Luke Skywalker/Saba Sabtyne vs Darth Maul/Ventress read OP

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okayalright_44

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#1  Edited By okayalright_44
Luke is  1 year after Return of the Jedi-Luke Skywalker Shadows of Mindor(novel)
Luke is 1 year after Return of the Jedi-Luke Skywalker Shadows of Mindor(novel)

vs

No Caption Provided

Battle Stipulations

  • Luke is Shadows of Mindor/1 year after ROTJ stage. TCW Maul. Saba and Asajj are at their best.
  • No amps. Standard levels.
  • Standard Morals. In character but willing to kill
  • Location: Genosis Battle Arena.
  • Distance: 25 yards apart.
  • All New Canon and Legends EU feats allowed.
  • No BFR. Battle to Death, Incapp or K.O.
  • Both teams have full Synergy
  • Equipment: Maul gets Darksaber. Luke 1 green lightsaber. Saba gets 2 sabers. Ventress gets 2 sabers.
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deactivated-5e8a1f5fafc4e

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Hmm nice thread. Not sure who wins but as far as I know it probably goes Luke > Maul > Ventress > Saba. I know it's not as simple as that, just my initial thoughts.

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okayalright_44

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@i_like_swords: How far do you see Luke over Maul only 6 months after ROTJ? And thanks for the compliment....*bro fist*

I think it's a pretty good fight too.

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LamLam

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Anyone got feats for Luke early-post ROTJ?

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Penderor

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#6  Edited By Penderor

I think that team 2 wins a slight majority. I am not really sure if this Luke is better than Maul.

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Jacthripper

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I'd say team 1, as Luke is better than Maul, considering he beat peak Vader, who barely defeated Maul. Saba fights with a lot of raw power, something that Form 2 practitioners have always struggled with.

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Luke is better than Maul, considering he beat peak Vader, who barely defeated Maul.

What are you talking about? RotJ Vader never fought Maul. Not to mention Luke only defeated Vader via being amped, and ANH Vader essentially lost to Maul but backstabbed him as a means of winning.

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Jacthripper

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@i_like_swords: RoTJ Luke>RoTJ Vader>ANH Vader~Maul

I never knew Luke was "amped" he definitely didn't seem like it.

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@jacthripper: RotJ Luke is RotJ Vader's equal in terms of physicality and saber combat, more or less, given he mirrored his father perfectly during their fight. Vader has him utterly outclassed in the Force, though.

As for Maul, I see him as about as fast and skilled as both Vader and Luke, in their ballpark of strength but not quite matching them, and then more durable (than Luke), better martial artist ect.

Maul is succinctly superior to ANH Vader. During the duel between Vader and the clone, the latter had the advantage throughout, pretty comfortably. He was taunting him at every point and being complacent with his successes. It was only when Vader actually made any ground that the clone began taking the fight seriously - and the fight was then ended in a single page. In terms of speed and dueling skill Maul is comfortably ahead of ANH Vader.

Luke was definitely amped when he defeated Vader during RotJ.

'Give yourself to the dark side, Luke,' he entreated. 'It is the only way you can save your friends. Yes, your thoughts betray you, son. Your feelings for them are strong, especially for-'

Vader stopped. He sensed something.

Luke withdrew further into shadow. He tried to hide, but there was no way to hide what was in his mind - Leia was in pain. Her agony cried to him now, and his spirit cried with her. He tried to shut it out, to shut it up, but the cry was loud, and he couldn't stifle it, couldn't leave it alone, had to cradle it openly, to give it solace.

Vader's consciousness invaded that private place.

'No!' screamed Luke.

Vader was incredulous. 'Sister? Sister!' he bellowed. 'Your feelings have now betrayed her, too ... Twins!' he roared triumphantly. 'Obi-Wan was wise to hide her, but now his failure is complete.' His smile was clear to Luke, through the mask, through the shadows, through all the realms of Darkness. 'If you will not turn to the Dark Side, perhaps she will.'

This, then, was Luke's breaking point. For Leia was everyone's last unflagging hope. If Vader turned his twisted, misguided cravings on her ...'Never!' he screamed. His lightsaber flew off Vader's belt into his own hand, igniting as it came to him.

