Luke Cage (CS) vs Cole McGrath (godofnick)

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#1  Edited By ComicStooge
Represented by ComicStooge
Represented by ComicStooge

VS

Represented by godofnick
Represented by godofnick

Location:

No Caption Provided

Rules:

- Morals on

- Cole has his Evil Karma feats, fully upgraded (Pre-Beast)

- Cole's feats from Infamous 1+2, comic series and other canon tie-ins all apply

- Power is still on in the city

- Cage is current

- Win via KO, kill or incap

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BlackLightningstorm

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Hmm I would say luke would take this one. Cole has all of his awesome powers and stuff. but morals on if he tries to get too close to luke.. luke would easily smash his head open there by killing him. as for the binds and stuff cole can put him in... still.

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Hmm I would say luke would take this one. Cole has all of his awesome powers and stuff. but morals on if he tries to get too close to luke.. luke would easily smash his head open there by killing him. as for the binds and stuff cole can put him in... still.

Haha, this is a CAV bro. They're conducted between two people.

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Tag for votes!

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#6  Edited By Full123

Tag me for votes, I want to see nick defending Cole.

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cooljammy18

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I definitely want to vote in this CAV. I want to see Cole get some decent spotlight here.

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Tag me. I don't want to miss nick debating for MacGrath.

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#10 juiceboks  Moderator
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#12  Edited By ComicStooge

Round 1:

No Caption Provided

Time to introduce the Hero for Hire, Luke Cage! I'll just set out some basics, currently.

Durability:

Cage's greatest asset here will be his durability.

He's shown himself quite resistant to electricity in the past:

He's even resisted the electrical discharge of Constrictor for a time, though he wasn't sure how long he could hold out:

No Caption Provided

By his own accord, Constrictor has hurt the Hulk:

No Caption Provided

For the record, this was classic Cage, prior to his upgrade in the 1990's that made him more durable. He hasn't been tested against electricity since then, but it's likely he'd be even more resistant to it. I'll post more feats when I see more of what Cole can do (I'm running off basic knowledge here) but he should be able to stand up to his electric blasts just fine.

Strength:

I'm confident Cage has the edge in terms of lifting strength. Allow me to demonstrate:

He's lifted a semitrailer attached to a truck

No Caption Provided

Toppled the Living Mammoth:

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Physically overpowered Venom:

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And physically prevented a plane from taking off:

Speed:

Cage isn't especially fast, but he does have some alright speed feats:

Dodged a blast from Dr Doom:

No Caption Provided

Caught a bullet:

No Caption Provided

So he should at the very least be able to tag McGrath.

Agility:

While not known for it, his agility wasn't too bad:

^ Read left to right

Even recently, he's shown a bit of that ability to get around, when he escaped Cape Killers during Civil War:

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

This is just some of the basics, but here ya go @godofnick

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#13  Edited By Pope052
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Sweet

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#16  Edited By godofnick

@comicstooge: Alright before I get started, I would just like to point out one thing. I have never gotten a hold of the inFAMOUS comics, so this debate will only be game Cole feats unless I happen to run into the comics, which I find unlikely. Also, could you edit the OP? It's spelled MacGrath not McGrath, common mistake though, no worries :)

Powers:

Cole MacGrath was granted extraordinary superpowers in the form of electrokinesis, but not limited to just that. He also has napalm abilities, the ability to slightly alter the gravity, drain the life from his foes, and even partially slow down time. Since this is Evil MacGrath, he won't be in possession of his ice abilities, which he possesses in his Good karma counterpart.

I'll keep it short and sweet with powers just for the sake of this post.

Cole's able to manipulate electricity into quite a few different forms.

Lightning Bolts

Grenades

Ionic Abilities

Rockets

Shields

Pure Electricity formed into blades

Shockwaves

Ability to glide, and quite a bit more, which I will continue to show you.

Loading Video...

