Lucifer Mourningstar vs Dr.Who

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XxGin

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Whos a better prep god? Both gets 1 day of prep

Round 1: Who wins with 1 day of prep?

Round 2: Who is a better prep god?

Round 3: Who would achieve more with a day of prep?

Round 4 (This is going to get scary) What would happen if they would team up?

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rpottage

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Round 1: The Doctor
Round 2: The Doctor
Round 3: The Doctor
Round 4: The Doctor would have a powerful companion (who pales in comparison to Donna).

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SSJLozza

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LM

LM

LM

The omniverse would be destroyed.

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Dredeuced

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#4  Edited By Dredeuced

@xxgin said:

Whos a better prep god? Both gets 1 day of prep

Round 1: Who wins with 1 day of prep?

Round 2: Who is a better prep god?

Round 3: Who would achieve more with a day of prep?

Round 4 (This is going to get scary) What would happen if they would team up?

Lucifer all rounds -- the fourth round is inconsequential as The Doctor shouldn't bring anything to the table for someone of Lucifer's magnitude. Guy kills multiple gods while being depowered and mortal with no prep. The Doctor's prepping is great and all but I hardly see him being a multiversal being second only to the creator of all of DC.

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ComicStooge

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@xxgin said:

Whos a better prep god? Both gets 1 day of prep

Round 1: Who wins with 1 day of prep?

Round 2: Who is a better prep god?

Round 3: Who would achieve more with a day of prep?

Round 4 (This is going to get scary) What would happen if they would team up?

Lucifer all rounds -- the fourth round is inconsequential as The Doctor shouldn't bring anything to the table for someone of Lucifer's magnitude. Guy kills multiple gods while being depowered and mortal with no prep. The Doctor's prepping is great and all but I hardly see him being a multiversal being second only to the creator of all of DC.

This.

I see the Dr Who fanboyism is still strong in the site.

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The_Imperator

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Lucifer takes all four. The Doctor is good, but Lucifer is better.

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Kingjohnrocks

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#7  Edited By Kingjohnrocks

Doctor Who has too many fanboys.

Lucifer Morningstar DECIMATES.

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dondave

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Lucifer ftw

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Simon_the_digger

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Morningstar.

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IRS

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Lucifer all rounds.

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cooljammy18

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#11  Edited By cooljammy18

Isn't Lucifer omniscient? He should stomp with a thought in mind.

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JediXMan

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#12  Edited By JediXMan  Moderator

Lucifer.

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rpottage

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#13  Edited By rpottage

@xxgin said:

Whos a better prep god? Both gets 1 day of prep

Round 1: Who wins with 1 day of prep?

Round 2: Who is a better prep god?

Round 3: Who would achieve more with a day of prep?

Round 4 (This is going to get scary) What would happen if they would team up?

Lucifer all rounds -- the fourth round is inconsequential as The Doctor shouldn't bring anything to the table for someone of Lucifer's magnitude. Guy kills multiple gods while being depowered and mortal with no prep. The Doctor's prepping is great and all but I hardly see him being a multiversal being second only to the creator of all of DC.

Actually, and I have argued this before, multiversal beings shouldn't be a problem for a prepped Doctor. The Reality Bomb and the Time Lord's Ascension both are capable of destroying the whole of reality; which would include Lucifer. In addition to that; the Doctor can absorb the Time Vortex and become the Bad Wolf which has complete control over all space-time and can see all that ever was, is, and ever could be. In addition to that the Time Vortex exists everywhere, including in other universes as well as the hub to all realities (Medusa Cascade) making it omniversal. Having Omniversal control over all space-time (to the point where you can create paradoxes and create yourself, as well as completely undo death forever) and Omniversal Omniscience should put him ahead of Lucifer quite easily. And that takes very little prep (just pop open the heart of the Tardis). He doesn't do it because it would make him a vengeful god; but he easily could do it and he has done it in the comics to save people.

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Dredeuced

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Proof that anything Who does is Omniversal? Affecting two realms is not omniversal, or atleast the Who omniverse is not the same scale. Sounds like fan wanking to me. Lucifer has outright tanked a blast that would've destroyed DC's multiverse, then shaped it into his own multiverse.

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Sethlol

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Lucifer..

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The_Imperator

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#16  Edited By The_Imperator

@rpottage said:

Actually, and I have argued this before, multiversal beings shouldn't be a problem for a prepped Doctor. The Reality Bomb and the Time Lord's Ascension both are capable of destroying the whole of reality; which would include Lucifer. In addition to that; the Doctor can absorb the Time Vortex and become the Bad Wolf which has complete control over all space-time and can see all that ever was, is, and ever could be. In addition to that the Time Vortex exists everywhere, including in other universes as well as the hub to all realities (Medusa Cascade) making it omniversal. Having Omniversal control over all space-time (to the point where you can create paradoxes and create yourself, as well as completely undo death forever) and Omniversal Omniscience should put him ahead of Lucifer quite easily. And that takes very little prep (just pop open the heart of the Tardis). He doesn't do it because it would make him a vengeful god; but he easily could do it and he has done it in the comics to save people.