He rushed to his father with a frenzy he'd never known. Nor had Vader. The gladiators battled fiercely, sparks flying from the clash of their radiant weapons, but it was soon evident that the advantage was all Luke's. And he was pressing it. They locked swords, body to body. When Luke pushed Vader back to break the clinch, the Dark Lord hit his head on an over-hanging beam in the cramped space. He stumbled backward even farther, out of the low-hanging area. Luke pursued him relentlessly.

Blow upon blow, Luke forced Vader to retreat - back, onto the bridge that crossed the vast, seemingly bottomless shaft to the power core. Each stroke of Luke's saber pummeled Vader, like accusations, like screams, like shards of hate.

The Dark Lord was driven to his knees. He raised his blade to block yet another onslaught - and Luke slashed Vader's right hand off at the wrist.

-Return of the Jedi

Clear usage of Force Rage right there. Never before has he shown himself capable of pummelling Darth Vader to his knees through sheer strength. It was a special circumstance.

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Jacthripper

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@i_like_swords: Ah, I always just presumed Luke was pissed

Thanks for the info

As to the battle, I'm undecided

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Erkan12

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#12  Edited By Erkan12

Team 2, TCW Darth Maul is the MVP here.

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LamLam

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@lamlam said:

Anyone got feats for Luke early-post ROTJ?

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Erkan12

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#14  Edited By Erkan12

RotJ Luke is faster than Vader. (Speed has never been a proficient ability of Vader though.) And RotJ Luke should be equally skilled and physically strong as Vader, or very close to him.

Before Vader could gather his thoughts much further, though, Luke attacked again - much more aggressively. He advanced in a flurry of lunges, each met with a loud crack of Vader's phosphorescent saber. The Dark Lord retreated a step at every slash, swiveling once to bring his cutting beam up viciously - but Luke batted it away, pushing Vader back yet again. The Lord of the Sith momentarily lost his footing on the stairs and tumbled to his knees. Luke stood above him, at the top of the staircase, heady with his own power. It was in his hands, now, he knew it was: he could take Vader. Take his blade, take his life. Take his place at the Emperor's side. Yes, even that. Luke didn't bury the thought, this time; he gloried in it. He engorged himself with its juices, felt its power tingle his cheeks. It made him feverish, this thought, with lust so overpowering as to totally obliterate all other considerations. He had the power; the choice was his. And then another thought emerged, slowly compulsive as an ardent lover: he could destroy the Emperor, too. Destroy them both, and rule the galaxy. Avenge and conquer. It was a profound moment for Luke. Dizzying. Yet he did not swoon. Nor did he recoil. He took one step forward. For the first time, the thought entered Vader's consciousness that his son might best him. He was astounded by the strength Luke had acquired since their last duel, in the Cloud City - not to mention the boy's timing, which was honed to a thought's-breadth. This was an unexpected circumstance. Unexpected and unwelcome. Vader felt humiliation crawling in on the tail of his first reaction, which was surprise, and his second, which was fear. And then the edge of the humiliation curled up, to reveal bald anger. And now he wanted revenge.

-

He rushed to his father with a frenzy he'd never known. Nor had Vader. The gladiators battled fiercely, sparks flying from the clash of their radiant weapons, but it was soon evident that the advantage was all Luke's. And he was pressing it. They locked swords, body to body. When Luke pushed

Vader back to break the clinch, the Dark Lord hit his head on an overhangingbeam in the cramped space. He stumbled backward even farther, out of the low-hanging area. Luke pursued him relentlessly. Blow upon blow, Luke forced Vader to retreat - back, onto the bridge that crossed the vast, seemingly bottomless shaft to the power core. Each

stroke of Luke's saber pummeled Vader, like accusations, like screams, like shards of hate. The Dark Lord was driven to his knees. He raised his blade to block yet another onslaught - and Luke slashed Vader's right hand off at the wrist.

--- Taken from ; RotJ Novelization

As Skywalker threw himself at the towering black figure, Vader raised his lightsaber to defend himself. But he wasn't fast enough. Skywalker's blade cut through the Sith Lord's prosthetic right arm, and it fell to the floor, still clutching the red-bladed lightsaber.

--- Taken from ; Rise and Fall of Darth Vader

No Caption Provided

This is a battle of equals. The young Jedi has grown in the interm. And if there is any true advantage, it seems to have shifted to him.

