that Wolverine's mind is complex enough to complete a gold medal winning Olympic routine while beating four chess computers in his head. Laura beats out Logan in some aspects (Healing factor and tactical thinking), but she's still ultimately no a dead end equal to him yet. I firmly believe she'll get to that point eventually, but she still has a ways to go.

But I don't want to derail @jashro44's thread and turn it into a Wolverine vs X-23 thread.

I don't see why you're saying she isn't as good as Wolverine when she has beaten him and has stalemated Daken.

#18 Posted by Wolverine08 (26824 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_red_viper: She "beat" him in a fight where he only got serious towards the end, which like Jash mentioned was too late since she clogged his wounds with dirt. Her stalemating Daken isn't that impressive considering the fact that when Wolverine stopped holding back against him in Uncanny X-Force #34, he completely obliterated him and drowned his head in a puddle with one hand.

Online
#19 Edited by Floopay (7700 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_red_viper: She "beat" him in a fight where he only got serious towards the end, which like Jash mentioned was too late since she clogged his wounds with dirt. Her stalemating Daken isn't that impressive considering the fact that when Wolverine stopped holding back against him in Uncanny X-Force #34, he completely obliterated him and drowned his head in a puddle with one hand.

Lets not forget she used a tactic that Wolverine didn't even pick up on. In other words, she outsmarted him tactically. That's no small feat. X-23 is at least on Wolverine's level, if she had his adamantium skeleton I would put her as his equal at the very least. Over and above this, when Wolverine DID get serious, it CLEARLY shows in the scan that he's already recovered from the previous wounds. She didn't start throwing dirt on his wounds until after he was serious.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

#20 Edited by Wolverine08 (26824 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay said:

@wolverine08 said:

@the_red_viper: She "beat" him in a fight where he only got serious towards the end, which like Jash mentioned was too late since she clogged his wounds with dirt. Her stalemating Daken isn't that impressive considering the fact that when Wolverine stopped holding back against him in Uncanny X-Force #34, he completely obliterated him and drowned his head in a puddle with one hand.

Lets not forget she used a tactic that Wolverine didn't even pick up on. In other words, she outsmarted him tactically. That's no small feat. X-23 is at least on Wolverine's level, if she had his adamantium skeleton I would put her as his equal at the very least. Over and above this, when Wolverine DID get serious, it CLEARLY shows in the scan that he's already recovered from the previous wounds. She didn't start throwing dirt on his wounds until after he was serious.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

When X-23 can beat a Wolverine that comes with her the intent to kill from the very beginning, then you can call me and consider X-23 an equal to Wolverine. When X-23 has mastered all of the world's martial arts (Including 28 forms of Kung Fu, and kenjutsu, buijuitsu, aikido, etc.) then you can call me and consider X-23 an equal to Wolverine. When she her skill feats against top tier fighters are comparable to Wolverine beating Iron Fist in a pure H2H fight, dropping Shang Chin in a pure H2H fight with absolute ease in three pages, completely stomp Captain America in a fight despite the fact that his healing factor was severely nerfed due to exhaustion from fighting for days and Steve being completely fresh and having the advantage of surprise, holding an edge over Captain America in a fight while avoiding several blows he had an opportunity to use, can drop the anyone as dangerous as the Black Dragon Death Squad with ease H2H, etc. then call me and consider X-23 an equal to Wolverine. When he martial art training is expansive as Wolverine being trained by Master Po, Stick, Ogun, Weapon X, etc. then call me and consider X-23 an equal to Wolverine. When she can go form stalemating Daken to beating and killing him with ease like Wolverine did when he stopped holding back against him, then call me and consider her an equal to Wolverine.

Until then, X-23 is mostly unlocked potential.

Online
#21 Posted by Floopay (7700 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08: The plain and simple fact is, she beat Wolverine. He had time to fully recover, get his claws ready, and fight her in fair combat. Wolverine has been around for a good forty years longer than X-23, so obviously he has more feats. But at the end of the day, she doesn't even have an adamantium skeleton, and she was able to outsmart him, and beat him through tactical brilliance, superior agility, and comparable fighting skill.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

#22 Edited by Wolverine08 (26824 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay:

The plain and simple fact is, she beat Wolverine. He had time to fully recover, get his claws ready, and fight her in fair combat.

