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#1 Edited by Life_Without_Progress (1992 posts) - - Show Bio

Fight takes place inside a shopping mall at night

Deathstroke has 1 hour prep time

In character

Winner by Incapacitation, KO, or Death

Who wins and for what reasons?

#2 Posted by i_like_swords (14527 posts) - - Show Bio

Haven't read LOLS Luther Strode, but I have read STOLS and I have to say that based on that, and the fact he gets 5 years experience after those comics, he takes it. He's too damn tough for Deathstroke to handle and his precognition also aids him greatly.

#3 Posted by dondave (37550 posts) - - Show Bio

Strode

#4 Posted by Onemoreposter (4054 posts) - - Show Bio

Oh man, great match. Luthor is such a batshit crazy wild card. I'd say in over all physicals and durability he has 'stroke beat. However, Slade has better standard equipment (including that snazzy Nth metal armor), better training, and far more experience. I'd also give Slade the speed advantage.

In the scenario above I have to give this to DS 7/10

.....but in a cage match with no equipment? Strode takes it 8/10.

#5 Posted by Chibio (920 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll always say Luther Strode, since he has a clear physical advantage in the fight. Stronger, faster, more durable, faster regeneration and the his 6th sense thingy. Deathstrokes armor has been pierced before and if there is something that can pierce his armor for sure, it's his sword. The way I see this battle turning out to be is Luther avoiding the majority of the fired bullets running towards Deathstroke, stealing his sword and stabbing him to death.

#6 Posted by Life_Without_Progress (1992 posts) - - Show Bio

BUMP

#7 Posted by MonsterStomp (18091 posts) - - Show Bio

Pre-52 -- Deathstroke wins -- He's dealt with people faster than Luther.

New 52 -- Unless Luther can get through that armour, Deathstroke wins again.

#8 Posted by i_like_swords (14527 posts) - - Show Bio

Pre-52 -- Deathstroke wins -- He's dealt with people faster than Luther.

New 52 -- Unless Luther can get through that armour, Deathstroke wins again.

#9 Edited by dondave (37550 posts) - - Show Bio

Changed my mind.

Deathstroke ftw

#10 Posted by IndieComicsFTW (3253 posts) - - Show Bio

Round 1, Luther Wins handily. Pre 52 DS does not have speed over Luther, nor has the Defense. Skill is offset by Luther's own showings of skill, as well his Mystical Move Reading ability. Then we have the fact whatever weapon he brings to bear in Close Combat will simply get Muscle Pinch and disarm. The only real way DS can win is Blast Staff, which is only useful in a Range battle, and even then Luther accuracy and ability with throwing crap can pull wins.

Round 2, Can can still pull wins, but it would be hard unless he uses the Proemthium Sword. Due to the Nth Metal, DS is pretty un harm able. However New 52 has less skill showings, and overall less impressive showings.

#11 Edited by MonsterStomp (18091 posts) - - Show Bio

@indiecomicsftw said:

Round 1, Luther Wins handily. Pre 52 DS does not have speed over Luther, nor has the Defense. Skill is offset by Luther's own showings of skill, as well his Mystical Move Reading ability. Then we have the fact whatever weapon he brings to bear in Close Combat will simply get Muscle Pinch and disarm. The only real way DS can win is Blast Staff, which is only useful in a Range battle, and even then Luther accuracy and ability with throwing crap can pull wins.

Deathstroke is immune to body reading and precog. He easily has the speed to react to Luther and has the offensive output to cut Luther in half. Oh, and Slade has an hours prep...

#12 Posted by Wolverine08 (42409 posts) - - Show Bio

@indiecomicsftw said:

Round 1, Luther Wins handily. Pre 52 DS does not have speed over Luther, nor has the Defense. Skill is offset by Luther's own showings of skill, as well his Mystical Move Reading ability. Then we have the fact whatever weapon he brings to bear in Close Combat will simply get Muscle Pinch and disarm. The only real way DS can win is Blast Staff, which is only useful in a Range battle, and even then Luther accuracy and ability with throwing crap can pull wins.