--- RotJ Comic Book

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Darth_Necray

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#15  Edited By Darth_Necray

I see a case being made for both. I believe Luke takes a slim majority. Saba vs Asajj I couldn't tell you.

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TheVivas

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Don't know much about Luke at that time period(or I just forgot). If someone would be willing to provide feats, that'd be cool, but for now I'll go Team 2 in a slight majority.

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okayalright_44

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ShootingNova

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Luke > Maul > Saba=Ventress, probably. Team 1.

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Erkan12

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#19  Edited By Erkan12

Why Luke is ahead of TCW Darth Maul ? Because he defeated Vader ? That's not really a good reason considering the fact that clone of TPM Maul did the same.

No Caption Provided

--- Star Wars Tales 09 : Resurrection

Well, ANH Vader may have grown more powerful in RotJ (still I don't think it was significant, since Vader doesn't have any superior feats in that era) but then TCW Darth Maul has grown more powerful (significantly) as well. I don't see any reason to put Luke ahead of Maul here. Plus Maul has force advantage.

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ShootingNova

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@erkan12: This is Luke a full year after RotJ. He is stronger, faster, and more skilful than Maul is. Power is questionable, but the best case that can be made for Maul is for power since Maul was definitely more powerful than RotJ Luke at least, whereas he wasn't stronger, faster or more skilful than Luke's RotJ incarnation, and the rate at which Luke improves is astonishing.

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@shootingnova: Don't you kind of hate how Vader and Luke's power and skill levels are mostly judged off of their "potential" and how much they "would have improved" after a certain amount of time? I'd rather they just had feats to consolidate the improvement...

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Jedisupermaster

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Probably team 1.

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Team one in a good fight.

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Eisenfauste

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Team 1 luke is MVP

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ShootingNova

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@i_like_swords: To an extent, yes. They usually do have showings to prove and support their astonishing growth rates, or at least, Luke does. I would like some Post-TESB feats for Vader.

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@shootingnova: This is Luke a full year after RotJ. He is stronger, faster, and more skilful than Maul is.

Proof, bro?

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ShootingNova

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@lamlam: He was already stronger (being of equivalent strength to Vader), equally fast and more or at least equally skilful than Maul by RotJ, and if we use powerscaling to judge his improvement in a year (from ESB to RotJ is a good example), then yes, he is better. This is, at least, a logical argument.

However, with respects to only feats, then a case could be made for otherwise. In the year following RotJ, Luke has more feats added to his name. For instance, he fought evenly with Vader (and having improved since, would beat him), beaten Lumiya, and fought evenly with Flint whilst disinterested. He has kicked others in less than a flicker of the eye and deflected blaster fire from 128 troops.

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@shootingnova: I was thinking more if Luke had any feats just after ROTJ that supported your comment.

But I'm interested in how you judge his strength as being equivalent to Vader's?

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ShootingNova

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@lamlam: I thought you already knew about a quote which claimed they had equivalent strength? That, and Luke was able to overpower Vader in a brief saberlock at one point.

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#31  Edited By ShootingNova

@lamlam: It's implied, at least.

Although Darth Vader and Luke Skywalker are equally strong in the Force, their duels are more than just about physical strength.

Source: Beware the Sith

Luke has never evinced the sheer telekinetic potency of Darth Vader, but his reserves are approximately equal. That might persuade me to believe that Dooku and Maul might not just ragdoll him with sheer power, and that he could be more powerful than Obi-Wan. That, and I now view his telekinetic feat as above Obi-Wan's. Obi-Wan's best showing is probably manipulating Durge's approximately eight meter long ship, whereas the AT-ST Luke supported is about 8.6 meters in length, and that was not too long after ESB, as I recall.

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LamLam

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@shootingnova: Not sure what to make of that quote, to be honest. But thanks anyway.

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ShootingNova

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@lamlam: The fact that physical strength was explicitly brought up, to me, indicates that it was talking about strength.

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LamLam

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@shootingnova: I guess they just worded the first part of the sentence horribly, since just being strong in the Force in itself has nothing to do with physical strength.

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ShootingNova

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@lamlam: I believe they meant Force-enhanced strength or Force-based strength.

Still, it's a reasonable claim, so you would probably agree with it.

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dondave

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Team 1

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Night4345

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Team 1.

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Mije_101

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Yeah, team 1.