This shows Cole's abilities in inFAMOUS 2, since I thought showing an individual clip for every single one of his powers is unnecessary, I hope this will suffice for you. I understand Cage's durability to electricity is great, but from the feats you've shown it only shows him resisting electricity pulsing through his body, so there's a possibility attacks like grenades or rockets can hurt him, since they lay with impact as well. For instance, Cole can not be hurt by electricity, yet if the player shoots one of Cole's rocket/grenades too close to Cole, he will be damaged.

Loading Video...

This is Precision, an ability where Cole can slow down time very slightly, and better focus himself in hitting the opponent. Giving Cole an advantage of being able to hit Cage if he needs it, but their speed both seems to be mediocre at best so they shouldn't have trouble hitting each other.

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Apologies for the horrible quality, but this is the Polarity Wall. An electric generated shield Cole uses to defend himself from incoming fire. It's capable of soaking most type of gunfire (I don't believe it could soak RPG blasts, but that's due to the explosion) and even Kessler's electricity streams. He can also attack while using this shield.

I'll elaborate more on his powers as the debate continues, hopefully I've covered enough so far. I also don't know if there's any statements that explain how much volts Cage can handle, but I believe Cole stated one of his electric streams held "20,000 volts" behind it.

Strength:

Cole's not very strong in comparison to Luke, I mean take away his powers and he's just a regular bike courier. However with his powers unlocked, I believe he had peak human strength and possibly higher. Cage is without a doubt much stronger than Cole, but lifting strength is irrelevant in terms of a fight. Only real strength feat that I can remember is this:

Loading Video...

Cole is no martial artist, he's only used hand to hand combat in the first inFAMOUS game, and in Street Fighter X Tekken, but in both games he used pretty standard attacks. He has an ability in the game PlayStation Allstars known as the "Giga Punch", where he engulfs his fist in flame, and punches his opponent with enough force to knock them to their knees. I won't rely on feats from Allstars, I just thought you wouldn't mind me using this attack, since it is not present in his games.

Loading Video...

He does the punch right at the beginning of the video. However hand to hand will probably not come into play for this fight, Cole loves fighting with range and that's just what he'll do.

Agility:

The Electric Man is quite agile himself, being a highly skilled parkourist and all. He scaled Alden's Tower which was a huge tower made of garbage and debris, not to mention he jumped off it too. Yeah, Cole doesn't take fall damage by the way.

Loading Video...

Cole learned to parkour even before he had his powers, and he only got better. Seriously, you can scale pretty well everything in inFAMOUS games.

Durability:

MacGrath's got pretty good durability himself, now Luke blows him out of the water no doubt, but, still worth mentioning what he's got. First off, even before his dormant powers were unlocked, Zeke stated Cole got run over by a freight truck and recovered in just a couple of days.

Loading Video...

Cole handled being squeezed by the Beast pretty well, however he fell unconscious after he had used too much power (by the way, this was beginning of inFAMOUS 2 Cole) Now people argue that Cole was only being held by the Beast in this scene, which is false for two reasons:

Reason 1. If you do not hit the button prompts to attack while John (The Beast) is squeezing you, you will see blood start to trickle around the screen, a sign throughout the game for the player to know that Cole is taking damage.

Reason 2. At the end of the game, John states he was trying to kill Cole in their first fight. I mean if I was a giant trying to kill somebody, I would be squeezing them, not holding them so they have a better shot at hurting me.

Like I stated he doesn't take fall damage, and he can regenerate from bullet wounds (not severe wounds like losing limbs or ect)

Loading Video...

Here Cole gets hit in the head by a military chopper while he is on a speeding car, and he isn't even phased by this.

I think this should be enough for my opener, I'll elaborate more on the powers while our debate continues, don't worry about that. I didn't bother to mention anything about speed because quite frankly Cole isn't that fast (he couldn't catch up to a speeding car while he was on foot), not to mention he can slow down time to his advantage, however I don't see Cage being too quick for MacGrath.