Deathstroke is immune to body reading and precog. He easily has the speed to react to Luther and has the offensive output to cut Luther in half. Oh, and Slade has an hours prep...

MonsterStomp calling someone out, eh? Tis' should be fun to watch indeed.

#13 Posted by Wolverine08 (42409 posts) - - Show Bio

Deathstroke.

#14 Posted by MonsterStomp (18091 posts) - - Show Bio
#15 Posted by Iragexcudder (4910 posts) - - Show Bio
#16 Posted by Wolverine08 (42409 posts) - - Show Bio

Round 1, Luther Wins handily. Pre 52 DS does not have speed over Luther, nor has the Defense. Skill is offset by Luther's own showings of skill, as well his Mystical Move Reading ability. Then we have the fact whatever weapon he brings to bear in Close Combat will simply get Muscle Pinch and disarm. The only real way DS can win is Blast Staff, which is only useful in a Range battle, and even then Luther accuracy and ability with throwing crap can pull wins.

Round 2, Can can still pull wins, but it would be hard unless he uses the Proemthium Sword. Due to the Nth Metal, DS is pretty un harm able. However New 52 has less skill showings, and overall less impressive showings.

I thought Luther sucked now according to you?

#17 Edited by MonsterStomp (18091 posts) - - Show Bio

@monsterstomp: luther can still read his body language.

How? Cassie has failed. Rose has failed. What makes you think Luther can read it?

#18 Posted by IndieComicsFTW (3253 posts) - - Show Bio

@iragexcudder said:

@monsterstomp: luther can still read his body language.

How? Cassie has failed. Rose has failed. What makes you think Luther can read it?

Luther's Body Reading is not the same. Cassie is a Science Base Skill. Luther's is a Mystical/Supernatural version from studying the Book of Cain that grants him all his super natural stats and such.

Prove to me he can ignore Supernatural/Mystical abilities. Then I will concede that point.

#19 Posted by Iragexcudder (4910 posts) - - Show Bio

@monsterstomp: because Luthers body language reading far surpasses those of cassie and rose. Jordan himself told me that Luther is always a step ahead, and that's a 2x's peak human strength and speed (1800 lb strength and average 70mph speed) with meat vision of which he can see weak points that he can use to break bones or even decapitate opponents.

Cassie and Rose cannot see internationally of which is why they're much different than strode.

#20 Posted by MonsterStomp (18091 posts) - - Show Bio

@monsterstomp said:

@iragexcudder said:

@monsterstomp: luther can still read his body language.

How? Cassie has failed. Rose has failed. What makes you think Luther can read it?

Luther's Body Reading is not the same. Cassie is a Science Base Skill. Luther's is a Mystical/Supernatural version from studying the Book of Cain that grants him all his super natural stats and such.

Prove to me he can ignore Supernatural/Mystical abilities. Then I will concede that point.

Precog is a mystical ability.

@monsterstomp: because Luthers body language reading far surpasses those of cassie and rose. Jordan himself told me that Luther is always a step ahead.

I haven't seen this much exaggeration since Slade use to be 9 steps ahead of his opponents. Luther hasn't used it in a combat situation.

#21 Edited by IndieComicsFTW (3253 posts) - - Show Bio

@monsterstomp said:

@indiecomicsftw said:

Luther's Body Reading is not the same. Cassie is a Science Base Skill. Luther's is a Mystical/Supernatural version from studying the Book of Cain that grants him all his super natural stats and such.

Prove to me he can ignore Supernatural/Mystical abilities. Then I will concede that point.

Precog is a mystical ability.

Wrong. It can be, I also seen fiction with Psychic (Not Magical at all) Precogs as well people use Machines for Precog. Hell Spider Man's Spider Sense is labeled as Precog, and its genetic lol.

so unless its a Mystical Move Reading she does.....

