Luke Skywalker VS Count Dooku (Sabers Only)

Luke Vs Dook

• Luke from Return of the Jedi
• Dooku from Revenge of the Sith
• No force abilities except for Force assisted augmentation
• Dun Moch is allowed
• Fighting on a beach in Mauritius
• Morals on but both are trying to kill each other

Dooku.

Raisins?

He just has better dueling feats up to this point. Luke was ROTJ Vader's equal in sabers, but Vader isn't the duelist Dooku is.

If Luke rages from Dun Moch, he might win. But he's just not as skilled as the Count yet.

@mije_101:

I see, so Dooku wins Via fanboyism....

Luke. He was considered Vaders equal, and I place Vader's dueling skills over Dooku's.

Leaning towards Luke

@luckystrike: You asked for reasons and he gave them to you then you call him a fanboy. Perfect way to get people to come to your thread.

Count Dooku.

@luckystrike: Very poor thread maker. Dooku still wins.

With only film feats? Then probably Dooku. Maybe. I mean Luke did beat Vader, but Dooku seemed more skilled to me. I'm not sure.

Djem So could play a roll in this bout seeing as how Luke is just as powerful, if not more so than Anakin physically, though Dooku maybe notch more skilled and maybe even faster. Hmmmm, truthfully I'm torn, seeing as how I put Dooku and Vader on similar skill levels and Luke stalemated him while holding back in my honest opinion. I know I kinda contradicted myself in the post but whatevs...

While this is true Dooku can't use any force minus augmentation. I see this fight going something like Dooku's last fight with Anakin. Now Luke isn't on Anakin's skill level per say, he can amp himself via Dark Side. He can also turn Dun Moch against Dooku like he did in his second fight with Vader.

You know you want to say Luke.

@darthaznable said:

I do....I'm a self admitted Luke fanboy.

Dooku is more skilled slightly, Luke is stronger and uses a strength-based form, which provides a slight edge. Could go either way.

I think Luke would physically overpower Dooku like Anakin did.

This.

Could go either way. I might give the edge to Dooku since he did well against CW Anakin, who is around Luke level of skill and physicality, buuuut he did lose in the duel and Luke held back against Vader...

Yeah, could go either way, maybe a slight edge to Luke because of style. Ugh, this is hard.

Look, look, look, I'll say...Dooku, no Luke, no Dooku. Probably Dooku...but maybe Luke...

Dooku is faster, more skilful, uses a weapon hilt that Luke isn't familiar with, and is more experienced. Luke is stronger and uses strength-based fighting styles which generally (but not always) counter Makashi. Obviously Luke being enraged is a win for him but I doubt this would happen.

Probably the Count for a small majority.

Dooku.

@shootingnova: Who is more skilled than dooku in strictly light sabers?

@baztet: Caedus, Yoda, Palpatine, late-NR era Luke and so on.

Luke in terms of speed & strategy. Dooku in terms of skill.

Dooku wins because in Return of the Jedi Luke was not that skilled with the lightsaber. Going by later books Luke would win, but not at that point.

Dooku wins a slight majority in a duel. He's slightly more skilled, faster and more expirienced and can counter Luke's strength based assaults considering how well he did against General Grievous and Anakin, both of which are likely stronger than Luke.

Luke being just as strong as Vader is means that neither Grievous nor Anakin are stronger than Luke is.

Luke should be superior here. I hate using ABC logic, but Vader should be superior to Dooku. Luke was able to beat Vader after he actually began to try. Luke won't be trying to turn Dooku: he will want to beat Dooku. In a raw lightsaber duel, Luke should win. That said, he will have problems with Dooku's lightning, and that could be his downfall.

I want to say Luke, but the lightning is a serious problem for him at this point.

@jedixman:

Sabers only

I'm pretty sure Luke can Deflect Lightning with his saber, and Tyranus can't use it anyways.