Time Vortex doesn't apply if you are beyond time. In the Whoverse, beyond the Fifth Dimension is ruled over by beings such as the Guardians, who are above the universe destroying Chronovores, etc. While singular Chronovores or Eternals can be destroyed, as a whole nothing in reality can stand up to them. Lucifer is beyond space/time. He has the capacity to manipulate anything coming at him, he is the compliment to Michael's infinite creation. IIRC, Lucifer could step outside of reality. That alone means if he doesn't want the Bad Wolf Entity to harm him, it can't. Other beings in DW, such as the Lampreys and the Memeovore, are acausal. Changes in time, attacking them with time, etc. have no effect on them. Theoretically, enough temporal energy should be able to kill anything, even the Elder Gods and the Guardians, but the sheer amount needed to would be astronomical. The Doctor burned up thousands of universes worth of temporal energy just to "kill" the Lamprey, and even then it had effortlessly eaten an infinite multiverse down to a set size.

The Time Vortex itself is nothing next to the Quantum Archangel, which is all energy in existence wielded by a single being. It was handwaving billions of complete universes into existence, and that was with the thought process and senses and awareness of a human. Heck, the Time Lords could snap the Vortex out of existence if they wanted to (Eye of Harmony), and thus the Daleks could to. The point being, while powerful within 4 dimensions, the Vortex is less useful beyond that except as a glass canon, and even then the sheer amount of energy needed to kill cosmics in DW dwarfs anything any Time Lord or less than 6 dimensional being is going to be able to bring to bear.

So effectively, Lucifer stomps on almost everything. He has infinite manipulation of things, and thus can handwave away any attack that the Doctor could send at him short of the Doctor having the Quantum Archangel powers. (sidenote: not a Lucifer reader or anything, that is just what I have heard/seen on here and other sites

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NeonGameWave

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Lucifer all Rounds.

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New_World_Order

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rolldestroyer

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lucifer stomps all rounds

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LPercepts

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#20  Edited By LPercepts

@the_imperator said:
@rpottage said:

Actually, and I have argued this before, multiversal beings shouldn't be a problem for a prepped Doctor. The Reality Bomb and the Time Lord's Ascension both are capable of destroying the whole of reality; which would include Lucifer. In addition to that; the Doctor can absorb the Time Vortex and become the Bad Wolf which has complete control over all space-time and can see all that ever was, is, and ever could be. In addition to that the Time Vortex exists everywhere, including in other universes as well as the hub to all realities (Medusa Cascade) making it omniversal. Having Omniversal control over all space-time (to the point where you can create paradoxes and create yourself, as well as completely undo death forever) and Omniversal Omniscience should put him ahead of Lucifer quite easily. And that takes very little prep (just pop open the heart of the Tardis). He doesn't do it because it would make him a vengeful god; but he easily could do it and he has done it in the comics to save people.

Time Vortex doesn't apply if you are beyond time. In the Whoverse, beyond the Fifth Dimension is ruled over by beings such as the Guardians, who are above the universe destroying Chronovores, etc. While singular Chronovores or Eternals can be destroyed, as a whole nothing in reality can stand up to them. Lucifer is beyond space/time. He has the capacity to manipulate anything coming at him, he is the compliment to Michael's infinite creation. IIRC, Lucifer could step outside of reality. That alone means if he doesn't want the Bad Wolf Entity to harm him, it can't. Other beings in DW, such as the Lampreys and the Memeovore, are acausal. Changes in time, attacking them with time, etc. have no effect on them. Theoretically, enough temporal energy should be able to kill anything, even the Elder Gods and the Guardians, but the sheer amount needed to would be astronomical. The Doctor burned up thousands of universes worth of temporal energy just to "kill" the Lamprey, and even then it had effortlessly eaten an infinite multiverse down to a set size.

The Time Vortex itself is nothing next to the Quantum Archangel, which is all energy in existence wielded by a single being. It was handwaving billions of complete universes into existence, and that was with the thought process and senses and awareness of a human. Heck, the Time Lords could snap the Vortex out of existence if they wanted to (Eye of Harmony), and thus the Daleks could to. The point being, while powerful within 4 dimensions, the Vortex is less useful beyond that except as a glass canon, and even then the sheer amount of energy needed to kill cosmics in DW dwarfs anything any Time Lord or less than 6 dimensional being is going to be able to bring to bear.

