Luffy & Zoro vs. Meliodas & Ban

@mkgod: Lol, I seriously doubt the speed because it isn't displayed in the show. I don't see how Zoro can "blitz" anyone or be "massively hypersonic" when he's far slower than everyone else... Forgetting these fan mad calcs and the lightning thing from kalifa since it's various factors to prove they weren't faster than lightning. If these characters were massively hypersonic they would be able to go from point a to b in a second. Luffy getting to Doffy would have taken 1-2 seconds for a "massively hypersonic" person but it didn't, it took him a few chapters. Then people just stack up feats on characters that appear later as if one piece was dragon ball z, it 's kind of dumb. The only characters I can believe these feats actually exist for is enel & kizaru, now if Oda were a little more competent and gave a few quantifiable speed feats then there wouldn't be a problem.

@longman: Idk princess, do you feel as though it's a spite thread ? If so, flag and move on. I don't feel like dealing with your nonsense today :)

@valorz: what....?

Mountain level Pacafista?

Island level Luffy?

Mach 25 is MHS?

You have your facts all messed up. Badly.

1. Franky tanking that explosion was a gag feat. Claiming otherwise puts him above Zoro in terms of durability feats. And that's pre-timeskip Franky. Don't be ridiculous.

2. That 150 km distance is over half of the island's width. Even if you say the island is 200km and the ship is 50km (1/4 the size), Luffy only destroyed about half of it through a massive combo attack. So he destroyed around 25km of wood with several seconds of continuous attacking and extreme difficulty. Impressive, but not impressive enough.

3. Hypersonic ends at mach 100, not mach 25. MHS is mach 100 to mach 999, and MHS+ starts at mach 1000.

4. To be able to jump from place to place so precisely, Galan would need the reactions to know where he's going and to dodge obstacles. He crossed almost 200 miles before Mel could hit the ground, and came back right behind Merlin almost as quickly. Hulk can't do that. His jumps are too precise.

Even if you don't want to debat for either side at the moment, I just wanted to point out some misconceptions.

But...the crap that comes out of your mouth is troll worthy enough to make Klandicar blush...

It doesn't take much common sense to figure out...If you feel Mel by the 20th chapter can replicate any feat Luffy and Zoro have and you're using current versions in this fight then it's spite. Duh.

@akronawol17:

1. Franky tanking that explosion was a gag feat. Claiming otherwise puts him above Zoro in terms of durability feats. And that's pre-timeskip Franky. Don't be ridiculous.

How can it be a gag feat when the feat directly effects the plot as the explosion revealed Vegapunk's secret underground lab where Franky spent the 2 year training time. The point of Franky having more blunt force durability than Zoro is reasonable since its pre time skip (Franky gave Luffy a run for his money at Water 7) especially when you consider how Oda writes Pacifista like cyborgs as wall type characters with durability as their absolute strong suit

2. That 150 km distance is over half of the island's width. Even if you say the island is 200km and the ship is 50km (1/4 the size), Luffy only destroyed about half of it through a massive combo attack. So he destroyed around 25km of wood with several seconds of continuous attacking and extreme difficulty. Impressive, but not impressive enough.

What? 150 km being half of the Island is arguable but for this one lets low ball and say its half also 150x2 makes 300 not 200. That would make it Noah roughly 75km where you are missing another point that Sea Kings have stated he would have destroyed the Noah if he continued plus it wasn't a massive combo Elephant Gatling Gun is a know technique of Luffy I think I have already addressed the situation he was in before though the so called ''wood'' Noah was made from has endured being 10000 meters underwater for centuries so calling it merely ''wood'' for lowballing purposes seems irrelevant to me

3. Hypersonic ends at mach 100, not mach 25. MHS is mach 100 to mach 999, and MHS+ starts at mach 1000.

Dunno where you are getting this but I never saw Mach 25+ addressed as hypersonic but either as ultrasonic or re-entry speeds. Massively hypersonic is not even a scientifically established term. If you are talking about what fan calcs or stuff like that use than sorry I don't know much about that

4. To be able to jump from place to place so precisely, Galan would need the reactions to know where he's going and to dodge obstacles. He crossed almost 200 miles before Mel could hit the ground, and came back right behind Merlin almost as quickly. Hulk can't do that. His jumps are too precise.

Where did you get that 200 miles from? IIRC Merlin specifically stated his range as several miles after a few panels. Anyway essentially do you think the fact that Galan was considerably faster than Merlin makes him Mach 1000??

@leo-343:

1. Where do you keep coming from ?

2. False, reaction speed doesn't equal movement speed + the meteorite didn't enter and land at mach 25 since meteorites are slowed greatly as they descend due to the thermosphere and mesosphere and they take anywhere from a few seconds to minutes to land.