#22 Posted by MonsterStomp (18091 posts) - - Show Bio

@indiecomicsftw: So? What makes Luther's better is the fact that we can't understand its origins? Who uses that logic?

#23 Edited by Iragexcudder (4910 posts) - - Show Bio

@monsterstomp: hyperbole wise by using feats strode is 1000 moves ahead. So that's kinda out of question. Luther has used it in a combat situation from

"Now I can see it"

Right after he accidentally kills his mother.

Strode surpasses Wilson in base speed so it can be a pretty awesome fight.

#24 Posted by IndieComicsFTW (3253 posts) - - Show Bio

@indiecomicsftw: So? What makes Luther's better is the fact that we can't understand its origins? Who uses that logic?

Same people who use the logic that Supernatural, Psychic, Machine, and Genetic versions of the same power in fiction have always shown to work on some things, but other times not on others many times.

Example, Bomb Queen is Immune to Magic period. This means Magic Fire, Magic Teleportation, Magic Energy. She is still affected by Non Magic versions of those same things.

So UNLESS Slade has Magical/Supernatural immunity to counter Strode's Magical/Supernatural Move Reading (not Precog anymore per writer statements) then he has no reason to not be treated like anyone else.

Sorry, its a no limit fallacy logic to say he is Immune to all forms of the same power when 100% of fiction states this is not the case all the time ever.

#25 Edited by IndieComicsFTW (3253 posts) - - Show Bio

@monsterstomp: hyperbole wise by using feats strode is 1000 moves ahead. So that's kinda out of question. Luther has used it in a combat situation from

"Now I can see it"

Right after he accidentally kills his mother.

Strode surpasses Wilson in base speed so it can be a pretty awesome fight.

Agreed.

#26 Posted by MonsterStomp (18091 posts) - - Show Bio

@iragexcudder: When has he used it in combat I reckon? Luther can stare at Librarian and see a bunch of blue Librarians, what exactly is that? Is Librarian going to stand over there? Or over there next? What is that? Where were the blue Librarians shown in the fight? If his body reading is depicted as such, why not use it?

#27 Posted by MonsterStomp (18091 posts) - - Show Bio

@monsterstomp said:

@indiecomicsftw: So? What makes Luther's better is the fact that we can't understand its origins? Who uses that logic?

Same people who use the logic that Supernatural, Psychic, Machine, and Genetic versions of the same power in fiction have always shown to work on some things, but other times not on others many times.

Example, Bomb Queen is Immune to Magic period. This means Magic Fire, Magic Teleportation, Magic Energy. She is still affected by Non Magic versions of those same things.

So UNLESS Slade has Magical/Supernatural immunity to counter Strode's Magical/Supernatural Move Reading (not Precog anymore per writer statements) then he has no reason to not be treated like anyone else.

Sorry, its a no limit fallacy logic to say he is Immune to all forms of the same power when 100% of fiction states this is not the case all the time ever.

Sorry that's flawed logic, how does Luther's body reading differ from Cassie's or Rose's? Show me. He learnt it from a book. How is that supernatural?

#28 Edited by IndieComicsFTW (3253 posts) - - Show Bio

@iragexcudder: When has he used it in combat I reckon? Luther can stare at Librarian and see a bunch of blue Librarians, what exactly is that? Is Librarian going to stand over there? Or over there next? What is that? Where were the blue Librarians shown in the fight? If his body reading is depicted as such, why not use it?

He does use it. His own writer even says in his recent tweets (crappy tweets lol) how he has it. The real question is why should they draw blue lines all the time for what we know he has?

As seen he has not mastered the move at all yet. Librarian comments on this when Luther is unable to counter Librarian at all, who has mastered the move reading.

As seen, he has not mastered the Move Reading till that moment right there. After he killed his mom, it all came together for Luther. Then he was easy hitting Librarian after this.

No need to draw the Blue ever again.