No, the plain and simple fact is that she beat a Wolverine only got serious with her towards the end of the fight. Maybe I'll fawn over her when she beats a Wolverine who wants to leave her a dead corpse from the out start of a fight between the two.

at the end of the day, she doesn't even have an adamantium skeleton, and she was able to outsmart him, and beat him through tactical brilliance,

An adamantium skeleton doesn't increase tactical know how. Yes, she is a little more cunning than Wolverine, but he isn't a far below here considering that Forge (a genius) has acknowledged that Wolverine has a mind that is complex enough to complete a gold medal winning routine while beating four chess computers in his head.

Wolverine has been around for a good forty years longer than X-23, so obviously he has more feats.

Yeah, he indeed has a higher quantity and quality of feats that surpass Laura.

superior agility, and comparable fighting skill.

She is not faster or more agile than him. People assume that because she's smaller than him. In terms of feats, she's slower than him. And sorry mate, she doesn't not have enough against top tier fighters to make the statement that she has "comparable" fighting skill sound utterly asinine.

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#23 Posted by Floopay (7700 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08: Either way, Wolverine himself claimed he was getting serious, and at that point he had recovered from all previous wounds. Just because he's been around longer doesn't mean he's better. At this point, X-23 has a lot of comparable feats against comparable fighters.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

#24 Posted by Wolverine08 (26824 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay said:

@wolverine08: Either way, Wolverine himself claimed he was getting serious, and at that point he had recovered from all previous wounds. Just because he's been around longer doesn't mean he's better. At this point, X-23 has a lot of comparable feats against comparable fighters.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

. Just because he's been around longer doesn't mean he's better. At this point, X-23 has a lot of comparable feats against comparable fighters.

Come on now, Wolverine's feats against top tier fighters blow X-23's out in terms of quantity and quality.

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#25 Posted by Floopay (7700 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08: So because she's beaten most of the top tier fighters she's gone up against, her's don't have the same quality as Wolverine's? Honestly, I don't see why you wouldn't consider her a top tier fighter in terms of skill, tactics, and ability.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

#26 Posted by Wolverine08 (26824 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay:

So because she's beaten most of the top tier fighters she's gone up against,

Like who? Wolverine just ultimately has a higher quality and quantity of feats, and superior quality and documentation in terms of training. Breaking down Wolverine's skill feats, he is arguably the best fighter in the Marvel Universe. The same can't be seriously said for Laura.

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#27 Posted by laflux (11100 posts) - - Show Bio

All we need in this Wolverine vs X-23 debate is @super_soldierxii (Who can't get angry since I didn't call him into a Spider-Man vs Wolverine debate >:P )

#28 Edited by Wolverine08 (26824 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux said:

All we need in this Wolverine vs X-23 debate is @super_soldierxii (Who can't get angry since I didn't call him into a Spider-Man vs Wolverine debate >:P )

He'll still be pissed that you called him into this debate :D

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#29 Posted by God_Spawn (35985 posts) - - Show Bio

Remember the part where X-23 is fighting Logan and he "stops holding back" to only stop fighting to talk to himself about how smart Laura is for putting dirt in his wounds, which in turn doesn't mean she stopped fighting and downed him?

Moderator
#30 Posted by God_Spawn (35985 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay:

So because she's beaten most of the top tier fighters she's gone up against,

Like who? Wolverine just ultimately has a higher quality and quantity of feats, and superior quality and documentation in terms of training. Breaking down Wolverine's skill feats, he is arguably the best fighter in the Marvel Universe. The same can't be seriously said for Laura.

Lady Deathstrike and...and...I got nothing.

Moderator
#31 Posted by New_World_Order (11210 posts) - - Show Bio

Luthor

#32 Posted by Wolverine08 (26824 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08 said:

@floopay:

So because she's beaten most of the top tier fighters she's gone up against,

Like who? Wolverine just ultimately has a higher quality and quantity of feats, and superior quality and documentation in terms of training. Breaking down Wolverine's skill feats, he is arguably the best fighter in the Marvel Universe. The same can't be seriously said for Laura.

Lady Deathstrike and...and...I got nothing.

Skilzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

Online
#33 Posted by Super_SoldierXII (5913 posts) - - Show Bio

Meh ... Imma say Luther.

But there is no way in hell Laura is in Wolverine's league. Sorry.

#34 Posted by Wolverine08 (26824 posts) - - Show Bio

Meh ... Imma say Luther.