3. I've seen the thread and all that's there is reaction feats that aren't 100 accurate. Hordy's water bullets have no stated speed, prove to me how the pacifista's beams were hypersonic.

4. If I were to make a thread "Zoro vs. Killua" most likely you'd jump in it and say "Zoro blitzes" and that's 100% false since he has no movement speed feats comparable to killua's. I think of Zoro's "speed" thd same way I think of netero's since he's trained his arms to move at insane speed but that's not making up for his ability to move the rest of his body while fighting. So Doffy having an attack at a hypersonic speed means that his body if physically capable of matching that speed due to scaling ? False. Also, when these characters are in combat they aren't always moving relatively fast. + You can't stack speed when these characters (unlike the gorgon sisters) are much more adept in their precog. That's equivalent to someone knowing a gun will be fired in 3 seconds in a linear angle, aimed towards their face and they move away the moment beford it's fired. That doesn't make them supersonic, that's knowing to react before the attack begins.

4. Last time I'm discussing this, Not only did Nami do her entire process in front of Kalifa, she announced her attack (giving kalifa ample time to defend), the manga shows nami stating her attack and in the next panel you see a jolt of lightning. Who's to say the amount of time it takes Kalifa to spread her bubbles couldn't have been instantaneous. Even Kalifa herself told Nami that she could "guard" against her attack, meaning she could whenever yet later on, when Nami didn't announce her attack like she did the first time she successfully hit Kalifa.

--Even if one was to say Kalifa was able to move as fast as Nami's lightning which she clearly couldn't, the stacking for the rest of CP9 being faster than her is false. It is true that Kalifa was in fact the weakest member in CP9 as displayed by Fukuro, HOWEVER, this technique only measured their physical strength & martial arts (as later stated by Jabra) meaning then directly measuring speed from physical & combat ability would be very inconsistent since it wasn't stated or displayed that Kalifa was tne slowest member of CP9.

-Last point on this, nami's lightning isn't directly consistent with the process of now actual lightning is formed, though she used science, simply having a ball of cold air, heat, and electricity isn't close enough to give it the same properties as actual lightning, hell even if you wanted to, lightning speed vary all the time but the one consistent is that lightning moves faster depending on how far away the ground is. If you were to consider the distance from the cumulonimbus cloud and the earth and compare it to the size of the room where nami's miniature, artificially produced cloud struck kalifa, there would be a HUGE difference in speed. In fact, since everyone else goes off of fanbased calcs I'll make my own right now

●The room they fought in seemed to be about 3x the height of Nami, nami is 5'6" so the room is about 16'6" (Rounds up to 17).

•Lets give Kalifa nami's height (even though she's taller)

● Cloud to ground lightning distance = 60,000 ft @ an average of 224,000 mph.

•60,000/17 = 3,529.4x further away from the actual nimbua cloud, now every foot for cloud to ground lightning equals 3.733 mph. Now in nami & Kalifa's case, the room was about 17 feet, 17×3.733 mph = 63.461 which isn't even Mach 1......

I can see zoro doing better than luffy in this fight but due to Ban and his snatch a dragged out fight will only give it to team Meliodafuuu and baaaaan lol

@unspokenkiz: Thank you for coming here to vote and not nitpick & argue about the thread.

@valorz: 1. It's still done in a comical way and wasn't even necessary to show Vegapunk's lab. And again, it was Pre-Skip Franky, and he'd be > Zoro by feats. It's just a little absurd to think Franky was really that durable, especially when Rob Lucci could've killed him easily. Do you really think Rob had mountain level attacks?

2. I said it was over half, so I just added 50 more to it. Even if it was that big it still required one continuous spam of EGG. The fact he could've destroyed all of it is impressive, but it was taking him several seconds and continuous strikes to do it. That isn't truly DC in my eyes, because DC is judged by one attack, not thousands being spammed. Mel simply has better DC, and can do it in one go.

3. I use to hate calcs and such too, but they're extremely useful in helping solidify feats.

4. Merlin teleported Ban 186 miles in one go in the Edinburgh arc, so her teleport range is much larger then that. Someone once told me the statement of several miles was a mistranslation. I got over mach 1000 through a calc. Galan crossed at least 186 miles before Meliodas could even hit the ground, and that came out as something around mach 13000 iirc.

I meant mach 1300, not 13000 lol

1. It's still done in a comical way and wasn't even necessary to show Vegapunk's lab. And again, it was Pre-Skip Franky, and he'd be > Zoro by feats. It's just a little absurd to think Franky was really that durable, especially when Rob Lucci could've killed him easily. Do you really think Rob had mountain level attacks?

