Lucifer vs Marvel Universe

I'd say no. The only reason he has power in the DCU is because it's his Universe. He'd have top create a separate/pocket universe/reality to be supreme and that's if the LT let's him.

Yes, but he wouldn't really care about "regaining" his powers. He doesn't have the ambition to become powerful. 

" If he's at full power, then the LT has a considerable challenge. If Michel gets past the LT? "

" @Push said:

" If he's at full power, then the LT has a considerable challenge. If Michel gets past the LT? "

The only reason Lucifer has power in the DCU is because he's part of it's origin. Lucifer has no place in the MU and therefore has no powers in the MU. If we're excluding that fact than I'd agree with you. "

S'all good. Now if this were a fight that took place in a neutral universe the story would change entirely, but from what I understand it's not neutral - it's the MU.

" @Push said:

" If he's at full power, then the LT has a considerable challenge. If Michel gets past the LT? "

The only reason Lucifer has power in the DCU is because he's part of it's origin and he is essential to the DCU existence. Lucifer has no place in the MU and therefore has no powers in the MU. If we're excluding that fact than I'd agree with you. "

" @mattek said:

" @Push said:

" If he's at full power, then the LT has a considerable challenge. If Michel gets past the LT? "

The only reason Lucifer has power in the DCU is because he's part of it's origin and he is essential to the DCU existence. Lucifer has no place in the MU and therefore has no powers in the MU. If we're excluding that fact than I'd agree with you. "

No. Lucifer's power is his own. He is not essential to its universe's existence.  "

*smacks forehead* "

Lucifer is a step down from God where God is the DCU as a whole. Lucifer can bend the DCU to his will ONLY because of his relation to God and the DCU. His relation to God IS his power. That relation and connection that Lucifer has to the DCU does not exist to the MU as per the OP settings. If you removed Lucifer from the DCU the balance of the DCU would crumble. Like I said if this were a neutral universe, like most battles take place in, then Lucifer would stomp until he hit the LT.

" Lucifer is a step down from God where God is the DCU as a whole. Lucifer can bend the DCU to his will ONLY because of his relation to God and the DCU. That relation and connection that Lucifer has to the DCU does not exist to the MU as per the OP settings. Like I said if this were a neutral universe like most battles take place it then Lucifer would stomp until he hit the LT. "

" @mattek said:

" Lucifer is a step down from God where God is the DCU as a whole. Lucifer can bend the DCU to his will ONLY because of his relation to God and the DCU. That relation and connection that Lucifer has to the DCU does not exist to the MU as per the OP settings. Like I said if this were a neutral universe like most battles take place it then Lucifer would stomp until he hit the LT. "

God is not the DCU. If he was the respective universe, how could he leave it in the first place? If Lucifer only has power in the DCU, how did he create an entire new universe in the Void outside of creation?  If Lucifer's power comes from his relationship with God, how did he retain his power after God left creation when everything else was falling apart because that connection was broken? He was never essential in any sense of maintaining the DCU's existence, and Yahweh says on-panel that he was never essential in the creation of the universe either.  The OP already made it clear that Lucifer has no powers as the starting condition.  "

God is creation which means he is the DCU. *smh*.   That new universe was still within the DCU as Lucifer, Michael and God all exist outside of regular creation. And God never really left creation as he is creation. You clearly have no idea what I mean and this is going to go no where. "

Marvel wins even if Lucifer wasn't depowered because everyone knows comics defeat satan* :D
 
 
* I believe he is a fictitious, mythological, character just as Zeus, Odin, and Thor are.

" @mattek said: 

God is creation which means he is the DCU. *smh*.   That new universe was still within the DCU as Lucifer, Michael and God all exist outside of regular creation. And God never really left creation as he is creation. You clearly have no idea what I mean and this is going to go no where. "

All I can conclude that you read a different series because almost every character in Lucifer stated that Yahweh left creation. As in "picked up his bags and left". I'd take the literal words of Mike Carey and his characters over yours.  "

" Soooo, he's been depowered? To what level? Totally? "

I actually think as the only true Lucifern in the comic book universe

" @Push said:

" If he's at full power, then the LT has a considerable challenge. If Michel gets past the LT? "

The only reason Lucifer has power in the DCU is because he's part of it's origin and he is essential to the DCU existence. Lucifer has no place in the MU and therefore has no powers in the MU. If we're excluding that fact than I'd agree with you. "

" @Primmaster64: You said "Lucifern" like you're a plant.  Behold, I am the angry thrashing flora of hell!  I am Luci-Fern!!!! Feel my soft branches and worry . . . worry. "

Since Primal Monitor is highest being in DC, Presence is DC's LT.
Michael and Lucifer are responsible for creating DC Multiverse as Phoenix Force is created Marvel Multiverse (not Megaverse, just primal multi). PF is higher then Multi-Eternity and I personally think that Lucifer is in Multi-Abstract level (maybe not M-E, but Multi-Infinity for me).
 
Depowered Lucifer won't get so high, becasue guys like Doom or Thanos will take his experience and become cosmic level again ;)

"Since Primal Monitor is highest being in DC, Presence is DC's LT. Michael and Lucifer are responsible for creating DC Multiverse as Phoenix Force is created Marvel Multiverse (not Megaverse, just primal multi). PF is higher then Multi-Eternity and I personally think that Lucifer is in Multi-Abstract level (maybe not M-E, but Multi-Infinity for me).  Depowered Lucifer won't get so high, becasue guys like Doom or Thanos will take his experience and become cosmic level again ;) "

" @Push said:

" If he's at full power, then the LT has a considerable challenge. If Michel gets past the LT? "

The only reason Lucifer has power in the DCU is because he's part of it's origin and he is essential to the DCU existence. Lucifer has no place in the MU and therefore has no powers in the MU. If we're excluding that fact than I'd agree with you. "

He wont survive as a human

" @mattek said:

" @Push said:

" If he's at full power, then the LT has a considerable challenge. If Michel gets past the LT? "

The only reason Lucifer has power in the DCU is because he's part of it's origin and he is essential to the DCU existence. Lucifer has no place in the MU and therefore has no powers in the MU. If we're excluding that fact than I'd agree with you. "

This "

" @CosmicSpiral said:

" @mattek said:

" Lucifer is a step down from God where God is the DCU as a whole. Lucifer can bend the DCU to his will ONLY because of his relation to God and the DCU. That relation and connection that Lucifer has to the DCU does not exist to the MU as per the OP settings. Like I said if this were a neutral universe like most battles take place it then Lucifer would stomp until he hit the LT. "

God is not the DCU. If he was the respective universe, how could he leave it in the first place? If Lucifer only has power in the DCU, how did he create an entire new universe in the Void outside of creation?  If Lucifer's power comes from his relationship with God, how did he retain his power after God left creation when everything else was falling apart because that connection was broken? He was never essential in any sense of maintaining the DCU's existence, and Yahweh says on-panel that he was never essential in the creation of the universe either.  The OP already made it clear that Lucifer has no powers as the starting condition.  "

God is creation which means he is the DCU. *smh*.   That new universe was still within the DCU as Lucifer, Michael and God all exist outside of regular creation. And God never really left creation as he is creation. You clearly have no idea what I mean and this is going to go no where. Agree to disagree. "

Mad Jim Jaspers + Fury stomps. Matter Manipulation < Reality Manipulation.

@mattek: not true at all. Lucifer can travel through multiverses and retains his full powers. It's even stated that he and Micheal exist outside the multiverse.