#29 Posted by Iragexcudder (4910 posts) - - Show Bio

@monsterstomp: when looking at the Librarian he's seeing possible movements (hence the body language reading going in different directions with the hyperbole 1000 moves ahead) and judge every movement ahead based off the past motion. Luther can it based off of his muscle moments (meat vison) and judge and sense where Slade would move and that's how he would generally use his body language reading.

I understand what you're saying with the battlewise movements but Luther has stated on panel that he can in fact see what The Librarian has tried to teach him.. and it worked when his mother died. Based off visual interpretation he learned how to use the body language reading and (I guess) Jordan took that as a way that how he sees in battle also.

It's tough but I definitely see your point here Mon.

#30 Edited by IndieComicsFTW (3253 posts) - - Show Bio

@monsterstomp said:

@indiecomicsftw said:

@monsterstomp said:

@indiecomicsftw: So? What makes Luther's better is the fact that we can't understand its origins? Who uses that logic?

Same people who use the logic that Supernatural, Psychic, Machine, and Genetic versions of the same power in fiction have always shown to work on some things, but other times not on others many times.

Example, Bomb Queen is Immune to Magic period. This means Magic Fire, Magic Teleportation, Magic Energy. She is still affected by Non Magic versions of those same things.

So UNLESS Slade has Magical/Supernatural immunity to counter Strode's Magical/Supernatural Move Reading (not Precog anymore per writer statements) then he has no reason to not be treated like anyone else.

Sorry, its a no limit fallacy logic to say he is Immune to all forms of the same power when 100% of fiction states this is not the case all the time ever.

Sorry that's flawed logic, how does Luther's body reading differ from Cassie's or Rose's? Show me. He learnt it from a book. How is that supernatural?

Luther sees through Flesh from reading the book. He has a Healing Factor due to reading a book. He has Super Human stats reading a book. He has Muscle Control reading a book.

But we will assume all this is Skill? This is not Supernatural after reading a book for a month?

This is him after reading the book for a week, and he does not even understand what he is doing!?

Quite Different from Cassie's move reading that was taught to her with real world techniques. I do not think that is a good argument at all :)

Not with a Supernatural art like the Hercules Method from the Book of Cain :)

#31 Edited by MonsterStomp (18091 posts) - - Show Bio

@monsterstomp: when looking at the Librarian he's seeing possible movements (hence the body language reading going in different directions with the hyperbole 1000 moves ahead) and judge every movement ahead based off the past motion. Luther can it based off of his muscle moments (meat vison) and judge and sense where Slade would move and that's how he would generally use his body language reading.

- "Possible movements"? So Luther basically sees Librarian getting into a fighting position? There are like 15+ possibilities, which is fairly inaccurate. Cassandra's body reading is based on the whole "Breathing, muscle and even bone" movements, yet she still can't read Slade. I still don't see why Luther's body reading would give him that advantage.

#32 Posted by MonsterStomp (18091 posts) - - Show Bio
#33 Posted by IndieComicsFTW (3253 posts) - - Show Bio

@indiecomicsftw: You didn't answer the former question.

What was the former question? How is it supernatural? I answered it. The Book granted him powers from reading, and understanding it. The Librarian also stated only a handful of people is capable of this power. The power called Talents.

I answered the question.

- "Possible movements"? So Luther basically sees Librarian getting into a fighting position? There are like 15+ possibilities, which is fairly inaccurate. Cassandra's body reading is based on the whole "Breathing, muscle and even bone" movements, yet she still can't read Slade. I still don't see why Luther's body reading would give him that advantage.

There is a big difference. Cassie learn her skill from real world techniques. Luther uses this Move Reading ability as a power he never was taught, or understand for the first run of the series.

Also Luther can see through people, clothes, and gear, directly at muscles. Cassie cannot.

So there is no comparison of Cassie's taught by skill, and no powers to Luther's Supernatural powers.