But there is no way in hell Laura is in Wolverine's league. Sorry.

But, but, she like BEAT Wolverine! She's better than he ever will be! :D

Online
#35 Posted by Super_SoldierXII (5913 posts) - - Show Bio

@super_soldierxii said:

Meh ... Imma say Luther.

But there is no way in hell Laura is in Wolverine's league. Sorry.

But, but, she like BEAT Wolverine! She's better than he ever will be! :D

Yeah ... and if he had any interest at all in fighting her ... and if rubbing dirt in his wounds would/should actually stop them from healing ... and if wishes were horseshoes ... Heck, bullets get pushed out of his system by his healing factor as it knits itself. Dirt ain't going to do squat to stop the healing factor from doing what it does best.

#36 Posted by The_Red_Viper (4075 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08 said:

@floopay:

So because she's beaten most of the top tier fighters she's gone up against,

Like who? Wolverine just ultimately has a higher quality and quantity of feats, and superior quality and documentation in terms of training. Breaking down Wolverine's skill feats, he is arguably the best fighter in the Marvel Universe. The same can't be seriously said for Laura.

Lady Deathstrike and...and...I got nothing.

You forgot Spiderman.

#37 Posted by Wolverine08 (26824 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn said:

@wolverine08 said:

@floopay:

So because she's beaten most of the top tier fighters she's gone up against,

Like who? Wolverine just ultimately has a higher quality and quantity of feats, and superior quality and documentation in terms of training. Breaking down Wolverine's skill feats, he is arguably the best fighter in the Marvel Universe. The same can't be seriously said for Laura.

Lady Deathstrike and...and...I got nothing.

You forgot Spiderman.

Spider-Man isn't a top tier fighter, and he was holding back during that fight. Even then, Logan has fought with Spider-Man before and moved fast enough to make Peter think he was faster than him.

Online
#38 Posted by The_Red_Viper (4075 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_red_viper said:

@god_spawn said:

@wolverine08 said:

@floopay:

So because she's beaten most of the top tier fighters she's gone up against,

Like who? Wolverine just ultimately has a higher quality and quantity of feats, and superior quality and documentation in terms of training. Breaking down Wolverine's skill feats, he is arguably the best fighter in the Marvel Universe. The same can't be seriously said for Laura.

Lady Deathstrike and...and...I got nothing.

You forgot Spiderman.

Spider-Man isn't a top tier fighter, and he was holding back during that fight. Even then, Logan has fought with Spider-Man before and moved fast enough to make Peter think he was faster than him.

Spiderman is a guy who can lift buildings and dodge automatic machine-gun fire from point blank with his eyes closed. X-23 beating him is a big feat. Even if he was holding back that doesn't mean his reflexes and his speed weren't there, X-23 was on top of him with her claws popped out and aimed at his throat by the end of the fight and she didn't kill him just because they were interrupted. I know Wolverine has beaten Spiderman as well (and has lost to him since then a few times over), but you know what? X-23 beat Wolverine, so... yeah.

#39 Edited by Wolverine08 (26824 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_red_viper:

Spiderman is a guy who can lift buildings and dodge automatic machine-gun fire from point blank with his eyes closed. X-23 beating him is a big feat. Even if he was holding back that doesn't mean his reflexes and his speed weren't there,

Being physically strong does not equate to skill. It has been well documented just how BIG the difference between a Spider-Man who is holding back out of fear of his opponents safety and a Peter who wants to rip your face off is. Why do you think that when Spider-Man is pitted against street levelers here on the Vine and is switched from morals on to off, people start going "Spidey STOMPS!"? Because their is a big difference between a morals on and off Peter. If we want to say because X-23 "beating" a 25 Tonner is a feat that puts her above Wolverine, Logan has dropped the Class 70+ Grey Hulk. See where that got you? Wolverine just ultimately blows out X-23 in quantity and quality of skill feats against top tier fighters.

X-23 beat Wolverine, so... yeah.

Eh, she "beat" a Wolverine who was blatantly avoiding her throughout the majority of the fight out of fear for her safety, and even when he got a little serious, stopped to think to himself while Kinney was still fighting. I'll put X-23 in Logan's league the day she beats a Wolverine who comes into the fight wanting to put her six feet underground from the outset of the battle.

