Luke (ROTJ) vs Anakin (AOTC)

geonosian arena.

win by KO or death.

film versions

Luke.

Film versions only, Anakin, of course.

Luke 10/10

Anakin 10/10

Anakin stomps.

Anakin

Anakin definitely wins a film version fight, but EU Luke is meant to be a beast.

Anakin if it's films

Even film versions it's Luke. We shouldn't limit our perceptions to production values of each film.

I agree.

Bump.

Shouldn’t Luke Stomp. In RoTJ Luke was Clearly a Match for Vader and outmatched him.

No way Padawan Anakin is as powerful as Vader.

Why bump? The versions are specified. AOTC Anakin has better dueling feats than ROTJ Luke.

Anakin

Yep

Last time I checked AOTC Anakin doesn't have a feat better than beating a far superior version of himself. Even if you use film versions only, there is still the rouge one feat for Vader, and AOTC Anakin's only dueling feat is getting punked by Dooku anyways.

@alextheboss: Y'know Vader was holding back the entire fight right? he didn't want to kill Luke at all. If he was serious about fighting, then Luke would have died the moment their blades first clashed.

Pablo already confirmed Anakin is stronger

Anakin Wins.

Probably Anakin for film versions

If he did it was ROTS not AOTC Anakin.

If it's ROTS Anaknin, then yes. I don't see how AOTC Anakin wins, even if it's movie only.

Vader was holding back, but so was Luke, at least until his rage boost at the end. I do agree Vader is more powerful and more skilled, or at least he should be, but Luke was around his level at that point. Luke did better against Vader than Anakin did against Dooku. There is no reason to think Anakin wins a majority.

Luke has no lightsaber skill, Vader wasn't going all out on him since it's his son.

This is especially true in Disney canon, people tend to forget Vader literally killed Palpatine BECAUSE his son was getting killed.

You don't just suddenly switch teams like that, if he was perfectly fine with killing Luke he would have let palpatine kill him.

@alextheboss: article is from before RotS came out. So he’s referring to AotC

Only film feats? No tie-ins or anything external of the films?

Luke did much better against Vader all things/context considered than Anakin did against Dooku. I see no basis for Anakin being the superior duelist at this point.

Anakin is always better than Luke. Luke is a pussy while Anny is a god

I always thought that Vader in the Original Trilogy never fought Luke at his best, but I guess I could be wrong on that? And imo I don't think Rogue Wan gave Vader that much of an amp.

If that statement is from that long ago it is no longer relevant in the first place, but he was likely working on ROTS when he said that, and even if he wasn't he might have meant Anakin in his prime. Either way, his word isn't gospel. Even Lucas' isn't anymore, but if it was a Lucas statement it would hold a lot more weight. Going strictly by the movies, AOTC Anakin doesn't have much to say he can beat ROTJ Luke.

@_logos_: Vader was conflicted and he wasn't trying to kill his son, but Luke didn't want to fight or kill his father either, so neither were going all out until the end, where Luke won. Even holding back Vader is superior to AOTC Anakin anyways.

@galatea_:

Luke has no lightsaber skill,

It was good enough to beat Vader, whether Vader was holding back or not is irrelevant as he would toy with AOTC Anakin.

And it's not just about skill, as we see with Rey vs Kylo.

Vader wasn't going all out on him since it's his son.

And Luke wasn't going all out on Vader (until the end) because hew as his father.

This is especially true in Disney canon, people tend to forget Vader literally killed Palpatine BECAUSE his son was getting killed.

In Disney canon Vader is much more powerful than Dooku, which makes it even worse. At least with the old canon Vader and Dooku were around the same level. Now Vader is being portrayed as closer to Palpatine.

You don't just suddenly switch teams like that, if he was perfectly fine with killing Luke he would have let palpatine kill him.

Again, neither were willing to kill the other. And not wanting to kill Luke doesn't mean he should have let Luke kick him down a stair case.

Anakin. It's not close.

If we go by scaling Luke wins.

If we go by feats Anakin wins.

@alextheboss: Pablo said made the statement in 2003, a time that RotS was being filmed, so yeah it would apply to RotS Anakin.

Reasons?

Anakin really doesn't have better feats. Luke beat Vader, casually used force choke on the gamorrean guards, and had the upper hand over Boba Fett.

Anakin can easily replicate that. By feats I mostly mean lightsaber combat, but it's more like the originals just having outdated lightsaber fights.

Luke defeating Vader has so many contextual parameters around it, that using its merits as a feat in his favor borders on illegitimate for me.

Force choking isn't impressive, at all, especially not nameless grunts. Furthermore, I can't imagine it would be hard for Anakin to do.

Boba Fett is almost entirely featless. Even then, Luke having the upper hand over him is debatable, as is the content of their fight. Boba raises a gun, Luke cuts it. Boba ties Luke up, Luke cuts it. Boba raises his wrist blaster to a Luke who has his back entirely turned, slowly fires twice (and misses each time), accidentally gets hit in the back by a blinded Han, then gets eaten by a hentai monster.

In my estimate, Luke really hasn't accomplished anything that Anakin hasn't done or couldn't do (often better).

If we’re just taking what’s shown on film, then Anakin. Vader is much weaker than Dooku just going by films, as well.

@reactor:

Luke defeating Vader has so many contextual parameters around it, that using its merits as a feat in his favor borders on illegitimate for me.