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cooljammy18

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I hate to butt in on this, but Cole does have a slight strength feat. After the Beast blows up the area where you and Zeke were at after the nuke attack failed, Cole repeatedly lifted up large, metallic structures to help Zeke move through. If I'm not allowed to add a little information to this CAV, then I apologized.

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#18  Edited By godofnick

@cooljammy18: Hey no worries, I think it'd be better if you told me things through PM but it's fine. I do recall Cole lifting up those structures, however I didn't mention it for two reasons. Lifting strength is next to useless in a fight, (i.e my friend can lift heavier things than I can, however I can punch much harder than he could ever dream to) and also, Luke's lifting strength is so much more superior to Cole there's no point even trying to compare. Thank you though!

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#19  Edited By cooljammy18

@godofnick said:

@cooljammy18: Hey no worries, I think it'd be better if you told me things through PM but it's fine. I do recall Cole lifting up those structures, however I didn't mention it for two reasons. Lifting strength is next to useless in a fight, (i.e my friend can lift heavier things than I can, however I can punch much harder than he could ever dream to) and also, Luke's lifting strength is so much more superior to Cole there's no point even trying to compare. Thank you though!

Yeah, I figured that's why you didn't mentioned it and I agree with your reasons. It would just let people who don't know a lot about Cole know that he does at least possess slightly above peak human strength, but like you said it means nothing against Luke.

I'll make sure to do that in the future. :)

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#21  Edited By godofnick
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@comicstooge: Not trying to rush you or anything, just a friendly reminder :)

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@comicstooge: Not trying to rush you or anything, just a friendly reminder :)

:) I'll get on this soon

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#24  Edited By ComicStooge

Round 2:

No Caption Provided

It's on, son!

Durability:

Alright, you laid down some sick knowledge of Cole, especially with some of his blasts, which I'm now aware possess blunt force/impactful damage too. Lucky for Cage, his resistance to that is second to none, in the street level world.

Here, he takes a blast from the Living Lazer, an Iron Man villian:

No Caption Provided

He jumps out of the SHIELD helicarrier through an energy shield:

Jumped out of Avenger's Tower and it doesn't even phase him:

No Caption Provided

Took a blast from Iron Patriot and was unarmed. Despite the fact that Norman's armor wasn't as powrful as Iron Man's, his blasts still messed up Spiderman, who could tank repeated hits from the 80 ton Rhino:

No Caption Provided

Counter of agility:

Lucas can counter Cole's superior agility with AOE attacks, such as his thunder clap:

No Caption Provided

It's worth noting he was:

1) Using it on a powerless woman

2) Was right next to his baby

So he can likely produce a more powerful clap should he choose to. This clap can keep Cole off his game and hit him from a distance.

Alternatively, he can just throw cars, buses and parts of buildings at him.

He's lifted a hydraulic press type trapped ceiling/wall off himself:

No Caption Provided
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It wouldn't be a stretch for him to toss a bus or section of rubble.

Skill:

I'd argue Luke might have a skill advantage, for what it's worth:

Cage has been trained by Iron Fist and knows a fancy move or two:

No Caption Provided

But more than that, he can fight dirty:

No Caption Provided

So if it gets into fisty cuffs, Cage will have an edge, even without his strength and durability advantage

But, in my next posts, I'll highlight how Cage can overcome McGrath's durability and I'll display Cage's underrated intellect.

@godofnick you're move!

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#26  Edited By godofnick

@comicstooge: Just a few questions before I get started. Do the Living Lazer's attacks have any feats? Also could you show the scans where Spiderman gets "messed up" by Iron Patriot's blasts?

Alright, now that that is out of the way.

Durability:

I'm just throwing this out here to go alongside your "no fall damage" feats as Cole has never taken any himself:

Loading Video...
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Those were both mandatory to do to finish the story.