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#40 Posted by The_Red_Viper (4075 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_red_viper:

Spiderman is a guy who can lift buildings and dodge automatic machine-gun fire from point blank with his eyes closed. X-23 beating him is a big feat. Even if he was holding back that doesn't mean his reflexes and his speed weren't there,

Being physically strong does not equate to skill. It has been well documented just how BIG the difference between a Spider-Man who is holding back out of fear of his opponents safety and a Peter who wants to rip your face off is. Why do you think that when Spider-Man is pitted against street levelers here on the Vine and is switched from morals on to off, people start going "Spidey STOMPS!"? Because their is a big difference between a morals on and off Peter. If we want to say because X-23 "beating" a 25 Tonner is a feat that puts her above Wolverine, Logan has dropped the Class 70+ Grey Hulk. See where that got you? Wolverine just ultimately blows out X-23 in quantity and quality of skill feats against top tier fighters.

X-23 beat Wolverine, so... yeah.

Eh, she "beat" a Wolverine who was blatantly avoiding her throughout the majority of the fight out of fear for her safety, and even when he got a little serious, stopped to think to himself while Kinney was still fighting. I'll put X-23 in Logan's league the day she beats a Wolverine who comes into the fight wanting to put her six feet underground from the outset of the battle.

Of course Wolverine has more feats since he's been around for decades longer. But X-23 has beaten him, no way how you put it. She HAS beaten him, fair and square, she's smarter and probably more skilled than him.

#41 Edited by Wolverine08 (26824 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_red_viper:

She HAS beaten him, fair and square, she's smarter and probably more skilled than him.

"Beating" Wolverine when he is literally running away from you for most of the fight out of fear for your safety and stops to think to himself for the passing moment when he gets a little serious doe not equate to that much of an impressive victory. Like I said, let me know when Laura beats a bloodlusted Wolverine like the one who was determined to kill Daken from outset in Uncanny X-Force #34 and did so without that much effort. She is indeed a bit more cunning than Logan, but he is still pretty close to her considering that his mind is complex enough to complete a gold medal winning routine while beating four chess computers in his head. Laura does not have enough feats against top tier fighters to suggest she is more skilled than him. Wolverine blows her out in terms of quantity and quality of feats against top tier fighters, documentation and quality of training, and overall skill.

Online
#42 Posted by Thewhiteronin (514 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Luther Strode would win against X-23. He's basically a Midnighter-Lite.

#43 Posted by The_Red_Viper (4075 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_red_viper:

She HAS beaten him, fair and square, she's smarter and probably more skilled than him.

"Beating" Wolverine when he is literally running away from you for most of the fight out of fear for your safety and stops to think to himself for the passing moment when he gets a little serious doe not equate to that much of an impressive victory. Like I said, let me know when Laura beats a bloodlusted Wolverine like the one who was determined to kill Daken from outset in Uncanny X-Force #34 and did so without that much effort. She is indeed a bit more cunning than Logan, but he is still pretty close to her considering that his mind is complex enough to complete a gold medal winning routine while beating four chess computers in his head. Laura does not have enough feats against top tier fighters to suggest she is more skilled than her. Wolverine blows her out in terms of quantity and quality of feats against top tier fighters, documentation and quality of training, and overall skill.

Wolverine started getting serious when he took his jacket off. He didn't stop and comment about her skill while she kept fighting, he commented about it much later, I don't know what you're talking about. Anywho, you're just reaching, X-23 has beaten Wolverine fair and square, she has demonstrated to be smarter and more skilled, that's it.

Not to mention this:

Outpreforms Wolverine by 3 and a half minutes.

#44 Edited by Wolverine08 (26824 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_red_viper:

Wolverine started getting serious when he took his jacket off. He didn't stop and comment about her skill while she kept fighting, he commented about it much later, I don't know what you're talking about.

He stopped to think to himself about her cleverness. Like I said, call me when X-23 downs a Wolverine who wants to leave her a dead corpse from the start of the fight.

Anywho, you're just reaching, X-23 has beaten Wolverine fair and square, she has demonstrated to be smarter and more skilled, that's it.

Ohhhh, beating a Wolverine who holds back against you for most of the fight. Oh so impressive. X-23 "won" that fight through the combination of her good tactical ability, and Logan's refusal to fight seriously from the beginning, and his (out of character) ineptness to stop and fawn over her skill while in the middle of a fight. You're the one reaching here mate. Laura is indeed a bit more cunning than Logan, but her is right next to here in that department. She doesn't have neither the quantity nor quality of feats against top tier fighters to suggest she is superiorly skilled compared to Wolverine. That's bologna. Call me when she starts dropping fighters like Iron Fist, Captain America, Shang Chi, Daken, etc. She's mostly unlocked potential. Highly skilled potential at that, but still just potential at the end of the day.