It's pretty clear Luke was supposed to be relative to Vader.

Force choking isn't impressive, at all, especially not nameless grunts. Furthermore, I can't imagine it would be hard for Anakin to do.

It's more like how he did it. He just casually chokes them at the same time without even really focusing on them.

Boba Fett is almost entirely featless. Even then, Luke having the upper hand over him is debatable, as is the content of their fight. Boba raises a gun, Luke cuts it. Boba ties Luke up, Luke cuts it. Boba raises his wrist blaster to a Luke who has his back entirely turned, slowly fires twice (and misses each time), accidentally gets hit in the back by a blinded Han, then gets eaten by a hentai monster.

True, but Luke didn't really seem to think Boba was much of a problem, and Boba should be Jango level.

In my estimate, Luke really hasn't accomplished anything that Anakin hasn't done or couldn't do (often better).

Luke beat a stronger version of Anakin, contextual parameters or not, while Anakin's only dueling feat at that point was getting schooled by Dooku. Plus Luke is way more level headed, so even if they were around the same level, Luke would probably win due to that reason alone.

@alextheboss: There’s numerous OOU sources naming Luke as an equal to Vader as well.

@idrisiangraecus: I know, but the OP says movie versions. If every source is allowed, Luke definitely wins, and I think he wins with just film feats as well.

ROTJ Luke could possibly defeat ROTS Anakin

Anakin

Films only? Luke holding the edge over Vader is better than being toyed with by Dooku.

Prequel characters still stomp the rest when it comes to dueling in films

people need to stop downplaying Vader. Luke was never equal with Vader, the Passage of the fight directly states that Luke was using darker emotions against Vader in their duel.

Hindered Vader>=Darker Emotion Luke>>Base Luke ROTJ.

every part of the fight mentions that Luke was channeling the hate and anger to match Vader...not once did Luke ever held his own against Vader without his Anger playing a part in it. if you have anything the states otherwise post the whole passage.

Next, how does Luke being able to hold up against Vader in Light saber duel prove that they were equals and peers in the force? this Flawed way of Thinking on this site is starting to become a Joke. Mace Bested Sidious in a lightsaber Duel, so by that same logic wouldn't he be more powerful than Both Sidious and Yoda as well? not once has anyone said Mace force powers is greater than Sidious and Yoda if that is the case.

For me it can go either way...Anakin clearly has far better skill...but Luke is stated to be an exponentially Gifted Light saber duelist. I clock that up to Obi-wans training being far too slow which according to GL it was.

@SilentBat: 10 years of quality training vs not even half that time of much lower quality training+ higher natural potential and more experience in combat

Yea logically AOTC Annie should poop all over ROTJ Luke

Luke wins comfortably. AOTC Anakin isn't THAT good.

For someone who wasn't very "Good" he sure was very good. passages say his battle skills was unmatched and unparalleled

I have zero respect for film Luke's feats after reading the ROTJ novelization. Luke knew Vader was holding back and flat out acknowledged that Vader would curbstomp him if he wanted. This makes Luke's showings extremely dubious and, all things equal, Anakin had better training, more training, and more potential in the Force.

• It isn't from my perspective. And it certainly isn't in the explicit sense.
• Force choking has never been depicted as an intensive power, anymore than Force pulling, pushing, or other mundane telekinetic feats. It's the nature of the act itself, causing direct harm, that made it stand out, particularly if a Jedi used it. For that matter, Luke does intently look at both guards as he chokes them; I would agree it was casual, but it did appear that he focused on them. Either way, it's moot.
• We don't know what Luke thought of Boba Fett, and frankly, Boba has not done anything to suggest he was remotely as good as his father in combat. Neither of these cases change the facts about Boba's performance, or Luke's retaliation in turn.
• Contextual parameters mean everything when you make a claim of one person beating another. If a boxer went into the ring, but was tied up or blindfolded or had the crap beaten out of him right before the match, you could understand how people might not find victory over that boxer to have any real merit to it.
• Most Star Wars movies had only one duel per film, the only real exceptions to this are AotC (had 2-3ish) and RotS (had 5). So his, or anyone else's, limited performances in duels in understandable. Dooku defeated Anakin and Obi-Wan soundly, but considering that Dooku didn't hold back, imo Anakin did fairly well. Dooku was a former Jedi Councilor, and Anakin was a Padawan, yet lasted a little over a minute or so before he got pretty brutally maimed.
  • By contrast, Luke had never been in a duel with an opponent actually trying to hurt him (with lethal intent) in the films. Not once, even in the sequels. Vader never intended to harm Luke in ESB, and even made sure the carbon freezing wouldn't cause damage once he put Luke in there. Luke vs Vader had always been, especially in RotJ, a battle of conversion, not martial strength. Not only did Vader actively hold back against Luke in ESB and RotJ, but his intention was never to harm him in the first place, it was to coerce him into using the Dark Side and falling. Palpatine even takes the role of the evil cheerleader, egging Luke on to get more angry as him and Vader cross blades. These are the main reasons I can never take Luke's "victory" over Vader seriously.
• Luke is certainly more level-headed than Anakin, and I do that think is a point in his favor. However, I don't think that would be a deciding factor at all, and if nothing else, would just help Luke survive longer against him, not defeat him.

@mygod000: He was very good compared to other apprentices. But ROTJ Luke is knight level at least and would win.