Miscellaneous:

Luke's thunder clap would just put Cole at his advantage point seeing as range is his most effective way of taking part in combat. I know well enough that Cage is stronger and a better fighter than MacGrath and I'm not saying Cole will go up and start brawling, just covering all the points y'know? I personally think the only way Cole will do any damage up close will be with his Gigawatt Blades and that's just because they can blow up a car with one hit. Throwing cars and debris at Cole won't work at all. Cole could more than less likely react to it (he's reacted to a chopper's rockets)

Loading Video...

However Cole would not rely on dodging it all, he has attacks that he could deflect them or dodge all together. Electromagnetic Shockwave and Lightning Hook respectively. With lightning hook he could tag the debris/cars and pull it down to the ground, getting out of harm's way. Personally I believe Cole would just stick to the shockwave however, as it is able to push cars and rockets and such.

Loading Video...

Keep watching to see his other shockwaves and what they can do and such.

Trump Card:

Didn't want to pull it this early in the debate but eh, may as well give you something to counter/try to.

Cole has this one ability which I would consider one of his most powerful, if not his most powerful one. It's called the Ionic Drain, and all Cole has to do is activate it and all the foes that surround him get their life force drained from their body, and boost's Cole's energy level/health. Not sure if Cage has a feat against life draining, I sure hope not lol.

Loading Video...

Power:

I'm just going to show some feats for the power Cole can dish out.

Here, Cole one-shots the rotor of a military chopper and forces it to crash, oh and he was falling unconscious as he did this. Also a great aiming feat.

Loading Video...
Loading Video...

At 4:30 and 4:50 of this video.

At 4:30 Cole takes a chunk out of the Beast's head with his regular blasts, and at 4:50 his Lightning Storm blows off half of the Beast's head. The only thing that could wipe out the Beast was a nuclear missile, and that only destroyed his body for a few minutes, he regenerated shortly afterwards. Also this is beginning of game Cole, he gets more powerful by the end of the game.

Okay, so I hope that's good for now. I'm enjoying this a lot man!

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#29  Edited By ComicStooge

@godofnick said:

@comicstooge: Just a few questions before I get started. Do the Living Lazer's attacks have any feats? Also could you show the scans where Spiderman gets "messed up" by Iron Patriot's blasts?

Round 3:

No Caption Provided

Sure:

Living Lazer can wound Iron Man:

No Caption Provided

In regards to Spiderman, here you go. I think there was more to the fight than this, but this is the gist of it. Iron Patriot's blasts aren't as strong as Tony's, but they're still powerful:

He can also blast people's heads off:

No Caption Provided

And he could hurt Venom:

No Caption Provided

So neither of their powers are anything to scoff at.

Durability:

Those are impressive durability feats on McGrath's part, but Cage has better, as you're about to see...

He can tank a beating from the Thing, sending him through buildings:

Tanks a pumpkin bomb exploding in his face:

No Caption Provided

Pumpkin bombs can knock over and stun Spiderman, send Wonder Man flying, disintegrate armed SHIELD agents and blow up penthouses:

Hiriom sent him flying across the city and he was unharmed:

No Caption Provided

Striking power:

True, Cage might have trouble at a distance. However, when he does close the gap, he can and will one-shot.

His strikes put down Iron Clad, a guy who can go toe-to-toe with the Hulk:

And his punches against Proxima Midnight created craters around them where they were fighting:

And he could one shot Rhino:

No Caption Provided

As soon as Luke closes the gap, the fight's won for him.

How does he close the gap?

He could always super-jump at him.

No Caption Provided

Cole's power:

Cole might have some impressive power feats, but Iron Man himself has tanked multiple nukes at once and walked it off. The Living Lazer hurt him, yet Cage stood up to his more powerful blasts.

Likewise, Iron Clad could trade punches with the nuke-proof Hulk, yet Cage took a punch to the face from him.

He should be able to handle McGrath's energy beams quite well.

In regards to life force draining, can Cole one-shot someone with it who isn't fodder? How do bosses handle his life force draining ability?