And Luke beat Vader through rage-based amplifications, which aren't entirely applicable here. Otherwise, sources have deemed them as equals.

Could go either way, but I see it being more likely that Dooku would take a slight majority via experience.
Although I did take Jedixmans answer into account, the statement "Luke was able to beat Vader after he actually began to try" I believe to be slightly irrelevant. This is because, yes Vader beat Dooku, but, Sidious was trying to turn Skywalker to the darkside, therefore Dooku wasn't dueling seriously. Skywalker has much higher stamina than Dooku, so the consequence of Dooku not taking the duel seriously is that, once Dooku saw that Anakin was actually a threat, he was tired out.
Also, Dooku stalemated yoda in AOTC for a while, anyone want to back up Luke in saying he could do the same?

dooku

Dooku never stalemated Yoda. He was tiring himself just by attacking and failing, and sources have told us that Yoda deflected several of his blows effortlessly. All he was doing was becoming a barrier to Dooku's solar sailer, an objective which he succeeded in until Tyranus distracted him by threatening the Jedi. Prior to that, the Count was exhausting himself trying to get past Yoda, which he failed in doing anyway.

Vader was also more experienced than Luke, but that didn't allow him to win either.

Dooku held back during the early portions of the RotS duel, when Anakin and Obi-Wan were using various other forms to distract him. When they reverted to their true stances, Tyranus went all-out and was still fighting desperately for his life, hence why he had to call in his droid guards. Anakin alone has fought evenly with Tyranus before.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/stalemate
A situation in which no action can be taken or progress made.
Yoda never got the upperhand in any of that duel during AOTC to my knowledge at least. If he wasn't stalemating Yoda, what was he doing? Attacking and failing yet he held Yoda off.
The experience gap between Dooku and Luke is greater. Also speed was a big advantage for Luke during that duel with Vader, although Dooku has far greater speed.
As for The RoTS duel, "When they reverted to their true stances, Tyranus went all-out and was still fighting desperately for his life", Yes that's because he is old and not very energetic so he would have been tired during the real duel from the holding back. Dooku show repeated ability to hold off Skywalker and/or Kenobi during SWtCW.

i will give it to luke. he out dueled vader.

@darthsamburger:

1. Yoda was holding back and not going all-out, hence why it wasn't a stalemate. Tyranus later fought Yoda on a dark side nexus and still lost.

2. Greater, but there needs to be proof that it will make such a substantial difference for it to actually be the reason why Tyranus wins. Because Vader is virtually as experienced as Tyranus, and it wasn't enough for him to win.

3. No, he wasn't tired from holding back, unless you can prove it. He tired because the force of Anakin's Djem So proved too overpowering for his Makashi, which simply couldn't generate enough kinetic force to keep him at bay and thus his reserves depleted rapidly. Luke also uses Djem So, albeit with elements of other forms.

@jedixman: it's light sabers onlly so no lightning.

@shootingnova: "No, he wasn't tired from holding back, unless you can prove it.". Can you prove he wasn't?

Vader isn't superior duelist to Dooku. He lacks too much speed. As for Dooku vs. Luke, Dooku for the majority. I don't believe RotJ Luke has enough skill and strength to outduel Dooku, he used his speed and agility advantage over Vader but that will not work on Dooku.

Sources have told us that Luke and Vader were equal in terms of physical ability, so the assumption that Luke had an advantage over Vader is baseless, Vader is likewise not slow compared to Dooku to boot. Also, dueling ability has nothing to do with speed. So if we drop Yoda speed to that of a human and gave Superman a sword, that means Superman is a far greater duelist than Yoda because he's faster? Come on son.

@darthsamburger: No, I don't prove negatives. It's up to you to prove a claim if you make it. And seeing that you can't, it's a concession.

Luke

@shootingnova: Yes, Yoda was probably holding back, but neither got the upper-hand on each other, so it is still technically a stalemate. Though due to Yoda probably holding back, the feat's quality becomes much smaller.