#34 Edited by Iragexcudder (4910 posts) - - Show Bio

@monsterstomp: no its not fighting position it's body reading and seeing the next movement. That's why there are so many blue silhouettes, Luther sees them in every direction and sees every movement.

The +15 possibilities isn't really inaccurate when he can (supposedly) see 1000 moves ahead so that kinda makes it seem like fodder to him.

"Breathing, muscle and bone movements" isn't quite the same as seeing internal movements. Especially seeing specific single muscles moves and contracting is different than mere guessing.

If she could read Slade, then she would. Slade is simply faster and outclasses her. But he doesn't outclass strodes speed and senses.

Muscle reading is a HUGE advantage. @ him I on twitter if I can't answer the questions you're looking for. I'm sure he would love to answer you.

#35 Posted by MonsterStomp (18091 posts) - - Show Bio

@indiecomicsftw

What was the former question? How is it supernatural? I answered it. The Book granted him powers from reading, and understanding it. The Librarian also stated only a handful of people is capable of this power. The power called Talents.

I answered the question.

How does it differ from Cassie's and Rose's abilities? If you really deduce it. It really doesn't differ.

There is a big difference. Cassie learn her skill from real world techniques. Luther uses this Move Reading ability as a power he never was taught, or understand for the first run of the series.

Also Luther can see through people, clothes, and gear, directly at muscles. Cassie cannot.

Er... What's the difference? A guy was just standing on a balcony and Cassie knew he was thinking about jumping, via seeing his breathing, muscle movements and bones. Luther can see the flesh, Cassie can also see muscle twitches. What's the real difference here?

#37 Edited by Iragexcudder (4910 posts) - - Show Bio

@monsterstomp: here, Justin Jordan made a blog about our sh*tty thread that was completely embarassing. I commented on it; So did cadence and stooge. He stated of how powerful strode truly is and I'm sure you'll appreciate his eloquence.

http://justinjordancomics.blogspot.com/2014/04/the-fuzzy-edges.html?showComment=1396613615949&m=1#c940363858087389941

#38 Edited by Iragexcudder (4910 posts) - - Show Bio

@indiecomicsftw: he would answer. He's a cool guy and states the truth. I don't think he really cares who strode could beat because he made an epic character.

He didn't say that Batman could win, he said Batman always wins at the end based off the writer.

Not everyone who reads comics puts it in to the "debating sense" and "who can beat who" that we generally think of almost immediately.. Jordan didn't down Strode at all and he explained it well. We kinda made assess of ourselves dude..

I don't think Jim Starlin would want to get into a Darkseid/Thanos battle. Out of respect, mostly.

#39 Edited by Cable_Extreme (9295 posts) - - Show Bio
#40 Posted by Wolverine08 (42409 posts) - - Show Bio
#41 Posted by IndieComicsFTW (3253 posts) - - Show Bio

@indiecomicsftw: he would answer. He's a cool guy and states the truth. I don't think he really cares who strode could beat because he made an epic character.

He didn't say that Batman could win, he said Batman always wins at the end based off the writer.

Not everyone who reads comics puts it in to the "debating sense" and "who can beat who" that we generally think of almost immediately.. Jordan didn't down Strode at all and he explained it well. We kinda made assess of ourselves dude..

I don't think Jim Starlin would want to get into a Darkseid/Thanos battle. Out of respect, mostly.

Oh yeah, I get that now. I actually just apologized to him personally on the Blog. I now will debate Luther as he should be rather than the anime calc style I was going with before.

#42 Edited by Iragexcudder (4910 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08: why is it you say Deathstroke?.. If you don't mind me asking.

#43 Edited by Cable_Extreme (9295 posts) - - Show Bio
#44 Edited by patrat18 (9790 posts) - - Show Bio
#45 Posted by Iragexcudder (4910 posts) - - Show Bio

@indiecomicsftw: I know man, I know you were crushed about what was said and anger is needed sometimes, you expressed yourself, especially when you were basically his number one fan, and he noticed what you said. He's a good guy and that's why he made the blog to make us understand that we shouldn't be upset about Strode, especially when he's as impressive as he is in a logical sense.