Stamina:

Cole's biggest disadvantage here is that he can't go on forever. He'll have to stop and recharge at some point or another. And he can't recharge and move at once, right? That'll give Cage the chance he needs to nail Cole and one-shot him.

Strategy:

For the record, Cage's intellect when it comes to strategy is underrated:

He's not a bad detective, for one. It's obvious he can put two and two and together.

And he's smart enough to lay a trap for Mr X, while powerless:

His strategy is decent. I've never seen any particularly good feats of strategy from Cole, so Luke may come up with a plan to get around McGrath's range.

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AMAZING!

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#32  Edited By godofnick

@comicstooge: Just two question before I get started. Was the armor that Iron Man tanked the nukes in the same armor that he was in when Living Lazer harmed him? If not it's pointless to compare the two feats. Also is there any proof the Living Lazer attack that Luke tanked was one of his most powerful attacks?

You say Luke will one-shot Cole if he closes the gap, which I agree with, however he will not close the gap to Cole.

Range:

Okay, so Cole MacGrath's biggest strength is his range, and that is what will pull him to victory. As I have shown you before, he has shockwave attacks and other lightning manipulation tricks to keep Cage on his toes, and away from Cole. I'll show you some more.

Loading Video...

So around 2:00 of this video shows one of Cole's napalm shockwaves. This one dazes his foes opposed to pushing them away. He could daze Luke, then bombard him with grenades, shockwaves, lightning streams, ect. At 2:55 of the same video he summons little monsters to help him in combat. Now, obviously that's just fodder to Luke and I'm not trying to say they are going to damage him, but Cole could use them as a distraction to buy himself enough time to run off to his advantage point once again.

Loading Video...

the Ionic Vortex is a move that will help Cole greatly in this battle. Arguably his best move in terms of keeping it at a zoning fight, it can lift up cars, people, destroy balconies, and suck up everything in between. This will definitely keep Luke away from Cole, and possibly do some damage.

Loading Video...

At 0:45 Cole slides across the ground with electricity to traverse at quicker speeds than by foot. He could use that to escape if Luke gets to close. Also at 1:25 MacGrath uses his firebird strike, an attack that is also a faster way to get around. He could use it for an attack as well, but since he'll be focusing on range like usual, he won't.

Loading Video...

0:45 of this video shows Cole encasing his opponent in tar. He could do that to Luke, if he were to get close and bombard him with shockwaves and blasts, ionic drain, or just get some more space.

Loading Video...

This is the Kinetic Pulse. Cole can lift up cars and debris and hurl them at Cage to keep some distance if need be, and if worse comes to worse, he could lift Luke himself up and chuck him away. Trust me, Cage will have his plate full if he tries to approach MacGrath.

Ionic Drain and recharging:


In regards to your points. Ionic Drain doesn't do anything to bosses, but this is simply because of a gameplay mechanic. What would be the point if you could one-shot all bosses you encounter? It would be lame and easy, and the game developers want to give the player a challenge, so they restricted it. Cole's ionic drain works on humans, conduits and mutants, respectfully. It drains the bio-electric energy from the body, so I don't see why this won't kill Luke, unless of course he has resistance feats to such a thing. Also when you said Cole needs to recharge, that is true. However after this post, I'm sure you can see that MacGrath can just use an attack to get Luke off him for long enough to nab some more juice.

Your turn @comicstooge

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@comicstooge: that about Living Monolith is prety interedting because everibody say that classic Luke can only lift 10-15 tons but Living Monolith weights around 70 tons... that is impressive

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@godofnick: I'll respond to this when I can, sorry I didn't see you tagged!

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#37  Edited By godofnick

@elderskaar: I won this debate because the other guy got too scared to reply, that’s what happened.

Cole would mop Luke, end of story.

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#38  Edited By cooljammy18

@godofnick: Lol I completely forgot about this CaV. I still agree Cole would win. Luke doesn't have an answer for Ionic Drain, or being headshotted by a precision bolt, or like half of his other abilities.