First off it was absolutely necessary for Franky to reach Vegapunk's lab considering his post skip upgrades are based on Vegapunk's research especially Pacifista blueprints for instance Ceaser mentions his laser being the exact same with Vegapunk's model used on Pacifstas, second the gag point was Franky idiotically pressing the self destruct button out of curiosity as he mistook it for a pirate flag, so the explosion is not even the main point of the gag. Now the fact it was pre time skip actually makes it more reasonable as I referred to Franky's fight with Luffy that the gap between monster trio and the others weren't as insane as it is now also Zoro's durability was no slouch either given how he was getting up again and again after taking hits from a powerhouse like Oars. Also mountain level is not an unapproachable level for One Piece characters even by pre time skip standards when you have Luffy even before the start of East Blue Saga showing fairly visible DC from a mountain view. Given enough time and hit chances I don't see why Lucci can't topple a mountain

2. I said it was over half, so I just added 50 more to it. Even if it was that big it still required one continuous spam of EGG. The fact he could've destroyed all of it is impressive, but it was taking him several seconds and continuous strikes to do it. That isn't truly DC in my eyes, because DC is judged by one attack, not thousands being spammed. Mel simply has better DC, and can do it in one go.

You say it required a continuous spam of EGG when spamming is the main idea behind the attack and in the end that punch spam is actually packed under single name. Yes Mel did his feat with extreme ease which is the only stand point he has over Luffy, in sheer size coverage Luffy heavily dominates

3. I use to hate calcs and such too, but they're extremely useful in helping solidify feats.

I don't have a problem with calcs as long as they are within the range of common sense and don't involve pixel scaling though most of the used calcs are based on these facts, on topic I would prefer using scientific terms over calc terms

4. Merlin teleported Ban 186 miles in one go in the Edinburgh arc, so her teleport range is much larger then that. Someone once told me the statement of several miles was a mistranslation. I got over mach 1000 through a calc. Galan crossed at least 186 miles before Meliodas could even hit the ground, and that came out as something around mach 13000 iirc.

Well if Merlin had such range why woudl she mention it as several miles? Mistranslation sounds fair enough

Meliodas and Ban, no matter how I look at it they aren't stronger than G4 and in rage Asura mode Zoro.

Luffy and Zoro moderate diff.

What exactly is wrong with my post?

Those were hills, not mountains.

And you dont know the circumstances behind the feat.He could have done it with multiple hits.

Lol.The larger crater compensates by being order of magnitudes wider.

Just because a weaker attack had 30,000 feet depth doesn't mean every attack produces that depth.Stop using troll logic and fallacious arguments.

-Has to overpower Doflamingo's God thread

-Has to overpower Spiders Web

-Doflamingo soaks with his durability

-Not even a direct hit on the ground

-Calcer takes free falling as time-frame.Real time-frame would result in MUCH higher numbers

<"Horrible low end" my arse

LMAO

And you are the one who brought calculations into this.I don't roll with calcs.With or without them, Luffy> Meliodas.He simply has the better feats.G4 Luffy outright stomps Meliodas.

@itachi_totsukablitz: Your post is one block of text with what looks like a failed attempt at quoting. It's really annoying to read. But enough of that, I'll get straight to telling you why your wrong.

1. "Hills" he says. Lol.

http://img4.mangasee.co/series/NanatsuNoTaizai/0130-010.png

http://img4.mangasee.co/series/NanatsuNoTaizai/0130-011.png

You can clearly see a mountain there. If you want I can even post some scans comparing the mountain to the pit after the attack. Oh, and that is clearly one attack, not multiple. You don't read NNT, do you?

2. Troll logic? Man, that's a weak cop out. Occam's Razor states that we must go with the theory with the least assumptions. You assuming it's shallower then a far weaker and casual attack is a much bigger assumption then me assuming it's at least as deep.

3. Resorting to baseless claims I see. Luffy has no speed feats that put him even close to Prime Meliodas, and that's a fact. And nlike your claim, I can post scans and evidence to back this statement up. I believe I've already explained the size need calc. Would you like scans with that?

We can keep this up as long as you'd like, but the fact of the matter is, Meliodas at his best is an island buster and quad digit mach. Luffy at his best is small island level with the high end of a calc, and triple digit mach. Meliodas can also regenerate with demon powers, and has thousands of years of fighting experience over Luffy. I love the Strawhat pirate, but he stands no chance against current Mel as things stand. He probably could've beaten him pre-power restoration, but not now.