All us strode fans were a bit salty but if anything, he's awesome regardless.

#46 Posted by Wolverine08 (42409 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08: why is it you say Deathstroke?.. If you don't mind me asking.

No problem with the question. Slade gets a majority here in my opinion due to the fact that he's repping a massive skill advantage over Luther, a ways to possibly negate his move reading somewhat through his advanced body control, and weapons with the right damage output to put Luther down. The knowledge granted through the 1 hour of prep seals the deal. With some understanding of Luther's abilities to go along with his other advantages, Slade will be able to figure the best way to engage Luther.

#47 Edited by Cable_Extreme (9295 posts) - - Show Bio

@monsterstomp said:

@indiecomicsftw: You didn't answer the former question.

What was the former question? How is it supernatural? I answered it. The Book granted him powers from reading, and understanding it. The Librarian also stated only a handful of people is capable of this power. The power called Talents.

I answered the question.

@monsterstomp said:

- "Possible movements"? So Luther basically sees Librarian getting into a fighting position? There are like 15+ possibilities, which is fairly inaccurate. Cassandra's body reading is based on the whole "Breathing, muscle and even bone" movements, yet she still can't read Slade. I still don't see why Luther's body reading would give him that advantage.

There is a big difference. Cassie learn her skill from real world techniques. Luther uses this Move Reading ability as a power he never was taught, or understand for the first run of the series.

Also Luther can see through people, clothes, and gear, directly at muscles. Cassie cannot.

So there is no comparison of Cassie's taught by skill, and no powers to Luther's Supernatural powers.

To be fair, I don't see how seeing his anatomy helps at all, Slade has said that he can control his internal organs to fool a machine, and he has easily negated body reading from both Cassie, and his daughter Rose who can identify what he will do based on a single twich, or a bead of sweat. Cassie even said that she see's everything, when looking at Batman (who had clothes/armor on). I don't see your "points" changing anything.

However, since this is New 52 Slade, this whole conversation is meaningless.

#48 Posted by Cable_Extreme (9295 posts) - - Show Bio

@iragexcudder said:

@wolverine08: why is it you say Deathstroke?.. If you don't mind me asking.

No problem with the question. Slade gets a majority here in my opinion due to the fact that he's repping a massive skill advantage over Luther, a ways to possibly negate his move reading somewhat through his advanced body control, and weapons with the right damage output to put Luther down. The knowledge granted through the 1 hour of prep seals the deal. With some understanding of Luther's abilities to go along with his other advantages, Slade will be able to figure the best way to engage Luther.

I hate to be a debbie downer, but from the looks of it, this is New 52 Slade ):

#49 Posted by Iragexcudder (4910 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08: I respect it. What's that possible way btw? I'm just asking because Librarian was superior to Luther in the body language reading sense.. so I just want to know that Deathstroke capability. The weapons are undeniable, but if Slade can't get a hit down (if Luthers body language works) on Strode, how would he win?

What would he do with that one your prep? There are no limitations in the bio, but what do you think?

#50 Posted by Wolverine08 (42409 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08 said:

@iragexcudder said:

@wolverine08: why is it you say Deathstroke?.. If you don't mind me asking.

No problem with the question. Slade gets a majority here in my opinion due to the fact that he's repping a massive skill advantage over Luther, a ways to possibly negate his move reading somewhat through his advanced body control, and weapons with the right damage output to put Luther down. The knowledge granted through the 1 hour of prep seals the deal. With some understanding of Luther's abilities to go along with his other advantages, Slade will be able to figure the best way to engage Luther.

I hate to be a debbie downer, but from the looks of it, this is New 52 Slade ):

Hmmm, I think I might back Strode for a slight majority in that case. Pre 52 Slade wins for the reasons I mentioned IMO.