Luke Skywalker (ROTJ) vs Qui-Gon Jinn (TPM)

Luke Skywalker

"You've failed your highness. I am a Jedi, like my father before me."

VS

Qui-Gon Jinn

"Feel, don't think, trust your instincts."

Morals ON

Luke at the end of ROTJ

Qui-Gon during TPM

ROUND 1

Physical Combat, no sabers, no Force augmentation

ROUND 2

Force Combat, no sabers, no physical combat

ROUND 3

Saber Combat, no physical combat, Force augmentation ok.

FINAL ROUND

All out.

Location for all rounds: 500 Republic Apartment (not Padme's specific appartment)

And ... GO!

1. Hmm could go either way, might favor jinn

2. Luke

3. Luke

Nice thread.

1. Luke in an extremely difficult battle.

2. Luke 10/10.

3. Luke 10/10.

4. Luke 10/10.

Luke is more akin to Obi-Wan's equal. Qui-Gon would give him trouble every time, but Luke is just better in all categories. Faster, stronger, more skilled, more powerful.

Interesting.

ROUND 1

I was going to say Qui-Gon as I think he'd deal more damage than Luke could, though Luke was perhaps more speedy than Qui-Gon, still though I don't know of too many feats Luke has in regards to speed and strength by the time of ROTJ, aside form what he exhibits in his fight with Vader (ie flipping away form Vader's blade onto the catwalk).

ROUND 2

I would say Luke. He exhibited more of a command over the Force than Qui-Gon did. I always saw Qui-Gon as a rudimentary user of combative Force abilities, always focusing more on the Living Force.

ROUND 3

This one is the closet one. Luke really still had no formal training up until this point the the lesson he would learn against Vader in ESB would be invaluable to his humility and craft. Though Qui-Gon was passed his prime he still was able to keep up with a much younger Darth Maul for several minutes before tiring and eventually losing. In his prime, Qui-Gon was on the level of battle master Anoon Bondara who admitted Qui-Gon was his superior.

I don't see Luke's speed matching Maul's in TPM, but again I'm just judging by the movie/novel of ROTJ. Luke is largely self taught in his abilities with a lightsaber. He got very basic Shii-Choo type training from Obi-Wan in ANH and I don't think Yoda taught him anything in regards to a lightsaber on Dagobah.

I'd have to give slight edge to Qui-Gon on lightsaber combat.

ALL OUT

I still say Luke wins but not by such a large margin. More like 7/10 over Qui-Gon. I think his command of Force would serve him well even though Qui-Gon was pretty accomplished with a lightsaber.

Considering Luke was an equal with Vader, including in periods he was holding back, it's more than safe to say he is the superior duelist as compared to Qui-Gon, since Vader is at least as skilled as Maul, and where Luke equals Vader, Qui-Gon is still inferior to Maul. Luke's potential is particularly outstanding as he was able to mirror Vader's Form V hybrid style just by experiencing it.

Qui-Gon outsparring Anoon Bondara is good and all, but considering how Bondara has virtually no feats at all, it isn't as impressive as Luke's showings. I could just as easily cite Luke deflecting blows from Celeste Morne before having any training save for his ANH experiences with Kenobi.

Luke all rounds

Jinn all rounds

@masterkungfu: Why do you think Jinn for all?

@silentbat: TPM Jinn was more skilled, patient, wise and experienced than ROTJ Luke. Yes Luke had a great natural ability at being a Jedi but he still lacked the experience and discipline needed. His duel with Vader showed how easily it was for him to let his emotions get to him. It was only after the events of ROTJ did Luke truly shine.

I definitely didn't factor in Qui-Gon's experience. That's actually a defining character trait of his. He fights so well against younger and more agile opponents because of his experience. He is familiar with almost all the forms as he fought multiple times with Anoon (presumably). He did rather well against Maul's Juyo assault until he tired. I would assume Xanatos similarly used Juyo as well.