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#45 Edited by The_Red_Viper (4075 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_red_viper:

Wolverine started getting serious when he took his jacket off. He didn't stop and comment about her skill while she kept fighting, he commented about it much later, I don't know what you're talking about.

He stopped to think to himself about her cleverness. Like I said, call me when X-23 downs a Wolverine who wants to leave her a dead corpse from the start of the fight.

Anywho, you're just reaching, X-23 has beaten Wolverine fair and square, she has demonstrated to be smarter and more skilled, that's it.

Ohhhh, beating a Wolverine who holds back against you for most of the fight. Oh so impressive. X-23 "won" that fight through the combination of her good tactical ability, and Logan's refusal to fight seriously from the beginning, and his (out of character) ineptness to stop and fawn over her skill while in the middle of a fight. You're the one reaching here mate. Laura is indeed a bit more cunning than Logan, but her is right next to here in that department. She doesn't have neither the quantity nor quality of feats against top tier fighters to suggest she is superiorly skilled compared to Wolverine. That's bologna. Call me when she starts dropping fighters like Iron Fist, Captain America, Shang Chi, Daken, etc. She's mostly unlocked potential. Highly skilled potential at that, but still just potential at the end of the day.

No he didn't. He took off his jacket, said "I'll make you listen", then they just fought for like a page or two before he made any comment about anything (unless you count him saying "RAAAAARGH" or whatever that was).

Wolverine did hold back in the start but when he stopped holding back X-23 still handed him his ass. No matter how you put it, X-23 beat Wolverine who was not holding back. I understand you're a huge fan of Wolverine, judging by your name and the fact that Wolverine is awesome, but X-23 is just a better fighter.

#46 Posted by Wolverine08 (26824 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_red_viper:

Wolverine did hold back in the start but when he stopped holding back X-23 still handed him his ass. No matter how you put it, X-23 beat Wolverine who was not holding back. I understand you're a huge fan of Wolverine, judging by your name and the fact that Wolverine is awesome, but X-23 is just a better fighter.

He took off his jacket and they exchanged one or two blows for a page. He then proceeded to stop in the middle of the fight wonder aloud about her cleverness. Yes, I am a big fan of Wolverine, but I will happily admit when he is outclassed in area (As I've conceded that Laura is superior to him tactically.), but she is not a superiorly skilled fighter. She posses neither the quantity nor quality of feats against top tier fighters to back it u. Come on now, breaking down Logan feats, he along with people like Iron Fist, Black Panther, etc. are arguably the best fighters running around in the Marvel Universe. X-23 is seriously not in that league yet as of now.

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#47 Posted by The_Red_Viper (4075 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_red_viper:

Wolverine did hold back in the start but when he stopped holding back X-23 still handed him his ass. No matter how you put it, X-23 beat Wolverine who was not holding back. I understand you're a huge fan of Wolverine, judging by your name and the fact that Wolverine is awesome, but X-23 is just a better fighter.

He took off his jacket and they exchanged one or two blows for a page. He then proceeded to stop in the middle of the fight wonder aloud about her cleverness. Yes, I am a big fan of Wolverine, but I will happily admit when he is outclassed in area (As I've conceded that Laura is superior to him tactically.), but she is not a superiorly skilled fighter. She posses neither the quantity nor quality of feats against top tier fighters to back it u. Come on now, breaking down Logan feats, he along with people like Iron Fist, Black Panther, etc. are arguably the best fighters running around in the Marvel Universe. X-23 is seriously not in that league yet as of now.

They fought for 2 pages and in those 2 pages X-23 had the upper hand. Then Wolverine made a comment about her skill. The key words are-SHE HAD THE UPPER HAND. Over Wolverine. That's it.

But that doesn't really matter since I think either of them could beat Luther, from what I've seen from him. He's tough, but not tough enough.

#48 Posted by Wolverine08 (26824 posts) - - Show Bio
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#49 Edited by solon (421 posts) - - Show Bio

Strode

#50 Posted by The_Red_Viper (4075 posts) - - Show Bio