So effectively, Lucifer stomps on almost everything. He has infinite manipulation of things, and thus can handwave away any attack that the Doctor could send at him short of the Doctor having the Quantum Archangel powers. (sidenote: not a Lucifer reader or anything, that is just what I have heard/seen on here and other sites

Interesting. How would Lucifer do against stuff like the Grace or the Glory then? Based on these threads (https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/the-grace-vs-lucifer-morningstar.323315/) (https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/lucifer-morningstar-in-doctor-who.331751/) it seems like the Grace walks all over Lucifer. The Glory is also above the Grace, and we know that Kroton, the controller of the Glory is a friend/companion of the Doctor's and would likely come to his aid. So it can be said that the Doctor does exert some degree of control or influence over the Glory, assuming it can be used against Lucifer in a battle like this, since you brought up the Quantum Archangel.

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deactivated-621c40d36c53f

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@lpercepts: Lucifer is canonically above things with far more Multiversal feats than any of those guys. And is getting his power from an entity that is always creating Multiverses every moment with its Dream. So Lucifer is not affected by anything they can do.

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LPercepts

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@etriel: On the basis of the Spacebattles links, your comments don't seem applicable. Especially in the case of something like the Glory, which "canonically" has similar claims of "infinite multiversality" (or omniversality).

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deactivated-621c40d36c53f

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@lpercepts said:

@etriel: On the basis of the Spacebattles links, your comments don't seem applicable. Especially in the case of something like the Glory, which "canonically" has similar claims of "infinite multiversality" (or omniversality).

Yes, but a lower degree, and Lucifer is scales to way more potencies of Multiversal beings than Glory does. Based on the means of Multiverse-debating on this forum in general I mean.

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@etriel: I wouldn't put too much stake on the methods of this forum, personally. To say Lucifer is above things with "far more multiversal feats" doesn't mean much to me if the implication is a quantity vs. quality thing. After all, the Glory is canonically known to encompass all of real life and every fiction to then forward the claim of it being "omniversal". An argument can easily be forwarded that the Doctor is unaffected by Lucifer simply through his influence over the Glory.

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deactivated-621c40d36c53f

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@lpercepts:

Lucifer has more Quality and more Quantity. So there.

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#27  Edited By LPercepts

@rpottage said:
@dredeuced said:
@xxgin said:

Whos a better prep god? Both gets 1 day of prep

Round 1: Who wins with 1 day of prep?

Round 2: Who is a better prep god?

Round 3: Who would achieve more with a day of prep?

Round 4 (This is going to get scary) What would happen if they would team up?

Lucifer all rounds -- the fourth round is inconsequential as The Doctor shouldn't bring anything to the table for someone of Lucifer's magnitude. Guy kills multiple gods while being depowered and mortal with no prep. The Doctor's prepping is great and all but I hardly see him being a multiversal being second only to the creator of all of DC.

Actually, and I have argued this before, multiversal beings shouldn't be a problem for a prepped Doctor. The Reality Bomb and the Time Lord's Ascension both are capable of destroying the whole of reality; which would include Lucifer. In addition to that; the Doctor can absorb the Time Vortex and become the Bad Wolf which has complete control over all space-time and can see all that ever was, is, and ever could be. In addition to that the Time Vortex exists everywhere, including in other universes as well as the hub to all realities (Medusa Cascade) making it omniversal. Having Omniversal control over all space-time (to the point where you can create paradoxes and create yourself, as well as completely undo death forever) and Omniversal Omniscience should put him ahead of Lucifer quite easily. And that takes very little prep (just pop open the heart of the Tardis). He doesn't do it because it would make him a vengeful god; but he easily could do it and he has done it in the comics to save people.

I may be into DW, but I don't think that's what "omniversal" means. Pretty sure "omniversal" is the totality of everything (basically all of creation), not merely the fact that something exists in all universes, since there are things in the Whoniverse that also exist outside of reality and thus, beyond any material universe, such as the Doctor himself (and really any Time Lord). The Glory is the loci for essentially all of creation and everything there is, so it can be said to be "omniversal". The Time Vortex is a shallow construct in comparison to the Glory, and heck the Time Lords themselves can remove it through stuff like the Eye of Harmony if they want.

For greater clarification, the Time Vortex is a small part of the omniverse. It also spans all of the mainstream Whoniverse. The Glory is the loci/nexus of the omniverse and controls an infinite number of multiverses. The entire Whoniverse is an inconsequentially tiny part of the omniverse that the Glory holds dominion over.

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LPercepts

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#28  Edited By LPercepts

@etriel said:

@lpercepts:

Lucifer has more Quality and more Quantity. So there.

That statement has no functional meaning. Quality is YMMV, Quantity is a bean counter's measure. So there.

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#29  Edited By LPercepts

All in all, it probably depends on what you permit the Doctor to use in the battle, but then again, that is a statement arguable to any battle the Doctor is involved in. Stuff like the Quantum Archangel, the Six-Fold God, the Glory, and the Grace seem able to hold their own against Lucifer (or even surpass him) and the Doctor has some degree of access/control/influence over them. Of course, this is a very small handful of things/beings from the Whoniverse omniverse, but Lucifer is high tier after all.