So only canon versions of both...lol

I have no idea why people continually reference Luke's "inexperience", which was utterly irrelevant against Vader where he was able to duel Vader as an equal even whilst fighting defensively, and the only reason Luke was entering a state of rage was entirely due to Vader hitting a soft spot which Qui-Gon has no idea about, and otherwise, Luke was clearly disciplined enough to not attempt to kill Vader, which he has been described as him possessing the wisdom and clarity of a Jedi Knight.

When Luke confronted Darth Vader again, he possessed the clarity and wisdom of a Jedi Knight. He had no set out to conquer but rather to redeem the good in his father.

Source: Lightsabers: A Guide to the Weapons of the Force

And he was an equal for Vader/gained advantages at some points during their duel:

By the time of the Battle of Endor, Luke Skywalker has studied some lightsaber technique from Obi-Wan's journal and and greatly advanced his abilities. Without a Master, such advancement would have been impossible for most, but Skywalker's unparalleled aptitude makes him a match for Darth Vader in their fateful duel onboard the second Death Star. Both are limited, Vader by his cybernetic body parts and Skywalker by his relative lack of experience dueling. But Skywalker's skill at blaster deflection is highly refined, and his lightsaber technique so superb that he is able to duel the Dark Lord on even footing - and finally able to defeat a man who is a powerful living product of the ancient Jedi sword traditions from time immemorial. Such an achievement with little formal training is a testament to Skywalker's innate abilities and instinctive skill. Tremendously strong with the Force, Skywalker never crosses the line into Sith hatefulness and ceases his attack immediately upon rendering his foe helpless - an even more impressive demonstration of self-mastery than his lightsaber skills.

Source: Insider #62: Fightsaber

In his final assault on Vader, Luke Skywalker mirrors Vader's own Form V technique and responds with a furious demonstration of Form V's raw strength. An observing Jedi Master would be astonished at such instantaneous learning in battle.

Source: Insider #62: Fightsaber

The fight this time was far more balanced. Vader discovered that Luke was his match, and, once again, the Sith Lord found his thoughts straying to an alliance between them against the Emperor.

Luke had indeed grown powerful since Bespin, and he was an equal match for his father.

Source: The Official Star Wars Fact File #111

On the Death Star, Luke and Darth Vader were engaged in a duel that was even more vicious than their battle on Cloud City. Luke had grown stronger since their last encounter, and his skill with his lightsaber had improved greatly. As they swung at each other in the Emperor's throne room, Luke sensed the advantage had shifted to him.

Source: Return of the Jedi Junior Novelization

Is Luke not as experienced as Qui-Gon? Certainly. Would it play a factor in this fight? Unlikely. Luke has received experience against multiple duelists including Darth Vader, whom is just as experienced as Qui-Gon, and stronger, faster, more skilled and more powerful, and in the latter fight against Vader, inexperience never hindered Luke directly or noticeably.

Luke is more skilled than Qui-Gon by a noticeable degree, and that is what matters most. More than that, Luke is also telekinetically more powerful, and telepathically more capable in multiple ways (Qui-Gon is a powerful telepathic but has mostly only shown overt displays of it, not the myriad of telepathic usages RotJ Luke has displayed) - and he has displayed proficiency in multiple powers Qui-Gon has never shown, such as Heal, Hibernation Trance, Curato Salva, Instinctive Astrogation and Deflection, and he has displayed greater ability with some powers Qui-Gon has shown, such as Beast Control. Now, Qui-Gon does know powers such as Breath Control and Force Listening which Luke has never shown until after RotJ, so the edge is for him there, but then, Luke still knows more powers than Qui-Gon, and this is irrelevant in combat anyway. More importantly, Luke is faster, stronger, more powerful and more skilled. He would win every time as a result of that.

Qui-Gon's experience is good, but hardly a winning or game-changing factor. He had more experience than Maul, but he still lost. Luke is just as skilled and fast as Maul, and stronger and more powerful as well to compensate for Maul's greater tactical and martial skills displayed mid-combat. The fact that Luke's astonishingly great Force potential could allow him to perform greater than he actually should would also be an edge in favor of Luke, which should cancel out Jinn's experience. RotJ Luke should be able to claim at least as many wins over Maul as Maul would over him, and TPM Maul would beat Qui-Gon every single time.