@sxe619: That's not how it works. When people say they stalemated, they intend to say that they rival each other in terms of fighting ability. In skill, Tyranus isn't very far from Yoda. But there is a very extensive physical gap which is the reason for why Yoda would beat Tyranus in a semi-decent fight at best.

And they didn't stalemate, anyway. Dooku exhausted himself merely failing his attacks.

So we should actually assume that Luke is physically more powerful than RotS Anakin but also much slower than RotS Anakin?

Shouldn't that make Luke an odd match up vs Dooku?

Does it mean Luke is strong enough to quickly deplete Dooku's reserves? Or that Luke is simply slow enough for Dooku to chip away at?

@boringperson:

So we should actually assume that Luke is physically more powerful than RotS Anakin but also much slower than RotS Anakin?

Shouldn't that make Luke an odd match up vs Dooku?

Does it mean Luke is strong enough to quickly deplete Dooku's reserves? Or that Luke is simply slow enough for Dooku to chip away at?

....what? Physical abilities, also includes speed----as it pertains to the physical movements of the muscles.

Edit: Unless you're trying to say Vader is much slower than Anakin, which is something I disagree with. Luke has deflected fire from 120 Stormtroopers, seen sub-light ships from a dilated time perspective, broke the sound barrier while seeing an invisibly fast foe in slow-motion, etc, etc. Those feats alone are enough to put him in Anakin's stratosphere, and easily enough for him to compete with the Count.

And when you consider Vader's higher end speed feats, he's fast. Not consistently that fast mind you, but in general I wouldn't regard him as the slow robot people make him out to be.

Skill is the most important function when it comes to dueling, but mobility and agility is also important, that is why being ''Most Agile Swordmaster'' means something.

Having hailed from nobility and great wealth, Dooku yearned for prestige. Even as a youngster, he had been obsessed with learning all he could about the Sith and the dark side of the Force. He had toed the Jedi line; become the Temple's most agile swordmaster and instructor.

Source : Labyrinth Of Evil

Unfortunately Vader lacks too much agility and mobility.

Simply put, Vader is unable to do these moves in duels, not because he lacks the skill to do it, just because of his heavy body armor and the helmet.

Dooku 7/10

In the vain of @shootingnova I've wanted to make a battle misconception of ROTS Dooku vs. Anakin and Obi-Wan. Most use that duel as a bad showing for Dooku when really it should be a good showing. I also owe it a bit to @i_like_swords. IRRC his Debunking Star Wars Versus Series makes mention of it as well.

People seem to overlook that Dooku defending against two complete masters of Soresu and Djem So. Mace Windu said that Obi-Wan was not only a master but the master of Form III. Dooku would go on to say Anakin was the finest Form V specialist he had ever encountered. Yet he still defended against both. Not only did he defend against the pair of them, but he took Obi-Wan out of the fight. Surely, a lesser man should have gone down more quickly under the combined effort of a Form III and V master, which, by the way, is a perfect compliment to one another.

The reason Dooku became so fatigued under their combined effort is because he was putting more power behind his strikes to break Kenobi's guard while simultaneously putting more strength behind his parries to fend off Anakin's cleaves.

This may sound like crazy talk, but I'm not even sure Anakin is a better duelist than Dooku on even ground, certainly not as skilled.

But that's a whole other conversation.

With all that being said, I believe in a sabers only scenario it will go to Dooku. Not just because he's got more experience and formal training, he's just simply more skilled. That's not even a knock on Luke. Luke is an extremely natural and intuitive fighter. I'd expect he'd be able to adapt rather well to Dooku's fighting style, even with his unorthodox curved hilt and unfamiliar form.

But ultimately, he'd lose out, but not in some stomp. His natural talent would save him from anything like that.

@zaluk I agree that Vader could be either as skilled or more skilled than Dooku. At least in a blade-to-blade sense. I agree with others that Dooku is far more agile than he.

i will give it to luke.