Here are some scans to prove those weren't just hills. Meliodas' attack is larger then multiple mountains, and several times their height as well.

http://www.mangamint.com/nanatsu-no-taizai-39?page=3

http://www.mangamint.com/nanatsu-no-taizai-124?page=1

Mel and Ban can win this but Gear Fourth is what is making me think. Ban can easily get one shotted by zoro or luffy, King would have been a better choice, has more durability via his powers and can deal much more overall damage. Speaking of which i got to stop being lazy and work on King next on my respect thread.

Prime mel takes this after no diff onto galan.

Meliodas solos

Prime Mel is being overrated IMO. He did take down a half power (I'm guessing) Galan in 6 seconds which is damn impressive however Luffy and Zoro have shown ridiculous speed feats over the years and I believe they take this with extreme diff

After reading the series, why is Luffy better than Mel in damage output? His best feat is Island, and Meliodas amped up on his demon power is greater.

Or

Strength that destroyed a mountain of a castle, and an uber force field that can tank 10 town busting dragons without breaking, all by simply arm wrestling. This is part of Ban's feat of strength as well.

Gallery

Add to all these strength feats, Ban can drain Luffy or Zoro of their own strength and add it to his own pretty quickly. He drain both Diane and King at the same time before rather quickly it seems, and did drain all of base Mel insanely fast.

Gallery

In the end, Ban is just as fast as Luffy, will not give him a chance to gear up, drain Luffy of strengths and speed while adding it to himself, and has base strength enough to match gears 1-3.

Zoro is more screwed as Haki is pretty much magic equivalent to Mana, and Mel can Full Counter any special attack from this.

Team 2

so cadence discovered the sins

i see a lot of naruto vs sins threads coming lol

Yeah he fell in love with the series. But he's hyping them up just a tiny bit.

@sirfizzwhizz said:

After reading the series, why is Luffy better than Mel in damage output? His best feat is Island, and Meliodas amped up on his demon power is greater.

The context behind this feat isn't really known yet, untill Meliodas shows his ability to do this more often, this isn't something we should claim that Meliodas can just do.(even do he has at least two or three showcases of doing stuff like this.) Plus you don't really need to show this feat, Meliodas has enough feats that put him over Luffy.

As of when this thread was made, the Straw Hats win both rounds.

@deathhero61: You feel Ban is no match for gear 2nd or above Luffy, but feel Mel is above Luffy? that makes no sense. mel is not operating on several tiers above Ban.

Their fight says otherwise, and Mel's performance against other characters in comparison to ban says otherwise. Meliodas solo'd Gilthunder, Vivian and Hendrickson by himself while distracted near the end of the fight.

Hmmm... I see. I will have to start reading the chapters past 100.

Meliodas gets amped literally tenfold.

Uuuuggg. Just like that crap in Naruto. I really did not want that.

Heck you can even go back to his previous fights. His fight against Gilthunder 1v1 and his fight against him, hendy and vivian or particularly how he handled the the giant golem you will be seeing in the next ten chapters. Compare everything Meliodas has done to everything Ban has done and Meliodas will come on top even while sealed. The dude cut a small mountain in half with a twig, Ban has strength feats, but they really don't compare to Mel's.

It was kind of a given considering Meliodas' origin story. Where he's at currently right now, is where he is SUPPOSED to be. Everyone else right now is somewhat the same except King.

I agree, Ban thing is not dying, and stealing power. When fighting Ban like first season of the Anime, it was all about Ban surviving with ease to get the drains off.

Welcome to the wonderful world of shounen.

Meh, I can live with it like YYH, but I like my Anime/Manga like Slayers or Hellsing. No one just gets unsensibly stronger, the story revolves around whats there already.

Team 2

Yeah Mel solos right now but anyway.

@highaccuser said:

not current on NNT however I would like to point out that people thinking OP is slow is crazy, the past like 6 chapters have taken place within 5 seconds no?

Team Taiza

Taizai handily.

Team OP isn't slow.It's just that team NnT is faster.

As for the match current Mel can solo the OP team with low difficulty.

@shadowshock: People were saying OP doesn't have speed I sadi otherwise and reminded the past few chapters have taken place within 5 seconds

Not current on NNT sounds like powercreep from the last time I read

5 seconds?Where is that stated?

Where did you leave off in NnT?Because we've had characters crossing hundreds of miles in split seconds since chapter 120.And the manga is currently at chapter 224

@shadowshock: Galan jumping to Camelot didn't take place in a split second where'd you get that from?

And they're all in the same speed league, but Mel is too powerful at the moment and Ban can speed and strength steal so team SDS stomps

I'm speaking about this feat.The NnT team is faster,but not fast enough to blitz.

@shadowshock: I thought there was no way you were talking about that one; Merlin herself said several miles while you said hundreds. And he just jumped into the air

Several miles out of her teleportation radius,not just several miles.